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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2017 21:19:00 GMT -5
Sale asked to stay in. Maybe there is something Sale felt he needed tonight. I can't blame JF here. What I will say is Sale was born to do this. He has waited 6 years to get in this kind of position. I trust he knows what he is capable of, and so should everyone else. I don't think this is a case of a hard ass thinking of himself. The point is that #300 tonight wasn't 1/100th as important as his 1st playoff start. He's only got so many bullets in that gun. the point is none of us know how many bullets he has. I mean the guy has been struggling. He throws a gem and people are concerned (more like paranoid) that the extra 20 or 30 pitches are going to be the difference going forward. He just struck out 13 guys. IMO, we are most likely good going forward.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2017 21:20:54 GMT -5
Sale asked to stay in. Maybe there is something Sale felt he needed tonight. I can't blame JF here. What I will say is Sale was born to do this. He has waited 6 years to get in this kind of position. I trust he knows what he is capable of, and so should everyone else. I don't think this is a case of a hard ass thinking of himself. No, there is absolutely no reason to think Sale knows what's best for himself. Players push themselves too far all the time. And there's probably no way he can know if the extra workload will affect him in October. But we know, cuz of experience and science and stuff, that it's good to rest pitchers down the stretch when you get the chance. Especially a guy who is a) your ace, and b) seems to particularly benefit from added rest. Besides which, there was nothing to gain here. There was zero upside to the decision. If it's so important to get 300 K's, let him do it in Fenway in his next start.
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Post by jchang on Sept 20, 2017 21:21:02 GMT -5
Jeez, up 9-zip and we bring in our unscored upon ace RP, gunning for Kimbrels job next year
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2017 21:21:31 GMT -5
Red Sox in danger of giving up their first run in 26 innings. Shirley you jest.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2017 21:21:56 GMT -5
enough family squabbling (we are all brothers here) what a great series by the guys. Deserve off day. Keep up the good work. C U guys then!!
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2017 21:22:07 GMT -5
The point is that #300 tonight wasn't 1/100th as important as his 1st playoff start. He's only got so many bullets in that gun. the point is none of us know how many bullets he has. I mean the guy has been struggling. He throws a gem and people are concerned (more like paranoid) that the extra 20 or 30 pitches are going to be the difference going forward. He just struck out 13 guys. IMO, we are most likely good going forward. OK fine, if you believe it was really important to leave him in a game with an 8 run lead in the 8th inning despite the fact that he always fades down the stretch of every season, then go ahead and believe it. Agree to disagree.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2017 21:23:26 GMT -5
Sale asked to stay in. Maybe there is something Sale felt he needed tonight. I can't blame JF here. What I will say is Sale was born to do this. He has waited 6 years to get in this kind of position. I trust he knows what he is capable of, and so should everyone else. I don't think this is a case of a hard ass thinking of himself. No, there is absolutely no reason to think Sale knows what's best for himself. Players push themselves too far all the time. And there's probably no way he can know if the extra workload will affect him in October. But we know, cuz of experience and science and stuff, that it's good to rest pitchers down the stretch when you get the chance. Especially a guy who is a) your ace, and b) seems to particularly benefit from added rest. Besides which, there was nothing to gain here. There was zero upside to the decision. If it's so important to get 300 K's, let him do it in Fenway in his next start. If most pitchers had their way, they'd throw 200 pitches a game and 350 innings a year because that's how competitive the best pitchers on the planet are. The team has to limit them or there is no limit.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2017 21:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2017 21:25:06 GMT -5
The point is that #300 tonight wasn't 1/100th as important as his 1st playoff start. He's only got so many bullets in that gun. the point is none of us know how many bullets he has. I mean the guy has been struggling. He throws a gem and people are concerned (more like paranoid) that the extra 20 or 30 pitches are going to be the difference going forward. He just struck out 13 guys. IMO, we are most likely good going forward. If none of us knows how many bullets he has, then that is an argument for being cautious. Certainly if you're up 8-0.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2017 21:25:48 GMT -5
No, there is absolutely no reason to think Sale knows what's best for himself. Players push themselves too far all the time. And there's probably no way he can know if the extra workload will affect him in October. But we know, cuz of experience and science and stuff, that it's good to rest pitchers down the stretch when you get the chance. Especially a guy who is a) your ace, and b) seems to particularly benefit from added rest. Besides which, there was nothing to gain here. There was zero upside to the decision. If it's so important to get 300 K's, let him do it in Fenway in his next start. Free will....self determination....these are hallmarks of great performances. We can disagree here. There is no proof the extra rest is needed. He has never been in this situation before. We will see when it is all said and done. Personally, and call me wacko if you will, I love guys that want to put it on the line. I don't think this had anything to do with 300 K's. I think he just wanted to stay out there. Add: BTW, my first post on this was to pull him. I think I got caught up in the excitement. what a great start. I don't know the answer.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2017 21:27:08 GMT -5
No, there is absolutely no reason to think Sale knows what's best for himself. Players push themselves too far all the time. And there's probably no way he can know if the extra workload will affect him in October. But we know, cuz of experience and science and stuff, that it's good to rest pitchers down the stretch when you get the chance. Especially a guy who is a) your ace, and b) seems to particularly benefit from added rest. Besides which, there was nothing to gain here. There was zero upside to the decision. If it's so important to get 300 K's, let him do it in Fenway in his next start. Free will....self determination....these are hallmarks of great performances. We can disagree here. There is no proof the extra rest is needed. He has never been in this situation before. We will see when it is all said and done. Personally, and call me wacko if you will, I love guys that want to put it on the line. I don't think this had anything to do with 300 K's. I think he just wanted to stay out there. Pedro told Grady Little that he could get one more guy out too.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2017 21:28:38 GMT -5
But anyways... great win!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2017 21:28:41 GMT -5
No, there is absolutely no reason to think Sale knows what's best for himself. Players push themselves too far all the time. And there's probably no way he can know if the extra workload will affect him in October. But we know, cuz of experience and science and stuff, that it's good to rest pitchers down the stretch when you get the chance. Especially a guy who is a) your ace, and b) seems to particularly benefit from added rest. Besides which, there was nothing to gain here. There was zero upside to the decision. If it's so important to get 300 K's, let him do it in Fenway in his next start. If most pitchers had their way, they'd throw 200 pitches a game and 350 innings a year because that's how competitive the best pitchers on the planet are. The team has to limit them or there is no limit. It wasn't 200 pitches, it was 111 pitches following two sub 100 pitch games and preceding an extra days rest. I'm not a Farrell fan but there are times in any business when a good manager will take care of his underlings.
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Post by Coreno on Sept 20, 2017 21:30:09 GMT -5
Big sweep. Can clinch a playoff spot tonight if CLE beats LAA. If not, the Angels move within .5 of the 2nd wildcard. Probably prefer they take that spot after the way MIN looked in NY this week.
Final off day of the season tomorrow. I gotta say, not particularly looking forward to Porcello in Cincy.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2017 21:30:42 GMT -5
If most pitchers had their way, they'd throw 200 pitches a game and 350 innings a year because that's how competitive the best pitchers on the planet are. The team has to limit them or there is no limit. It wasn't 200 pitches, it was 111 pitches following two sub 100 pitch games and preceding an extra days rest. I'm not a Farrell fan but there are times in any business when a good manager will take care of his underlings. It was just a point that managers can't just listen to their pitchers about how they don't want to come out. They never want to come out.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 20, 2017 21:30:50 GMT -5
Great win. Stupid, stupid Farrell.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 20, 2017 21:31:49 GMT -5
Fantastic game! Love seeing the Sox bludgeon the Orioles and get revenge on them with a timely sweep.
Chris Sale was vintage Chris Sale. Congrats on 300 Ks. Awesome milestone. And excellent to see him so dominant so late in the season. This is the Chris Sale they'll need in the off-season.
Nice to see the offense explode. Hanley swung the bat well as did Betts and Marrero.
26 straight shutout innings. That is some excellent pitching. I remember the Sox throwing 3 straight shutouts against Toronto in 1990. This staff is approaching that.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 20, 2017 21:31:52 GMT -5
Let's blow up Chris Sale's arm for one more K. Good Lord, this kind of lack of judgment and poor leadership should be a suspension offense by the Front Office. yah its totally because JF is a dumbass and not possibly because SALE ASKED TO GO BACK OUT THERE Who cares? Leadership means saying no to stupid requests that put the ego above the team.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2017 21:33:02 GMT -5
Free will....self determination....these are hallmarks of great performances. We can disagree here. There is no proof the extra rest is needed. He has never been in this situation before. We will see when it is all said and done. Personally, and call me wacko if you will, I love guys that want to put it on the line. I don't think this had anything to do with 300 K's. I think he just wanted to stay out there. Pedro told Grady Little that he could get one more guy out too. and that was a playoff game against an unbelievably good team. Pedro had 2 outs and had 2 strikes on at least 2 batters. Very fair point, though, nice job.
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Post by soxfan06 on Sept 20, 2017 21:33:08 GMT -5
I don't think leaving Sale in was the worst decision Farrell has ever made.
But it wasn't smart. There was literally no reason to do it. Especially when you are blowing the other team out and are going to need to rely heavily on Sale in the postseason.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 20, 2017 21:38:24 GMT -5
Normally I'd be ticked at Farrell for sending Sale out, but I don't think it was the end of the world today.
People will look at the pitches and the wear and tear, but I look at pitches thrown under duress. There was no duress, no stress or anything like that. Sometimes 80 pitches can cause more wear and tear than 110. I think it depends on the circumstances. Normally I prefer conservative and I probably would have pulled him after 7 but the way he was cruising he probably could have gone 9 without much sweat.
That said, if the Red Sox are close to wrapping things up, I hope it's 5 and dive next start and I hope he doesn't have to start in Houston during the last series of the regular season.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2017 21:38:30 GMT -5
Great things about tonight other than the obvious things like Sale's performance and winning by 9 runs:
1. The bullpen got a rest! 2. Hanley hit the ball hard and went 3-5 with 2 doubles. 3. The Orioles looked like we literally killed their spirit. They rolled over and died. Love it, love it, love it.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 20, 2017 21:41:33 GMT -5
Watching Yankee fans complain on the Twitter machine that Showalter and the Orioles rolled over for the Red Sox is probably the greatest schadenfreude possible. It warms the deepest, coldest parts of my being.
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Post by Coreno on Sept 20, 2017 21:41:44 GMT -5
Fantastic game! Love seeing the Sox bludgeon the Orioles and get revenge on them with a timely sweep. Chris Sale was vintage Chris Sale. Congrats on 300 Ks. Awesome milestone. And excellent to see him so dominant so late in the season. This is the Chris Sale they'll need in the off-season. Nice to see the offense explode. Hanley swung the bat well as did Betts and Marrero. 26 straight shutout innings. That is some excellent pitching. I remember the Sox throwing 3 straight shutouts against Toronto in 1990. This staff is approaching that. Good point on Hanley. Not a ton of mentions for him tonight, but he had a good night after a few days off. If that allowed him to finally reset a little and heal up, it could be huge going forward.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 20, 2017 21:41:58 GMT -5
I don't think leaving Sale in was the worst decision Farrell has ever made. But it wasn't smart. There was literally no reason to do it. Especially when you are blowing the other team out and are going to need to rely heavily on Sale in the postseason. We should start to get a clearer picture of who the likely 4 starters for the playoffs will be very soon. ADD: and I wish you would fix your avatar.
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