|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 19, 2017 12:38:30 GMT -5
This is an awful deal if we end up with Philly's pick in 19.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 12:39:51 GMT -5
Basically Danny is swinging for the fences
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2017 12:40:14 GMT -5
Reports are now that 19 is the best of Philly/Sac pick unless it's #1 overall, then it's the other one. That's just stupid. Sure there's only a small chance the Kings pick is #1, but if it is we could end up with a mid first round pick. That's just stupid! |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 12:40:17 GMT -5
This is an awful deal if we end up with Philly's pick in 19. Not if the guy we pick is better than Fultz at that time. But I definitely feel you. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2017 12:42:37 GMT -5
I also don't buy the Butler trade talk. In my opinion it only makes sense if you get a max guy, not before. Also Hayward and Butler wouldn't be a great fit.
|
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 19, 2017 12:43:07 GMT -5
No one else could beat this offer from Philly?
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
|
Post by wcp3 on Jun 19, 2017 12:48:26 GMT -5
I also don't buy the Butler trade talk. In my opinion it only makes sense if you get a max guy, not before. Also Hayward and Butler wouldn't be a great fit. They complement each other well, but I think the chance of getting both is minuscule. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 12:52:57 GMT -5
I also don't buy the Butler trade talk. In my opinion it only makes sense if you get a max guy, not before. Also Hayward and Butler wouldn't be a great fit. They complement each other well, but I think the chance of getting both is minuscule. I really just want to make these picks and let the kids develop and use free agency to add a piece. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 12:54:31 GMT -5
No one else could beat this offer from Philly? If Danny keeps the picks, it's really a potential steal for the Celtics - the problem is it's risky. However, if Danny thinks Fultz and the other 3 are all interchangeable then he's added a potential stud for little or no downgrade. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 13:01:58 GMT -5
Ainge said they will probably still draft same guy they planned to take number 1
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2017 13:02:30 GMT -5
I also don't buy the Butler trade talk. In my opinion it only makes sense if you get a max guy, not before. Also Hayward and Butler wouldn't be a great fit. They complement each other well, but I think the chance of getting both is minuscule. How? They are both SFs. I know Butler played SG, but he got bigger and just had his best season at SF. Also Butlers shot comes and goes, so SF just makes more sense. Also Hayward can't play PF. Sure he has the size, just not the body. Griffin and Butler, make more sense. I'd much rather just sign Hayward and keep the young guys. Wait for a true superstar in trade like Davis. It's not a given you beat Cleveland with Hayward and Butler. Chances you beat Warriors are very small. We've waited so long, we need to make sure we are legit title contenders if we start cashing in young players. |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2017 13:03:44 GMT -5
And Philly is really the only team that enabled them to stay in the range to get that level of player AND have a crack at a top 5 pick in 1 of the next 2 drafts (bc Fultz would likely make the other team too good to be in that range - so it had to be a team that had a bad teams pick).
Still don't like it but this was likely the best offer given what Danny seems to want to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 13:05:10 GMT -5
Btw If Danny really wasn't going to take Fultz 1 then thank god they made the trade because if I was sitting there and did not hear his name on Thursday I may have been in handcuffs by Friday morning
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
|
Post by wcp3 on Jun 19, 2017 13:23:06 GMT -5
They complement each other well, but I think the chance of getting both is minuscule. How? They are both SFs. I know Butler played SG, but he got bigger and just had his best season at SF. Also Butlers shot comes and goes, so SF just makes more sense. Also Hayward can't play PF. Sure he has the size, just not the body. Griffin and Butler, make more sense. I'd much rather just sign Hayward and keep the young guys. Wait for a true superstar in trade like Davis. It's not a given you beat Cleveland with Hayward and Butler. Chances you beat Warriors are very small. We've waited so long, we need to make sure we are legit title contenders if we start cashing in young players. Their positions are interchangeable these days. Their games are what's complementary, similar to how Pierce and Ray Allen's games were complementary. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2017 13:38:03 GMT -5
How? They are both SFs. I know Butler played SG, but he got bigger and just had his best season at SF. Also Butlers shot comes and goes, so SF just makes more sense. Also Hayward can't play PF. Sure he has the size, just not the body. Griffin and Butler, make more sense. I'd much rather just sign Hayward and keep the young guys. Wait for a true superstar in trade like Davis. It's not a given you beat Cleveland with Hayward and Butler. Chances you beat Warriors are very small. We've waited so long, we need to make sure we are legit title contenders if we start cashing in young players. Their positions are interchangeable these days. Their games are what's complementary, similar to how Pierce and Ray Allen's games were complementary. Ray Allen was great at playing off the ball. Sure he could create, but he would run around screens and get open for a three. Pierce was a guy that needed the ball to create. Both Hayward and Butler need the ball to create. Add in Thomas who needs the ball and I just don't see it. That's the exact opposite of Pierce, Allen and KG who fit together like a glove. Griffin, Butler and Thomas fit together in a better way. |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2017 13:38:12 GMT -5
So the timing of the deal is less suspicious if Boston groups all 4 (Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Tatum) together. Guaranteed to get 1 of them while also giving themselves another crack at a top 5 guy in 1 of the next 2 drafts.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
|
Post by wcp3 on Jun 19, 2017 13:42:15 GMT -5
Hayward can play on and off the ball effectively, and I never mentioned Thomas.
For the record, I'm not a Butler fan and don't want to see the Celtics give up major assets for him.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2017 13:56:28 GMT -5
Hayward can play on and off the ball effectively, and I never mentioned Thomas. For the record, I'm not a Butler fan and don't want to see the Celtics give up major assets for him. Are we trading Thomas? You have to look at how the whole team fits together. Hayward wouldn't be great playing off the ball. As he's a good, but not great shooter. The only way that works is if Thomas plays as a pass first PG. He has the ability to do that, you saw it like 25% of the time last year. If he's willing to average like 18-20 points, but get around 10 assists a game it could work. |
|
|
|
Post by soxpatsceltics on Jun 19, 2017 14:01:20 GMT -5
Their positions are interchangeable these days. Their games are what's complementary, similar to how Pierce and Ray Allen's games were complementary. Ray Allen was great at playing off the ball. Sure he could create, but he would run around screens and get open for a three. Pierce was a guy that needed the ball to create. Both Hayward and Butler need the ball to create. Add in Thomas who needs the ball and I just don't see it. That's the exact opposite of Pierce, Allen and KG who fit together like a glove. Griffin, Butler and Thomas fit together in a better way. Butler is one of the best slashers in the game. He played that role before ascending to #1 option. He's also only had 1 year with a USG% above 25. His ability to create his own shot and drive means he could be fine off the ball as well. Shot 55% on corner 3s last year and 43% in his career. He doesn't need the ball. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 14:26:25 GMT -5
Ray Allen was great at playing off the ball. Sure he could create, but he would run around screens and get open for a three. Pierce was a guy that needed the ball to create. Both Hayward and Butler need the ball to create. Add in Thomas who needs the ball and I just don't see it. That's the exact opposite of Pierce, Allen and KG who fit together like a glove. Griffin, Butler and Thomas fit together in a better way. Butler is one of the best slashers in the game. He played that role before ascending to #1 option. He's also only had 1 year with a USG% above 25. His ability to create his own shot and drive means he could be fine off the ball as well. Shot 55% on corner 3s last year and 43% in his career. He doesn't need the ball. He loves playing off the ball like in the playoffs when things got tight he wanted nothing to do with it. |
|
|
|
Post by soxpatsceltics on Jun 19, 2017 14:37:55 GMT -5
Butler is one of the best slashers in the game. He played that role before ascending to #1 option. He's also only had 1 year with a USG% above 25. His ability to create his own shot and drive means he could be fine off the ball as well. Shot 55% on corner 3s last year and 43% in his career. He doesn't need the ball. He loves playing off the ball like in the playoffs when things got tight he wanted nothing to do with it. Butler's usage percentage increased in the playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 14:40:11 GMT -5
I was joking about his inability to take over games
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 19, 2017 14:41:25 GMT -5
I still really like the trade. There is a very small chance that this blows up in their faces. The Lakers aren't going to be good next year. They're not trading assets for PG13 this year. They think they can get him for free in next off season in free agency.
|
|
|
|
Post by soxpatsceltics on Jun 19, 2017 14:43:08 GMT -5
I just don't think the "Butler can't take over games narrative" is true.
Look at his supporting cast. The Bulls spacing was next level horrible, none could shoot a 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 19, 2017 14:44:57 GMT -5
I just don't think the "Butler can't take over games narrative" is true. Look at his supporting cast. The Bulls spacing was next level horrible, none could shoot a 3. That's fine but watching that series it wasn't a good look for him. He looked great in the first couple games with even less spacing then basically it felt like he disappeared. Didn't even feel like he really competed. |
|
