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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:32:12 GMT -5
Calling something presumptuous constitutes jumping down your throat? My apologies - I will not question any of your posts in the future. Carry on. Not addressing anything else I said there, wise. Good luck in all future endeavors. There's nothing else to debate there. I understand u think there's a 90% chance they have one top 4/5 pick now. My expectation was you were aiming higher. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:34:12 GMT -5
Also, another trade is NOT even close to the only thing that makes sense. If Ainge thinks Jackson and Fultz are on the same level and he can get Jackson and another high pick instead of just Fultz that makes a ton of sense. Whether I like it or agree with it or not is irrelevant. So for someone to suggest another trade is all that makes sense is just pure stupidity. We have seen a bunch of trades like this happen over the years. This is the only one I can remember happening a week before draft. Usually it comes out right before draft or during draft. So teams can't plan on the new draft order. Right now the Lakers could try and block Jackson from Celtics if that's who Danny really wants. I don't think that happens, but that's why this type of thing usually never happens. So why did Danny make this now? He could have waited the Sixers out and see if they increase there offer the closer the draft is. It screams of wanting more time to work on another deal. Like Smith all of a sudden coming in for a workout after the trade is announced. If both the Suns and Kings both want Fox, you should make another trade. It just makes sense. At the very least trade down to #4 and pick up more assets, while still getting the player you were going to take at #3. Maybe Danny loves Jackson and Tatum equally and take the Kings trade knowing he gets one of them at 5, plus the 10th pick. Heck the Suns could pass on both of them and you could still have your choice. Unlikely, but who knows. Every draft has a couple shocking picks in lottery. The hard part was trading away a chance at Fultz and Ball in my opinion. After you do that, anything is on the table. This is the deepest group of tier 1 and tier 2 prospects since Ford started tracking them in 2009. There are 10 of them. So thats Kings trade makes a ton of sense. If you could add Jackson/Tatum, and then a Smith/Monk/French pg and a high lottery pick in 2018 or 2019 that's a crazy haul. Rip you keep talking about guards, well at pick #10, there should be a good one there. |
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 18, 2017 13:36:27 GMT -5
Not addressing anything else I said there, wise. Good luck in all future endeavors. There's nothing else to debate there. I understand u think there's a 90% chance they have one top 4/5 pick now. My expectation was you were aiming higher. Well I said EXACTLY who I was talking about and you for some reason took on this top 3 narrative. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:36:59 GMT -5
Also, another trade is NOT even close to the only thing that makes sense. If Ainge thinks Jackson and Fultz are on the same level and he can get Jackson and another high pick instead of just Fultz that makes a ton of sense. Whether I like it or agree with it or not is irrelevant. So for someone to suggest another trade is all that makes sense is just pure stupidity. We have seen a bunch of trades like this happen over the years. This is the only one I can remember happening a week before draft. Usually it comes out right before draft or during draft. So teams can't plan on the new draft order. Right now the Lakers could try and block Jackson from Celtics if that's who Danny really wants. I don't think that happens, but that's why this type of thing usually never happens. So why did Danny make this now? He could have waited the Sixers out and see if they increase there offer the closer the draft is. It screams of wanting more time to work on another deal. Like Smith all of a sudden coming in for a workout after the trade is announced. If both the Suns and Kings both want Fox, you should make another trade. It just makes sense. At the very least trade down to #4 and pick up more assets, while still getting the player you were going to take at #3. Maybe Danny loves Jackson and Tatum equally and take the Kings trade knowing he gets one of them at 5, plus the 10th pick. Heck the Suns could pass on both of them and you could still have your choice. Unlikely, but who knows. Every draft has a couple shocking picks in lottery. The hard part was trading away a chance at Fultz and Ball in my opinion. After you do that, anything is on the table. This is the deepest group of tier 1 and tier 2 prospects since Ford started tracking them in 2009. There are 10 of them. So thats Kings trade makes a ton of sense. If you could add Jackson/Tatum, and then a Smith/Monk/French pg and a high lottery pick in 2018 or 2019 that's a crazy haul. Rip you keep talking about guards, well at pick #10, there should be a good one there. I never said another trade didn't make sense. I just said it's far from the ONLY thing that makes sense. And that was in response to the suggestion that it was the only thing that made sense. There are a million directions this could go... ok not a million but a bunch. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 13:37:55 GMT -5
Okay.
Rereading your post, I clearly mistook your intent and responded in kind.
I understand your take at this point and retract the snark. Mea culpa.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:38:25 GMT -5
And when I was being the only person on this board whoever repeats themselves, at no point was I suggesting anything other than my feeling about Cs interest (and the board trying to come to grips with) Jackson. What doesn't make sense is making this move based on their views about Jackson but doing it before the draft when they could risk losing him. What does make sense is not caring who is at 3 (or what protections are on the future picks, 2 separate ideas) bc you aren't going to have that/those picks. This whole board is speculative. Why exactly am I getting called out for it? I wasn't calling you out... you're the one who was snarky towards me bud. My first post was simply to put context into your posts for the sake of the boards discussion. Nothing more nothing less. I simply said in my first post that "I haven't seen one tweet that has been anything but pure speculation". How's that jumping down your throat? If anything you jumped down mine for pointing that out which caused me to let you know why I felt the need to draw attention to that fact which I still contend is very relevant to the conversation. Sorry you are taking it another way. People are sensitive today.. Jeesh Rip it's you not everyone else. We get your upset, but no need to jump down everyones throat that likes this move just because you hate it. |
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Post by soxjim on Jun 18, 2017 13:39:16 GMT -5
It will be a while before Jackson (or any other player out of COLLEGE in this year's class) will have any impact defending LeBron. By that time Thomas will be fading and then scoring would be an issue.
The smartest move for the celts would be to not get so caught up in trying to beat LeBron-- but instead -just build the team without sacrificing the future.
I'm fine with the trade if their intent is to hold on to the picks. I'm fine getting Hayward and keeping their picks etc. I think Danny would be blundering if they felt the #1 picks would be a superstar and they are trading just to try to match up to LeBron.
I would have kept the pick if I thought this kid was a superstar. But if I thought he and the 3rd pick were close - I like the move. I do think the Celts coach is fantastic and can make a lot of things work too.
Jackson is like Smart, he will be a great defender the minute he steps onto the court. He will be able to help defend LeBron next year. I wish we could put money on this-- ofc we can't I won't. But that's a pipedream imo. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:39:31 GMT -5
We have seen a bunch of trades like this happen over the years. This is the only one I can remember happening a week before draft. Usually it comes out right before draft or during draft. So teams can't plan on the new draft order. Right now the Lakers could try and block Jackson from Celtics if that's who Danny really wants. I don't think that happens, but that's why this type of thing usually never happens. So why did Danny make this now? He could have waited the Sixers out and see if they increase there offer the closer the draft is. It screams of wanting more time to work on another deal. Like Smith all of a sudden coming in for a workout after the trade is announced. If both the Suns and Kings both want Fox, you should make another trade. It just makes sense. At the very least trade down to #4 and pick up more assets, while still getting the player you were going to take at #3. Maybe Danny loves Jackson and Tatum equally and take the Kings trade knowing he gets one of them at 5, plus the 10th pick. Heck the Suns could pass on both of them and you could still have your choice. Unlikely, but who knows. Every draft has a couple shocking picks in lottery. The hard part was trading away a chance at Fultz and Ball in my opinion. After you do that, anything is on the table. This is the deepest group of tier 1 and tier 2 prospects since Ford started tracking them in 2009. There are 10 of them. So thats Kings trade makes a ton of sense. If you could add Jackson/Tatum, and then a Smith/Monk/French pg and a high lottery pick in 2018 or 2019 that's a crazy haul. Rip you keep talking about guards, well at pick #10, there should be a good one there. I never said another trade didn't make sense. I just said it's far from the ONLY thing that makes sense. And that was in response to the suggestion that it was the only thing that made sense. There are a million directions this could go... ok not a million but a bunch. If not a trade, then like what? |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 13:40:19 GMT -5
If you do go back to 5 and 10, I might start taking a renewed interest in Isaac.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:40:19 GMT -5
There's nothing else to debate there. I understand u think there's a 90% chance they have one top 4/5 pick now. My expectation was you were aiming higher. Well I said EXACTLY who I was talking about and you for some reason took on this top 3 narrative. Honestly bud, I don't know why you're so upset. I simply thought it was presumptuous to put a figure like that on something like that. I used a poor example of extreme to try and illustrate my point. Please do not think I was jumping all over you. We question each other here it's not personal. UMass and I probably go back and forth the most yet also like each other's posts a lot. Don't take it personal nothing was meant by it. Keep posting I like the discussion |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:41:23 GMT -5
Jackson is like Smart, he will be a great defender the minute he steps onto the court. He will be able to help defend LeBron next year. I wish we could put money on this-- ofc we can't I won't. But that's a pipedream imo. Avatar bet? It's no pipedream that's for sure, go read Jackson's scouting report and watch the tape. He is just like Smart. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:43:26 GMT -5
I never said another trade didn't make sense. I just said it's far from the ONLY thing that makes sense. And that was in response to the suggestion that it was the only thing that made sense. There are a million directions this could go... ok not a million but a bunch. If not a trade, then like what? I'm not sure I understand what ur asking. They could just draft at 3 and keep the player. They could deal 3 for more picks. They could draft the player and trade him later. They could deal the pick for players.. they could keep 3 and deal the Lakers/Kings selection... |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:47:21 GMT -5
I wasn't calling you out... you're the one who was snarky towards me bud. My first post was simply to put context into your posts for the sake of the boards discussion. Nothing more nothing less. I simply said in my first post that "I haven't seen one tweet that has been anything but pure speculation". How's that jumping down your throat? If anything you jumped down mine for pointing that out which caused me to let you know why I felt the need to draw attention to that fact which I still contend is very relevant to the conversation. Sorry you are taking it another way. People are sensitive today.. Jeesh Rip it's you not everyone else. We get your upset, but no need to jump down everyones throat that likes this move just because you hate it. I'm not upset today. Last night I was. Today I'm at peace with it as long as there isn't a stupid Jimmy Butler trade involved here at some point. I hated the Jaylen Brown pick when it was made and now I love the player so it's just about seeing how things play out |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:47:37 GMT -5
If not a trade, then like what? I'm not sure I understand what ur asking. They could just draft at 3 and keep the player. They could deal 3 for more picks. They could draft the player and trade him later. They could deal the pick for players.. they could keep 3 and deal the Lakers/Kings selection... The reason they made this trade so early. If they were just going to take Jackson at #3, they could have done this right before draft. The timing is why everyone keeps thinking there's another move to be made. Maybe it falls through, but if I had to bet we make another trade. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:49:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand what ur asking. They could just draft at 3 and keep the player. They could deal 3 for more picks. They could draft the player and trade him later. They could deal the pick for players.. they could keep 3 and deal the Lakers/Kings selection... The reason they made this trade so early. If they were just going to take Jackson at #3, they could have done this right before draft. The timing is why everyone keeps thinking there's another move to be made. Maybe it falls through, but if I had to bet we make another trade. Well there was a report that the Celtics were waiting for assurances that Jackson was going to be there before finalizing the deal. This still has not been officially done. Also, it's possible that like you've said they are fine with Ball, Tatum or Jackson. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 13:51:41 GMT -5
If not a trade, then like what? I'm not sure I understand what ur asking. They could just draft at 3 and keep the player. They could deal 3 for more picks. They could draft the player and trade him later. They could deal the pick for players.. they could keep 3 and deal the Lakers/Kings selection... Without snark, I'd like to point out that a few of those things you listed fall into the categories of the speculation I was referring to. Only drafting a player and keeping him doesn't. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 13:57:15 GMT -5
See that makes no sense. If you only trade #1, if you get Jackson at #3, this would have happend on draft night. We take Fultz, then trade him for Jackson and the pick. That's not what happend though.
That's why the only thing that makes sense is another trade or at least Danny trying to make another trade. #3 is a very valuable pick, because it sure seems both the Suns and Kings really want Fox at #4 and #5. If there's one player in top 5 I don't want it's Fox.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 13:59:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand what ur asking. They could just draft at 3 and keep the player. They could deal 3 for more picks. They could draft the player and trade him later. They could deal the pick for players.. they could keep 3 and deal the Lakers/Kings selection... Without snark, I'd like to point out that a few of those things you listed fall into the categories of the speculation I was referring to. Only drafting a player and keeping him doesn't. That was the point of the post tho. To point out the many different directions things could go in. He asked. My only contention was that there isn't just one thing that makes sense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 14:00:54 GMT -5
If you do go back to 5 and 10, I might start taking a renewed interest in Isaac. I don't take him over Jackson or Tatum and its a long shot he's there at 10. At 10 I gamble on his upside for sure, not at 5 though. He's one of the biggest boom or bust guys in top 10. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 14:01:42 GMT -5
See that makes no sense. If you only trade #1, if you get Jackson at #3, this would have happend on draft night. We take Fultz, then trade him for Jackson and the pick. That's not what happend though. That's why the only thing that makes sense is another trade or at least Danny trying to make another trade. #3 is a very valuable pick, because it sure seems both the Suns and Kings really want Fox at #4 and #5. If there's one player in top 5 I don't want it's Fox. Trades of the number 1 pick have happened before the draft in the past without another trade happening. Also, he may not be stuck on Jackson like we all had been talking like he is. Therefor waiting doesn't matter. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 14:08:45 GMT -5
Not to get too far into the weeds but if the intent is to counter the "the only thing that makes sense is another trade" speculation, only 1 of those things does that. The draft and keep 3.
Add the timing of the trade, and I think the only 2 things that make sense are a trade or the targeting of someone other than Jackson. Otherwise, it's too risky to base the success of the trade on hoping LAL doesn't take him.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2017 14:11:36 GMT -5
If you do go back to 5 and 10, I might start taking a renewed interest in Isaac. I don't take him over Jackson or Tatum and its a long shot he's there at 10. At 10 I gamble on his upside for sure, not at 5 though. He's one of the biggest boom or bust guys in top 10. Nor would I but if it's Fultz, Jackson, Fox and Tatum, then I'm not sure where I stand on Ball (though I have heard people thinking Ball would be a fit next to Booker, leaving Tatum at 5). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2017 14:14:06 GMT -5
Name me another trade that happend a week before draft for #1 pick. If they have happend, it was a looong time ago.
There's a reason the internet is going about another trade, it mskes sense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 14:16:11 GMT -5
The Hardaway and Webber trade was before the draft.
There's a reason the internet goes crazy about stuff like this. We live in a 24 hour news world minute by minute and this is what people do.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 18, 2017 14:20:22 GMT -5
Or maybe that was misreported as such
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