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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2017 6:54:54 GMT -5
One small subplot that I'm curious about and while not unnoticed not much time was spent on it was the fact that Donovan Mitchell totally shutdown Tatum. Mitchell is easily the best (and maybe only) NBA level defender Tatum faced and the results were bad. So what's this mean?
Maybe nothing... Mitchell might be one of the best NBA defenders at his position from day 1; he's that good - probably better than Jackson inch for
Inch.
Summer league also has no one else on the court to draw attention. Tatum won't be drawing the best defender when Hayward and Thomas are on the court with him.
However, it cannot be overlooked completely and should be a reminder that Tatum is 19 and it's going to take him time to fully adjust his offensive game to be an elite scorer consistently at the NBA level.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2017 7:01:25 GMT -5
 Part of what I hope we see the first part of this year is prioritizing playing time for guys like Brown, Tatum and Zizic over full on results. I think they will win plenty of games doing this and I believe they will be in a better spot come playoff time if they do. I'd rather win 50 games and be a 3 seed by doing this than win 60 and be a 1 seed. Not that they will have much of a choice unless they make another trade... they will have one of the youngest benches in the league. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 10, 2017 11:53:27 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing the other day. Even if it led to us meeting up with Cleveland in the 2nd round instead of the finals, if we could steal two to three games from them you'd have to feel better about the team going forward rather than getting swept in the finals (or stealing just one)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2017 12:34:34 GMT -5
Can only play for two years. Is this limited to for one team? James Young is playing again and he's played in more than 2 at this point or did he have injuries? I have no clue, the new CBA could have changed the rules. In the past it used to be for your first two years. I think Young played two years for us. I did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2017 12:47:21 GMT -5
I think it's bc he's an unsigned UFA. I believe they're eligible too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2017 12:50:55 GMT -5
Baynes it is. He gets 1 yr at 4.3. Per Shams Charnia. Not the perfect fit, but he adds a defensive center to the roster that can rebound. He's a notch below Dedmon and Len, but still a massive upgrade. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2017 12:52:54 GMT -5
Alan Williams got $5Mn per from Phoenix. Interesting to see where Dedmon and Len (also was thinking Willie Reed) land money wise. I'd expect north of 5 for sure.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2017 13:03:04 GMT -5
I can see Len signing his offer. Dedmon I can see getting 5 million for 3-4 years. Reed I don't know. The money is drying up and there are a ton of center still on market. Someone is going to be a steal. I think Danny just wanted to make sure he got a guy. Which I totally understand, but one of those guys might sign for a lot less than people think.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2017 13:08:42 GMT -5
One small subplot that I'm curious about and while not unnoticed not much time was spent on it was the fact that Donovan Mitchell totally shutdown Tatum. Mitchell is easily the best (and maybe only) NBA level defender Tatum faced and the results were bad. So what's this mean? Maybe nothing... Mitchell might be one of the best NBA defenders at his position from day 1; he's that good - probably better than Jackson inch for Inch. Summer league also has no one else on the court to draw attention. Tatum won't be drawing the best defender when Hayward and Thomas are on the court with him. However, it cannot be overlooked completely and should be a reminder that Tatum is 19 and it's going to take him time to fully adjust his offensive game to be an elite scorer consistently at the NBA level. Exactly it's going to take a little time for him to get used to NBA level defenders. Especially guys like Mitchell. I wouldn't worry one bit, he has all the skills and moves to score on NBA level defenders. Still think he's the front runner for rookie of the year if he gets 25-30 minutes a night. Minutes could be the only thing stopping him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2017 13:56:04 GMT -5
What's the minutes breakdowns ? Who makes the team? 15 players can make the roster and you can now have two 2-way contracts, for a total of 17.
Bigs
Horford
Zizic
Baynes
Yabu
Theis?
Swings
Hayward
Tatum
Crowder
Brown
Morris
Ojeleye?
Nader?
Ball handlers/ guards
Thomas
Smart
Rozier
Jackson?
Allen?
Bird?
We have 12 roster locks. I don't see a place for Theis. Bird at best is a 2-way contract guy. I really want to like Jackson but he just hasn't impressed me. I think a veteran guard might make sense. If you can get the right guy for the Vet min. That allows you to keep Nader and Ojeleye, plus Jackson or a Veteran. Give Allen and Bird or ?? The two way contracts. It gets more complicated if Theis makes the team. Then you need to decide between a 4th guard or Nader and Ojeleye. One huge benefit to the new CBA is we would have an Allen in the D league for depth. I love that rule change.
I really have no clue on minutes till I can see how Brad plans to use everyone. Just so many new guys with yet to be determined roles.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 10, 2017 14:23:40 GMT -5
Agree on minutes breakdown. It's been said his desire is an 8-man rotation. Last year, depending on how you define it, it was more like 10 (just picking guys who had more than 15 mpg). In addition to the question of usage, are we adding anyone else (as you mention, Baynes is a nice addition but he's not really the answer and we do have surplus in other positions).
Based on what we have now, I think Allen and Bird could easily get 2-way deals to be the 16th and 17th guys. It's probably, therefore, between Nader and Jackson for the 15th spot (I actually think a big like Theis has more value, even just in practice - then a 4th ball handler like Jackson).
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2017 18:46:46 GMT -5
Theis really is the major wild card... anyone know his contract details? Is it guaranteed?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 10, 2017 19:35:33 GMT -5
Theis really is the major wild card... anyone know his contract details? Is it guaranteed? Best I could find was the first year was fully guaranteed - not sure on the second |
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Post by blucore on Jul 10, 2017 20:34:57 GMT -5
Does Baynes start in the Amir Johnson role? Stevens usually starts with traditional size before going small after the first sub.
Thomas - Crowder - Hayward - Horford - Baynes or does Brown start at the 2?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 10, 2017 21:59:26 GMT -5
Does Baines start in the Amir Johnson role? Stevens usually starts with traditional size before going small after the first sub. Thomas - Crowder - Hayward - Horford - Baines or does Brown start at the 2? I think the Celtics have indicated that Brown will start at the 2. I think you'll see Baines starting against the good Centers around the league like DMC, Robin Lopez, etc. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2017 6:44:16 GMT -5
It's Baynes with a Y not Baines with an i.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2017 6:50:08 GMT -5
As for the starting lineup that will vary depending on opposition and on what Stevens wants to do. I doubt Baynes starts much tho. My guess is they want to dictate play and will start a smaller lineup with Horford at the 5.
Thomas
Brown/Smart
Hayward
Crowder
Horford
It will be interesting to see if they go with a complete 5 man second unit. Could be something like:
Rozier
Smart/Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes/Zizic
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2017 7:05:41 GMT -5
I've been trying to do a little reading on Morris and Baynes and SVG is pretty high on both of them which means they have to be good defensively. Morris supposedly is one of the better guys going one on one with LeBron. Baynes seems kind of perfect for 15 minutes a night of gritty defense and rebounding. He may not be a traditional shot blocking big but that's over-rated anyways. between him and Zizic, I wouldn't mind seeing some Flagrant fouls when guys are driving to the hoop. Let's mess some people up down there like the 80s Celtics used to do.
I picture some games where Baynes plays about 25 minutes and others where he barely gets off the bench so Zizic can get minutes. It will depend less on individual matchup than it will on the scoreboard.
At least I hope they do it this way. Need to take some risks giving the kids big minutes in games.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 11, 2017 7:27:55 GMT -5
What's the minutes breakdowns ? Who makes the team? 15 players can make the roster and you can now have two 2-way contracts, for a total of 17. Bigs Horford Zizic Baynes Yabu Theis? Swings Hayward Tatum Crowder Brown Morris Ojeleye? Nader? Ball handlers/ guards Thomas Smart Rozier Jackson? Allen? Bird? We have 12 roster locks. I don't see a place for Theis. Bird at best is a 2-way contract guy. I really want to like Jackson but he just hasn't impressed me. I think a veteran guard might make sense. If you can get the right guy for the Vet min. That allows you to keep Nader and Ojeleye, plus Jackson or a Veteran. Give Allen and Bird or ?? The two way contracts. It gets more complicated if Theis makes the team. Then you need to decide between a 4th guard or Nader and Ojeleye. One huge benefit to the new CBA is we would have an Allen in the D league for depth. I love that rule change. I really have no clue on minutes till I can see how Brad plans to use everyone. Just so many new guys with yet to be determined roles. I see 10 spots taken. I put yabu, Theis, Morris, Ojeleye, nader, jackson, allen and bird. in a mix in some order for the last2 then 3 then2 spots. This is assuming they do not pick anyone else up on vet. min's. They only one I believe is gone is bird. Yabu and Theis are truly wild cards, we do not really know much about them. Probably both make the club in the 15. Most likely one not both in the 1st 12. Morris I do not think opens the season with the club. He has 4 guys that Brad likes a lot ahead of him. maybe he is packaged somehow for a big. I think they like nader and he is in the top 15, but he has at least 4 probably 5 guys ahead of him. Jackson unless he starts showing something pretty quick is gone. I think they add a vet guard and send Ojeleye and allen on the 2 way's. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2017 10:05:50 GMT -5
Yabu is a lock to make the final 15 man roster.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2017 10:10:57 GMT -5
Barring a trade, I really feel like Bird and Allen only have a chance to get s two way roster spot (16&17).
I also think the last roster spot is between Jackson and Theis with Nader and Ojeleye as on the roster.
I understand the want for a 4th PG in that group but I think the upside for Nader and Ojeleye are too high to have Jackson or a low level veteran replace them. That 4th PG is an easy add later on if you really get into a bind and need one.
Theis is the guy we truly know nothing about.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 11, 2017 10:33:21 GMT -5
If Thomas, Smart and Rozier are your top 3 ball handlers and you have Allen on a 2-way as your "Wow, that went south quickly" #4, Jackson is pure excess (regardless of where he falls in anyone's opinion on the bad-to-mediocre scale).
Theis a mystery for sure but his agreement was so early in the period (and he's a big) that it might give an indication of there thinking on him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 11, 2017 11:09:56 GMT -5
As much as I want to add a 4th veteran guard, there are almost none still available. It's basically Ian Clarke and I have to believe he gets more money or a better fit. The rest just don't fit well. We need a shooter. As of right now I keep Jackson. I don't even like him, but just for depth. Maybe when rosters get cut down another guard will be available.
Theis would need a very strong training camp and preseason to make the team. Looks like a guy they like that added depth. They didn't know how things would unfold. If they could bring over Yabu and that they were going to get Morris.
A 4th guard or even another veteran big like Bogut or Speights makes more sense.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 11, 2017 13:40:17 GMT -5
Yabu is a lock to make the final 15 man roster. I have him the top 15, not sure he is in the top 12, yet? |
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 11, 2017 13:47:57 GMT -5
Barring a trade, I really feel like Bird and Allen only have a chance to get s two way roster spot (16&17). I also think the last roster spot is between Jackson and Theis with Nader and Ojeleye as on the roster. I understand the want for a 4th PG in that group but I think the upside for Nader and Ojeleye are too high to have Jackson or a low level veteran replace them. That 4th PG is an easy add later on if you really get into a bind and need one. Theis is the guy we truly know nothing about. I think Bird is definitely out. Allen depending on how he does in camp I think has a shot at the top 15 or at least goes the 2 way route. Allen is a decent size guard who is a good defender. Could take smart's spot if smart gets put in a package to get a big who can rebound. Smart, crowder and morris in some sort of package could bring a big. Not saying to trade all 3. I agree on the 4th pg, but I also see some possibility that IT does not start the season at 100% and they want another ball handler. I do not believe that Danny is done shaping the roster. |
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