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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 2, 2018 16:52:04 GMT -5
I didn’t realize the Celtics could break up the DPA money. So they used 5m on Monroe which leaves them just enough to absorb Evans. If they use it on Evans then no players can go from the Celtics which means they’d just send a pick; likely their first this year. I think once one uses the DPA on a player, that precludes using any overage on another player. OTOH, I think paying only 5M for Monroe, keeps us safely about 4M under the cap. But maybe we are saying the same thing. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2018 18:58:34 GMT -5
I don't even know who's the backup point guard for tonight's game.
All of Irving, Larkin, Morris, and Smart are out for tonight's game. The Celtics are going in tonight with 10 players.
Luckily they are playing Atlanta.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 2, 2018 19:04:23 GMT -5
Any suggestion that Evans is not a good shooter is a bit misleading. Yes his career 3 pt % is at 31 but as the league has evolved, he has gotten better. In 3 of the past 5 years he has been 39% or better and his carrier shooting % is 47% from 2 and 44.5 overall. Not too shabby......Oh yeah...and he's 6'6". He is also 28 and prime. Using those stats is misleading because those 3 seasons aren't even close to full years. Last 5 years 22.1, 30.4, 38.8 in 25 games, 35.6 in 40 games, and 39.2 in 46 games. In 2016-2017 in 26 games for NO he was 30%, and 43.8 in 14 games for Kings. It was litterally 14 good games. Over the last 10 games he has attempted 6.2 3s per game and shot 29%. You can not worry about his shooting all you want, it's an issue. I've read articles litterally predicting he is more likely than not to go back to his career norms, using the last 10 games to show it is currently already happening. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 2, 2018 19:25:21 GMT -5
I don't even know who's the backup point guard for tonight's game. All of Irving, Larkin, Morris, and Smart are out for tonight's game. The Celtics are going in tonight with 10 players. Luckily they are playing Atlanta. Same as last game, it's Rozier show. Right, last game had no Irving, Larkin or Smart? Rozier went off for a tripple double. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2018 19:33:34 GMT -5
I don't even know who's the backup point guard for tonight's game. All of Irving, Larkin, Morris, and Smart are out for tonight's game. The Celtics are going in tonight with 10 players. Luckily they are playing Atlanta. Same as last game, it's Rozier show. Right, last game had no Irving, Larkin or Smart? Rozier went off for a tripple double. No Morris either tonight though. Morris was running point forward at times last night. I don't know who is handling the ball off the bench tonight. It'll be interesting to say the least. A lot of minutes by all the starters tonight. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 2, 2018 19:55:09 GMT -5
Williams is a good offensive player, but a really bad defensive player. You can’t play him alongside Kyrie, and part of the reason they’ve been so good defensively is that they don’t have any bad defensive players other than Kyrie. He’s also not a great fit for the system— has never been a good off-ball player, for instance. Despite being a good volume scorer this year, his efficiency isn’t great (he does get to the line a lot, which is nice) and is propped up by an unsustainably high 3P%. He’d be an upgrade, but not a material one. His efficiency isn't great? What? He has a 22.3 PER, only Irving at 24.6 is better, next up is Horford at 18.7. You can make a case he should run the show and Irving play off the ball. Watching Rozier run the Celtics offense just shows you Irving can't run our offense. He almost never passes when driving. He is a great scorer, but he's not a PG. Starting Brown at SG helps our D, but he doesn't create for anyone but himself. Williams actually gets his teammates involved. Rozier creating allowed Horford to actually look to score. Was the most post scoring i've seen him do this year. For a team that goes stretches not being able to score, why is downgrading the D an issue if it allows you to score? Great D is awesome, but if you can't score you don't have the right mix of players. Not many players can play 20 minutes and score 20 points, Williams is one of those players. Sure not a perfect fit, but most likely the best bench scorer you can get. We have two great defensive guards, I don't see why we need another one. We need an offensive guard. We go offensive defensive with Baynes at end of games, you could use Smart and Williams the same way. Gives you another weapon. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 2, 2018 20:07:14 GMT -5
HELL YEAH, that's a very good signing. Monroe is a very skilled player and although he obviously can't play in every single line-up, I have no doubt President Stevens will use him well. I'm very, very happy about this as I thought the team needed a legit big and Monroe is better than Baynes and readier than Theis. Now go get Evans (for cheap) and just overpower teams with size. Gotta say I'm with you. I can now stop my year and half campaign for another big. Ever since Sullinger left. He cost nothing but money and can give us a completely different look. Just another weapon for Stevens. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2018 20:33:39 GMT -5
HELL YEAH, that's a very good signing. Monroe is a very skilled player and although he obviously can't play in every single line-up, I have no doubt President Stevens will use him well. I'm very, very happy about this as I thought the team needed a legit big and Monroe is better than Baynes and readier than Theis. Now go get Evans (for cheap) and just overpower teams with size. Gotta say I'm with you. I can now stop my year and half campaign for another big. Ever since Sullinger left. He cost nothing but money and can give us a completely different look. Just another weapon for Stevens. Yeah real interested with what Stevens can do with a true big that isn't a scoring threat. He's never really had a player like this to coach since he joined the Celtics. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2018 21:48:14 GMT -5
What Rozier has been doing while starting in these two games versus these bad teams has been eye popping. I hope it's more real than fiction considering the competition, but we will see.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2018 21:54:50 GMT -5
I’m not sure Williams or Evans really moves the needle all that much. It gives them a better chance of getting out of the East, but not by a significant amount, and they’d still be big underdogs against whoever comes out of the West. If the cost is spare parts (Yabu, Nader, second rounders), that’s fine, but I doubt that’s enough and I’d hesitate to give up a first-round pick for a rental that doesn’t materially improve their championship odds. Any small margine shouldn't be under-sold though. Making the NBA finals is no small feat, especially against LeBron. Anything could happen in the finals, injuries and whatever. There's only one team to fear out of the West really (we all know who). I think the Celtics can match up with any other team from the West. I don't think Ainge will do a bad deal (he never does), but I think a move is necessary to help this team. There's some players with durability issues (Kyrie, Morris) and the marginal gain could turn into a big gain with injuries and time off for these players. Umass likes Williams, I like Evans, the one thing we can both agree is that the Celtics should land one of these two players pre trade deadline. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 2, 2018 22:12:29 GMT -5
Any suggestion that Evans is not a good shooter is a bit misleading. Yes his career 3 pt % is at 31 but as the league has evolved, he has gotten better. In 3 of the past 5 years he has been 39% or better and his carrier shooting % is 47% from 2 and 44.5 overall. Not too shabby......Oh yeah...and he's 6'6". He is also 28 and prime. His size is the main thing for me. I love Lou Williams as a player, but he's kind of a small dude and he could take some playing time from Rozier (who has been a revelation in the past 2 games) or Smart and that's not good, Evans could take minutes from Semi and that's good. Obviously Stevens could work it out and add Lou to the mix with no problems, but defensively it just makes more sense to have Evans there. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 3, 2018 3:45:30 GMT -5
Love the Monroe signing, now lets go get Evans! I don't care if it involves a late first rd pick. The C's can be very competitive and it could come down to depth in the long run.
You all know who gets overlooked for his coaching? Yes Brad Stevens! Name one player who played better when not coached by BS? How long is the list of players who looked their best when he was their coach? Funny how the Cavaliers are now finding out the hard way. I would not be afraid of players coming hear and underachieving, BS has a way of getting the most out of players.
DA and BS are a pretty formidable duo!
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 3, 2018 9:04:58 GMT -5
Love the Monroe signing, now lets go get Evans! I don't care if it involves a late first rd pick. The C's can be very competitive and it could come down to depth in the long run. You all know who gets overlooked for his coaching? Yes Brad Stevens! Name one player who played better when not coached by BS? How long is the list of players who looked their best when he was their coach? Funny how the Cavaliers are now finding out the hard way. I would not be afraid of players coming hear and underachieving, BS has a way of getting the most out of players. DA and BS are a pretty formidable duo! Agreed about Stevens. President Stevens is the second best coach in the NBA just behind Pop. Kerr is a formidable coach as well, but Stevens is just ridiculous and he's such a calm presence. Getting rid of Doc and getting Stevens is right up there with the KG trade as the best move yet by Danny. |
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Post by jmei on Feb 3, 2018 9:33:07 GMT -5
Williams is a good offensive player, but a really bad defensive player. You can’t play him alongside Kyrie, and part of the reason they’ve been so good defensively is that they don’t have any bad defensive players other than Kyrie. He’s also not a great fit for the system— has never been a good off-ball player, for instance. Despite being a good volume scorer this year, his efficiency isn’t great (he does get to the line a lot, which is nice) and is propped up by an unsustainably high 3P%. He’d be an upgrade, but not a material one. His efficiency isn't great? What? He has a 22.3 PER, only Irving at 24.6 is better, next up is Horford at 18.7. You can make a case he should run the show and Irving play off the ball. Watching Rozier run the Celtics offense just shows you Irving can't run our offense. He almost never passes when driving. He is a great scorer, but he's not a PG. Starting Brown at SG helps our D, but he doesn't create for anyone but himself. Williams actually gets his teammates involved. Rozier creating allowed Horford to actually look to score. Was the most post scoring i've seen him do this year. For a team that goes stretches not being able to score, why is downgrading the D an issue if it allows you to score? Great D is awesome, but if you can't score you don't have the right mix of players. Not many players can play 20 minutes and score 20 points, Williams is one of those players. Sure not a perfect fit, but most likely the best bench scorer you can get. We have two great defensive guards, I don't see why we need another one. We need an offensive guard. We go offensive defensive with Baynes at end of games, you could use Smart and Williams the same way. Gives you another weapon. Despite its name, PER is a stat that overvalues shooting volume relative to efficiency and is often criticized on that basis (see, e.g., here). Yes, Williams would improve their offense, but he would hurt their defense, which means his net impact would not be significant and is not worth giving up a first round pick+ for. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 3, 2018 11:37:05 GMT -5
His efficiency isn't great? What? He has a 22.3 PER, only Irving at 24.6 is better, next up is Horford at 18.7. You can make a case he should run the show and Irving play off the ball. Watching Rozier run the Celtics offense just shows you Irving can't run our offense. He almost never passes when driving. He is a great scorer, but he's not a PG. Starting Brown at SG helps our D, but he doesn't create for anyone but himself. Williams actually gets his teammates involved. Rozier creating allowed Horford to actually look to score. Was the most post scoring i've seen him do this year. For a team that goes stretches not being able to score, why is downgrading the D an issue if it allows you to score? Great D is awesome, but if you can't score you don't have the right mix of players. Not many players can play 20 minutes and score 20 points, Williams is one of those players. Sure not a perfect fit, but most likely the best bench scorer you can get. We have two great defensive guards, I don't see why we need another one. We need an offensive guard. We go offensive defensive with Baynes at end of games, you could use Smart and Williams the same way. Gives you another weapon. Despite its name, PER is a stat that overvalues shooting volume relative to efficiency and is often criticized on that basis (see, e.g., here). Yes, Williams would improve their offense, but he would hurt their defense, which means his net impact would not be significant and is not worth giving up a first round pick+ for. PER basically measures counting stats, not an end all stat, but still very useful. So for the last two years you think Williams was inefficient? Based on what? His shooting percentages are very good and his great Free Throw shooting along with tons of attemps just increase his efficiency. Just look at his eFG% and true shooting percentage. He's not great defensively, but rates #1 in offensive efficiency and 14th in real plus minus amoung SGs. If you don't think that is significant, ok I guess. Add in that on our second unit you can surround him with defenders, even if you play him with Irving you can surround them with 3 really good defenders. Is he worth a first plus more? You can really debate that. My point is if you're giving up a first for Evans, then I prefer Williams. I'd take Evans if the cost is significantly less. Which frankly knowing Danny is why he probably goes after Evans. Add in the saving on salary and it makes sense. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 3, 2018 14:41:06 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 3, 2018 15:51:10 GMT -5
Woj reporting Celtics would explore trading Smart if a first round pick was in the deal and they didn’t have to take back bad money in return.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 3, 2018 18:41:59 GMT -5
I wonder who the fallback guys are. We can hope we get one, but I don't think it's a given. Heck I would be surprised if we did, Danny loves his picks. Mudiay and a second is a very strong offer.
Openly shopping Smart is interesting. I only see one fit in the Thunder, but maybe a surprise team values him. Not sure I see the point in trading him for a late first round pick.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 3, 2018 20:55:39 GMT -5
I wonder who the fallback guys are. We can hope we get one, but I don't think it's a given. Heck I would be surprised if we did, Danny loves his picks. Mudiay and a second is a very strong offer. Openly shopping Smart is interesting. I only see one fit in the Thunder, but maybe a surprise team values him. Not sure I see the point in trading him for a late first round pick. Portland was speculated as a fit to go with DL and CJ |
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 3, 2018 21:30:42 GMT -5
Ok but whither LW or TE Brute'?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 4, 2018 5:07:09 GMT -5
I wonder who the fallback guys are. We can hope we get one, but I don't think it's a given. Heck I would be surprised if we did, Danny loves his picks. Mudiay and a second is a very strong offer. Openly shopping Smart is interesting. I only see one fit in the Thunder, but maybe a surprise team values him. Not sure I see the point in trading him for a late first round pick. Portland was speculated as a fit to go with DL and CJ Ok that makes some sense. I can see them paying a first, looking for a missing piece to take them up another notch. Which Smart could do. Noah Vonleh was my number 3 pick, behind Smart and Randle 4 years ago. Super raw, but massive upside. He's still just 22 and reports say they are open to trading him. He's a big that can rebound and shoot. Vonleh and a first makes some sense. Still is this Danny sending a message, like what he did with Sullinger? Or is Danny just ready to move on? While Vonleh and a first might be close to fair value, it doesn't help you much if at all this year. Vonleh while slowly improving, still seems raw. Maybe Stevens can get him ready for next year, but that's about it. At the same time maybe this is about Rozier more than Smart. Seems crystal clear that Rozier has more upside and deserves more minutes. Was worried Williams or Evans would take his minutes, maybe Danny is thinking they take Smarts minutes instead. Just surprised because up to this point Danny has always acted like Smart was part of the long-term plan, a core piece. Now this, which is very shocking really. At the same time, the Celtics don't leak things unless they want it known. So I keep coming back to this is Danny sending a message to Smart. This is your last chance, knock off the BS and grow up. Thank God for Rozier, because Smarts timing was Horrible, down to 1 of 4 PGs. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 4, 2018 8:04:35 GMT -5
It does seem like Danny is sending a message and to be honest Smart deserves it. His intensity on the floor is an attribute but off the floor it obviously isn't.
Danny could be thinking that if he gets an extra 1st rd pick for Smart then he can send out the C's 1st for Evans or Williams, I would prefer Evans.
Either way as we discussed last week Rozier has taken the bull by the horns with his play and that is great for the team!! Impressive for the C's to win games with many of their best players out, it was also great to see Tatum have a breakout game using mostly the mid range game we have heard about.
Monroe and Evans along with Rozier on the 2nd unit would certainly solve the scoring issue, it would have to make them odds on favorites to make the finals.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 4, 2018 13:55:37 GMT -5
One of my only criticisms of Stevens at this point is that he’s still awful at using his timeouts. He constantly waits a few too plays too long.
I’m also ready to see more Theis and less Baynes, but Theis needs to foul less to make that a possibility.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 4, 2018 14:29:43 GMT -5
Wow, 4 huge shots in a row, capped off by Horford making a really hard shot. Just don't get not fouling when you had one to give, then fouling and giving Lillard a 3 point play. Overall a big win for a team that is short handed.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 4, 2018 15:00:17 GMT -5
Wow, 4 huge shots in a row, capped off by Horford making a really hard shot. Just don't get not fouling when you had one to give, then fouling and giving Lillard a 3 point play. Overall a big win for a team that is short handed. Incredible shot indeed, he saved Semi because that was a very stupid play. |
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