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2017 Celtics offseason
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:20:45 GMT -5
They just better not be dealing picks for a veteran who still won't let them sniff a title. I'll agree with this 1000 percent. Let one more year play out. LeBron is rumored to be interested in going to LA after he opts out of his contract next year. In 2 years, the Celtics will be in prime position to steam roll the Eastern conference. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 0:24:39 GMT -5
Wait, what?? Still gets a guy perceived to be all star talent. Gets a 2nd likely lottery pick. Can now easier to get max room. And that's sad? I want/prefer Fultz too. But that's a looooong way from sad. It's sad in the sense of tragedy, in the sense of can't get out of your own bleeping way. Where's the point guard coming from for this future amazing nucleus? IT is NOT Thomas. He's too short to be a legit defender against top tier PGs. Statement of fact, not opinion. Against top teams, he vanishes. Fultz was a generational point guard, both ends of the floor player, huge wingspan, was going to step onto that Irving, CP, Westbrook stage as a defender sooner than later. Fultz and Brown on defense, maybe hayward too, yes please. Wishing upon draft picks is not how you make a team, it's how you hope for a team. Making a team and hoping for a team are very different. Josh Jackson might be a very good player too. Or Tatum, or whoever "the wizard trader Danny, in him we trust" thinks is better out of this draft. Today was a colossal mistake. Especially not making it contingent on draft day--ie, let us actually pick and trade fultz, dependent on them picking and trading the guy we want. Otherwise the Lakers take whoever we want, and then we're left with dreck. Habituated action is today, overthinking. How is Fultz a generational point guard? He's not the Lebron of PGs. He's going to be a good player, but it's no given he's Irving, Paul, Westbrook or a Curry. There are legit questions about Fultz quickness. Someone those other 4 players have a ton of. He sounds and looks like the Paul Pierce of PGs. He's very skilled, he's not even close to a generational talent athletically. Fultz is a tier 1 guy, there have been a decent amount of them since 2009. Fultz, Ball, Simmons, KOT, Davis, Griffin, Wall, Parker, Wiggins and Embiid. Davis is the only generational talent right now. A couple others have a chance. You can debate Wall for example. All very good players, not all superstars. Because of his quickness issues he won't be elite on D. He can be like Irving though and be bad on D. The issue on this board was the minute we got the #1 pick, everyone acted like Fultz was the next LeBron. An instant impact superstar. That's not Fultz and that's not a knock on Fultz. LeBron is just not human. He should be a good player, but its going to take him time to develop. Heck scouts question if he's really even a PG or if he's more of a combo guard. He's going to be a good player, but he has a bigger range than everyone thinks. I find it so funny people are looking at Russels age 20 season and talking about him being a bench player. Chances are Fultz numbers would be close to the same. I think Fultz is better, but the gap isn't massive. Then there's the other 4 players in draft that got tier one votes. A draft everyone thinks will develop 3-5 all stars. It's not like these guys suck. This is an epic draft class. You could still get the best player at #3. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:30:53 GMT -5
Danny really has a type when looking at prospects, doesn't he? If the guy is athletic, a great defender and a terrible shooter, Ainge WILL draft him. I don't think that's the exact case. Danny wanted Durant in the year of getting porked out of the ping pong balls that year. Danny is basically saying that Fultz isn't his guy. Plus, he's getting more value and taking more chances at getting the guy in the future. This is a evaluation on Fultz and a value trade all in the same basket. If he's wrong he misses out on one future all-star PG, while having many cracks for a all-star player somewhere else in the future. If he's right about Fultz, then this trade is a win by a near landslide. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 0:34:45 GMT -5
Washburn also said the pick will come down to Jackson and motherf***ing Tatum. If Danny even thinks about drafting Tatum he needs to be fired on the spot. I find it funny you feel that way as Tatum is like Fultz. A very skilled player, but not a super athlete. A bunch of people have compared him to Pierce. He has all those go to moves like Pierce. I really miss watching a skilled scorer like Pierce. I would be surprized if Danny passed on Jackson for Tatum, but come on. Tatum is a great player. |
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jun 18, 2017 0:35:34 GMT -5
It would be hilarious if Philly gets Fultz this year and then gets the #1 overall pick from LA next season. If you ignore the prospects in this draft and look solely at the value in a vacuum it looks decent, but I don't see how philly wouldn't do this deal on draft night, and I don't get the urgency from the C's perspective. It feels like another deal is coming and maybe in tandem it'll help explain this move, but maybe Danny actually feels like the gap between Fultz and the #3 guy isn't substantial.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 0:42:12 GMT -5
They just better not be dealing picks for a veteran who still won't let them sniff a title. I'll agree with this 1000 percent. Let one more year play out. LeBron is rumored to be interested in going to LA after he opts out of his contract next year. In 2 years, the Celtics will be in prime position to steam roll the Eastern conference. For me it's all about which player and the price. I don't want a big deal for Butler or George. If no max free agent I might look at trading late first round picks next year to get players. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:43:23 GMT -5
It would be hilarious if Philly gets Fultz this year and then gets the #1 overall pick from LA next season. If you ignore the prospects in this draft and look solely at the value in a vacuum it looks decent, but I don't see how philly wouldn't do this deal on draft night, and I don't get the urgency from the C's perspective. It feels like another deal is coming and maybe in tandem it'll help explain this move, but maybe Danny actually feels like the gap between Fultz and the #3 guy isn't substantial. If the 76's got the number one pick, then the Celtics still could easily get a top 5 pick, which makes it a deal worth having for the Celtics. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 0:48:27 GMT -5
It would be hilarious if Philly gets Fultz this year and then gets the #1 overall pick from LA next season. If you ignore the prospects in this draft and look solely at the value in a vacuum it looks decent, but I don't see how philly wouldn't do this deal on draft night, and I don't get the urgency from the C's perspective. It feels like another deal is coming and maybe in tandem it'll help explain this move, but maybe Danny actually feels like the gap between Fultz and the #3 guy isn't substantial. I get that feeling, the timing of this seems off. Why so early, like a full week before draft. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:50:38 GMT -5
I'll agree with this 1000 percent. Let one more year play out. LeBron is rumored to be interested in going to LA after he opts out of his contract next year. In 2 years, the Celtics will be in prime position to steam roll the Eastern conference. For me it's all about which player and the price. I don't want a big deal for Butler or George. If no max free agent I might look at trading late first round picks next year to get players. I'd take the long term approach. No one but the Cavs or Golden State have a shot next year. No need to waste future assets for a player that is over the age of 25. Now if some of the teams who owns the rights to Karl-Anthony Towns or Devin Booker want to make these players available, then by all means make multiple first round picks available. I don't see that happening, nor do I see the Bulls making Butler available for a good enough price and I don't want George here for a one year and done situation at all. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 0:59:05 GMT -5
It would be hilarious if Philly gets Fultz this year and then gets the #1 overall pick from LA next season. If you ignore the prospects in this draft and look solely at the value in a vacuum it looks decent, but I don't see how philly wouldn't do this deal on draft night, and I don't get the urgency from the C's perspective. It feels like another deal is coming and maybe in tandem it'll help explain this move, but maybe Danny actually feels like the gap between Fultz and the #3 guy isn't substantial. I get that feeling, the timing of this seems off. Why so early, like a full week before draft. It was probably the best deal available. Maybe Philly offers more at the draft, if they got more desperate at the time of the draft but you never know if Philly said, this is the final offer regardless. Still, you could call Philly on their bluff and say, "nope we want a little more" and maybe they do offer more last second. Which is a reasonable thing to be a little disappointed about. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 1:03:20 GMT -5
The only thing that makes this trade looks worse (if they don't trade the rights to the Lakers/Sacremnto pick) is if the Lakers fall to number 5 in the draft in 2018 and Sacramento falls higher than this in 2019 (picks 1-4 in 2019). That would make the Lakers pick a lot less valuable (which would be the Celtics pick instead of the Sacramento pick).
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 18, 2017 1:30:22 GMT -5
I find it funny you feel that way as Tatum is like Fultz. A very skilled player, but not a super athlete. A bunch of people have compared him to Pierce. He has all those go to moves like Pierce. I really miss watching a skilled scorer like Pierce. I would be surprized if Danny passed on Jackson for Tatum, but come on. Tatum is a great player. Tatum is probably slower than Danny. Not Danny as a player, I mean Danny right now. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 3:42:06 GMT -5
As a personal side note, if the Celtics draft Jackson as expected and pick up Griffin, they could have the best team to ever slam dunk a basketball into a hoop. The alley oops on this team will almost be eye popping lol. If you're not winning a championship next year, we might as well be entertained and well those slam dunks will be just that.
There will be a excess of wing players/small forwards in this lineup however. Crowder, Jackson, Brown. I don't know, maybe you play Jackson at the power forward position a lot or play Brown at the 2 guard position. It would look weird. I just think that the Celtics should look into trading a first rounder (with Crowder, maybe get a third team involved) for a player like Vucevic.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 4:01:27 GMT -5
My sense is Ainge made the trade now as he is considering trading down further to get the number 5 and 10 pick from the Kings. I don't like that scenario as this team needs more top talent not quantity. Also, I sure hope they don't trade for Butler as he is not a difference maker.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 4:07:04 GMT -5
The Celtics could trade down again but Jackson is a great player. I wouldn't do it again. You're risking trading away too much talent if you stay out of the top 3. There is a pretty significant drop off from pick 3 or 4 to number 5 in the draft.
Edit-the only way I could see the Celtics trading down again is if Ball falls to the Celtics and the Lakers take Jackson. Ball has no interest in coming here from the decline to workout here and I can see them trading Ball to Sacramento CA (Ball's family would be close enough) and then the Celtics precede to take the number 5 and 10 picks from Sacramento.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 6:42:07 GMT -5
Based on this NBA draft value chart (linked below) the current reported trade of Celtics #1 for Sixers #3 and Lakers #2 to #5 in 2018 is a net gain for the Celtics. Ranging between 12.76 (#5) to 14.11 (#2) compared to 10.76 for #1. However if Ainge trades the #3 for the number #5 and #10'with Kings it would be a net loss for the Celtics as follows... #5 (5.94) and #10 (4.11) totaling 10.05 vs 10.76 for #1. That would be a huge underpayment to say the least in terms of value and talent. However, you would have either a Lakers pick ( #2 to #5) in 2018 or Sacramento pick in 2019. fansided.com/2016/06/16/nba-draft-trade-value-chart/ |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 18, 2017 6:48:58 GMT -5
If there is an eminent trade as a result of this move I hope for f#%% sake it is for the eyebrow. If they can add the eyebrow and Heyward they can compete. Other than that I was really high on Fultz.
Silver lining thought, if the lottery balls had bounced differently the C's could have been picking 3 anyway. So luck just produced an extra lottery pick next year.
Brown, Zizic, Yabu, 2017 #3 and the haul of future picks gives the C's, Danny, a path to a long run of great bball.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 6:53:22 GMT -5
If there is an eminent trade as a result of this move I hope for f#%% sake it is for the eyebrow. If they can add the eyebrow and Heyward they can compete. Other than that I was really high on Fultz. Silver lining thought, if the lottery balls had bounced differently the C's could have been picking 3 anyway. So luck just produced an extra lottery pick next year. Brown, Zizic, Yabu, 2017 #3 and the haul of future picks gives the C's, Danny, a path to a long run of great bball. Are you referring to Unabrow, aka Anthony Davis? Why would the Pelicans trade him? |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 7:00:26 GMT -5
Well now people are saying they'd be shocked if Boston keeps #3.
Whether it's the future picks or this years, teams seem to be expecting that Danny is not done.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 18, 2017 7:11:04 GMT -5
Hope for Jackson as he at least has elite speed and athleticism.
But with all the draft picks, players stashed and moving parts, Danny has created his own ultra complex rubik's cube. Let's hope he can solve it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 8:19:04 GMT -5
I'm already pissed they gave up a great scorer and shooter but if they dealt 3 now I would start to lose faith. Danny better not pull a Bruins after doing such a good job of setting himself up for longterm success.
Fact is, right now UMass is right, even tho I'm emotionally attached to Fultz and think he's a great player, 3 years from now Jackson or Tatum etc could be better. Also, if you have 2 top 5 picks next year you could be sitting on top of a ridiculous young nucleus going forward.
However, if they package those picks for a veteran say Jimmy Butler they just pissed away a lot of their future for nothing.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 9:06:24 GMT -5
How does Jackson compare to Ingram the Lakers' lottery pick last year? IngrAm looked awful last year and could not get his shot off. Jackson is going to need to retool his shot big time as it will getter blocked quite a bit with such a low release point.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 18, 2017 9:23:43 GMT -5
If there is an eminent trade as a result of this move I hope for f#%% sake it is for the eyebrow. If they can add the eyebrow and Heyward they can compete. Other than that I was really high on Fultz. Silver lining thought, if the lottery balls had bounced differently the C's could have been picking 3 anyway. So luck just produced an extra lottery pick next year. Brown, Zizic, Yabu, 2017 #3 and the haul of future picks gives the C's, Danny, a path to a long run of great bball. Are you referring to Unabrow, aka Anthony Davis? Why would the Pelicans trade him? Yes the Unabrow. I have no idea beyond the typical NBA rumor mill, which could or could not have any merit. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 10:45:39 GMT -5
How does Jackson compare to Ingram the Lakers' lottery pick last year? IngrAm looked awful last year and could not get his shot off. Jackson is going to need to retool his shot big time as it will getter blocked quite a bit with such a low release point. Ingrams big issue is how skinny he is and in the NBA he avoids contact as a result. Jackson is more developed physically and a lot more athletic. I don't think they are comparable players other than they play similar positions. Right now the trend to win in the NBA is shooting and the Celtics severely lack in that area and Jackson is not going to help any time soon there. If Jackson is the pick, Danny is going a different route to try and win. |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 10:48:22 GMT -5
Jackson needs major work on his shot as he won't get it off in the NBA. Tatum is a much more finished product who can help the Celtics now.
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