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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 5, 2017 18:09:32 GMT -5
You got to think this deal trading one of Crowder/Smart/Bradley comes within the next couple days, I can't see the Celtics leaving Hayward hanging too long. Regardless, I think the Bogut mid level exception deal is a good one. I'm not sure of the free agent market and who else is our there for big men that would consider the mid level exception. Please no. I love the player, but he can't stay healthy. We can't spend mid level money on Bogut. Much rather go after James Johnson, Green from the Griz or Ilyasova. A good solid Vet that has a good chance at staying healthy. Those players can all shoot the 3 ball to, seems like a must in our system. Signing Bogut with the bi-annual exception or Vet min deal wouldn't be bad. As to Hayward I think they have more than a few days. It's a done deal, just waiting on paperwork. I think he would rather wait and have the team make a good move. Rather than rushing them into a bad one. Problem is 20 teams are interested in Bogut. He is getting the mid level exception somewhere most likely. A Bogut giving you 15-20 minutes a night would do wonders for this team and I think he has a chance to hold up if he's only playing that much minutes a game. He fills a bigger need then a scorer off the bench. This team should have enough scoring there with Tatum, Brown, Rozier and company. I can't see Danny extending the press conference for Hayward past 2 weeks because he's waiting for more value to clear cap space. He'll probably tell the league "best offers on the table for anyone of the 3 players on the table, what do you got?" I think think he'll weigh his options quickly and strike a deal.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 5, 2017 19:10:31 GMT -5
Jason Tatum is really good
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Post by texs31 on Jul 5, 2017 19:44:00 GMT -5
So it seems the C's only rescinded the QO for Olynyk but they haven't renounced his rights yet. The implication of that is they can still use him in a sign-and-trade (at least until they sign Hayward when they'll have to get rid of that hold somehow).
Meanwhile, Utah is saying they would be willing to do a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward so they can get something. The question is whether KO counts as "something" (they supposedly want Crowder, but I don't see Boston doing that when they can get a real asset for him - or one of the other guys).
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Post by jmei on Jul 5, 2017 19:44:39 GMT -5
Per ESPN, Celtics have been shopping Smart, Crowder and Bradley, as expected.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 5, 2017 19:52:12 GMT -5
Man, I just looked at Memphis' current and future cap situation and they are in a jam.
Conley, Gasol and whatever health you can get from Parsons likely mean tanking isn't going to work (barring an injury or trade). Meanwhile, if they just let their FA's trickle off (and only sign 1 year deals) they really won't have significant space (next year they could have around 9Mn pending draft spot and cap, the following they would have $17 if they don't pick up Baldwin's option the Oct prior - unless Gasol opts out).
So what do they do? I guess the question is, unless you can dump 1 of those 3 deals, is Green better than any FA they can get for the room they have (and, more importantly, how long of a deal can they get away with).
Whatever the answer is, I doubt ZERO contact (assuming that's the whole story) is the right move.
On a related note, wouldn't Gasol make sense for Cleveland? Why bring in Anthony (other than bc he's friends with Lebron and you do what James says)? To have ANY chance against GS, come up with at least 1 more position where GS doesn't have an advantage (Center)?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 5, 2017 20:51:30 GMT -5
So it seems the C's only rescinded the QO for Olynyk but they haven't renounced his rights yet. The implication of that is they can still use him in a sign-and-trade (at least until they sign Hayward when they'll have to get rid of that hold somehow). Meanwhile, Utah is saying they would be willing to do a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward so they can get something. The question is whether KO counts as "something" (they supposedly want Crowder, but I don't see Boston doing that when they can get a real asset for him - or one of the other guys). It's too bad we don't have Zellers contract. I can see KO getting 3 years 45 million, maybe 4 years 60 million. That still leaves you like 10 million short for a trade. So you would need to add another player. Thing is can you sign and trade multiple people? Can we include Jerebko or Young? If they would except that I would gladly add a first round pick. Then we can take our time finding the right trade. We could also take back salary after getting Hayward in a trade. Only way I include Crowder is if we also get Favors. Thing is that greatly increases the money, which makes it even harder. KO and a first round pick isn't bad. It's better than nothing. KO seems like a perfect fit next to Gobert.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 5, 2017 22:02:17 GMT -5
Jae Crowder is the guy being discussed with Utah according to Woj.
What can Utah offer the Celtics for Crowder at this point?
Favors makes 12 million, which won't get the Celtics close to a trade when trying to get rid of salary.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 5, 2017 23:20:01 GMT -5
Well you can't just trade Crowder for Hayward. Our other contracts like Mickey and Jackson get you to like 10 million. KO makes a ton of sense and it makes the money work. Getting KO and Crowder would be huge for the Jazz. Would allow them to fight for a top 6 spot in the West. All joking aside they could surprise people. I really like that mix of players. Would love to watch KO in a bigger role.
With Favors basically a pipe dream, they can't offer much. They traded Lyles, can't see them giving up Hood, first round picks is all they have, besides Mitchell and Bradley. I would take Mitchell, I just don't see them trading him. Which is why this is going to be hard to pull off. Maybe worst case Bradley and a first. Anything less than that and it just doesn't make sense. Just trade Crowder and sign Hayward. There has to be a strong market for Crowder. It might take a three team deal though.
Reports say Danny wanted a late lottery pick and player for Crowder pre-draft.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 6, 2017 5:11:09 GMT -5
Just a few interesting young bigs who might be available: -Lucas "Bebe" Nogueira (TOR) (2017-18 salary: $2.9M) -Jakob Poeltl (TOR) ($2.8M) -Montrezl Harrell (LAC) ($1.5M) -Jabari Parker (MIL) ($6.8M) Harris seems like the best fit out of your list of a controllable big man for Crowder. You don't want to deal Crowder to Toronto to make them any better. I hate the idea of giving away Crowder for nothing to the Jazz in a sign and trade. Get something, anything of value for him even though teams know you have to deal him or Bradley or Smart. You could make the Parker trade if you deal Avery and multiple picks (if the Bucks were willing to do that). Probably a deal I would do if I was the Celtics. I wonder what the asking price for Parker would be? Parker would be a great get and would leave you enough space to get Hayward and keep Rozier or Yabu I think (it's very close to the cap number).
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 5:21:40 GMT -5
If we did a sign and trade would that allow us to not have to have a full max slot available meaning we'd have to cut less salary since you don't need to match 100%?
Why would we be trading a first rd pick in this deal? Or was that for Favors too?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 6, 2017 5:32:48 GMT -5
Freaking NBA couldn't just raise the cap number to 100 million (instead off 99 million). They could of kept all 3 players if that was the case and got rid of Rozier. Frustrating to say the least.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 5:39:41 GMT -5
Realistically, you want them to keep Rozier instead of Smart or Bradley assuming they won't spend the money to resign both of them. Terry should be a reasonably paid 3rd guard who has great energy and length. He's also shown an ability to shoot (not consistently tho), gets to the rim at ease (trouble finishing) and has a propensity to play bigger in big spots.
Jaylen Brown has been guarding the other teams PG in the summer league, he even did a lot of the ball handling last night. You will probably see similar things with the ball handling from Hayward this year and Tatum (in the future). Trading one of Bradley or Smart will open up playing time for Brown and Tatum.
I'm not a huge Crowder guy and I get the "log-jam" at the wings now, but his salary is going to be even more valuable to them than ever if they are trying to avoid as many luxury tax dollars as possible.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 5:46:21 GMT -5
The good news about the Jazz sign and trade news is it means other teams need to step up their offers since the Celtics will have an outlet.
Donovan Mitchell is not being dealt by the Jazz. They traded up for him and they are big time into player development being their means of survival. They love him and there's a zero percent chance they trade him to the Celtics with Hayward.
By the way... Mitchell was a great pick. He's going to be one of the better players in this draft. His biggest issue is his height and he's not really a point guard, but he's like a stronger version of Avery Bradley who can also drive to the rim. He might not be an all-star in this league considering how hard it is to actually be an all-star but he will be right there. Love that player.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 6, 2017 6:05:07 GMT -5
Realistically, you want them to keep Rozier instead of Smart or Bradley assuming they won't spend the money to resign both of them. Terry should be a reasonably paid 3rd guard who has great energy and length. He's also shown an ability to shoot (not consistently tho), gets to the rim at ease (trouble finishing) and has a propensity to play bigger in big spots. Jaylen Brown has been guarding the other teams PG in the summer league, he even did a lot of the ball handling last night. You will probably see similar things with the ball handling from Hayward this year and Tatum (in the future). Trading one of Bradley or Smart will open up playing time for Brown and Tatum. I'm not a huge Crowder guy and I get the "log-jam" at the wings now, but his salary is going to be even more valuable to them than ever if they are trying to avoid as many luxury tax dollars as possible. Yeah it's really tough to try and figure out who to trade and who to keep. It's honestly one of the hardest things to weigh out between the cons and pros for each player- Smart Pros- Potential upside in offensive game Good distrubutor Age Elite defender Cons- Not a offensive threat Lack of team control Bradley Pros- Mixes well on defense with Isaah. Matches up with other teams PG, so Boston can hide Isaah's defense at the 2 guard position most nights Great 2 way player Cons- Lack of team control and due for a big raise Durability issues Lack of size at the guard position Crowder Pros- Great contract with plenty of team control Smart efficient player that is versatile defensively Average scoring wing player Cons- Lack of upside Declined since his first year in Boston Offensive game limited despite being average to above average It's just a really tough call to make. Arguably tougher then the Fultz versus Tatum decision back in the draft. If you stuck a gun to my head, I'd still be undecided and take a bullet to the brain.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 6:21:40 GMT -5
The funny thing is while Bradley is a good fit defensively with Isaiah because he can guard point guards he's actually a bad fit because of his size and he has trouble guarding shooting guards or wings and Isaiah can't either. Hiding Isaiah on a shooting guard isn't an ideal thing. Against a lot of good teams you can't hide Isaiah on defense. Think about it:
Toronto:
Lowrie or DeRozen / wing Carroll (since Carrol only shoots 3s I would try IT on him even with the 1 foot difference) Bradley can't even guard DeRozen bc of his size which is why he lights us up.
Golden State:
Curry or Thompson/ wing Durant
Houston:
Paul or Harden / wing Ariza
Washington:
Wall or Beal / wing Porter
Cleveland:
Kyrie or Smith / wing LeBron
Denver:
Murray or Harris / wing Hernangomez
Minnesota
Teague or Butler / wing: Wiggins
Even Phoenix
Bledsoe and Booker with Warren or Jackson on the wing...
Point is the two of them make it very difficult to match up with a lot of teams. Yes, a good deal of the NBA you can hide IT but because Bradley has to guard the PG in a lot of situations for him to be most effective you are often times forced to have 2 guys in less desirable situations when they are both back there against many teams.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 6, 2017 6:25:27 GMT -5
Crazy idea of the day.
Crowder, Bradley, and the Mephis and/or Clippers pick to Orlando for Vucevic.
Orlando has the cap space to make that deal to take on extra cap space, I think.
The Celtics would have enough room to add Hayward afterwards.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 7:03:46 GMT -5
Crazy idea of the day. Crowder, Bradley, and the Mephis and/or Clippers pick to Orlando for Vucevic. Orlando has the cap space to make that deal to take on extra cap space, I think. The Celtics would have enough room to add Hayward afterwards. You love Vucevic almost as much as UMass loves context.... On a more serious note, there is no way in hell you send those two players AND a first round pick for Vucevic.... that would be highway robbery for the Magic...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 6, 2017 7:15:29 GMT -5
Crazy idea of the day. Crowder, Bradley, and the Mephis and/or Clippers pick to Orlando for Vucevic. Orlando has the cap space to make that deal to take on extra cap space, I think. The Celtics would have enough room to add Hayward afterwards. You love Vucevic almost as much as UMass loves context.... On a more serious note, there is no way in hell you send those two players AND a first round pick for Vucevic.... that would be highway robbery for the Magic... Well those first round picks are lottery protected, so their value isn't as high. I do love Vucevic. Perfect fit and the salary works. Edit- the same kind of idea would work for a Favors trade also and could include Hayward in the package along with the rights to KO.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 7:25:33 GMT -5
Is he a perfect fit?
I don't see him play enough so I'll defer. Outside of rebounding (which is no small thing, I grant you) he doesn't stretch the floor and doesn't protect the rim.
And with IT, GH and JT, his scoring chances will likely be down.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 8:05:12 GMT -5
He's a fine player but hes not worth Bradley and Crowder let alone a first round pick and that Memphis pick is not lottery protected. It's 1-8 in 2019, 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021... with age of their team and the strength of the west it's highly likely they are a lottery team in 2019 so if he pick conveys it's late lottery and we might actually hope we don't get it if the team is trending that way... the Memphis pick is a really nice asset that is trending to be even nicer
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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 8:39:19 GMT -5
Boston has contacted Knicks about Smart. Kaufman suggests they'd likely want Willy Hernangomez and/or pick
EDIT: I guess this was from Ian Begley (including suggested ask)
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 6, 2017 9:03:19 GMT -5
The strength of our team last year was a lot of good, tenacious players. Trading talent in Crowder, Smart, Bradley,letting KO, Green and Jerebko all go is scary for the amount of turnover and talent loss. Depending on player return, we would be woefully weak and even shorter at guard. Danny & Co. will work it out but the situation is fraught with risk and incredible complexity.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 9:44:50 GMT -5
The strength of our team last year was a lot of good, tenacious players. Trading talent in Crowder, Smart, Bradley,letting KO, Green and Jerebko all go is scary for the amount of turnover and talent loss. Depending on player return, we would be woefully weak and even shorter at guard. Danny & Co. will work it out but the situation is fraught with risk and incredible complexity. They are not losing talent they are gaining talent. The concern might be losing certain experience but to reach where we want to go the talent needs to get experience. Brown -Tatum - Hayward are all more talented than any of the above. I do think the dirt dog tenacious narrative is a bit over played and revisionist history. The true narrative last year was wondering where a lot of that tenacity we t from the year before. People were throwing things out like "this team thinks it is better than it is... they need to get back to out working teams.
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Post by bacricher on Jul 6, 2017 9:51:58 GMT -5
What about a sign and trade for Noel? Would that work out?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 10:17:47 GMT -5
What about a sign and trade for Noel? Would that work out? Noel also needs to be signed and is going to get a big contract so probably not but beyond that he is not a fit for Stevens system.
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