SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2018 17:27:30 GMT -5
This game is officially unwatchable, but I have to stick around to watch Paul Pierce night. What a conundrum.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2018 17:31:49 GMT -5
Anyone else see Thomas first game with Lakers? He looked like Thomas,not the player he was on Cavs. Can't wait to see what Crowder does on Jazz. Makes you wonder if it was the players or just the Cavs. You know because Thomas said they needed to practice harder and they all got upset. Makes you wonder about King James, he doesn't seem like a leader. Just wanted to comment if what you said was true Umass, then the Celtics have no shot at the 2-5 pick if IT is IT for the last 30 or so games. I wonder how bad Sacramento will be next year? |
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 11, 2018 17:38:13 GMT -5
This is about to be the third game out of the last 4 games where the Celtics have been blown out. In the one that wasn’t a blowout, they needed OT to beat the John Wall-less Wizards. Not saying to panic based on a few games, but you’re whistling past the graveyard if you don’t think there are major concerns with this team. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2018 17:48:04 GMT -5
This is about to be the third game out of the last 4 games where the Celtics have been blown out. In the one that wasn’t a blowout, they needed OT to beat the John Wall-less Wizards. Not saying to panic based on a few games, but you’re whistling past the graveyard if you don’t think there are major concerns with this team. To be fair though, the Celtics are a Haywardless team themselves. Probably not the Celtics year, but fun to watch the kids grow up. |
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 11, 2018 17:59:01 GMT -5
In the one that wasn’t a blowout, they needed OT to beat the John Wall-less Wizards. Not saying to panic based on a few games, but you’re whistling past the graveyard if you don’t think there are major concerns with this team. To be fair though, the Celtics are a Haywardless team themselves. Probably not the Celtics year, but fun to watch the kids grow up. Yup. From a long-term perspective, this season has already been a success. Jayson and Jaylen are going to be terrific, and even some of the young secondary pieces (Rozier, Semi, and Theis) have developed better than expected. They just don’t look like a team ready to make noise this year, which is fair considering they lost a top 25 player 5 minutes into the season. I just don’t like the lack of effort that’s been a theme for awhile now. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 11, 2018 18:09:44 GMT -5
Anyone else see Thomas first game with Lakers? He looked like Thomas,not the player he was on Cavs. Can't wait to see what Crowder does on Jazz. Makes you wonder if it was the players or just the Cavs. You know because Thomas said they needed to practice harder and they all got upset. Makes you wonder about King James, he doesn't seem like a leader. Just wanted to comment if what you said was true Umass, then the Celtics have no shot at the 2-5 pick if IT is IT for the last 30 or so games. I wonder how bad Sacramento will be next year? Didn't think we had much of a chance. Still will come down to lottery luck, them getting lucky and moving to #2 or #3. Other teams are starting buyouts and gearing up to tank, the Lakers won't. If they had their pick, they might buyout Thomas, Lopez and Pope, but they don't. At the same time the Kings moving on from Hill is a good thing, takes away a good Vet. The new ownership seems just as clueless as the last one. Giles is going to miss the whole season. Just about everything we could hope for. Unless they get a rookie star player in this years draft, they will be very bad it seems. |
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 11, 2018 19:21:50 GMT -5
That was a fantastic ceremony.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2018 19:24:05 GMT -5
That was a fantastic ceremony. Yeah, the Celtics know how to role out legends. Pretty incredible. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 12, 2018 7:43:44 GMT -5
The Kings are going to be very bad next year. That doesn’t guarantee a top 5 pick. Heck, they could be so bad it back fires and they get 1
And we end up with the Sixers pick. But that’s not a team that’s going to flirt with the playoffs. Their pick will be a top 10 selection. Not sure how good the draft will be though.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 12, 2018 8:09:00 GMT -5
For me it was telling that the Celtics best offer included Yabu. Long-term we still have a need for a PF/small ball center that can shoot. So in my opinion rather than trade Nader, Larkin and a first, they offered Yabu and two second round picks. That tells me they value the first round pick over Yabu, which isn't a good thing for Yabu. That and he never plays, hope I'm wrong, but it's looking like he might already be a bust. You’re using someone else’s report of what the best was and treating it like it’s the only thing that existed. The Celtics could have offered both deals to Memphis: Yabu + seconds and Nader/Larkin + seconds. The source could have just said the best offer was Yabu. Doesn’t mean the other doesn’t exist. However - let’s just go with the narrative they Danny values this years first over Yabu. Why do you think that is? Is it because he thinks Yabu is a bust? Or is it for some other reason? Personally, I believe Danny’s driving force on the value of keeping a first this year (which kind of works with the Smart rumors) is because he wants to leave open the ability to package all the firsts they have in 2019 to a possibly rebuilding New Orleans team for Anthony Davis. Sure it’s easy to say they will have plenty of picks that year, but right now thats no guaranteed and Danny hates closing any doors. So yes that’s a reflection on Yabu the player but I do not think it’s a comparison of what they think they can draft at 28 vs Yabu the player. I think it’s about flexibility. Danny isn’t a short sighted GM which is why they have this pipeline and have been able to Make the moves they have and improve while keeping a bright future. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2018 11:41:17 GMT -5
For me it was telling that the Celtics best offer included Yabu. Long-term we still have a need for a PF/small ball center that can shoot. So in my opinion rather than trade Nader, Larkin and a first, they offered Yabu and two second round picks. That tells me they value the first round pick over Yabu, which isn't a good thing for Yabu. That and he never plays, hope I'm wrong, but it's looking like he might already be a bust. You’re using someone else’s report of what the best was and treating it like it’s the only thing that existed. The Celtics could have offered both deals to Memphis: Yabu + seconds and Nader/Larkin + seconds. The source could have just said the best offer was Yabu. Doesn’t mean the other doesn’t exist. However - let’s just go with the narrative they Danny values this years first over Yabu. Why do you think that is? Is it because he thinks Yabu is a bust? Or is it for some other reason? Personally, I believe Danny’s driving force on the value of keeping a first this year (which kind of works with the Smart rumors) is because he wants to leave open the ability to package all the firsts they have in 2019 to a possibly rebuilding New Orleans team for Anthony Davis. Sure it’s easy to say they will have plenty of picks that year, but right now thats no guaranteed and Danny hates closing any doors. So yes that’s a reflection on Yabu the player but I do not think it’s a comparison of what they think they can draft at 28 vs Yabu the player. I think it’s about flexibility. Danny isn’t a short sighted GM which is why they have this pipeline and have been able to Make the moves they have and improve while keeping a bright future. I'm going by the only report that actually told us something. Do you have a report Nader was offered? Did I every say they didn't make other offers? I'm not going to speculate about that, that's it. I bet Danny made manny offers and chances are the Nader Larkin combo was involved. Thing is if you believe that, doesn't that disprove your previous thought that they liked Nader more? . I think it's a combo of Danny not liking what he sees from Yabu and the first round pick currently having more value. Thing is that pick only has the value until you use it. Danny could also be targeting a player in this years draft, but that seems like a long-shot. As he would really have no clue who would be there, unless he plans on promising some player. Maybe, but that doesn't make much sense. Maybe he just loves this draft and wants a pick or wants a pick to offer to trade for a Vet. I never really bought the Smart rumors. I think Danny wanted to send a message and used that as an excuse frankly. I can't give up a first, unless I can get another one and I can't type thing. More like Danny didn't think Evans was worth a first, because of no bird rights. So I bet Danny wants Davis, his modern day KG. For this years pick to matter in a Davis trade, he needs to make it before the draft or hit on a young player. I just don't see them trading him. Unless he demands a trade. He seems like KG, he wants to win for the team that drafted him. He has 3 years left on his deal after this year, so there is no rush to move him. It's awesome to dream on Davis, but I don't see it. Also not sure I would like the cost, it won't just be picks. I'm sure your right about the flexibility thing, my point being that goes away rather soon. After you make the pick frankly. So Danny is going to have to do something within the next year and a half. He's been able to make a bunch of trades to extend the picks, like the Sixers trade and the Grizz trade. So maybe that's what he does, maybe he trades for a star, maybe it's a mix of a couple things. One thing I don't think happens is that he makes all the picks. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2018 13:51:08 GMT -5
Wanted to comment on the Cavs game. I don't take much stock in it frankly. The Cavs played about as well as they could. Everyone was pumped up, LeBron was playing 100% which you don't see much of for long stretches during regular season. Come on he was nailing 3s, like 8 feet behind the line. Everyone played well for them, about the exact opposite for the Celtics. Lets see how they do after this new almost high wares off. LeBron won't play like that for the next 30 games. The new guys won't be lights out every game. Can Thompson and Smith keep it up?
One thing was clear, Smart is now a key player against the Cavs. His D against Hill, Hood and Clarkson will be big. Watching Semi play big minutes hurts, it really does. Good at D, but looks lost on offense. He's also not Smart, he basically just jacks up 3s and can't make them. Based on his college stats I expected more from him, maybe in time. He doesn't get people involved and doesn't even rebound that much. Switching Smart for Semi is a huge upgrade.
Another thing that drove me nuts was Irving trying to go basket for basket with LeBron. Yet LeBron was passing, getting teammates involved, Irving wasn't. If I remember right he did it 3 straight trips, no looking for teammates. Just got ball, looked to score, that kills our offense. Gets everyone just sitting around 3 point line, which leads to tons of 3s and no one besides Irving attacking the rim. He will get his shots, but you can't just not care about the offense like that. They really miss Hayward, as he would solve those issues. Call me crazy, but maybe always play Smart or Rozier this year with Irving. Make him a SG, because playing him with Brown means he always has the ball and he mainly looks to score. Brown at SG, just makes everything worse, having a non ball handler there.
Also Crowder, was back to his normal self with the Jazz, saying he loves playing in a system. So it seems the Cavs issues weren't all the players just turned into pumkins, but the system. Maybe the new guys fit better or maybe it's just the honeymoon period.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 12, 2018 14:39:14 GMT -5
That’s not true - this years pick
holds value into next years draft even if the pick died and never played a game. By making a pick in this draft it means you can trade all the picks in the following draft. There’s value in that.
I never intended to portray that they liked Nader more - I offered that as an alternative. I’m offering other plausible reasons why he didn’t trade this years first.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2018 22:13:07 GMT -5
Why? Danny told us why he didn't make a trade, the value was bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 13, 2018 7:39:18 GMT -5
Why? Danny told us why he didn't make a trade, the value was bad. You lost me. Obviously, he didn’t make a trade because he didn’t see value in the cost it would take to do so. We don’t need Danny or anyone to tell us that. It goes without saying. Because of the way NBA trade rules are simply making a pick one year carries value into the next even if that player you took is a complete bust. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 14, 2018 9:18:50 GMT -5
Then why try and come up with a ton of reasons why he didn't make the trade? You lost me a couple of posts ago frankly. You spent all this time trying to come up with reasons, then act like the reason was simple from the start. Color me confused.
Nevermind my point about first round picks is they lose most of there value, not all of it. See where I said Yabu basically now has the value of a second round pick. With all the picks we have, making a pick this year with our own pick, so we can make a trade next year was likely very very low on Danny reasons. Simply because we will have multiple picks. If we don't get the Lakers pick this year, we get another pick next year, plus our pick. Also good chance we get Griz pick and a chance we get Clippers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Feb 14, 2018 22:30:12 GMT -5
Jesus what a terrible game.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 14, 2018 22:32:10 GMT -5
There couldn't be a better time for a all-star game for the Celtics.
|
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Feb 14, 2018 22:35:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 15, 2018 7:47:08 GMT -5
Then why try and come up with a ton of reasons why he didn't make the trade? You lost me a couple of posts ago frankly. You spent all this time trying to come up with reasons, then act like the reason was simple from the start. Color me confused. Nevermind my point about first round picks is they lose most of there value, not all of it. See where I said Yabu basically now has the value of a second round pick. With all the picks we have, making a pick this year with our own pick, so we can make a trade next year was likely very very low on Danny reasons. Simply because we will have multiple picks. If we don't get the Lakers pick this year, we get another pick next year, plus our pick. Also good chance we get Griz pick and a chance we get Clippers. Simple? The reason ANY team doesn’t make a trade is the basic thought “no bad value”. That’s true of every trade that’s ever not made. Put it this way. You seem to think (and maybe I’m misinterpreting) that Danny thinks Yabu the player is worse than a lottery ticket that they could get with a late first round pick. My contention is there’s nothing that tells us that. Even if Danny would prefer to trade Yabu to that first (which really wasn’t an option), it still doesn’t mean that Danny felt that first would likely be a better player than Yabu. There are other factors that go into it which are more important. Based on Danny’s past actions I think a more plausible motivator to keeping this years first is the ability to trade all 2019 1sts. He knows Davis (or some other star) may be available by then AND he knows next years team with Hayward and further young growth could be a real contender. |
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 15, 2018 7:51:28 GMT -5
It’s almost like the defense isn’t very good or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Feb 15, 2018 9:07:15 GMT -5
The first 35 games or so the defense was exceptional IMO because it was frenetic, high energy. That is hard to maintain. It also saps the offense. The tide has gone out a bit revealing some previously hidden debris.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2018 10:13:44 GMT -5
Then why try and come up with a ton of reasons why he didn't make the trade? You lost me a couple of posts ago frankly. You spent all this time trying to come up with reasons, then act like the reason was simple from the start. Color me confused. Nevermind my point about first round picks is they lose most of there value, not all of it. See where I said Yabu basically now has the value of a second round pick. With all the picks we have, making a pick this year with our own pick, so we can make a trade next year was likely very very low on Danny reasons. Simply because we will have multiple picks. If we don't get the Lakers pick this year, we get another pick next year, plus our pick. Also good chance we get Griz pick and a chance we get Clippers. Simple? The reason ANY team doesn’t make a trade is the basic thought “no bad value”. That’s true of every trade that’s ever not made. Put it this way. You seem to think (and maybe I’m misinterpreting) that Danny thinks Yabu the player is worse than a lottery ticket that they could get with a late first round pick. My contention is there’s nothing that tells us that. Even if Danny would prefer to trade Yabu to that first (which really wasn’t an option), it still doesn’t mean that Danny felt that first would likely be a better player than Yabu. There are other factors that go into it which are more important. Based on Danny’s past actions I think a more plausible motivator to keeping this years first is the ability to trade all 2019 1sts. He knows Davis (or some other star) may be available by then AND he knows next years team with Hayward and further young growth could be a real contender. What are Danny past actions that make you think he would want to trade all his picks next year??? If you go by Danny's past actions he's more likely to make all the picks next year. Which if you remember was basically my point that started this, he just can't continue to do that. Let's say he wants Davis, trading this years pick does nothing to stop that. They aren't going to really care about the Celtics pick, they would want the Kings pick, the Grizz pick, the Clippers pick, high picks and young talent. Getting a 2018 Celtics first or a 2019 Celtics first would do nothing to stop that trade from happening. You know this, yet you are arguing the opposite. You keep saying they couldn't just trade a first, but they could. They just had to include filler, that most likely isn't on the team next year in Nader and Larkin. Danny valued the pick over Yabu and two seconds. I never said he did it for a lottery ticket type chance, just that's what the pick is. Heck I even listed the many reasons he might prefer keeping the pick. My point was the pick most likely has more value in a trade than using it to draft a player. Example Jordan was available and would have been traded to Cavs if they had another expiring contract for only the Cavs first this year. That's currently how much teams value late first round picks. Heck the Cavs got Nance and Clarkson for that late round pick. Most likely giving you way more value than that pick every would. They are young players that could be part of the Cavs long-term plans. Compare that to past trades like Korver, which was very bad value in my opinion. A marginal upgrade that is towards the end of his career. By all accounts a late first could have got you Randle this year. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 15, 2018 10:35:28 GMT -5
Jordan is a crafty veteran and he got a couple of cheap fouls on Baynes by holding him. Take out Baynes and we have no one that can guard Jordan. This was the type of game you needed Baynes for 30 minutes, not 15. To control Jordan.
Overall we miss Smart, the team looks tired, and Tatum and Brown's play is inconsistent. Things that can be fixed. They need rest and practice, things you get in the playoffs. I'm not worried about the D overall. It's a long season, teams go through poor stretches. Anyone expecting great D all the time, from this team, with all the games they played, the injuries and young players was expecting way too much. I expect them to look a lot better after the all-star game. A team this young needs practice time, yet you don't get a ton of that for long stretches of the season.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2018 8:15:39 GMT -5
Fair enough but maybe the team doesn’t consider Nader filler?
And what i was saying about Danny is his past has told me he likes to have as many options as possible which includes being able to trade all his firsts if he wants to. He is willing to deal them (see Winslow deal that Charlotte rejected) but he’s very particular about in what situation. So far taking them has worked out.
Overall, firsts are too valuable to trade for a player on an expiring contract to add to a young growing team that has next to no chance to win a championship. You don’t flush good resources like that on a team like this. Danny continues his patient approach which has worked so far.
|
|
|
