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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 10:22:27 GMT -5
See I thought he would be a fit bc I remember reading that Danny's (Brad's) ideal is 4 shooters and a rim "runner" (protect on D, crash on O).
That being said, for someone who only provides that skill set, I think Noel is going to make too much money.
So either way, I'd say pass.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 10:26:01 GMT -5
I think u nail it with the money part of it. If he was going to make a lot less and you can justify playing him as low as 20 mins some nights the he's a fit.
I don't think Brad likes paint cloggers it really hurts the drive and kick for open 3 thing.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 6, 2017 10:31:38 GMT -5
What is this board'a obsession with Noel? He's a good player who would have been far more valuable in the NBA 10 years ago.
Investing a lot in a non-elite center doesn't make sense for this team.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 10:37:42 GMT -5
2 words. Rim Protection.
That being said, I agree that investing (in this case, BOTH money and players) in him is not a good allocation of resources.
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Post by bacricher on Jul 6, 2017 10:38:00 GMT -5
I'm not obsessed with Noel. After watching this team last season, and basically since Perkins left, I'm obsessed with rebounding and shot blocking. Things this team currently lacks. Someone that actually makes it hard for opposing teams to get to the rim, as the Cavs did over and over again in the ECF. I don't care if it's Noel, McGee, Larry Sanders, or my mom. This team needs it. I just though, considering the conversation, that the C's could kill 2 birds with one stone
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Post by bacricher on Jul 6, 2017 10:39:24 GMT -5
That being said, I agree that investing (in this case, BOTH money and players) in him is not a good allocation of resources.[/quote][/i]
Would he alone cost more than Crowder and Bradley combined?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 10:52:27 GMT -5
That being said, I agree that investing (in this case, BOTH money and players) in him is not a good allocation of resources. [/i] Would he alone cost more than Crowder and Bradley combined?[/quote] There was talk of him getting a max extension... he's a restricted free agent. Btw, if your mom is a candidate they can get her for the vet minimum. She should probably sign with Maine first to get in game shape. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 11:26:09 GMT -5
If we did a sign and trade would that allow us to not have to have a full max slot available meaning we'd have to cut less salary since you don't need to match 100%? Why would we be trading a first rd pick in this deal? Or was that for Favors too? If you're talking about my offer. It's simple to get them to accept KO and a contract like Jerebko in a sign and trade. Allowing us to keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder. Allows you to keep them or trade them after getting Hayward. After you get Hayward you can take back salary in a trade, so it makes things a lot easier. You also regain any lost leverage. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 11:30:37 GMT -5
Realistically, you want them to keep Rozier instead of Smart or Bradley assuming they won't spend the money to resign both of them. Terry should be a reasonably paid 3rd guard who has great energy and length. He's also shown an ability to shoot (not consistently tho), gets to the rim at ease (trouble finishing) and has a propensity to play bigger in big spots. Jaylen Brown has been guarding the other teams PG in the summer league, he even did a lot of the ball handling last night. You will probably see similar things with the ball handling from Hayward this year and Tatum (in the future). Trading one of Bradley or Smart will open up playing time for Brown and Tatum. I'm not a huge Crowder guy and I get the "log-jam" at the wings now, but his salary is going to be even more valuable to them than ever if they are trying to avoid as many luxury tax dollars as possible. Yeah it's really tough to try and figure out who to trade and who to keep. It's honestly one of the hardest things to weigh out between the cons and pros for each player- Smart Pros- Potential upside in offensive game Good distrubutor Age Elite defender Cons- Not a offensive threat Lack of team control Bradley Pros- Mixes well on defense with Isaah. Matches up with other teams PG, so Boston can hide Isaah's defense at the 2 guard position most nights Great 2 way player Cons- Lack of team control and due for a big raise Durability issues Lack of size at the guard position Crowder Pros- Great contract with plenty of team control Smart efficient player that is versatile defensively Average scoring wing player Cons- Lack of upside Declined since his first year in Boston Offensive game limited despite being average to above average It's just a really tough call to make. Arguably tougher then the Fultz versus Tatum decision back in the draft. If you stuck a gun to my head, I'd still be undecided and take a bullet to the brain. Crowder hasn't declined since his first year in Boston. His shooting numbers have gone way up. He took less shots last year, that's about it. That was because of Thomas and Horford. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:33:23 GMT -5
Crowder defense took a step back last year. Some speculate it's because of the ankle injury he suffered in the playoffs the year before, but he was clearly a step slower.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:34:39 GMT -5
That being said his shooting was better.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 11:39:57 GMT -5
See I thought he would be a fit bc I remember reading that Danny's (Brad's) ideal is 4 shooters and a rim "runner" (protect on D, crash on O). That being said, for someone who only provides that skill set, I think Noel is going to make too much money. So either way, I'd say pass. I wonder if he truly feels that way. He had Jordan Bell just sitting there at pick number 37 and he passed. A guy a ton of people called the best defender in draft. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 11:48:38 GMT -5
Crowder defense took a step back last year. Some speculate it's because of the ankle injury he suffered in the playoffs the year before, but he was clearly a step slower. I just don't see it. You keep saying that. He was again one of the top guys in real plus minus. Overall the whole team took a major step back. They went for offense not defense. I certainly don't think he was slower. Smarts defensive numbers also went down, because the whole team defense was not even close to 2016 level. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:48:44 GMT -5
See I thought he would be a fit bc I remember reading that Danny's (Brad's) ideal is 4 shooters and a rim "runner" (protect on D, crash on O). That being said, for someone who only provides that skill set, I think Noel is going to make too much money. So either way, I'd say pass. I wonder if he truly feels that way. He had Jordan Bell just sitting there at pick number 37 and he passed. A guy a ton of people called the best defender in draft. But look who they took instead... Plus, Bell is a guy with a lot of size questions.... it's not surprising the team who drafted Draymon Green jumped on him tho |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:50:54 GMT -5
Crowder defense took a step back last year. Some speculate it's because of the ankle injury he suffered in the playoffs the year before, but he was clearly a step slower. I just don't see it. You keep saying that. He was again one of the top guys in real plus minus. Overall the whole team took a major step back. They went for offense not defense. I certainly don't think he was slower. Smarts defensive numbers also went down, because the whole team defense was not even close to 2016 level. It's ok you don't have to see it. That's what I saw - his numbers support it and other people (commentators, etc) also made mention of it. I tend to think it was his ankle injury so I wouldn't rule out a bounce back but he seemed a step slower. And with regards to Smart - we all saw how he was out of shape. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:54:12 GMT -5
And Crowder did seem to get better as the year went on which could possible support the ankle thing or just the regular fluctuations of defense.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 11:57:32 GMT -5
The good news about the Jazz sign and trade news is it means other teams need to step up their offers since the Celtics will have an outlet. Donovan Mitchell is not being dealt by the Jazz. They traded up for him and they are big time into player development being their means of survival. They love him and there's a zero percent chance they trade him to the Celtics with Hayward. By the way... Mitchell was a great pick. He's going to be one of the better players in this draft. His biggest issue is his height and he's not really a point guard, but he's like a stronger version of Avery Bradley who can also drive to the rim. He might not be an all-star in this league considering how hard it is to actually be an all-star but he will be right there. Love that player. Mitchell has a 6'10'' wingspan and a 40 plus in vertical. So I don't worry about his size. I think he is going to be really good. Hence why I want him. Never thought they would trade him, but without him the Jazz have almost nothing to offer. So I don't see how it helps our leverage. The Jazz seem to want Crowder for free. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 11:58:55 GMT -5
They can offer picks... I don't expect a player back in return.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 12:10:53 GMT -5
I wonder if he truly feels that way. He had Jordan Bell just sitting there at pick number 37 and he passed. A guy a ton of people called the best defender in draft. But look who they took instead... Plus, Bell is a guy with a lot of size questions.... it's not surprising the team who drafted Draymon Green jumped on him tho Ojeleye hasn't looked good in the Summer League. With his experience and skill set I expected a good summer league. Maybe Brown and Tatum controlling the ball has limited him. They certainly aren't playing team basketball. In regards to your Brown handling the ball comments. He sure did but it wasn't good. He would have had the ball stolen all game long by NBA level defenders. His handle seems better, but no were near guard level. He raises his dribble too high everytime he makes a move. I sure hope this doesn't lead to what happend with Trey Lyles. Had a good rookie year playing within the system. Went to summer league and tried acting like a star and it carried over to the NBA season. The commentators even brought that up in the first game. Might be the reason the Celtics didn't want Brown playing and he had to demand to play. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2017 12:21:40 GMT -5
They can offer picks... I don't expect a player back in return. So you think we can get more than one first round pick? If you add Crowder to that team they still look like a playoff team even in the West. With the bad teams in the East your looking at a pick in the 17-19 range. That's not good value for Crowder and his contract. Pre-draft a report says Danny wanted a late lottery pick and a player. Which seems a little high in that draft. Thing is a mid first round pick seems way low. I'm sure the Jazz would protect the pick. They are a well run smart team. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 12:29:33 GMT -5
They can offer picks... I don't expect a player back in return. So you think we can get more than one first round pick? If you add Crowder to that team they still look like a playoff team even in the West. With the bad teams in the East your looking at a pick in the 17-19 range. That's not good value for Crowder and his contract. Pre-draft a report says Danny wanted a late lottery pick and a player. Which seems a little high in that draft. Thing is a mid first round pick seems way low. I'm sure the Jazz would protect the pick. They are a well run smart team. It depends who you are trading... if you end up in a dump situation (mid-late first) then Crowder should not be the one to go. His contract is too valuable for that. All I was trying to say is that the Jazz publicly being interested even for a mid first can spark another team to step things up a bit. If I were Danny and offers were not what I wanted I'd be trying for an unprotected first 4 - 5 years out. I'd roll the dice. Plus, we are stocked for 2018 and 2019 already. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2017 12:34:35 GMT -5
But look who they took instead... Plus, Bell is a guy with a lot of size questions.... it's not surprising the team who drafted Draymon Green jumped on him tho Ojeleye hasn't looked good in the Summer League. With his experience and skill set I expected a good summer league. Maybe Brown and Tatum controlling the ball has limited him. They certainly aren't playing team basketball. In regards to your Brown handling the ball comments. He sure did but it wasn't good. He would have had the ball stolen all game long by NBA level defenders. His handle seems better, but no were near guard level. He raises his dribble too high everytime he makes a move. I sure hope this doesn't lead to what happend with Trey Lyles. Had a good rookie year playing within the system. Went to summer league and tried acting like a star and it carried over to the NBA season. The commentators even brought that up in the first game. Might be the reason the Celtics didn't want Brown playing and he had to demand to play. He hasn't looked great but you can see certain things from him and really that's kind of what you are looking for. In a lot of respects summer league is a sh!t show so I don't expect a lot from a guy like him. He's likely a 3 and D type guy at least at first and summer league isn't conducive to much defense or offense that creates open threes. He has good strength and athleticism. Tatum thrives in summer league because his skill set allows him to score every way imaginable and he doesn't need anyone else to help him do it. He's going to be a great scorer. Brown will be fine. He's not going to start thinking he's a star and play outside of the offense. I'd be more concerned with him being too passive, like he was last year, than anything like that. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 13:08:11 GMT -5
Boston Herald (Murphy) saying Hayward will be in town for a presser in the next couple of days. Crower S&T is close but no other details.
EDIT: I'm starting to worry this is going to end up a dump
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 6, 2017 13:32:03 GMT -5
I'd be surprised if it's a pure salary dump. That's the opposite of Ainge's style.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 6, 2017 13:33:33 GMT -5
Oh there is no rational reason for it, I admit. Just getting a sinking feeling we're not going to like this part of it.
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