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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 10:51:46 GMT -5
By the way it's going to be ironic if Danny does take the longer road and the Celtics biggest need down the road is a scorer guard. Next years draft is not a guard draft and in 4 years where will Bradley and Thomas be? Maybe they project Brown as more of a 2 guard and they think that they can work Jackson and a guy like Michael Porter between the 2-4 etc. or maybe they just covet wings and thing they can run 3-4 wings on the court at once.
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Post by soxcentral on Jun 18, 2017 11:12:51 GMT -5
The three factors that kept this Celtics team from beating Cleveland are rebounding, finding a true 2nd elite scoring option, and having someone to defend LeBron (and Durant if they got that far).
Jackson is actually the best potential option through this group of draft-eligible players to help with one of those options (defending LeBron/Durant), with the potential to become a very good offensive player too if his shot mechanics are improved. If he does end up being the pick, and the cost savings for dropping to #3 allows us to sign another scorer (Hayward) then it just leaves us needing to find a strong rebounder to come back and have a better chance to compete for a title next year without sacrificing any part of our future thus far. If that is how it plays out, great trade.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 11:20:58 GMT -5
The more I see tweets from Cs "experts", the less I feel we should get excited about Jackson. Keep hearing that the only thing that makes sense is another trade.
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Post by soxjim on Jun 18, 2017 11:39:31 GMT -5
The three factors that kept this Celtics team from beating Cleveland are rebounding, finding a true 2nd elite scoring option, and having someone to defend LeBron (and Durant if they got that far). Jackson is actually the best potential option through this group of draft-eligible players to help with one of those options (defending LeBron/Durant), with the potential to become a very good offensive player too if his shot mechanics are improved. If he does end up being the pick, and the cost savings for dropping to #3 allows us to sign another scorer (Hayward) then it just leaves us needing to find a strong rebounder to come back and have a better chance to compete for a title next year without sacrificing any part of our future thus far. If that is how it plays out, great trade. It will be a while before Jackson (or any other player out of COLLEGE in this year's class) will have any impact defending LeBron. By that time Thomas will be fading and then scoring would be an issue.
The smartest move for the celts would be to not get so caught up in trying to beat LeBron-- but instead -just build the team without sacrificing the future.
I'm fine with the trade if their intent is to hold on to the picks. I'm fine getting Hayward and keeping their picks etc. I think Danny would be blundering if they felt the #1 picks would be a superstar and they are trading just to try to match up to LeBron.
I would have kept the pick if I thought this kid was a superstar. But if I thought he and the 3rd pick were close - I like the move. I do think the Celts coach is fantastic and can make a lot of things work too.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 11:50:15 GMT -5
The more I see tweets from Cs "experts", the less I feel we should get excited about Jackson. Keep hearing that the only thing that makes sense is another trade. I haven't seen one tweet or report that has anything but pure speculation. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 11:52:13 GMT -5
I find it funny you feel that way as Tatum is like Fultz. A very skilled player, but not a super athlete. A bunch of people have compared him to Pierce. He has all those go to moves like Pierce. I really miss watching a skilled scorer like Pierce. I would be surprized if Danny passed on Jackson for Tatum, but come on. Tatum is a great player. Tatum is probably slower than Danny. Not Danny as a player, I mean Danny right now. I don't get your hate for Tatum. He's no where near the athlete you keep claiming he is. It's opinions like yours that had Pierce drop to #10 in the draft. Go to draftexpress and read about how Fultz struggled with his lack of speed in College. You make zero sense right now. Fultz is a god and Tatum will get him fired is going to look so stupid in a few years. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 11:55:37 GMT -5
The three factors that kept this Celtics team from beating Cleveland are rebounding, finding a true 2nd elite scoring option, and having someone to defend LeBron (and Durant if they got that far). Jackson is actually the best potential option through this group of draft-eligible players to help with one of those options (defending LeBron/Durant), with the potential to become a very good offensive player too if his shot mechanics are improved. If he does end up being the pick, and the cost savings for dropping to #3 allows us to sign another scorer (Hayward) then it just leaves us needing to find a strong rebounder to come back and have a better chance to compete for a title next year without sacrificing any part of our future thus far. If that is how it plays out, great trade. It will be a while before Jackson (or any other player out of COLLEGE in this year's class) will have any impact defending LeBron. By that time Thomas will be fading and then scoring would be an issue.
The smartest move for the celts would be to not get so caught up in trying to beat LeBron-- but instead -just build the team without sacrificing the future.
I'm fine with the trade if their intent is to hold on to the picks. I'm fine getting Hayward and keeping their picks etc. I think Danny would be blundering if they felt the #1 picks would be a superstar and they are trading just to try to match up to LeBron.
I would have kept the pick if I thought this kid was a superstar. But if I thought he and the 3rd pick were close - I like the move. I do think the Celts coach is fantastic and can make a lot of things work too.
Jackson is like Smart, he will be a great defender the minute he steps onto the court. He will be able to help defend LeBron next year. |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 18, 2017 12:05:06 GMT -5
They better keep Nets' 2018 first round pick for a shot at Michael Porter Jr 6' 11" player who could be the next KG.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 12:11:22 GMT -5
If we are going to make another move I sure hope it's a trade with Kings, or even the Suns. If the rumors are true they both want Fox. I will be happy as long as we get Jackson or Tatum. If that #3 for 5 and 10 rumor is true I bounce on it. That gives you two tier two players or one guy you feel is tier 1 and a tier 2 player. You can get another very good player at 10. You could take a huge gamble like Giles if you wanted. Decent chance a player like Smith falls to you or that french pg, with a 7 ft wingspan.
Please do not make a huge trade for a Butler or George! One interesting trade I would look at is after a trade with Kings for 5 and 10, trading #10 and another late future first for Cousins. It's a long shot, but Davis and Cousins didn't fit well together.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 12:14:47 GMT -5
They better keep Nets' 2018 first round pick for a shot at Michael Porter Jr 6' 11" player who could be the next KG. They better keep all these picks because the only way they are going to win is by building thru them. Now that could change if a different player becomes available like an AD, which some speculate is why Danny is rolling picks forward. To make sure he's always in position to get that guy when he becomes available. Basically, I can deal with all this if its leading to a smart long term build combined with the signing of a guy like Griffin or Hayward. Not if it means consolidating picks of any kind for Jimmy Butler. |
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 18, 2017 12:21:01 GMT -5
2 potential cracks at Luka Doncic, Michael Porter and the two elite bigs in DeAndre Ayton and Mo Bamba next year is keeping me sane. I would put either Ayton or Bamba being on the C's next year as like a 90% chance.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 12:27:34 GMT -5
The more I see tweets from Cs "experts", the less I feel we should get excited about Jackson. Keep hearing that the only thing that makes sense is another trade. I haven't seen one tweet or report that has anything but pure speculation. And thank you for helping us understand the concept of rumors??? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 12:28:39 GMT -5
2 potential cracks at Luka Doncic, Michael Porter and the two elite bigs in DeAndre Ayton and Mo Bamba next year is keeping me sane. I would put either Ayton or Bamba being on the C's next year as like a 90% chance. Thats a bit presumptuous as even if the Brooklyn pick ends up being the best odds at number 1 again and the Lakers as the second best odds there's still a very very good chance they don't have any picks in the top 3 |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 12:31:22 GMT -5
I haven't seen one tweet or report that has anything but pure speculation. And thank you for helping us understand the concept of rumors??? You've probably stated the same thing 4 times since the trade was confirmed and I think it's very relevant to clarify the fact that there hasn't even been one unnamed inside source that said this is likely to happen. It's pure speculation. There is a massive difference between a speculative rumor and a rumor that's based off of inside sources. Huge difference. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 12:34:28 GMT -5
Also, another trade is NOT even close
to the only thing that makes sense.
If Ainge thinks Jackson and Fultz are on the same level and he can get Jackson and another high pick instead of just Fultz that makes a ton of sense. Whether I like it or agree with it or not is irrelevant. So for someone to suggest another trade is all that makes sense is just pure stupidity.
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 18, 2017 12:53:54 GMT -5
2 potential cracks at Luka Doncic, Michael Porter and the two elite bigs in DeAndre Ayton and Mo Bamba next year is keeping me sane. I would put either Ayton or Bamba being on the C's next year as like a 90% chance. Thats a bit presumptuous as even if the Brooklyn pick ends up being the best odds at number 1 again and the Lakers as the second best odds there's still a very very good chance they don't have any picks in the top 3 Very very good chance they don't land a top 3 pick if the Nets finish with the worst record and the Lakers finish 2nd worst? lol thats not even close to true. Also there is a good chance Doncic goes in the top 3 and that would leave Ayton or Bamba there at 4 still. Like i said i'd be shocked if the Celtics didn't get one of those guys as it stands now. Obviously things can change, Giles was a top 3 guy in most mocks pre-Ncaa season and Skal was right behind Simmons unanimously the year before. I like Zizic but the Celtics need a legit big man next to Horford. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:05:17 GMT -5
2 potential cracks at Luka Doncic, Michael Porter and the two elite bigs in DeAndre Ayton and Mo Bamba next year is keeping me sane. I would put either Ayton or Bamba being on the C's next year as like a 90% chance. Thats a bit presumptuous as even if the Brooklyn pick ends up being the best odds at number 1 again and the Lakers as the second best odds there's still a very very good chance they don't have any picks in the top 3 What type of math are you using? Because you are dead wrong! The number 1 odds would be like 65% chance of a top 3 pick, nevermind when you add the odds of the 2nd worst team. The truth is you have a very very good chance at a top 3 pick next year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:09:04 GMT -5
Thats a bit presumptuous as even if the Brooklyn pick ends up being the best odds at number 1 again and the Lakers as the second best odds there's still a very very good chance they don't have any picks in the top 3 What type of math are you using? Because you are dead wrong! The number 1 odds would be like 65% chance of a top 3 pick, nevermind when you add the odds of the 2nd worst team. The truth is you have a very very good chance at a top 3 pick next year. First of all keep in mind the context of my post. The guy said there was a 90% chance those guys were here. Secondly, you need to subtract out the odds that the Lakers end up with the first pick and you lose it and beyond that, even if it's 50/50 that is still a good chance you don't end up with a top 3 pick. Sure it's a matter of opinion but even ending up with the best odds possible (unlikely in and of itself) there's still a good chance you don't get that ideal situation people are acting as if it's inevitable. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 18, 2017 13:17:40 GMT -5
Would have liked the trade if it was both the 2018 and 2019 pick coming back. We could easily end up with #5 next year or #10 in 2019. #1 for #3 and #10 in two years. That literally makes zero sense unless you legit think there's no separation between Fultz, Jackson, and Ball.
We could hypothetically end up with #1 and #2 next year. But that would necessitate having #1 regarfless. This really seems like a soft return or an un-necessary risk unless (as I said before) you truly like Jackson and Ball as much as Fultz.
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 18, 2017 13:21:32 GMT -5
What type of math are you using? Because you are dead wrong! The number 1 odds would be like 65% chance of a top 3 pick, nevermind when you add the odds of the 2nd worst team. The truth is you have a very very good chance at a top 3 pick next year. First of all keep in mind the context of my post. The guy said there was a 90% chance those guys were here. Secondly, you need to subtract out the odds that the Lakers end up with the first pick and you lose it and beyond that, even if it's 50/50 that is still a good chance you don't end up with a top 3 pick. Sure it's a matter of opinion but even ending up with the best odds possible (unlikely in and of itself) there's still a good chance you don't get that ideal situation people are acting as if it's inevitable. Yea again "very very good chance" was just simply not true. Also I apparently need to say this again, I didn't bring up a top 3 pick I brought up Bamba and Ayton. Most mocks have those guys as the 3rd and 4th picks. The chances the Celtics have a top 4 pick may not be the exact 90% chance I speculated on, but its close. Not sure why you felt the need to jump down my throat and act like I was making a different argument....but ok |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:22:23 GMT -5
Thats a bit presumptuous as even if the Brooklyn pick ends up being the best odds at number 1 again and the Lakers as the second best odds there's still a very very good chance they don't have any picks in the top 3 Very very good chance they don't land a top 3 pick if the Nets finish with the worst record and the Lakers finish 2nd worst? lol thats not even close to true. Also there is a good chance Doncic goes in the top 3 and that would leave Ayton or Bamba there at 4 still. Like i said i'd be shocked if the Celtics didn't get one of those guys as it stands now. Obviously things can change, Giles was a top 3 guy in most mocks pre-Ncaa season and Skal was right behind Simmons unanimously the year before. I like Zizic but the Celtics need a legit big man next to Horford. All I meant by a very good chance is that it's not a guarantee. To me even a 1 in 3 chance is a good chance in that situation. The real reality is that a high probability is that we aren't looking at having the best two odds of the number 1 pick. So that brings the odds way down in real life. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 13:22:29 GMT -5
And when I was being the only person on this board whoever repeats themselves, at no point was I suggesting anything other than my feeling about Cs interest (and the board trying to come to grips with) Jackson.
What doesn't make sense is making this move based on their views about Jackson but doing it before the draft when they could risk losing him.
What does make sense is not caring who is at 3 (or what protections are on the future picks, 2 separate ideas) bc you aren't going to have that/those picks.
This whole board is speculative. Why exactly am I getting called out for it?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:24:22 GMT -5
First of all keep in mind the context of my post. The guy said there was a 90% chance those guys were here. Secondly, you need to subtract out the odds that the Lakers end up with the first pick and you lose it and beyond that, even if it's 50/50 that is still a good chance you don't end up with a top 3 pick. Sure it's a matter of opinion but even ending up with the best odds possible (unlikely in and of itself) there's still a good chance you don't get that ideal situation people are acting as if it's inevitable. Yea again "very very good chance" was just simply not true. Also I apparently need to say this again, I didn't bring up a top 3 pick I brought up Bamba and Ayton. Most mocks have those guys as the 3rd and 4th picks. The chances the Celtics have a top 4 pick may not be the exact 90% chance I speculated on, but its close. Not sure why you felt the need to jump down my throat and act like I was making a different argument....but ok Calling something presumptuous constitutes jumping down your throat? My apologies - I will not question any of your posts in the future. Carry on. |
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 18, 2017 13:27:47 GMT -5
Yea again "very very good chance" was just simply not true. Also I apparently need to say this again, I didn't bring up a top 3 pick I brought up Bamba and Ayton. Most mocks have those guys as the 3rd and 4th picks. The chances the Celtics have a top 4 pick may not be the exact 90% chance I speculated on, but its close. Not sure why you felt the need to jump down my throat and act like I was making a different argument....but ok Calling something presumptuous constitutes jumping down your throat? My apologies - I will not question any of your posts in the future. Carry on. Not addressing anything else I said there, wise. Good luck in all future endeavors. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:28:48 GMT -5
And when I was being the only person on this board whoever repeats themselves, at no point was I suggesting anything other than my feeling about Cs interest (and the board trying to come to grips with) Jackson. What doesn't make sense is making this move based on their views about Jackson but doing it before the draft when they could risk losing him. What does make sense is not caring who is at 3 (or what protections are on the future picks, 2 separate ideas) bc you aren't going to have that/those picks. This whole board is speculative. Why exactly am I getting called out for it? I wasn't calling you out... you're the one who was snarky towards me bud. My first post was simply to put context into your posts for the sake of the boards discussion. Nothing more nothing less. I simply said in my first post that "I haven't seen one tweet that has been anything but pure speculation". How's that jumping down your throat? If anything you jumped down mine for pointing that out which caused me to let you know why I felt the need to draw attention to that fact which I still contend is very relevant to the conversation. Sorry you are taking it another way. People are sensitive today.. Jeesh |
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