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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 15:36:06 GMT -5
Rondo never got his huge contract....
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 15:38:21 GMT -5
In the salary cap era things like
Salary and player type matter. Chris Paul is one of the best defensive players on top of everything else. My issue is with the categorization of pass first pg... it implies holes in the rest of the game. If Ball turns out to be Rondo it will be a major over draft
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 17:25:31 GMT -5
Rondo got 55 million at age 23, thats a huge contract.
That's exactly why I think pass first PG is a bad way to look at it. Ball in no way looks like Rondo. More like a Rondo that can shoot and finish at the rim at a crazy high level.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 17, 2017 18:05:11 GMT -5
Can Ball defend like Rondo can/could?
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Post by homerdante on Jun 17, 2017 18:08:27 GMT -5
Sometimes it's possible to overthink a situation when the day comes you've been waiting for. When you can take a transformative player, but you're so addicted to stockpiling assets, you bypass the transformative player you need out of habit. This is a sad time to be a celtics fan.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 19:56:59 GMT -5
Wait, what??
Still gets a guy perceived to be all star talent. Gets a 2nd likely lottery pick. Can now easier to get max room. And that's sad?
I want/prefer Fultz too. But that's a looooong way from sad.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 17, 2017 20:36:09 GMT -5
If you truly believe Fultz is a generational player you take him at #1 and never look back. If however you view this as a draft that has no generational talent at the top yet is very very deep at the top then this is the draft you make the type of move that is being proposed.
To get a guy like Josh Jackson + another lottery next year is pretty great value. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there speculation next years draft will be even deeper? And we could have two lottery picks there.
Now there's speculation that philly wants to trade up to take Jackson? I don't know if that is legit but let's assume it is and LA takes Fultz. Are we good with Ball? Or Tatum? Is Ball/Tatum + a potential lottery next year worth Fultz? If the answer is yes then you make this move in a heartbeat.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 20:50:34 GMT -5
If you truly believe Fultz is a generational player you take him at #1 and never look back. If however you view this as a draft that has no generational talent at the top yet is very very deep at the top then this is the draft you make the type of move that is being proposed. To get a guy like Josh Jackson + another lottery next year is pretty great value. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there speculation next years draft will be even deeper? And we could have two lottery picks there. Now there's speculation that philly wants to trade up to take Jackson? I don't know if that is legit but let's assume it is and LA takes Fultz. Are we good with Ball? Or Tatum? Is Ball/Tatum + a potential lottery next year worth Fultz? If the answer is yes then you make this move in a heartbeat. There is a good chance that the trade won't happen until the draft to avoid that very scenario. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 20:51:27 GMT -5
Also, the problem with stock piling future assets if you are sitting on number 1 is that the chances of the future pick being number 1 or even 2 are low.
Edit: I have to believe the only chance Ainge trades the pick is if he gets a haul for it. I don't like the third piece being a 2021 Sixers first. I also don't like the idea of handing the Sixers a player like Fultz. There is a reason why people think he's going to be a stud from the get go.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 21:47:33 GMT -5
Looking like it's 3 + Lakers pick + 2019 Sac pick.
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Post by homerdante on Jun 17, 2017 22:12:49 GMT -5
Wait, what?? Still gets a guy perceived to be all star talent. Gets a 2nd likely lottery pick. Can now easier to get max room. And that's sad? I want/prefer Fultz too. But that's a looooong way from sad. It's sad in the sense of tragedy, in the sense of can't get out of your own bleeping way. Where's the point guard coming from for this future amazing nucleus? IT is NOT Thomas. He's too short to be a legit defender against top tier PGs. Statement of fact, not opinion. Against top teams, he vanishes. Fultz was a generational point guard, both ends of the floor player, huge wingspan, was going to step onto that Irving, CP, Westbrook stage as a defender sooner than later. Fultz and Brown on defense, maybe hayward too, yes please. Wishing upon draft picks is not how you make a team, it's how you hope for a team. Making a team and hoping for a team are very different. Josh Jackson might be a very good player too. Or Tatum, or whoever "the wizard trader Danny, in him we trust" thinks is better out of this draft. Today was a colossal mistake. Especially not making it contingent on draft day--ie, let us actually pick and trade fultz, dependent on them picking and trading the guy we want. Otherwise the Lakers take whoever we want, and then we're left with dreck. Habituated action is today, overthinking. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 22:24:53 GMT -5
I really don't understand how the unprotected kings pick can have protection for the Celtics... i am certainly not happy about it but we will see. They better not trade for veterans
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 22:33:56 GMT -5
This trade sounds awful right now... Lakers pick with protections (so basically we can't get the top pick and maybe not even top 2 or 3) and then only if we don't get that then we get that Sacramento 19 pick... so we traded down for a mid lottery selection? My lord...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 23:03:34 GMT -5
This trade sounds awful right now... Lakers pick with protections (so basically we can't get the top pick and maybe not even top 2 or 3) and then only if we don't get that then we get that Sacramento 19 pick... so we traded down for a mid lottery selection? My lord... I like the deal. The Celtics will get the Lakers pick from 2-5 (great chance of happening) or the Sacramento pick outright, which should also be a top 10 pick because they're also horrible. Ohh and they get Jackson, who they wanted this whole time. Danny Ange better be right about Fultz and Jackson though. The Celtics get two shots at a pick in the top 5 or top 10 range. That's pretty good imo. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 23:14:30 GMT -5
I think the Celtics have potentially 4 first round picks from other teams the next 2 years along with their own picks.
6 first round picks in two years. No one should say the Celtics future is bad. It's the exact opposite of the truth. They have so many assets coming out of their ears right now.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 17, 2017 23:22:40 GMT -5
Danny really has a type when looking at prospects, doesn't he? If the guy is athletic, a great defender and a terrible shooter, Ainge WILL draft him.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2017 23:25:29 GMT -5
Multiple people (including Gary Washburn) are saying that the protections don't matter bc Boston is gonna move the pics.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 23:25:31 GMT -5
Wait, what?? Still gets a guy perceived to be all star talent. Gets a 2nd likely lottery pick. Can now easier to get max room. And that's sad? I want/prefer Fultz too. But that's a looooong way from sad. It's sad in the sense of tragedy, in the sense of can't get out of your own bleeping way. Where's the point guard coming from for this future amazing nucleus? IT is NOT Thomas. He's too short to be a legit defender against top tier PGs. Statement of fact, not opinion. Against top teams, he vanishes. Fultz was a generational point guard, both ends of the floor player, huge wingspan, was going to step onto that Irving, CP, Westbrook stage as a defender sooner than later. Fultz and Brown on defense, maybe hayward too, yes please. Wishing upon draft picks is not how you make a team, it's how you hope for a team. Making a team and hoping for a team are very different. You're grossly overreacting. Who says you even need a generational PG? The Heat, Celtics, and Lakers have all won in recent years without one. The Celtics can also still get Hayward or Blake Griffin too in free agency. Ohhh and Golden State and San Antonio built their teams exactly through the draft too. It wasn't just a wish. Josh Jackson is a really good player, maybe even the best player in the draft. I'm saying this as a guy who also wanted Fultz. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 23:26:29 GMT -5
Can Ball defend like Rondo can/could? Not right now. While he picks up a good amount of steals and blocks, he is not elite. His effort comes and goes like a ton of young players. He also needs to get stronger. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 23:32:03 GMT -5
This trade sounds awful right now... Lakers pick with protections (so basically we can't get the top pick and maybe not even top 2 or 3) and then only if we don't get that then we get that Sacramento 19 pick... so we traded down for a mid lottery selection? My lord... I like the deal. The Celtics will get the Lakers pick from 2-5 (great chance of happening) or the Sacramento pick outright, which should also be a top 10 pick because they're also horrible. Ohh and they get Jackson, who they wanted this whole time. Danny Ange better be right about Fultz and Jackson though. The Celtics get two shots at a pick in the top 5 or top 10 range. That's pretty good imo. Kinda surprised that's it. Not a bad deal, but I was thinking we would get one more asset. The protection is brilliant. It gives you the best shot at a top 5 pick. Seems Ainge was also worried the Lakers might be decent next year. Getting only top 1 protected in 2018 is not bad. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2017 23:33:55 GMT -5
Multiple people (including Gary Washburn) are saying that the protections don't matter bc Boston is gonna move the pics. Move which picks? Both picks? Or just the 2018/2019 pick? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 17, 2017 23:39:20 GMT -5
Washburn also said the pick will come down to Jackson and motherf***ing Tatum. If Danny even thinks about drafting Tatum he needs to be fired on the spot.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 23:58:07 GMT -5
They just better not be dealing picks for a veteran who still won't let them sniff a title.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 17, 2017 23:58:58 GMT -5
It's still a pretty bogus move trading the best prospect for the new scoring 3point shooting NBA that's come out in years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:17:56 GMT -5
I like the deal. The Celtics will get the Lakers pick from 2-5 (great chance of happening) or the Sacramento pick outright, which should also be a top 10 pick because they're also horrible. Ohh and they get Jackson, who they wanted this whole time. Danny Ange better be right about Fultz and Jackson though. The Celtics get two shots at a pick in the top 5 or top 10 range. That's pretty good imo. Kinda surprised that's it. Not a bad deal, but I was thinking we would get one more asset. The protection is brilliant. It gives you the best shot at a top 5 pick. Seems Ainge was also worried the Lakers might be decent next year. Getting only top 1 protected in 2018 is not bad. I'll agree, there's no sweetner in the deal to make it a absolute steal trade (like with the trade with the Nets) but it still is a solid deal. |
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