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2017 Celtics offseason
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 11:19:44 GMT -5
Check that. C's can't sign both Semi and Nader (without getting rid of Jackson or another trade where we gain space). It looks like you don't need to use cap space to sign a second rd pick. You can use cap space - a minimum salary or exception money. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 11:33:14 GMT -5
It's all about exceptions. After all the cap work, Boston will be left with the Room Exception (~4Mn) and Minimum Exceptions (depends on service time).
What I don't know is if Nader could be signed using a minimum exception (would be ~$815K).
It'll also come down to order of operation. Jackson can still get cut but they'll have to sign Semi first (I believ). As long as Boston has 12 guys on the roster, his cap savings will help (previously, cutting him cost the C's bc his guaranteed money was greater than the difference between his contract and the incomplete roster charge of $815K).
Ryan Bernardoni suggested it will come down to Jackson and Nader for the 15th spot (assumes Semi and a big are signed using space and the room exception, respectively). 16 and 17 could be used on 2-way deals for Allen and Bird.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 7, 2017 11:33:26 GMT -5
Marcus Morris is a good player who might be the leading candidate to start at the 4 for them to start the season. He's a good and versatile defender, stretches the floor and is young and on a good contract. With that said, he's not as good as Bradley, and I'm a little disappointed they couldn't do better. Bradley is an undersized guard who's often injured and can't dribble and can't pass. And he was gone next year anyway. There were talks about giving up Crowder, a better player than AB IMO, for free to the Jazz. The fact that Danny actually got a guy who fits a need with basically no leverage at all is awesome. And Morris has another 2 years on a VERY reasonable contract. Think about it this way: they upgraded from Bradley to Hayward and from Amir motherloving Johnson to Marcus Morris. All of that keeping their main assets and actually acquiring another high pick in (probably) next year's draft. It's been a nearly perfect off-season. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 11:41:43 GMT -5
So I guess with Nader and Jackson, it's probably more about the roster space than the cap space (I agree, being able to use a minimum exception would make sense).
We also have Theis signing and, one would hope, the Room Exception being used on a big.
So that would be 14 with Nader and Jackson battling for the 15th spot (Allen and Bird as the 2-way deals at 16 and 17 since, I would assume, Nader wouldn't sign a 2-way)
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Post by Canseco on Jul 7, 2017 11:55:52 GMT -5
Not only do I dislike this trade, I absolutely LOATHE it.
Bradley is by no means a perfect player, but he is the type who has helped establish the team-based, selfless style under Brad Stevens. In other words, he's a winner. To trade a tone-setting defender like this while keeping a ball-stopping gunner like Thomas (who is tiny and one of the worst defenders in the entire league) is sort of nuts. The C's, to me, are a much better team with Bradley and Smart as opposed to Thomas and Smart. It is going to drive me to funnel liquor when Ainge shells out a max deal for an almost-30 matador midget (who can admittedly fill it up). ****!
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 12:00:51 GMT -5
C's were NEVER going to trade Thomas. All analysis should begin with that accepted concept.
Most likely, Bradley was NOT going to get his deal from Boston so we should probably also factor that in.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 12:06:11 GMT -5
We got the wrong Morris brother. We also got the wrong big, should have traded for Ellenson. Morris will help and isn't a bad player. This is while he's a good defender, he's a big downgrade from Johnson and KO in rebounding. He has been a poor rebounder his entire career.
By going under cap we only have room exception and no bi annual exception. So we can only offer a contract starting at 4.4 million to free agents, not 8.4 million. So I don't see how we get the rebounding rim protecting big we need now.
Also our second round picks get minium deals or we would need to use the room exception. So I would expect minimum deals.
So we need another big and he really needs to be able to rebound. But that 4.4 million most likely takes Dedmon and Green off the table. Williams would be a great target, but the Suns probably match 4.4 million. I still think I try for him. He is a rebounding machine and can block some shots.
We also need another guard or two. One that can really shoot. I can see Allen making the team, but not Bird. I just don't see Birds role in NBA. Green would be a great target if he would accept Vet minimum again.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 12:06:36 GMT -5
Not only do I dislike this trade, I absolutely LOATHE it. Bradley is by no means a perfect player, but he is the type who has helped establish the team-based, selfless style under Brad Stevens. In other words, he's a winner. To trade a tone-setting defender like this while keeping a ball-stopping gunner like Thomas (who is tiny and one of the worst defenders in the entire league) is sort of nuts. The C's, to me, are a much better team with Bradley and Smart as opposed to Thomas and Smart. It is going to drive me to funnel liquor when Ainge shells out a max deal for an almost-30 matador midget (who can admittedly fill it up). ****! Thomas isn't a ball stopping gunner. He was one of the most efficient high volume scorers you will ever find last year. It's not to say he was perfect and he didn't get swallowed up at times but don't discount his offense. He's one of the few elite scorers that was really good and willing off he ball as well. It's going to be very interesting to see him with another legit go to option. |
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Post by Canseco on Jul 7, 2017 12:08:51 GMT -5
C's were NEVER going to trade Thomas. All analysis should begin with that accepted concept. Most likely, Bradley was NOT going to get his deal from Boston so we should probably also factor that in. I understand that they were never going to trade Thomas, but just think they should have. Sell high on a guy who only impacts one end of the floor. I'd still let him walk after this season, sign a FA scorer, and draft a PG with the likely lottery pick from BK. |
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Post by Canseco on Jul 7, 2017 12:11:13 GMT -5
Not only do I dislike this trade, I absolutely LOATHE it. Bradley is by no means a perfect player, but he is the type who has helped establish the team-based, selfless style under Brad Stevens. In other words, he's a winner. To trade a tone-setting defender like this while keeping a ball-stopping gunner like Thomas (who is tiny and one of the worst defenders in the entire league) is sort of nuts. The C's, to me, are a much better team with Bradley and Smart as opposed to Thomas and Smart. It is going to drive me to funnel liquor when Ainge shells out a max deal for an almost-30 matador midget (who can admittedly fill it up). ****! Thomas isn't a ball stopping gunner. He was one of the most efficient high volume scorers you will ever find last year. It's not to say he was perfect and he didn't get swallowed up at times but don't discount his offense. He's one of the few elite scorers that was really good and willing off he ball as well. It's going to be very interesting to see him with another legit go to option. I was being a bit harsh, admittedly. He is absolutely a top notch offensive weapon. I'm just upset to lose Bradley, whose defensive effort seems infectious. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 12:12:24 GMT -5
We got the wrong Morris brother. We also got the wrong big, should have traded for Ellenson. Morris will help and isn't a bad player. This is while he's a good defender, he's a big downgrade from Johnson and KO in rebounding. He has been a poor rebounder his entire career. By going under cap we only have room exception and no bi annual exception. So we can only offer a contract starting at 4.4 million to free agents, not 8.4 million. So I don't see how we get the rebounding rim protecting big we need now. Also our second round picks get minium deals or we would need to use the room exception. So I would expect minimum deals. So we need another big and he really needs to be able to rebound. But that 4.4 million most likely takes Dedmon and Green off the table. Williams would be a great target, but the Suns probably match 4.4 million. I still think I try for him. He is a rebounding machine and can block some shots. We also need another guard or two. One that can really shoot. I can see Allen making the team, but not Bird. I just don't see Birds role in NBA. Green would be a great target if he would accept Vet minimum again. Stevens doesn't believe in "guards who can shoot". Meaning you can be a ball handler who can shoot or a wing who can shoot. It wouldn't surprise me if Thomas - Smart and Rozier are only guy's who we would look at traditionally as ball handlers on this roster. And then in Stevens eyes Hayward and Tatum can also fill that role. Jackson better get cut or traded. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 12:14:17 GMT -5
Not sure you can sell high on someone whose current injury is a mystery (could be rest, could be rest but missing opening night, could be surgery - though the latter sounds less likely) and is going to demand a HUGH contract.
You think the return on Bradley (relative to what he is) was bad? Thomas would've been pennies on the dollar.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 12:14:39 GMT -5
There are going to be a ton of young players on this team. I actually love that
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 12:15:40 GMT -5
Not only do I dislike this trade, I absolutely LOATHE it. Bradley is by no means a perfect player, but he is the type who has helped establish the team-based, selfless style under Brad Stevens. In other words, he's a winner. To trade a tone-setting defender like this while keeping a ball-stopping gunner like Thomas (who is tiny and one of the worst defenders in the entire league) is sort of nuts. The C's, to me, are a much better team with Bradley and Smart as opposed to Thomas and Smart. It is going to drive me to funnel liquor when Ainge shells out a max deal for an almost-30 matador midget (who can admittedly fill it up). ****! I think Crowder and Thomas transformed the Celtics more than Bradley. You can replace 3 and D players, you can't replace Thomas. Go to scorers are really hard to find in the NBA. I don't care how big he is, he was by far our best player last year. Did you not watch the 4th quarter and all the games he won for us? Nevermind the recruiting he did to get Horford and Hayward. They never even thought about trading him. If you think we are better off with Bradley than Thomas, you must not have watched a single game last year. I hate to see Bradley go, I love the guy. Thing is I would never have given him 20 plus million a year. He's just not worth it. The return is just ok, but we didn't have a ton of leverage either. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 12:21:36 GMT -5
We got the wrong Morris brother. We also got the wrong big, should have traded for Ellenson. Morris will help and isn't a bad player. This is while he's a good defender, he's a big downgrade from Johnson and KO in rebounding. He has been a poor rebounder his entire career. By going under cap we only have room exception and no bi annual exception. So we can only offer a contract starting at 4.4 million to free agents, not 8.4 million. So I don't see how we get the rebounding rim protecting big we need now. Also our second round picks get minium deals or we would need to use the room exception. So I would expect minimum deals. So we need another big and he really needs to be able to rebound. But that 4.4 million most likely takes Dedmon and Green off the table. Williams would be a great target, but the Suns probably match 4.4 million. I still think I try for him. He is a rebounding machine and can block some shots. We also need another guard or two. One that can really shoot. I can see Allen making the team, but not Bird. I just don't see Birds role in NBA. Green would be a great target if he would accept Vet minimum again. Stevens doesn't believe in "guards who can shoot". Meaning you can be a ball handler who can shoot or a wing who can shoot. It wouldn't surprise me if Thomas - Smart and Rozier are only guy's who we would look at traditionally as ball handlers on this roster. And then in Stevens eyes Hayward and Tatum can also fill that role. Jackson better get cut or traded. Rip no offense, but Danny shapes the roster. Sure Brad has some input, but Danny brings in the players. Then Brad can call them anything he wants. We need a true guard that can shoot. If Thomas goes down, playing Smart and Rozier together would really limited you with there shooting . Jackson does need to go. Rather have Allen and his D. He could be a better overall defender than Bradley. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 12:50:17 GMT -5
This is a good value.
My only worry is that Isaah will now be guarding other teams PG. Which means every teams best option will be to go after IT on defense first and penetrate him by going to the rim or using a PG to post IT up rather easily.
The Celtics do get more length overall (between Morris and Hayward) and that should lead to more rebounds all around.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 12:52:27 GMT -5
So we need another big and he really needs to be able to rebound. But that 4.4 million most likely takes Dedmon and Green off the table. Williams would be a great target, but the Suns probably match 4.4 million. I still think I try for him. He is a rebounding machine and can block some shots. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 12:54:19 GMT -5
Nadar looks like a guy who can play the 2 and looks like he can shoot.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 12:54:49 GMT -5
Stevens doesn't believe in "guards who can shoot". Meaning you can be a ball handler who can shoot or a wing who can shoot. It wouldn't surprise me if Thomas - Smart and Rozier are only guy's who we would look at traditionally as ball handlers on this roster. And then in Stevens eyes Hayward and Tatum can also fill that role. Jackson better get cut or traded. Rip no offense, but Danny shapes the roster. Sure Brad has some input, but Danny brings in the players. Then Brad can call them anything he wants. We need a true guard that can shoot. If Thomas goes down, playing Smart and Rozier together would really limited you with there shooting . Jackson does need to go. Rather have Allen and his D. He could be a better overall defender than Bradley. No offense taken I simply said "it wouldn't surprise me if...". Wasn't a prediction. I do think it's worth discussing the possibilities though. You like context. Right now we have to assume the roster locks are: 1. IT 2. Smart 3. Rozier 4. Brown 5. Tatum 6. Crowder 7. Hayward 8. Horford 9. Morris 10. Zizic 11. Yabusele 12. Theis That leaves 3 spots. Nader and Ojeleye are in the mix, plus you think Allen is and you want a veteran rebounder and what you call a "true guard that can shoot". I agree on the veteran rebounding big. What I don't see is giving up Nader or Ojeleye for that guard you speak of. If Thomas goes down for a period during the regular season you can survive with Rozier and Smart as the primary ball-handlers. Remember when Bradley was out it was Brown who took his starting spot last year not smart or Terry. Hayward will also see time in that type of roll. Idk what's going to happen but right now I see one open spot and I want that to go to a big. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 12:58:52 GMT -5
No to Bogut on anything other than Vet minimum deal. I don't even know if we have room for more than one big. I like the player. He is exactly what we need, but he can't stay healthy. If you can't count on him in playoffs what's the point?
Only way I target him, is if all the better options won't sign with us.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 7, 2017 12:59:27 GMT -5
We got the wrong Morris brother. We also got the wrong big, should have traded for Ellenson. Morris will help and isn't a bad player. This is while he's a good defender, he's a big downgrade from Johnson and KO in rebounding. He has been a poor rebounder his entire career. This is not true. Morris played with Drummond who's one of the best rebounders in the league, his numbers should go up playing next to Horford. Plus he played the 3 a lot for SVG. It's a least a reasonable bet that he will rebound better than KO and Amir. Some of you are overrating AB and missing the point that Hayward will take his spot in the line-up. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 13:01:38 GMT -5
Nadar looks like a guy who can play the 2 and looks like he can shoot. Can he? He is a big guy and isn't a great athlete. Not sure he can play SG. Been trying to find a scouting report but can't. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 13:06:10 GMT -5
We got the wrong Morris brother. We also got the wrong big, should have traded for Ellenson. Morris will help and isn't a bad player. This is while he's a good defender, he's a big downgrade from Johnson and KO in rebounding. He has been a poor rebounder his entire career. This is not true. Morris played with Drummond who's one of the best rebounders in the league, his numbers should go up playing next to Horford. Plus he played the 3 a lot for SVG. It's a least a reasonable bet that he will rebound better than KO and Amir. Some of you are overrating AB and missing the point that Hayward will take his spot in the line-up. He is a bad rebounder for his career, not just in Detriot. It wasn't Drummond, it's he's a bad rebounder. For a PF he is about as bad as it gets. He will not even come close to rebounding like KO or Johnson, nevermind be better. Look at the numbers. It's a big downgrade. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 13:14:12 GMT -5
Well there is reports linking Jamal Crawford to the Celtics also. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the 4.4 million dollar exception too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 13:20:11 GMT -5
Rip no offense, but Danny shapes the roster. Sure Brad has some input, but Danny brings in the players. Then Brad can call them anything he wants. We need a true guard that can shoot. If Thomas goes down, playing Smart and Rozier together would really limited you with there shooting . Jackson does need to go. Rather have Allen and his D. He could be a better overall defender than Bradley. No offense taken I simply said "it wouldn't surprise me if...". Wasn't a prediction. I do think it's worth discussing the possibilities though. You like context. Right now we have to assume the roster locks are: 1. IT 2. Smart 3. Rozier 4. Brown 5. Tatum 6. Crowder 7. Hayward 8. Horford 9. Morris 10. Zizic 11. Yabusele 12. Theis That leaves 3 spots. Nader and Ojeleye are in the mix, plus you think Allen is and you want a veteran rebounder and what you call a "true guard that can shoot". I agree on the veteran rebounding big. What I don't see is giving up Nader or Ojeleye for that guard you speak of. If Thomas goes down for a period during the regular season you can survive with Rozier and Smart as the primary ball-handlers. Remember when Bradley was out it was Brown who took his starting spot last year not smart or Terry. Hayward will also see time in that type of roll. Idk what's going to happen but right now I see one open spot and I want that to go to a big. That roster makes no sense. It screams please make another trade. I can't see us adding both Nader and Ojeleye to Crowder, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward. I like both Nader and Ojeleye, but that's why I wanted Bell. It would have helped the Roster construction and fixed our biggest need. Allen or some other guard has to be in play. No way they only carry 3 true guards. A couple of injuries, and what you are going to have Brown being a primary ball handler? Come on the Summer league showed he is not even close to ready for that. So either a guy like Theis doesn't make the team or they need to trade someone. Otherwise we are going to be the worst rebounding team in the league next year. We also won't be able to stop anyone from driving to the rim, yet again. |
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