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2017-18 Celtics Season Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2018 8:17:53 GMT -5
I agree this is a pretty predictable mid season rut. This team never should have played as well as it did from the jump, had a ridiculously hard schedule with no practice time, are relying on a ton of young guys; it’s no wonder they are tired and struggling. I agree with UMass they need a break. I kind of wish Tatum would skip All-Star weekend but he deserves to be there.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 16, 2018 8:50:56 GMT -5
Have we seen anything that says Nader isn't filler? He's technically a rookie, but 4 years of College, a full year in G league, and 2 years in the organization. Yet Semi passed him after one training camp and if Hayward was healthy Semi would hardly play. He's not Rozier or heck even a James Young that was young, limited experience and high upside. Good 11/12 man type player, but frankly I see him as trade filler. Only way I see him on team next year is if we make a big 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 type trade. Larkin has shown me a lot more than Nader.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2018 8:49:11 GMT -5
Nader has shown some ability as a 2 way wing that can switch on D. He’s definitely a Danny and Brad type of guy. I don’t think they’d have much of a second guess about trading him but last year it was suggested Rozier was a step above trade filler and we learned they wouldn’t include him in deals
for guys like Ibaka. Nader has rotational upside and a lot of years of cheap control which is a key asset for the team in 2019 when Hayward is back and some consolidation may need to take place.
To me trade filler is a guy you’d have no problems cutting for any marginal upgrade. I don’t think Nader fits that category. For example; if they can sign a buy out guy who could help this years team, I don’t think they’d want to cut/dump Nader to do that.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2018 8:58:12 GMT -5
Regarding Semi and Nader, depth charts aren’t fixed and
Semi and Nader are different players who play different positions with some overlap. Semi can guard bigger guys than Nader can. He’s more an undersized 4 whereas Nader is a true wing.
That being said, Semi has shown to be more NBA ready with one particular skill (defense), but that’s it.
Nader is a late bloomer but I don’t understand why we get so caught up in that like it’s a problem. Guys used to go to 4 years of college all the time then take a couple NBA years to develop. Honestly, there could be an advantage to that. His maturity will help him develop over the one and done guy who never faced challenges then crashes and burns. I’m honestly more confident that Nader becomes a good NBA role player than Yabu does.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 17, 2018 9:54:19 GMT -5
Rip when has he shown this ability? In the G league? The same G league where Mickey put up monster stats, like a double double plus a crazy amount of blocks. You need to be very careful when using G league stats, heck Yabu looked good in the G league. I have zero faith in G league stats, it's like a slightly better summer league frankly.
Again I was dead wrong about Rozier, but learned a very important lesson. The Celtics play their young players they really like, even if they don't look great. Basically getting them the game time experience needed, so they can show there true skills. It's why as bad as Semi has looked at times, I have faith in him. They play him a ton. The fact he plays over Nader is very telling. As is the fact Nader hardly plays, but got a good run right before the deadline. It was like they were hoping he does something to increase his trade value. For a while I was arguing to play Nader over Semi because we needed scoring, they didn't do that.
Can Nader be better than Yabu? Maybe, but that isn't saying much. As I said before he already looks like a bust. Never liked the pick and he has never impressed me. I never saw where people got the Larry Johnson comp from, not even close. Johnson was a beast, a very athletic player. Yabu is overweight still and the best you can say is he moves well for his size. That being said, he's an international guy, maybe he needs time to adjust to the NBA style. It's just not a good sign that he never plays unless it's a blow out and they were willing to trade him.
I don't share your feelings that we need players like Nader for depth. Don't get me wrong he's not terrible, but those spots will go to rookies and Vets as they gear up to win a championship. Nevermind wing is the deepest position on the team after Hayward comes back. Heck Semi will struggle to get minutes next year. So for me Nader is just like Hunter, Young, Mickey, Jackson, etc., a guy they move on from when they need roster spots or a contract to trade. My position won't change till he shows he can score in the NBA.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2018 14:35:58 GMT -5
I believe Nader has shown flashes this year to be a productive NBA player. Skill set wise. It’s been small glimpses in limited time but watching him it’s what I’ve personally seen. Not worried abut the box score or what number he sits on the depth chart in his rookie year. He’s a guy in year 3 I see as being potentially valuable. My only point is he’s not roster fodder in my opinion. But yes i agree he needs to show he can score. So does Semi.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 17, 2018 22:31:56 GMT -5
Agreed that Yabu looks unplayably terrible, it's really amazing that for a guy as good at what he does as Danny is, when he misses on a pick he misses hard.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 18, 2018 8:10:24 GMT -5
Agreed that Yabu looks unplayably terrible, it's really amazing that for a guy as good at what he does as Danny is, when he misses on a pick he misses hard. To be fair most misses are hard misses. A bust is a bust. I’m not ready to go there with Yabu but it’s only because he got some good hype. Shows how bad international scouting still is though if he’s really as bad as it seems. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 18, 2018 11:48:40 GMT -5
Yeah but...isn't Yabu the dancing bear?
Isn't Semi overweight too? He does a fantastic job moving his feet defensively especially given his size but(t) ...could he be better slimming down.?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 18, 2018 12:50:43 GMT -5
Agreed that Yabu looks unplayably terrible, it's really amazing that for a guy as good at what he does as Danny is, when he misses on a pick he misses hard. To be fair most misses are hard misses. A bust is a bust. I’m not ready to go there with Yabu but it’s only because he got some good hype. Shows how bad international scouting still is though if he’s really as bad as it seems. This was Danny not international scouting in general, because Danny drafted him way higher than anyone had him. Like a full round higher. There were crap loads of international guys listed above him. No one was as high on Yabu as Danny was. It's why I hated the pick, bad value at the very least. Very unlike Danny frankly, I can't off the top of my head think of another player he overdrafted like this. It's like when he joked about almost drafting Gomes mid first round and got him mid second round. Yet this time he pulled the trigger. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 18, 2018 12:58:26 GMT -5
Yeah but...isn't Yabu the dancing bear? Isn't Semi overweight too? He does a fantastic job moving his feet defensively especially given his size but(t) ...could he be better slimming down.? Semi overweight? How? He has 5.5% body fat, I bet Yabu is double that,if not higher. I think you mean is he to jacked up? He tested as an elite athlete at this size, so I don't think so. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 18, 2018 22:51:34 GMT -5
Well I never saw body fat stats.. just applied the eyeball test. I think Yabu is the better shooter of the two...Semi the better defender.
I remember people commenting on Pablo Sandoval's weight being a non issue given his body type. When he failed...oops!.. he was then branded an undisciplined sloth.
Smart looks better on the court this year having pared down. Yabu and Semi are heavy set. Semi looks like a larger Smart. Could he be quicker losing a few lbs?
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 18, 2018 23:39:21 GMT -5
Interesting, I never noticed Semi to be fat, I'll take a closer look on the next game. He looks pretty jacked though.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 19, 2018 3:31:46 GMT -5
Well I never saw body fat stats.. just applied the eyeball test. I think Yabu is the better shooter of the two...Semi the better defender. I remember people commenting on Pablo Sandoval's weight being a non issue given his body type. When he failed...oops!.. he was then branded an undisciplined sloth. Smart looks better on the court this year having pared down. Yabu and Semi are heavy set. Semi looks like a larger Smart. Could he be quicker losing a few lbs? At 241 pounds he tested as an elite athlete, in the top 5% of there data base. How are you using the eyeball test to compare Yabu, Semi and Sandoval ? Yabu and Sandoval are fat, they have guts. People might have overlooked Sandovals weight because of his production, but no one didn't think he was fat, even with his bigger body style. Actually a lot of people worried the exact thing that happended would happen. Semi just isn't close to fat and doesn't look to have added a ton of weight. He's just very jacked. Smart is different, he's not an elite athlete, so the added weight greatly effected his quickness. In a way I get your concern, we've yet to really see Semi be a great athlete. We certainly don't see Brown level dunks. Overall offensively he just looks lost, he seems to be struggling with adjusting to being a role player and not the man he was at SMU. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 19, 2018 13:14:55 GMT -5
Charles Barkley did alright for himself with a body type that didn’t scream athlete.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 19, 2018 13:27:43 GMT -5
Oddly, enough Rozier was considered a reach when he was
Picked too. It was weird they were criticized for taking him at 16 instead of 28. Some even said they should have taken Hunter then him, even though they got both, because it was a greater risk of Hunter not being there at 28 and Hunter was a greater need. Funny how things work out.
Also, regarding Yabu; you are right after the draft but coming into this year pundits said Yabu would be a top 10 pick if he were in this years draft so things changed after he was stashed for a year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 20, 2018 10:44:28 GMT -5
Rozier wasn't really a reach, just looked at a few mocks and one had him at 21, while having Hunter late first to early second. The shock with Rozier was we had just drafted Smart and traded for Thomas. No one was thinking PG. Also Hunter stock fell heading up to draft and Roziers went up. 2015 was that very deep draft with a ton of players ranked very close together.
Are you confusing Zizic with Yabu? I've seen reports that Zizic could have been top 10, not Yabu. Looking at that draft I think even Zizic can't crack that top 10 and Yabu probably isn't a first round pick.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2018 7:23:56 GMT -5
Rozier wasn't really a reach, just looked at a few mocks and one had him at 21, while having Hunter late first to early second. The shock with Rozier was we had just drafted Smart and traded for Thomas. No one was thinking PG. Also Hunter stock fell heading up to draft and Roziers went up. 2015 was that very deep draft with a ton of players ranked very close together. Are you confusing Zizic with Yabu? I've seen reports that Zizic could have been top 10, not Yabu. Looking at that draft I think even Zizic can't crack that top 10 and Yabu probably isn't a first round pick. No I went back and read the post draft analysis of the Rozier pick. You are right about the PG aspect of things but no one had him going that high. Just read the comments there was utter shock he was taken and the pick was largely ridiculed for both being too early and redundant. I wasn’t bringing it up to suggest it’s the same as Yabu; was just comparing bc of the similar draft spots. Did you read the Chris Ford special post draft edited mock? Lol (totally kidding). |
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 21, 2018 9:29:11 GMT -5
I haven't noticed Yabu's belly...maybe it was jiggling too fast for my shutter speed. He just looks soft.
To me Semi has a build akin to Smart...just bigger. I don't know whether that bulk is natural or he is a regular at Aahnold's gym. Obviously that stature works well in muscling opponents. I'm not as sure that it helps with offensive fluidity.
But for me it's harder to associate quickness with bulk. Marcus shed a few and looks to have improved twitch. But maybe Semi IS the Man of Steel....
As for Pablo, I recall some claiming that his size, regardless of composition, would not factor in his performance as that was his body type and at which he had proved himself exceptional.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 21, 2018 11:05:05 GMT -5
Rozier wasn't really a reach, just looked at a few mocks and one had him at 21, while having Hunter late first to early second. The shock with Rozier was we had just drafted Smart and traded for Thomas. No one was thinking PG. Also Hunter stock fell heading up to draft and Roziers went up. 2015 was that very deep draft with a ton of players ranked very close together. Are you confusing Zizic with Yabu? I've seen reports that Zizic could have been top 10, not Yabu. Looking at that draft I think even Zizic can't crack that top 10 and Yabu probably isn't a first round pick. No I went back and read the post draft analysis of the Rozier pick. You are right about the PG aspect of things but no one had him going that high. Just read the comments there was utter shock he was taken and the pick was largely ridiculed for both being too early and redundant. I wasn’t bringing it up to suggest it’s the same as Yabu; was just comparing bc of the similar draft spots. Did you read the Chris Ford special post draft edited mock? Lol (totally kidding). I use ESPN, Draft Express and NBAdraft.net for my info. With the Ford firing and draft express taking over at ESPN all there past rankings and mocks are gone for some reason. So I only have nbadraft.net, who in there final ranking had Rozier rated 17th and going 21st in its mock. If you're talking about the reactions on this board I'm sure that's about right. No one would have been researching and following Rozier, because of Thomas and Smart. I sure wasn't and I remember being mad because it made little sense. It wasn't a need, but Danny went best player available, which is what he should have done. My biggest mistakes over the years is looking at need. I compare the Rozier pick to the Semi pick. I was so high on Bell that I slammed the Semi pick at first. After further review it was a very good pick, I just let my shock get in the way at first. Speaking of Chad Ford did you have your own Ford moment replacing Zizic with Yabu to prove a point?? |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 23, 2018 21:04:36 GMT -5
More Theis, less Baynes.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 23, 2018 21:32:39 GMT -5
Nobody played more than 30 minutes, what a difference it makes when Stevens is able to trust his bench.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 23, 2018 21:58:28 GMT -5
Awesome start after the break. I think the Celtics are now 6 games over Cleveland for home court advantage now.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 24, 2018 21:30:23 GMT -5
This second unit is just not very good. I know they’re trying to establish Monroe, but how bout continuing to run offense?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 25, 2018 4:30:25 GMT -5
Kyrie carried the Celtics last night, again.
Anyone know if Hayward will make a comeback with 10 or less games left in the season. We are almost halfway to that point now.
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