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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 30, 2018 3:51:16 GMT -5
Why would the Clippers buy out Bradley?
If that's the case then welcome back to Boston, Avery.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 30, 2018 3:55:57 GMT -5
Harris is a very good player, this trade would make sense if they were getting another young guy and then moving Harris at the deadline. Maybe Kennard as well in there, but just Bradley? The only reason why I don't think it's that bad is because Griffin is seriously declining, his body looks toast and the numbers back it up. I'm glad Danny avoided that contract. You would think they get a Kennard, Johnson, heck even a Ellison young player, no just a pick. I mean I guess you hope Griffin goes down? Harris is an OK player, but two more years, Bradley probaly gets bought out, and They take on Bobans contract. Even with no Jordan and Bradley they are capped out next year. Still enough talent where they likely aren't a true bottom |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 30, 2018 7:33:52 GMT -5
Rozier is inheriting that thing about hitting huge WTF shots at key moments from Smart. At times he looks like he's just about ready for his breakout season. I’m pretty sold on him as one of the main bench pieces going forward. I like Smart, but if you can keep Rozier around long-term for cheaper, I think that’s the move. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 30, 2018 8:47:11 GMT -5
You would think they get a Kennard, Johnson, heck even a Ellison young player, no just a pick. I mean I guess you hope Griffin goes down? Harris is an OK player, but two more years, Bradley probaly gets bought out, and They take on Bobans contract. Even with no Jordan and Bradley they are capped out next year. Still enough talent where they likely aren't a true bottom team. I don't get it, unless they get lucky. I would assume the Pistons now add another guard. If they do I really like that team. That's a team that could really hurt us. Gamble with Griffins health, but a great risk for Pistons in my opinion. Not sure Griffin is declining, just the difference of him playing without Chris Paul. Pistons should have got Lou Williams also, perfect for them. You have to surround Drummond with scorers and let him anchor the D. I get that and I think it was a bad trade for the Clippers. However, I don't think Griffin's decline is only due to Paul's departure, he's taking a lot of 3s and not making them which tells me that he either has a terrible coach or he's not taking it to the rim as frequently and settling instead. The main thing that gives me pause with Griffin is his body, he looks off for a basketball player, not unlike Sullinger when you just looked at him and could see that would not work out nice in the long term. Sullinger probably never saw a Burger King he didn't like, but for Griffin maybe it's the injuries taking its toll and that makes me think he's a time bomb. But you're right, it's not a good trade for the Clippers at all. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 30, 2018 9:39:29 GMT -5
Why would the Clippers buy out Bradley? If that's the case then welcome back to Boston, Avery. I assumed that type of trade meant a rebuild, hence you gut team and try to lose as many games. So you won't resign Bradley, so you buy him out. Yet since my comments, reports have come out they could trade him again. Which I didn't think was allowed, thought you had to wait months. I don't know, maybe if he doesn't play? |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 30, 2018 9:41:15 GMT -5
I like the trade more for the Clippers than for the Pistons. The Clippers weren't going anywhere with Griffin and I don't think Griffin is worth a max contract. They shouldn't have given him one in the first place but at least they were able to get out from under that blunder. I don't get it for the Pistons, they are now basically the Clippers only in the East with Drummond being very similar to Jordan and nothing surrounding Blake and Drummond. Now they have no cap space to go out and improve the team in free agency and not much for trade chips as they don't have their draft pick this year which will possible be a lottery pick and worst case just outside the lottery. The one thing I don't like about the deal for the Clippers is the optics of trading a guy they just signed to a max deal the prior offseason. At the time of the signing they were saying they wanted to build around him and that he is one of the great Clippers of all time. If I am a top flight free agent I am not signing with the Clippers without a no trade clause as they kind of just screwed over Griffin by dealing him to Detroit.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 30, 2018 9:46:12 GMT -5
You would think they get a Kennard, Johnson, heck even a Ellison young player, no just a pick. I mean I guess you hope Griffin goes down? Harris is an OK player, but two more years, Bradley probaly gets bought out, and They take on Bobans contract. Even with no Jordan and Bradley they are capped out next year. Still enough talent where they likely aren't a true bottom Okay, lets just overlook why in the world LeBron would want to play on a team with no Griffin, Jordan, Williams, etc. Even moving Jordan, Williams and Bradley doesn't give them max space next year. So I don't buy that report one bit. If LeBron wants LA, the Lakers can add two max players and have young guys like Kuzma and Ball. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 30, 2018 9:59:14 GMT -5
I like the trade more for the Clippers than for the Pistons. The Clippers weren't going anywhere with Griffin and I don't think Griffin is worth a max contract. They shouldn't have given him one in the first place but at least they were able to get out from under that blunder. I don't get it for the Pistons, they are now basically the Clippers only in the East with Drummond being very similar to Jordan and nothing surrounding Blake and Drummond. Now they have no cap space to go out and improve the team in free agency and not much for trade chips as they don't have their draft pick this year which will possible be a lottery pick and worst case just outside the lottery. The one thing I don't like about the deal for the Clippers is the optics of trading a guy they just signed to a max deal the prior offseason. At the time of the signing they were saying they wanted to build around him and that he is one of the great Clippers of all time. If I am a top flight free agent I am not signing with the Clippers without a no trade clause as they kind of just screwed over Griffin by dealing him to Detroit. That's the thing the Pistons couldn't get cap space for years. So they didn't lose anything for the next couple years anyway. The Pistons also have some young talent that I really like. They didn't need more young players. Rumors they are after Rodney Hood, who would be perfect. They need to add a scoring shooting guard now, if they do, I really like that team. That's a team that could make some noise in the playoffs. If Griffin can stay healthy, that's the risk. I mean, they would be like the Clippers a good team that can't win a title, but for Detriot that's a massive upgrade. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 30, 2018 10:11:12 GMT -5
I like the trade more for the Clippers than for the Pistons. The Clippers weren't going anywhere with Griffin and I don't think Griffin is worth a max contract. They shouldn't have given him one in the first place but at least they were able to get out from under that blunder. I don't get it for the Pistons, they are now basically the Clippers only in the East with Drummond being very similar to Jordan and nothing surrounding Blake and Drummond. Now they have no cap space to go out and improve the team in free agency and not much for trade chips as they don't have their draft pick this year which will possible be a lottery pick and worst case just outside the lottery. The one thing I don't like about the deal for the Clippers is the optics of trading a guy they just signed to a max deal the prior offseason. At the time of the signing they were saying they wanted to build around him and that he is one of the great Clippers of all time. If I am a top flight free agent I am not signing with the Clippers without a no trade clause as they kind of just screwed over Griffin by dealing him to Detroit. That's the thing the Pistons couldn't get cap space for years. So they didn't lose anything for the next couple years anyway. The Pistons also have some young talent that I really like. They didn't need more young players. Rumors they are after Rodney Hood, who would be perfect. They need to add a scoring shooting guard now, if they do, I really like that team. That's a team that could make some noise in the playoffs. If Griffin can stay healthy, that's the risk. I mean, they would be like the Clippers a good team that can't win a title, but for Detriot that's a massive upgrade. It will sell tickets for the Pistons but Griffin on a max deal for the remainder of that contract in my opinion is not going to end well. In the East I guess I could see them upsetting a team in the first round but I could also see them missing out on the playoffs and not having any way to get any better this coming offseason with no draft picks or cap space. To me this reeks of Stan Van Gundy making a last ditch effort to save his job in Detroit by going all in with Griffin. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 30, 2018 10:32:07 GMT -5
They didn't have cap space, so I don't get why you keep bringing that up. By my account, they wouldn't have had cap space for 3 years till the Jackson and Harris deals ended and guys like Boban came off. So it boils down to one first round pick that is currently late lottery. Jackson is due back from injury soon, they will add another guard, reports have them in on a few players. Unless Griffin gets injured, I don't see them not making playoffs. Injuries are the main reason they have tanked recently. Jackson went down, Bradley has a groin issue that has limited him. We'll see what happens. I just think your putting way too much stock in a late lottery to mid first round pick. Yes you can get a good player, but more likely you get a solid player. Not the type that would do much to move the needle for the Pistons. Better chance a guy like Stanley Johnson steps up or Kennard in my opinion. It is a risk,but a good one in my opinion. Either this or a full on rebuild.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 30, 2018 11:20:43 GMT -5
They didn't have cap space, so I don't get why you keep bringing that up. By my account, they wouldn't have had cap space for 3 years till the Jackson and Harris deals ended and guys like Boban came off. So it boils down to one first round pick that is currently late lottery. Jackson is due back from injury soon, they will add another guard, reports have them in on a few players. Unless Griffin gets injured, I don't see them not making playoffs. Injuries are the main reason they have tanked recently. Jackson went down, Bradley has a groin issue that has limited him. We'll see what happens. I just think your putting way too much stock in a late lottery to mid first round pick. Yes you can get a good player, but more likely you get a solid player. Not the type that would do much to move the needle for the Pistons. Better chance a guy like Stanley Johnson steps up or Kennard in my opinion. It is a risk,but a good one in my opinion. Either this or a full on rebuild. Harris has one year left after this one at a little bit under 15 million and Jackson has two years at 17 and 18 million, I think they could have moved those contracts pretty easily to try and rebuild. In my mind the NBA is a league where it is worse to be a mid level playoff team with no hopes of winning a title than to just blow it up and rebuild for year or two. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 30, 2018 17:57:49 GMT -5
He does have one year left, was looking at this year also. Doesn't change anything though, as you have to resign him or replace him. Pistons haven't signed a really good free agent since 2002, with Billups. Hence why they made the Griffin trade. No offence, but rebuilding is very hard. Yes Danny made it look easy, but just look at the teams that spend decades rebuilding. Nevermind I don't think you rebuild when you have a young Drummond type player. They kept all there good young players and Griffin only cost one first round pick. So they haven't sold out completely. The bigger issue might be they need a new coach.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 9:11:49 GMT -5
Dewayne Dedmon for Aron Baynes, Nader and the Clippers 1st, who says no?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5
Dewayne Dedmon for Aron Baynes, Nader and the Clippers 1st, who says no? Me, Danny, the whole front office and no one involved with the Hawks. In my opinion Dedmon isn't even close to a big enough of an upgrade to give up a first round pick, nevermind the Clips pick. More like a second round pick or a guy like Nader. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 10:26:44 GMT -5
Me, Danny, the whole front office and no one involved with the Hawks. In my opinion Dedmon isn't even close to a big enough of an upgrade to give up a first round pick, nevermind the Clips pick. More like a second round pick or a guy like Nader. Unless I'm mistaken here, the Clips pick is lottery protected for 2 drafts and then it becomes a second rounder if it isn't conveyed by then. The Clippers suck and I doubt they will be making the playoffs in that timespan, which means that the pick isn't very valuable since it's essentially a second rounder. And Dedmon is a considerable upgrade over Baynes, his per 36 numbers are bonkers. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2018 14:30:51 GMT -5
Irving's lack of durability shows up again tonight. He is out tonight.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2018 17:19:02 GMT -5
Me, Danny, the whole front office and no one involved with the Hawks. In my opinion Dedmon isn't even close to a big enough of an upgrade to give up a first round pick, nevermind the Clips pick. More like a second round pick or a guy like Nader. Unless I'm mistaken here, the Clips pick is lottery protected for 2 drafts and then it becomes a second rounder if it isn't conveyed by then. The Clippers suck and I doubt they will be making the playoffs in that timespan, which means that the pick isn't very valuable since it's essentially a second rounder. And Dedmon is a considerable upgrade over Baynes, his per 36 numbers are bonkers. The pick is protected top 14 in 2019 and 2020. Doc has said the team isn't having a fire sale and rebuilding. Other articles have said they plan on retooling like the Celtics. Let's see how they handle Jordan and Williams bofore just saying they have no shot. Part of the reason I didn't like the trade for the Clips is only a first round pick, but also they got back talent like Harris, Boban, to go along with Gallinari, Jordan, Williams, and Bradley. Who knows what they do with those guys now. That is almost the perfect type team for Doc to over achieve with. They have some decent young talent that they got from Houston in the Chris Paul trade. Depending on what happens by the deadline, that pick might have increased in value in my eyes. At first I thought it was a given that a guy like Bradley was gone, but now maybe they resign him. Lot of moving parts still to really have any clue how good they will be for 2019 and 2020. Per 36 minutes are kinda crazy, he'll never come close to that. Still Baynes averages over a double double per 36 minutes. Dedmon is the better rebounder, but it's 18.8% vs 15.5 % total rebounding. Dedmons numbers have gone down with more playing time. He's not at 21.1 % like he was last year, but that was far and away his career high. I don't think you get any upgrade scoring wise, just Dedmon getting extra points on a crappy team. So for a team who's biggest weakness is scoring, I don't see a big upgrade. Just a better rebounding Baynes basically and our need is a big that is different than Baynes. Our issues are the games Baynes doesn't match up against the other team, because they play small ball. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 19:02:04 GMT -5
The pick is protected top 14 in 2019 and 2020. Doc has said the team isn't having a fire sale and rebuilding. Other articles have said they plan on retooling like the Celtics. Let's see how they handle Jordan and Williams bofore just saying they have no shot. Part of the reason I didn't like the trade for the Clips is only a first round pick, but also they got back talent like Harris, Boban, to go along with Gallinari, Jordan, Williams, and Bradley. Who knows what they do with those guys now. That is almost the perfect type team for Doc to over achieve with. They have some decent young talent that they got from Houston in the Chris Paul trade. Depending on what happens by the deadline, that pick might have increased in value in my eyes. At first I thought it was a given that a guy like Bradley was gone, but now maybe they resign him. Lot of moving parts still to really have any clue how good they will be for 2019 and 2020. Per 36 minutes are kinda crazy, he'll never come close to that. Still Baynes averages over a double double per 36 minutes. Dedmon is the better rebounder, but it's 18.8% vs 15.5 % total rebounding. Dedmons numbers have gone down with more playing time. He's not at 21.1 % like he was last year, but that was far and away his career high. I don't think you get any upgrade scoring wise, just Dedmon getting extra points on a crappy team. So for a team who's biggest weakness is scoring, I don't see a big upgrade. Just a better rebounding Baynes basically and our need is a big that is different than Baynes. Our issues are the games Baynes doesn't match up against the other team, because they play small ball. Maybe you're right, we'll see. I think the level of talent on the Clippers is atrocious and with all due respect to Doc, I don't think he can rebuild that team. However, the NBA is very top heavy right now and pretty bad teams might make the playoffs as the 7-8 seeds regularly, so you do have a point. Baynes looks pretty much like a statue lately, he started the year pretty hot but he looks slow out there and his shot is gone. He's a very good defender and he rebounds well enough, but the main position the Celtics would really need an upgrade is the 5. Yeah a scorer out of the bench would be nice as well, but Lou and Evans would probably cost a lot more. You're either underrating Dedmon or I'm overrating him, but he really impressed me when I watched him. I really think he could play the Baynes role and be much better at it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2018 20:06:53 GMT -5
For me it comes down to the pick. If you are like me and think if things go right you have a chance at a pick right after the lottery, Dedmon is crazy bad value. If you think it's a 2nd round pick all day long, it's not bad value.
I think Dedmon is an upgrade, just not a big one. I don't see him helping you win a series you would otherwise lose. Also Danny never likes to make a ton of moves because he values chemistry. So for me if we give up a first round pick, it's for Williams or Randle. Those guys could be game changers.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 21:49:48 GMT -5
The ref that didn't call a foul on that Morris play should be fired like right now, he shouldn't even finish the game. The NBA should really hold these guys accountable.
EDIT: AND STEVENS GOT A MOTHERF*CKING T ON THAT TOO? Fire everyone on the crew Jesus Christ.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2018 22:13:46 GMT -5
Terry Rozier 1st start, first career triple double. He is running a great offense, one of the better ones this year. Guys going to the hole, Rozier driving and passing. Good stuff.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 22:22:40 GMT -5
I know the Knicks are bad and all but that was some intense and beautiful defense being played tonight. Just awesome to watch.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2018 22:28:09 GMT -5
Greg Monroe officially bought out in Phoenix.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2018 22:31:04 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2018 22:32:22 GMT -5
Greg Monroe officially bought out in Phoenix. Just saw that, very interesting. Not the perfect fit, but he costs only money. Would be a great addition. |
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