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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 10:13:22 GMT -5
There's a report that the hold up is that the Celtics want Saric on top of the number 3 this year and the Lakers 2018 pick.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 10:49:50 GMT -5
Steven A Smith says Sixers are moving up to grab Jackson, not Fultz. I'm so confused, that doesn't make sense. Could we really trade to 3 and still get Fultz?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 11:11:25 GMT -5
Steven A Smith says Sixers are moving up to grab Jackson, not Fultz. I'm so confused, that doesn't make sense. Could we really trade to 3 and still get Fultz? Not a chance Lakers love Fultz |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 11:38:36 GMT -5
Steven A Smith says Sixers are moving up to grab Jackson, not Fultz. I'm so confused, that doesn't make sense. Could we really trade to 3 and still get Fultz? Not a chance Lakers love Fultz Right now I think the Lakers pass on Fultz for Ball. All offseason reports have said Lakers are trying to convince teams Ball isn't the pick. It makes sense, if they were hoping to make a trade. If this is whats going on, the Sixers really want Jackson. It makes a lot of sense now. The Lakers having Jackson in for two workouts, when he really doesn't fit there team. The Lakers want a draw and Ball is the biggest draw in draft right now because of his father. I've seen the reports that the Lakers love Fultz, what else are they going to say? Smith just said from what he's hearing Ball is the Lakers guy. When I look at Lakers Ball makes more sense, always has. Just remember who is now running the Lakers. Just like Danny has his players he loves, so does Magic. I think he knows a few things about big pgs that are elite passers and floor generals. That being said I don't really buy that the Sixers want Jackson. Sure he fits some what, but Fultz fits that team like a glove. They have like no good young guards. Just when you think you know what's going on this happens. To think 4 days ago I was wondering why there was almost no news about draft. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 11:46:27 GMT -5
Ainge is trying to replicate the Brooklyn trade by raping the Sixers.
So Smith says the Sixers want Jackson and you don't buy that but you buy his report that the Lakers want Ball over anyone else? There are plenty of reports that the Lakers would like to trade up to 1 for Fultz.
Regardless of all that, Ainge not taking Fultz at 1 would be a mistake unless he rapes Philly for the return.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 12:31:49 GMT -5
Woj reporting that Fultz is in Philly to meet with Sixers as a final step towards finalizing the deal.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 12:34:29 GMT -5
Follows up by saying talks centering around #3, the Lakers pick and a 2021 1st. Also says some complicated protections could be involved.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 12:40:45 GMT -5
Follows up by saying talks centering around #3, the Lakers pick and a 2021 1st. Also says some complicated protections could be involved. I would imagine those protections include the 2021 pick. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 13:30:59 GMT -5
Fultz is actually doing a presser after his workout. Sounds like this is happening folks.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 13:43:15 GMT -5
Ainge is trying to replicate the Brooklyn trade by raping the Sixers. So Smith says the Sixers want Jackson and you don't buy that but you buy his report that the Lakers want Ball over anyone else? There are plenty of reports that the Lakers would like to trade up to 1 for Fultz. Regardless of all that, Ainge not taking Fultz at 1 would be a mistake unless he rapes Philly for the return. Not just his report, but every other report also. For every report saying the Lakers like Fultz, there are 3 saying it's Ball and they are trying to get other teams to believe that Ball isn't the slam dunk it seems he is. Seems they want to make a trade if they could or at least have that as an option. Nevermind Ball only working out for Lakers. He's also a perfect fit for that team. He's also a local kid, that just had a great season at UCLA. If there's one team in the league where Ball makes more sense than Fultz it's the Lakers. Ball and Russell look like a great pairing, Fultz and Russell not so much. I don't buy Jackson is the Sixers player, because everything says otherwise. It's litterally one report. I will gain a ton of respect for Smith if he's right, I just don't see it. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 13:53:05 GMT -5
How do Fultz and Russel not make sense but Ball and Russel do? That seems like a forced view to fit your narrative.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 13:53:09 GMT -5
Follows up by saying talks centering around #3, the Lakers pick and a 2021 1st. Also says some complicated protections could be involved. Am I the only one worried about the Lakers pick? Add Ball to that team, have the young guys step up and they could be a decent team next year. Still a lottery team, but they could be in the back half instead of the top half. I wonder if the Kings 2019 pick isn't the one to go after. How to you put protections on the Lakers pick? So if it's top 3, we don't get. Then what do we get? You can't get another Laker pick. Also that 2021 pick better be your standard lottery protected, with protection decreasing every year we don't get it. I don't know how I will feel about this trade if the picks arr heavily protected. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 13:54:47 GMT -5
Follows up by saying talks centering around #3, the Lakers pick and a 2021 1st. Also says some complicated protections could be involved. Am I the only one worried about the Lakers pick? Add Ball to that team, have the young guys step up and they could be a decent team next year. Still a lottery team, but they could be in the back half instead of the top half. I wonder if the Kings 2019 pick isn't the one to go after. How to you put protections on the Lakers pick? So if it's top 3, we don't get. Then what do we get? You can't get another Laker pick. Also that 2021 pick better be your standard lottery protected, with protection decreasing every year we don't get it. I don't know how I will feel about this trade if the picks arr heavily protected. Any protections will be in the Celtics favor - this is Ainge you're talking about.. oh and the Lakers are going to suck next year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 13:56:59 GMT -5
How do Fultz and Russel not make sense but Ball and Russel do? That seems like a forced view to fit your narrative. Fultz and Russell are the same type of player. Questions if they are truly pgs or combo guards. Heck nbadraft.net lists Fultz comp as Harden/Russell. Where Ball is a pass first pg in the Jason Kidd mold. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 13:58:51 GMT -5
How do Fultz and Russel not make sense but Ball and Russel do? That seems like a forced view to fit your narrative. Fultz and Russell are the same type of player. Questions if they are truly pgs or combo guards. Heck nbadraft.net lists Fultz comp as Harden/Russell. Where Ball is a pass first pg in the Jason Kidd mold. Yea it would be terrible having two guards who can both play on and off the call and score in a variety of ways. Could never work. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 14:01:20 GMT -5
How many elite pass first point guards have won an NBA championship? Are we going to count Rondo?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 14:04:15 GMT -5
Fultz and Russell are the same type of player. Questions if they are truly pgs or combo guards. Heck nbadraft.net lists Fultz comp as Harden/Russell. Where Ball is a pass first pg in the Jason Kidd mold. Yea it would be terrible having two guards who can both play on and off the call and score in a variety of ways. Could never work. Never said it couldn't work, just that Ball is a better fit and makes a better pairing. Which he does. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 14:05:53 GMT -5
How many elite pass first point guards have won an NBA championship? Are we going to count Rondo? How many teams have won a title with two combo guards? Yes Rondo counts, why wouldn't he? Ever heard of this guy called Magic? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 14:19:12 GMT -5
Rondo doesn't count because he wasn't an elite player first and foremost and secondly he wasn't a high paid player...
Magic... cmon now.... referring to Magic in the same sentence as Ball the player is insane.
Btw can you explain your insistence on this notion the Magic has a type when he's never even made a draft pick before?
Edit: if Magic is the example of a "pass first PG" being one of your top players and making you title worthy then it shows it's not necessarily a great formula. Guy was as much a power forward as he was a point guard in that he was a 6'9 behemoth freak of nature.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 14:28:25 GMT -5
Also, if the Lakers are picking for fit next to Russel they need to have their head examined. The guy has a better chance of not being starter material than he does has stardom at this point.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 14:32:12 GMT -5
Rondo doesn't count because he wasn't an elite player first and foremost and secondly he wasn't a high paid player... Magic... cmon now.... referring to Magic in the same sentence as Ball the player is insane. Btw can you explain your insistence on this notion the Magic has a type when he's never even made a draft pick before? Rip come on, first it's name a pass first PG that won a title. There have been a bunch, Jason Kidd won a title with Mavs. Now it's Rondo wasn't elite or a high paid player. What does his salary have to do with it? Rondo was in the discussion as a top 5 PG back then. Back when he played hard on D every night. I listed Magic because he's a pass first PG that won a bunch of titles. Never said Ball was going to be the next Magic. Insistence? Saying something once hardly qualifies, but it's what I have heard. Magic loves Ball because he reminds him of himself. A great pass first PG, that really knows how to run a team. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 14:43:23 GMT -5
Salary has a lot to do with it because you are taking about a pass first guy being the main part of a team and that team being title worthy.
Magic wasn't a "pass first" pg in the traditional sense he was an all around beast of a player. Plain and simple.
Rondo was on his rookie deal and while an important piece wasn't one of the top 3 players on that squad.
Kidd was a 37 year old on a small contract. He didn't win until he took a smaller contract to join a very good team with one of the best players in history at his Apex.
Im not arguing a pass first PG can't win; I'm just saying it doesn't happen when they are your best player and making a ton of money. I don't count Magic as a pass first PG as I think that's an insult to him. He was a great all around player with no holes in his game.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 14:57:46 GMT -5
Magic played C in the game that won that first title iirc (not that it adds to or detracts from the discussion)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 15:17:16 GMT -5
First off using championships as the be all end all. Makes no sense. It litterally removes a great like John Stockton. If not for MJ he would have won a title.
Magic was a PG, that's all there is to it. Ball is an oversized PG, not as big as Magic, but a lot bigger than most. Size has nothing to do with it.
Salary also has nothing to do with it. Chris Paul is the best PG is league because he's both a pass first PG and a great scorer. He's Rondo, but he can also score. Just because he hasn't won a title, doesn't mean he can't.
The Warriors just got lucky, without the huge bump in cap space they could never have added a Durant. That's just plain old luck.
History tells us that great pass first PG are a great way to build a team. We don't come close to winning a title without Rondo. I don't care what his salary was or that he was the 4th best player. Come on the 4th best Warrior player is a max level guy. Rondo went on to get a big contract.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 15:20:22 GMT -5
I wanted to add that using great pass first PGs, is a bad way to look at it. More like great floor generals or great passers that are great at running a team.
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