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Post by ryan24 on Jul 1, 2017 7:54:24 GMT -5
I certainly agree that teams might want more. At the same time Danny is always trying to get a great trade. If he really want any of those 3 players we would have them. Example for George his best offer was Crowder, another player and 3 late first round picks. Not a bad offer, but not a great offer. Other teams are willing to include good young players. Danny won't. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just the main reason we haven't got a star is Danny doesn't seem to really want one. I disagree. I think the reported Celtics offer was significantly better than what Indiana took in the end. People rail on DD for overpaying on trades with young assets, and then get mad at Danny for not being willing to do the same thing. If the crowder, another player and the 3 picks is what was offered I agree it is a better offer than what the pacers got. I think though the key phrase here is good young players. Danny did not offer a brown or smart/rozier, which was apparently what the pacers wanted. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 8:00:43 GMT -5
I don't agree that Danny doesn't want a star. He's just not willing to significantly altar the longterm build for a situation that's not what he considers a home run. We truly don't know what he would have given for PG since he never got to the point of being able to pull the trigger since it had to happen after free agency. I'm glad the didn't trade the Lakers pick.
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Post by thebogeyman on Jul 1, 2017 8:05:17 GMT -5
I don't agree that Danny doesn't want a star. He's just not willing to significantly altar the longterm build for a situation that's not what he considers a home run. We truly don't know what he would have given for PG since he never got to the point of being able to pull the trigger since it had to happen after free agency. I'm glad the didn't trade the Lakers pick. I think this is another important point. I think Danny knows that winning now is unlikely no matter what he does, so keeping valuable assets, and pushing them down the road will help the Celts reach their peak around when CLE and GSW are starting to decline. In essence, Celtics fans are getting a good, competitive team to watch while developing young studs to eventually make a run. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 1, 2017 8:07:09 GMT -5
I'll admit, this one stings a bit - I've long been a proponent of adding George to this team (and adamantly opposed to Butler). But it's tough to know exactly what/wasn't offered this time around.
The silver lining in all of this is the Lakers not getting PG, so that pick has an even better chance at panning out now.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 8:07:23 GMT -5
I'd like to add that if one or two of Zizic, Brown or Tatum take a big jump sooner than expected then they can still really compete. Might want to add Smart (shooting) and Rozier to that list as well.
Hopefully they can add Hayward
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 1, 2017 8:11:27 GMT -5
Jordan could be a great fit with what he brings, age, length of contract. Could be a great addition. I would think Doc would like a Jae Crowder type player but not sure he would value draft picks much, although he could flip them to another deal. He could appreciate AB's game also. Not sure the C's and Clippers would be good trade partners after that. Maybe Zizic.
After all I have read about Zizic I am looking forward to what he can become.
I don't think 2 years of DJ is worth a likely top 5 but a later 1st, JC or AB then a B level asset.
This is a tough one to gauge, for me.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 8:13:12 GMT -5
Jordan could be a great fit with what he brings, age, length of contract. Could be a great addition. I would think Doc would like a Jae Crowder type player but not sure he would value draft picks much, although he could flip them to another deal. He could appreciate AB's game also. Not sure the C's and Clippers would be good trade partners after that. Maybe Zizic. After all I have read about Zizic I am looking forward to what he can become. I don't think 2 years of DJ is worth a likely top 5 but a later 1st, JC or AB then a B level asset. This is a tough one to gauge, for me. I don't think you win in the NBA with a player like Jordan taking up that much payroll. I could be wrong but I want nothing to do with him... also, I'm big on good free throw shooting and he's one of the worst in the league. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 1, 2017 8:25:21 GMT -5
Hard pass on Jordan. I'd rather see the Celts rent Favors for a year and prioritize developing Zizic.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 8:40:33 GMT -5
So I do want to change my tune earlier on the solid return. I forgot how much money Odalipo makes. That might be more than Bradley gets in his next contract... I also didn't realize how poorly Sabonis finished his rookie year. Although I do think Sabonis is a solid prospect; it wasn't enough of a return.
Also, this deal did have me feeling more confident that Danny won't be trading those high picks but then I heard they offered the Brooklyn pick at the deadline for PG13 so that's a little scary. It was a pick swap and the Indy pick would have likely been top 10 so it wouldn't have been so bad but still.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 1, 2017 9:13:13 GMT -5
So I do want to change my tune earlier on the solid return. I forgot how much money Odalipo makes. That might be more than Bradley gets in his next contract... I also didn't realize how poorly Sabonis finished his rookie year. Although I do think Sabonis is a solid prospect; it wasn't enough of a return. Also, this deal did have me feeling more confident that Danny won't be trading those high picks but then I heard they offered the Brooklyn pick at the deadline for PG13 so that's a little scary. It was a pick swap and the Indy pick would have likely been top 10 so it wouldn't have been so bad but still. Eh, we don't know what protections we're on it, and it should dispel the notion he isn't willing to make trades (the guy who gave up a thousand picks for KG apparently isn't willing to "go for it"). But there's even more pressure on them signing Hayward now, obviously. There are now multiple reports out there that the Pacers didn't want to trade him to an Eastern conference team. I continue to be floored at how many morons are running NBA organizations. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 1, 2017 9:22:31 GMT -5
I've subsequently read that even Western GMS thought their offers were better though.
For me, the strangest part is that Indy didn't wait. See if the threat of trading him to LAL (guaranteeing that the LAL/SAC/PHI pick would become just the SAC/PHI pick).
Seems so impatient but maybe Presti put a timer on the offer.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 9:27:39 GMT -5
Signings rolling in...
Curry 5/201
Livingston 3/24 w/ GS
Teague to Minny
Holiday back to NOLA with 5/123(ish)
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 9:29:29 GMT -5
Man, no one saw that OKC was one of the most underrated teams in wanting to "go for it" before Westbrook opts out next year. It makes a ton of sense for them to make this deal and start over after this next year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 9:31:51 GMT -5
I've subsequently read that even Western GMS thought their offers were better though. For me, the strangest part is that Indy didn't wait. See if the threat of trading him to LAL (guaranteeing that the LAL/SAC/PHI pick would become just the SAC/PHI pick). Seems so impatient but maybe Presti put a timer on the offer. I think Indy didn't want to bank on the Celtics getting Gordon Hayward. If the Celtics don't get Hayward then it didn't make much sense to trade for George and "hope" that he likes Boston enough to resign. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 9:36:07 GMT -5
So I do want to change my tune earlier on the solid return. I forgot how much money Odalipo makes. That might be more than Bradley gets in his next contract... I also didn't realize how poorly Sabonis finished his rookie year. Although I do think Sabonis is a solid prospect; it wasn't enough of a return. Also, this deal did have me feeling more confident that Danny won't be trading those high picks but then I heard they offered the Brooklyn pick at the deadline for PG13 so that's a little scary. It was a pick swap and the Indy pick would have likely been top 10 so it wouldn't have been so bad but still. I continue to be floored at how many morons are running NBA organizations. This makes you appreciate Danny Ainge and the Celtics front office even more. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 9:40:18 GMT -5
I'd try to swing Crowder in a deal to go get Vucevic. DeAndre Jordan might be one of the most overrated players in the NBA.
He can dunk, rebound, and block. He is not capable of doing anything else at a professional level. I don't think the Celtics have any interest in such a limited player. At least I hope they aren't.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 9:55:41 GMT -5
Yesterday was a kick in the nuts. Now you probably have no shot at the NBA finals unless there's a ton of injuries to the Cavs next year. It doesn't change the outlook of the Celtics future however.
I think the Celtics resign Bradley and Smart.
Also, Kelly Olynik is now a Celtic for another year unless another team gets dumb with a offer with him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2017 10:27:28 GMT -5
I certainly agree that teams might want more. At the same time Danny is always trying to get a great trade. If he really want any of those 3 players we would have them. Example for George his best offer was Crowder, another player and 3 late first round picks. Not a bad offer, but not a great offer. Other teams are willing to include good young players. Danny won't. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just the main reason we haven't got a star is Danny doesn't seem to really want one. I disagree. I think the reported Celtics offer was significantly better than what Indiana took in the end. People rail on DD for overpaying on trades with young assets, and then get mad at Danny for not being willing to do the same thing. I don't think what the Thunder gave up was a ton. At the same time it was better than the Celtics offer. Sabonis was a rookie that was a lottery pick. I've said all along I think thats what you can get if you trade Crowder. 3 late first round picks just don't have much value. We know this because Danny couldn't move up from 16 were he took Rozier to bottom of top 10 offering 5 mid and late first round picks. Oladipo is a younger better version of Bradley. He can play the point and pass. The Thunder were a bad fit, because Westbrook just dominated the ball. I'm not railing on Danny for not making the trade. Just pointing out that he only wants a star if he can get him at 50 cents on the dollar. That's what his offer was. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2017 10:44:04 GMT -5
I certainly agree that teams might want more. At the same time Danny is always trying to get a great trade. If he really want any of those 3 players we would have them. Example for George his best offer was Crowder, another player and 3 late first round picks. Not a bad offer, but not a great offer. Other teams are willing to include good young players. Danny won't. Not saying it's a bad thing. Just the main reason we haven't got a star is Danny doesn't seem to really want one. I agree with all three statements. Teams see all of the assets and think that Danny will trade some, maybe a lot to get what he wants. Danny is ALWAYS trying to get a great trade, like the Brooklyn trade. If he truly wanted those 3 players he would have made it happen. It seems that crowder, Bradley/smart and 1 Celtic 1st rounder looks better than the trade the pacers made. For a one year guy how much do you want to give up? Cousins is a great player , but is very toxic. Do not think either Danny or Brad would want him messing up the team chemistry. Butler to me is a tough one. He looks like he fits everything that the team would want. Does it say that Danny values tatum and brown more than butler? I think brown and one of the guards, smart,rozier, maybe Bradley is a fair deal. No bk picks or tatum, The C's want scoring so I would take a chance on Brown to trade and not Tatum. I think you are undervaluing Sabonis and Oladipo. The Pacers turned down Crowder and 3 first round picks, so they agree. How much do I want to give up? I have no clue. I always thought getting George and Hayward was a weird plan, when you have Brown and Tatum. You would have really stunted there growth. So I really don't have a problem with not making this trade. The one guy I really wanted was Cousins. I get not messing with team chemistry, but he fits our system and our needs like a glove. Chances are they are going to trade him. Him and Davis just don't mix. I hope Danny gets involved when they do. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 1, 2017 10:47:26 GMT -5
Yesterday was a kick in the nuts. Now you probably have no shot at the NBA finals unless there's a ton of injuries to the Cavs next year. It doesn't change the outlook of the Celtics future however. I think the Celtics resign Bradley and Smart. Also, Kelly Olynik is now a Celtic for another year unless another team gets dumb with a offer with him. KO has nothing to do with what happened yesterday. He has everything to do with Hayward. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2017 10:54:50 GMT -5
I've subsequently read that even Western GMS thought their offers were better though. For me, the strangest part is that Indy didn't wait. See if the threat of trading him to LAL (guaranteeing that the LAL/SAC/PHI pick would become just the SAC/PHI pick). Seems so impatient but maybe Presti put a timer on the offer. I agree. At the draft the GM made all these comments about how we don't need to make a trade right now. Then he takes the first halfway decent trade that comes along. The Chris Paul trade might be Docs best move. Zero leverage and he still gets two solid Vets, two good young players and a first round pick. It's a sad day for GMs when Doc is looking good. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2017 10:57:01 GMT -5
Yesterday was a kick in the nuts. Now you probably have no shot at the NBA finals unless there's a ton of injuries to the Cavs next year. It doesn't change the outlook of the Celtics future however. I think the Celtics resign Bradley and Smart. Also, Kelly Olynik is now a Celtic for another year unless another team gets dumb with a offer with him. KO has nothing to do with what happened yesterday. He has everything to do with Hayward. Exactly if reports are right, not only is KO gone but one of Smart or Bradley if we get Hayward. Unless he agrees to take a slightly below max deal. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2017 11:01:48 GMT -5
KO has nothing to do with what happened yesterday. He has everything to do with Hayward. Exactly if reports are right, not only is KO gone but one of Smart or Bradley if we get Hayward. Unless he agrees to take a slightly below max deal. Well the guy that makes the most sense to be gone is Crowder because the redundancy at the 3 if they get Hayward. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2017 11:13:25 GMT -5
Exactly if reports are right, not only is KO gone but one of Smart or Bradley if we get Hayward. Unless he agrees to take a slightly below max deal. Well the guy that makes the most sense to be gone is Crowder because the redundancy at the 3 if they get Hayward. Sure it seems that way, but his contract could save him. They wanted to pair Hayward, George, with Brown and Tatum. So they have to think that pairing works. If you don't want to pay Bradley or Smart it makes sense to move them. While keeping a very good asset in Crowder for a trade down the road. I also think that pairing works better. Crowder plays off the ball, unlike George. We would have major issues on D and rebounding. That being said I really think they just want to try and outscore everyone. |
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Post by Canseco on Jul 1, 2017 11:20:15 GMT -5
I don't agree that Danny doesn't want a star. He's just not willing to significantly altar the longterm build for a situation that's not what he considers a home run. We truly don't know what he would have given for PG since he never got to the point of being able to pull the trigger since it had to happen after free agency. I'm glad the didn't trade the Lakers pick. I think this is another important point. I think Danny knows that winning now is unlikely no matter what he does, so keeping valuable assets, and pushing them down the road will help the Celts reach their peak around when CLE and GSW are starting to decline. In essence, Celtics fans are getting a good, competitive team to watch while developing young studs to eventually make a run. Exactly. This is the the way to play it. |
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