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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 16:06:07 GMT -5
Oh I think they SHOULD add rebounding and rim protection, for sure. But just bc he has low numbers for a 6-9 guy doesn't mean that Stevens won't design a scheme that increases his rebounding numbers. What happened with Bradley was a real thing. They set it up so he'd get a lot. EDIT - Just realized that you thought I was addressing your comment about Bradley getting more rebounds. I actually wasn't. Just pointing out they COULD set up a scheme that increases Morris' rebounds as they did Bradley. The point is that adding Morris is unlikely to help their team rebounding. It doesn't really matter how many rebounds he gets as an individual next year. Bradley getting more individual rebounds didn't really help their team rebounding (ranked 27th in the league at 75.3% last year). |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 7, 2017 16:20:11 GMT -5
EDIT - Just realized that you thought I was addressing your comment about Bradley getting more rebounds. I actually wasn't. Just pointing out they COULD set up a scheme that increases Morris' rebounds as they did Bradley. OK, it did seem that way. Just want to make sure no one was interpreting what I was saying as "bad deal because Bradley's a better rebounder than Morris". You could scheme to get Morris more boards, but you're probably taking away from his strengths to do so. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 16:31:42 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 16:36:06 GMT -5
I'm guilty of picking on the detail instead of focusing on the big picture. So to get back on point:
1. I do see a clear need for rim protection and rebounding
2. We DO have a surplus of wings to trade from in order to fill that need (along with the RME)
3. Agree that Crowder is the most likely guy from said surplus to be traded. Even easier to trade him now that you can take on additional salary (once Hayward is official that is). Despite today's report that they have no desire to trade him (GM speak for "You're gonna have to convince us to do it"), he's probably available in a deal that upgrades the current roster (ie, not just future assets).
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 16:39:51 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. Yeah, if the coach is saying it, we probably need to give the idea it's due. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 16:49:24 GMT -5
Unrelated:
Zach Lowe thinks Thomas will end up around 20-23 MN instead of 30-35 MN.
Pat Riley just described Olynyk as a playmaker, tough defender and rugged rebounder. I liked KO more than many on this board but I'm not sure I would've chosen those words.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 7, 2017 17:15:11 GMT -5
I certainly hope Isaiah's minutes decline because "the little guy" can't possibly play as in the past without risking a breakdown or shortening his career. A labrum injury is significant and hard to heal. I believe AROD even had surgery to repair his labrums and could never again move well. Isaiah is all about wheels.How Lowe envisions reduced minutes tho is a mystery with Bradley gone.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 17:17:14 GMT -5
Million, not minutes.
Olynyk is a pretty good passer and a better defender than most gave him credit for. Rugged rebounder, though... nah.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 17:43:02 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. No, everyone should love the ball handling wing. Aka, Paul Pierce, aka point forward. That's really what it is. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 17:46:48 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. No, everyone should love the ball handling wing. Aka, Paul Pierce, aka point forward. That's really the what it is. That's not what I was saying. Stevens said he only sees three positions on a basketball court. 1. Ball handler 2. Wing 3. Big |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 17:50:59 GMT -5
No, everyone should love the ball handling wing. Aka, Paul Pierce, aka point forward. That's really the what it is. That's not what I was saying. Stevens said he only sees three positions on a basketball court. 1. Ball handler 2. Wing 3. Big I know I read the comment, just hate the way it's being put. You can be a wing that's a ball handler. You can be a ball handler and still play like a wing. I don't hate the idea of this. Just hate the fact that the Celtics have seemed like they've had 5 off-seasons to fix their rebounding problem and seem like they refuse to do it. |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 7, 2017 17:59:16 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. If you're referring to me, then that is not really what I was talking about. None of those guys are really Bigs, and playing them in place of real Bigs just hurts the already troublesome rim protection and rebounding problems. And none of them are really Ballhandlers either. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 7, 2017 18:11:13 GMT -5
Roster construction is a term that has been used several times in this thread. The team chemistry for next year is going to be very pivotal. Scoring is the name of the game right now. The Celtic's have 3 proven scorers in IT, Hayward and horford. It looks like at this moment they have a 4th in Tatum. They definitely need rebounding. They definitely could use a ball handling shooting point guard. They have a SURPLUS of wings. They have TOO many players even this year for the number of spots available. Worse situation next year with 2 very high draft picks coming. This actually is a great problem to have . which with the exception of GS is the envy of the other 28 teams. Unless you trade for Anthony davis there is not other big who protects the rim and can score. So, do you make a trade for a Tyson C? If you get a shooting guard then where do smart and rozier play? WHAT do you do with IT? Very tough decision. Brown, crowder, Hayward and tatum . How many can you keep? Bradley is gone. Smart and crowder could be gone. team Chemistry. ouch. A new one has to develop, but who is the leader and the rock? I know lets trade crowder, horford, smart, and the draft pick we got this year for Anthony D. Probably not going to happen. BUT, I am glad I am not Danny.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 18:19:50 GMT -5
Well at least my Vucevic dream is still alive with Crowder and Morris could match salaries in a trade with the Magic. Just saying lol. He doesn't provide much rim protection. He would certainly help, but it's not a great fit. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 18:29:49 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. I wouldn't say rejecting, but how he classifies the players is only part of the equation. For me Bradley is a ball handler if you're only using those 3 terms. So they played the majority of last year with two ball handlers on the court. Now everyone is acting like it makes perfect sense to play one ball handler and a swing. Sure they did it a little bit with Brown last year, but it was only a little bit when looking at the whole season. So besides getting hung up on terms, shouldn't we look at how he uses the players? How he groups ball handlers, swings and bigs on the court? |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 18:49:25 GMT -5
Well at least my Vucevic dream is still alive with Crowder and Morris could match salaries in a trade with the Magic. Just saying lol. He doesn't provide much rim protection. He would certainly help, but it's not a great fit. I'm okay with giving up rim protection. Just go limit the possessions for the other team by rebounding the basketball. At the very least do that. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2017 19:23:11 GMT -5
It seems like some people are rejecting the ball handler - wing - big positions and still want to revert to the traditional 1-2-3-4-5. Maybe it's right to do this maybe it's not. Just an observation. I wouldn't say rejecting, but how he classifies the players is only part of the equation. For me Bradley is a ball handler if you're only using those 3 terms. So they played the majority of last year with two ball handlers on the court. Now everyone is acting like it makes perfect sense to play one ball handler and a swing. Sure they did it a little bit with Brown last year, but it was only a little bit when looking at the whole season. So besides getting hung up on terms, shouldn't we look at how he uses the players? How he groups ball handlers, swings and bigs on the court? Yes we should look at how he uses and groups players but by the way they are talking they look at Hayward, Tatum and even Brown as ball handlers the way you look at Bradley as one. Agree or disagree that seems to be how they look at it. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 19:30:15 GMT -5
I agree that those are categories of players. The skills (I would think) are:
Offensively - Create, Space and Crash (the latter is mostly my interpretation of what the "rim runner", as has been described).
To the extent that someone can do both, the better.
Defensively - Be able to cover the 5 guys that the opposing team puts out there. So many switches anyway. You don't end up guarding who you "line up against" Of course, you want to be able to crash the boards and protect the rim as well.
So it really doesn't matter who is the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. As long as you can do those things, you're in good shape.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 7, 2017 20:54:47 GMT -5
3. Agree that Crowder is the most likely guy from said surplus to be traded. Even easier to trade him now that you can take on additional salary (once Hayward is official that is). Despite today's report that they have no desire to trade him (GM speak for "You're gonna have to convince us to do it"), he's probably available in a deal that upgrades the current roster (ie, not just future assets). What? No you don't trade Crowder unless someone gets stupid over him (which won't happen). Crowder is the starting 3, Danny didn't trade AB so he could start Marcus Smart (I hope). Trading Crowder creates a hole. If you want to upgrade the roster, you need to trade one of the picks or Jaylen/Tatum and stuff like that. I don't want to live in a world where Marcus Smart is the starter. |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 7, 2017 21:03:22 GMT -5
Man, Lonzo Ball can't hit the ocean with that ugly shooting from. In some respects I feel sorry for him that his dad has with a big mouth has been writing checks for him that will never clear.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 7, 2017 22:41:17 GMT -5
3. Agree that Crowder is the most likely guy from said surplus to be traded. Even easier to trade him now that you can take on additional salary (once Hayward is official that is). Despite today's report that they have no desire to trade him (GM speak for "You're gonna have to convince us to do it"), he's probably available in a deal that upgrades the current roster (ie, not just future assets). What? No you don't trade Crowder unless someone gets stupid over him (which won't happen). Crowder is the starting 3, Danny didn't trade AB so he could start Marcus Smart (I hope). Trading Crowder creates a hole. If you want to upgrade the roster, you need to trade one of the picks or Jaylen/Tatum and stuff like that. I don't want to live in a world where Marcus Smart is the starter. The only guys you trade Tatum/Brown or the picks for are likely not available. Until we hear otherwise, let's put that aside. So, if you consider the first 2 points (the need and the surplus), Crowder is the MOST LIKELY guy (note, that is a very different statement than "we should trade Crowder"). Of the non-Tatum/Brown wings, he's the one most likely to bring you something of consequence. Also, IF an oppurtunity presents itself, he's a guy you can sell as a starter while secretly hoping he's not (bc one of the younger guys is approaching their much higher ceiling). Again, all that points to is "most likely". Could be they fill the rebounding and rim protection needs with the exception. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2017 23:20:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't say rejecting, but how he classifies the players is only part of the equation. For me Bradley is a ball handler if you're only using those 3 terms. So they played the majority of last year with two ball handlers on the court. Now everyone is acting like it makes perfect sense to play one ball handler and a swing. Sure they did it a little bit with Brown last year, but it was only a little bit when looking at the whole season. So besides getting hung up on terms, shouldn't we look at how he uses the players? How he groups ball handlers, swings and bigs on the court? Yes we should look at how he uses and groups players but by the way they are talking they look at Hayward, Tatum and even Brown as ball handlers the way you look at Bradley as one. Agree or disagree that seems to be how they look at it. I need a definition of what Brad thinks makes up a ball handler if those 3 are considered ball handlers. Brown a ball handler? I just don't see it. I think that proves just how silly Brad's terms are when it comes to roster building. He can use whatever terms he wants when coaching. I'm just glad Danny clearly doesn't do the same thing. |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 7, 2017 23:26:07 GMT -5
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 8, 2017 7:34:58 GMT -5
He doesn't provide much rim protection. He would certainly help, but it's not a great fit. I'm okay with giving up rim protection. Just go limit the possessions for the other team by rebounding the basketball. At the very least do that. Totally agree with that statement. Rebound the ball. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 8, 2017 7:35:26 GMT -5
Million, not minutes. Olynyk is a pretty good passer and a better defender than most gave him credit for. Rugged rebounder, though... nah. Even at millions, Thomas is very prideful and he will want to be paid what he feels he is worth. I wonder how many games the Celts would have won the last few years without him. It's too bad Hayward couldn't have taken a bit less after the fact to keep Bradley...tho he apparently made that offer. |
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