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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 27, 2018 9:04:56 GMT -5
Its hard to make a real case to extend Smart when he's pulling this kind of stuff. The team really needs him right now too. They got a tough stretch coming up. You’re looking at this all wrong. It’s exactly the type of thing that makes it easier to extend him. Regardless, it’s clear how this is going to go. He’s restricted, so he will resign here for 1 year. Most likely we give him a big one year deal 15m+ to both keep him happy AND to give us a tradable salary. Right now the teams biggest issue on the trade market is matchable salaries. Then after next year he will hit the open market and we can resign him with bird rights. Another team will have to use cap space so his salary will be depressed because of his lack of scoring and crap like this. You're right about the one year tender. I was talking more of a long term thing. Past next year, it's harder and harder to defend keeping the guy when he's pulling this crap. He's a leader, he is tough defensively, a good passer, he makes clutch shots at times, and he is a total basketball rat on the floor. He also can't shoot (most of the time), has maturity issues at times, makes dumb turnovers at times, and flops a lot. All in all, I love who he is a player. One of the more easier guys to root for when he's making big plays at the end of games and is one of the more vocal guys on the Celtics, but it's hard to put a value on him past next year. He is looking more of a trade chip next year (as you point out) then a future asset, especially when this crap goes down. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 27, 2018 10:51:28 GMT -5
It sucks about Smart, but I'm thrilled for Rozier to take over 6th man duties. He'll get heavy minutesfor 2 weeks and he can use that right now.
As for Smart and a contract it's going to be rough. You know he looks at Crabbe and Turner and think he's better. So he'll want 70 to 80 million. The market will most likely only offer him around 4 years 40 million, full mid level money. He won't like that so I think Danny does what Rip thinks. Gives him more on a one year deal, which could set up a trade. I still have no problem with a 5 year 50 million deal, maybe up to 60 million. The problem is if you have to pick between Smart and Rozier, I would pick Rozier right now.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 27, 2018 12:57:36 GMT -5
I agree on Smart, this is just one more reason for other teams not to break the bank for him. What you suggest and have before about the contract makes all the sense in the world, the 15 million brings allot of value for a trade or in keeping him happy for a possible bird rights contract. Interesting how the CBA and all its rules leads to a situation which seems like that's smartest thing to do.
I would like to see him in Boston long term as a sixth man type. We can always hope his offensive efficiency improves and it probably will at least up to league average. He fits with the dirtdog mentality of Boston sports.
Although if it was between Smart and Rozier I guess it does make more sense to trade Smart for a need next year to get some value out of him. Not sure Rozier has more upside but these next few weeks could be telling.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2018 17:02:55 GMT -5
The problem is if you have to pick between Smart and Rozier, I would pick Rozier right now. Oh man that's a tough one. Based on potential alone, I'd pick Rozier as well. Rozier looks like a keeper and the sheer athleticism he has is ridiculous. On the other hand, Smart is a top 3 defender in the NBA and he has a stupid knack for big plays. I feel both will be overpayed and if I absolutely had to choose one to overpay, that'd be Smart. His defense is downright elite, none of what Rozier brings to the table is even close to that. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2018 21:15:43 GMT -5
Tatum needs to be more assertive, he flat out hides in the corner in some plays.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2018 22:10:09 GMT -5
Gee guys please don't play Curry too physical.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 28, 2018 10:52:47 GMT -5
Tatum needs to be more assertive, he flat out hides in the corner in some plays. That probably will come in the next few years. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 29, 2018 8:20:47 GMT -5
That probably will come in the next few years. Hopefully. It never came for Al Horford. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 29, 2018 8:47:15 GMT -5
Seems like a good time to remind people of a few things:
1. Tatum is a 19 year old rookie
2. Either their best player or close second has been injured and out all year.
3. They have 5 rookies on their roster; 3 of which play significant minutes.
4. They have one of the youngest average ages in basketball. Only teams near them are the worst teams in basketball. Young teams aren’t supposed to be good in the NBA.
5. They’ve had the most grueling schedule in basketball. Their only extended break included traveling to London. Then shortly after returning they go on an extended west coast trip. Is it any surprise they are hitting a wall all things considered?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 29, 2018 10:19:47 GMT -5
Well while Theis might be a rookie according to NBA, he's not a rookie to pro ball and it shows.
One thing that bugs me is Semi getting a bunch of playing time and Nader not getting much. Semi is good at D right now, but can't shoot or score in general. Yet he keeps playing in games where we have trouble scoring. I don't get it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 29, 2018 10:53:12 GMT -5
Well while Theis might be a rookie according to NBA, he's not a rookie to pro ball and it shows. One thing that bugs me is Semi getting a bunch of playing time and Nader not getting much. Semi is good at D right now, but can't shoot or score in general. Yet he keeps playing in games where we have trouble scoring. I don't get it. I hear ya on Theis and it’s different than the other guys but he’s still in a learning season. I would expect him to be much better next year after learning the nuances of the NBA game, but we have seen it go the other way as well. The problem with Nader is he’s looked bad/uncomfortable at both ends. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 29, 2018 11:01:36 GMT -5
I hope its Semi looks awesome in practice, just needs game time for it to translate. Kinda like the early years of Bradley. He's been good on D, but does almost nothing else. If he could just start hitting those 3s. He has a lot more to his game, but we have yet to see any of it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 29, 2018 14:37:00 GMT -5
Doing my daily boxscore search and Randle has another big game against the Raptors. A team that is very big and gives us issues. 25 minutes 5-11, 7-8 FT, 10 rebounds (4 offensive), 5 assists, 1 TO and 17 points.
Last 8 games 16.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.8 assists, while shooting 56.4% in 26.7 minutes.
He is the absolute perfect fit. Would give up our first this year in two seconds for him. Him being restricted next year is huge. He also could be a fit long-term. Maybe I'm going crazy, but I would even sweeten the deal if needed with guys like Nader or maybe even Yabu.
Marcus Morris is doing his normal thing on D and is having his best season rebounding which is nice. Thing is his current role of trying to create is horrible for him. He can do it, but his efficiency is horrible. It would have to be separate, but if you get Randle, ship Morris and lets say Nader for Clarkson. Gives the Laker more room and a contract that would be a lot easier to move. Clarkson adds the true bench scorer we need and a guy that can create. It would also make the Lakers horrible. Clarkson is the anti Smart and Rozier, which is what we really need. It adds salary, but only two more years and we are maxed out those years. Crazy and very unrealistic, but adding Randle and Clarkson would totally change this team. Give it the firepower to compete with anyone. Makes a deep team even deeper. Also grabs two young players the Lakers for some reason want to dump, when they should be long-term pieces.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 29, 2018 16:23:30 GMT -5
Seems like a good time to remind people of a few things: 1. Tatum is a 19 year old rookie 2. Either their best player or close second has been injured and out all year. 3. They have 5 rookies on their roster; 3 of which play significant minutes. 4. They have one of the youngest average ages in basketball. Only teams near them are the worst teams in basketball. Young teams aren’t supposed to be good in the NBA. 5. They’ve had the most grueling schedule in basketball. Their only extended break included traveling to London. Then shortly after returning they go on an extended west coast trip. Is it any surprise they are hitting a wall all things considered? Oh I know, it's not my intention to sound like I'm down on the Celtics and I repeatedly praised their success for such a young team. It's incredible. There are some issues here and there, but they just played an incredibly competitive game against the best team in basketball, everything is awesome. I don't think Tatum's problem is due to him being young or a rookie, it's kind of his style and he needs to loosen up somewhat. Some guys never do and Tatum is too talented for that. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 29, 2018 16:37:10 GMT -5
Seems like a good time to remind people of a few things: 1. Tatum is a 19 year old rookie 2. Either their best player or close second has been injured and out all year. 3. They have 5 rookies on their roster; 3 of which play significant minutes. 4. They have one of the youngest average ages in basketball. Only teams near them are the worst teams in basketball. Young teams aren’t supposed to be good in the NBA. 5. They’ve had the most grueling schedule in basketball. Their only extended break included traveling to London. Then shortly after returning they go on an extended west coast trip. Is it any surprise they are hitting a wall all things considered? Oh I know, it's not my intention to sound like I'm down on the Celtics and I repeatedly praised their success for such a young team. It's incredible. There are some issues here and there, but they just played an incredibly competitive game against the best team in basketball, everything is awesome. I don't think Tatum's problem is due to him being young or a rookie, it's kind of his style and he needs to loosen up somewhat. Some guys never do and Tatum is too talented for that. He has a long stride but do you guys think a lack of quick-twitch or explosiveness is a factor?..He's not Jalen Brown for instance. |
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Post by jmei on Jan 29, 2018 17:40:25 GMT -5
You don't need to be an elite quick-twitch athlete to be able to create your own shot. Paul Pierce was never the most explosive athlete, for instance, and neither are guys like Carmelo Anthony or Danny Granger (guys who Tatum has been compared to). That said, Tatum is a good but not great athlete, and while his feel for the game is more advanced than most rookies, to reach his full potential, he'll need to improve his ball-handling and strength. He can attack guys off a close-out, but his handle isn't strong enough to take guys off the dribble consistently yet, nor does he have much of a post game or the ability to draw and finish through contact yet. But he's 19 and that stuff will come. It's not fair to him to expect him to be more than a supporting piece on offense at this point in his career.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 29, 2018 18:11:49 GMT -5
Tatum at 19 and with a frame that begs for some bulk is just scratching the surface of what he will become, patience is a virtue. Two years from now at 21 he will be a beast!!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 29, 2018 19:40:00 GMT -5
Blake Griffin to Pistons for Harris, Bradley and first round pick. Not sure I get this trade for the Clippers, seems like a great trade for Pistons.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 29, 2018 20:10:02 GMT -5
You don't need to be an elite quick-twitch athlete to be able to create your own shot. Paul Pierce was never the most explosive athlete, for instance, and neither are guys like Carmelo Anthony or Danny Granger (guys who Tatum has been compared to). That said, Tatum is a good but not great athlete, and while his feel for the game is more advanced than most rookies, to reach his full potential, he'll need to improve his ball-handling and strength. He can attack guys off a close-out, but his handle isn't strong enough to take guys off the dribble consistently yet, nor does he have much of a post game or the ability to draw and finish through contact yet. But he's 19 and that stuff will come. It's not fair to him to expect him to be more than a supporting piece on offense at this point in his career. You may be right. OTOH the NBA is getting quicker and more athletic by the day. I wonder about Tatum's long term upside. Admittedly he is "mature" beyond his age. If we trade for any of the various big men deemed'possibles'this year, pundits suggest one of Brown or Tatum would need to be included. If so, which one goes/stays? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 29, 2018 21:39:46 GMT -5
Blake Griffin to Pistons for Harris, Bradley and first round pick. Not sure I get this trade for the Clippers, seems like a great trade for Pistons. Harris is a very good player, this trade would make sense if they were getting another young guy and then moving Harris at the deadline. Maybe Kennard as well in there, but just Bradley? The only reason why I don't think it's that bad is because Griffin is seriously declining, his body looks toast and the numbers back it up. I'm glad Danny avoided that contract. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 29, 2018 22:40:22 GMT -5
God forbid this team ever plays well with a lead.
I know everyone makes a run in the NBA, but it’s ridiculous how quickly they blew that lead.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 29, 2018 22:50:20 GMT -5
Denver has 43 second-half points in 13:30, lol.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 29, 2018 23:04:47 GMT -5
Rozier is inheriting that thing about hitting huge WTF shots at key moments from Smart. At times he looks like he's just about ready for his breakout season.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 29, 2018 23:26:09 GMT -5
Great win! Huge shot by JB there near the end.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 29, 2018 23:29:43 GMT -5
Blake Griffin to Pistons for Harris, Bradley and first round pick. Not sure I get this trade for the Clippers, seems like a great trade for Pistons. Harris is a very good player, this trade would make sense if they were getting another young guy and then moving Harris at the deadline. Maybe Kennard as well in there, but just Bradley? The only reason why I don't think it's that bad is because Griffin is seriously declining, his body looks toast and the numbers back it up. I'm glad Danny avoided that contract. You would think they get a Kennard, Johnson, heck even a Ellison young player, no just a pick. I mean I guess you hope Griffin goes down? Harris is an OK player, but two more years, Bradley probaly gets bought out, and They take on Bobans contract. Even with no Jordan and Bradley they are capped out next year. Still enough talent where they likely aren't a true bottom team. I don't get it, unless they get lucky. I would assume the Pistons now add another guard. If they do I really like that team. That's a team that could really hurt us. Gamble with Griffins health, but a great risk for Pistons in my opinion. Not sure Griffin is declining, just the difference of him playing without Chris Paul. Pistons should have got Lou Williams also, perfect for them. You have to surround Drummond with scorers and let him anchor the D. |
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