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2018 Boston Celtics offseason
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2018 5:56:13 GMT -5
This reminds me of the JD Martinez is fed up with the Red Sox report. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2018 7:33:12 GMT -5
Well those Martinez reports weren't wrong, he's still upset how things unfolded. Thinking he deserved more than he got and he's likely right.
This isn't surprising after his comments of him thinking he's worth a ton. That along with a stacked roster and very little money left for teams to spend. What only the Hawks, Kings, Bulls and Celtics can now give him over mid-level money. Can't be a good feeling knowing your minutes will go down and not getting the offers you expected. So I believe this report more than Yesterdays report that the Celtics are giving him a big deal. I just don't see that, not this year. If he gets over 10 million from us, it will be next year, not this year. Only way I see him getting paid this year by us is if something wild like a Butler trade happens that puts us over the tax line. Watching Exum, Randle and even McDermott get deals can't make him feel good.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 6, 2018 8:23:28 GMT -5
Well those Martinez reports weren't wrong, he's still upset how things unfolded. Thinking he deserved more than he got and he's likely right. This isn't surprising after his comments of him thinking he's worth a ton. That along with a stacked roster and very little money left for teams to spend. What only the Hawks, Kings, Bulls and Celtics can now give him over mid-level money. Can't be a good feeling knowing your minutes will go down and not getting the offers you expected. So I believe this report more than Yesterdays report that the Celtics are giving him a big deal. I just don't see that, not this year. If he gets over 10 million from us, it will be next year, not this year. Only way I see him getting paid this year by us is if something wild like a Butler trade happens that puts us over the tax line. Watching Exum, Randle and even McDermott get deals can't make him feel good. Those JD Martinez reports were completely debunked by him a couple weeks ago. He brought it up in his rant about the MLB channel being “all lies”. He said he was watching it and Rosenthal’s report came on and he called Boris who told him to let it go and the story would go away so he didn’t comment at the time. JD is still pissed about it to the point that he said he hasn’t seen Rosenthal yet but when he does he’s going to ask him where he got the story because it wasn’t true. I’m sure Boris said it to Rosenthal because this is how agents play the media to get things out but it doesn’t make the story true. I have no doubt that Marcus is frustrated but that doesn’t mean this story is true. There was literally a report a couple days ago from Kenny Smith that the Celtics and Smart have had a good dialogue. We just don’t know and you get reports on every side of the spectrum this time of year. It’s annoying. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 6, 2018 12:49:56 GMT -5
SRS has to be the worst stat to use when predicting future performances, heck its a fairly meaningless stat all around. For example it shows the Raptors as the 2nd best team in the league last year. It says the Cavs were a crappy team, way worse than the Nuggets who didn't make the playoffs. Oladipo had a great postseason 22.7 points, 8.3 rebounds, 6 assists, and 2.4 steals per game, while having a 22 PER and a .160 winshare per 48. Sabonis and Turner both 21 were tied for second on the team in points during the postseason. It was a team that got better as the season went along. They have solid vets in Young, Collison, Bogdanovic, and Stephenson last year. They also added more talent in free agency getting Evans, easily the biggest upgrade to either team. I also think Holiday was a great pick in the draft for them, I really didn't like the Allen pick for the Jazz. Decent player, just lacks upside. Given Gobert, guys like Wagner and Spellman just made so much sense. There both good teams that play a tough style. Kinda teams no team wants to face in the playoffs, yet neither is close to a true contender. On paper the Jazz might be better, but Gobert and Favors just don't fit in todays NBA. Tons of D and rebounding, just not enough scoring and shooting. Add in Rubio and I just don't like the fit. It's an old school type team. That's were the Pacers close the gap, that team has Turner, Sabonis, and Young as it's bigs. Even Leaf waiting in the wings. Its a much more athletic current NBA style team. It can matchup better in todays NBA. I love Turner as a rim protecting, rebounding, shooting big in todays NBA. SRS isn't perfect, but it takes into account both point differential and strength of schedule. It's a better way to gauge how good a team was than well pretty much any team stat in the NBA. All of those things you said were true in the last regular season. The Raptors were really elite, the Cavs were sh*t and the Nuggets was a really good team that missed the playoffs. All of those check out. While I agree they're both tough, the Pacers don't have anything elite about them. They're solid, solid is not enough. Meanwhile, the Jazz had the second best defense in the league and probably would have finished first with a better injury luck. And I agree that in general you'd that a "smaller" and more mobile team over the Jazz towering duo, but Gobert was coming back from injury. I wanna see if he gets punished by switches in the next post-season before I make that judgment. He's too big and too to not make adjustments on that. By reports Lakers didn't want to lock in long-term money with Randle, because they want a star next year. It was a massive mistake. Should have just given him Rondo's deal. It makes zero sense. There is outrage, articles saying the Lakers assembled the worst cast of players to play with LeBron. That Rondo for Randle being a huge reason why. Rondo needs the ball, just like Ball, yet Randle doesn't. I never said Randle was a star, but he's a high level starter, with upside. Thats not a role player in my book. He is a beast down low, he can dominate the paint in small ball lineups. The Pelicans took Randle over Cousins, pulling there 2 year 40 million offer. That's why he's on the Warriors now. The Lakers messed up this thing bad. They could have had Cousins, yet went with Rondo. They had three choices and they took the worse one. This has LeBron written all over it, he wanted Rondo, even though it makes no sense. They should have kept Randle and signed Cousins, which they could have easily done. I guess it all depends if the Pelicans still pull that offer and sign someone else if they couldn't get Randle. Lakers could have kept Randle and still offered Cousins a big one year offer. Which is what he wanted if he wasn't getting the max. Even with them being Stupid I'd still take the Lakers over the Jazz right now. LeBron is that good and they still have enough talent. Guys like Kuzma and Wagner are perfect matchups against the Jazz. I think you're making too much of Love frankly. LeBron and him didn't mix. Love needs the offense run through him to be effective, LeBron wouldn't allow that. Add in his bad D and I wanted Love playing in the playoffs. Thought Thompson and Nance gave us more problems than Love. Playing with LeBron I don't know if the drop off from Love to Kuzma is that big. I wouldn't take Ingram over Brown either, but its close. Ingram really improved last year just like Brown. On a normal team yea Brown wouldn't be a great number two next year. Yet he's more than enough with LeBron leading the way to beat the Jazz. That was the question right? Can they beat the Jazz, not can they get to the finals or win a title. I agree with everything you said about the clusterf*ck of a free agency period the Lakers are having outside of Lebron, they pretty much fumbled every single move and the Randle for Rondo one was egregious. I just think you're overrating Randle a bit. He's good, not sure about great. He's a good scorer for the position, solid rebounder, so-so defender. Maybe playing a bit more free in New Orleans he'll take that next step towards stardom. We'll see. And you're definitely underrating Love, I think he was the perfect PF to play with Lebron. He was a great passer for transition dunks, he was a fantastic shooter for his position and you could put him in a 1-2 offense with another great shooter (like Korver) and that would really take some pressure off Lebron for a few possessions. The Cavs didn't run nearly enough of that move with Love because Coach Lue is a moron. Main thing here is that he was a great shooter. Nobody on the Lakers fits that mold. Ingram didn't shoot enough, Kuzma was okay-ish, KCP was a good shooter but I really don't like him as a player, Ball is LMAO that shooting form sucks. Lebron takes it to the hoop and kicks out, who nails that shot like Korver or Love would? Yeah the question is could they beat the Jazz. Of course they could, but should we expect them to? Are they automatically favorites over the Jazz? I really don't see it. Not unless Kuzma or Ingram take a gargantuan step next season. This is purely personal feeling, but if I had to rank the West in tiers right now it would go: 1- Warriors, Rockets 2- Jazz 3- Lakers, Pelicans, Thunder 4- Portland 5- Wolves, Spurs, Nuggets 6- Mavs 7- Everyone else Like I said, we'll see how it goes. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2018 16:20:59 GMT -5
Well those Martinez reports weren't wrong, he's still upset how things unfolded. Thinking he deserved more than he got and he's likely right. This isn't surprising after his comments of him thinking he's worth a ton. That along with a stacked roster and very little money left for teams to spend. What only the Hawks, Kings, Bulls and Celtics can now give him over mid-level money. Can't be a good feeling knowing your minutes will go down and not getting the offers you expected. So I believe this report more than Yesterdays report that the Celtics are giving him a big deal. I just don't see that, not this year. If he gets over 10 million from us, it will be next year, not this year. Only way I see him getting paid this year by us is if something wild like a Butler trade happens that puts us over the tax line. Watching Exum, Randle and even McDermott get deals can't make him feel good. Those JD Martinez reports were completely debunked by him a couple weeks ago. He brought it up in his rant about the MLB channel being “all lies”. He said he was watching it and Rosenthal’s report came on and he called Boris who told him to let it go and the story would go away so he didn’t comment at the time. JD is still pissed about it to the point that he said he hasn’t seen Rosenthal yet but when he does he’s going to ask him where he got the story because it wasn’t true. I’m sure Boris said it to Rosenthal because this is how agents play the media to get things out but it doesn’t make the story true. I have no doubt that Marcus is frustrated but that doesn’t mean this story is true. There was literally a report a couple days ago from Kenny Smith that the Celtics and Smart have had a good dialogue. We just don’t know and you get reports on every side of the spectrum this time of year. It’s annoying. I don't know what exact report you're talking about. I'm talking about the reports he wasn't happy with the way the talks went and how it got dragged out. sports.yahoo.com/j-d-martinez-speaks-slow-mlb-offseason-joke-165318463.htmlAs for Smart and the reports you are 100% correct. We have seen two completely opposite reports in two days. So its really up to each person to take them as they see them. For me I don't buy the first report at all. I didn't post it here because I think its all BS. I can't see Danny having a done deal and giving Smart a long-term deal this year for 12 to 14 million. I might be wrong, I just don't see us going over the tax this year to sign Smart. Heck reports say the Celtics only offered Cousins the tax payer mid-level deal and not the full mid-level. Which made our offer the same as the Warriors. So if you won't go over the cap to get Cousins, I can't see doing it for Smart. Just my take on things given the reports I've seen. Seeing how Melo cost the Thunder 90 million in luxury tax, I'm even more convinced than ever. One player not even on a current max level deal was the difference between 150 million tax bill and 60 million tax bill. So I buy the report I posted. It just makes sense, given what we know. He wants to get paid big bucks and I don't think Ainge wants to give it to him. At least not this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2018 5:59:05 GMT -5
Good news; Sacramento is still dumb. Trying to sign LaVine to that offer sheet was just dumb. Bad news; they are still dumb so they will be adding veterans that will help them win games.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2018 6:04:19 GMT -5
I wonder if Parker’s departure opens the door for Leonard to reconcile with the Spurs.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 7, 2018 7:24:54 GMT -5
I wonder if Parker’s departure opens the door for Leonard to reconcile with the Spurs. I'm sure the Spurs are hoping so. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 7, 2018 8:31:19 GMT -5
Good news; Sacramento is still dumb. Trying to sign LaVine to that offer sheet was just dumb. Bad news; they are still dumb so they will be adding veterans that will help them win games. Yeah...let's hope they get a lobotomy and not leave it to chance....I want more than dumb. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2018 12:31:08 GMT -5
The Kings have been acting very smart. Going after LaVine was a smart way to spend there money. They don't have a pick next year. I really question the Bulls matching it frankly, they should be tanking next year.
If the Kings aren't stupid they turn to Smart and Parker next. If that doesn't work a bigger one year deal with Thomas makes sense. Make him a promise that you'd flip him at deadline if he returns close to 100%.
Maybe use that cap space to take Melo, rather than the Thunder using the stretch provision on him. Instead of just 9 million in dead cap they could add a Shumpert or Temple type player and not have any money left after this year. They just need to include some picks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2018 22:39:33 GMT -5
The Kings have been acting very smart. Going after LaVine was a smart way to spend there money. They don't have a pick next year. I really question the Bulls matching it frankly, they should be tanking next year. If the Kings aren't stupid they turn to Smart and Parker next. If that doesn't work a bigger one year deal with Thomas makes sense. Make him a promise that you'd flip him at deadline if he returns close to 100%. Maybe use that cap space to take Melo, rather than the Thunder using the stretch provision on him. Instead of just 9 million in dead cap they could add a Shumpert or Temple type player and not have any money left after this year. They just need to include some picks. In what world is spending 18m a year over 4 years a smart move for the Kings? Sorry the player isn’t worth that money it’s a dumb signing unless you just want to spend money and be not very good. Just because you don’t have a pick next year doesn’t mean you don’t think long term. Maybe it means you sign one year deals or something but it doesn’t mean you give dumb long term contracts. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2018 22:40:24 GMT -5
I do hope the Celtics keep Jabari Bird; my guess is there’s little chance they lose him unless someone got dumb and tried to pay h 3-4m a year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2018 23:35:11 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 8, 2018 2:04:51 GMT -5
Good. I love Marcus, he's an incredible player but he needs to show more on offense. At least some kind of go to move so he isn't immediately exploitable. He's a great passer and he runs the offense like a total pro, but he absolutely needs to find one shot he's good at otherwise he's toast. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 8, 2018 2:21:18 GMT -5
If Smart accepts the QO, does it keep them under the tax this year?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2018 7:51:11 GMT -5
Good. I love Marcus, he's an incredible player but he needs to show more on offense. At least some kind of go to move so he isn't immediately exploitable. He's a great passer and he runs the offense like a total pro, but he absolutely needs to find one shot he's good at otherwise he's toast. He’s not going to be toast as long as he can distribute and play defense the way he does. I always felt this was the most likely scenario, him coming back on the QO this year. Before, we went over tax implications and the CB trade rules, I thought it was possible he got a one year deal at a large sum like JJ Reddick last year (just not as large). If Marcus signs a one year deal it comes with a no trade clause so he needs to approve of any trade situation. Yes, a QO is a great situation for the Celtics and the luxury tax line. Makes it pretty easy to stay under and still gives them some midlevel money to work with. My guess is some of the midlevel is used to resign Jabari Bird. I think between last year and the summer league so far, he’s proving to be an NBA player and since, Marcus, Kyrie and Rozier are all free agents next year; he can be an important guy to keep for another couple years at cheap money. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2018 8:26:30 GMT -5
Some more Bird notes:
Celtics tendered him a Qualifying offer so they can match any contract he’s given.
He’s already 24 (July 3 birthday), so his ceiling is limited, but...
He was a top 25 five star recruit coming out of high school so he has pedigree. (Ainge loves that stuff)
His college career was up and down but injuries played a huge role in that. He was likely on his way to coming out after his sophomore year but an injury derailed his season. He had a different injury each year of his college career. Could be a concern he’s injury prone or could be bad luck as none were reoccurring or particularly major.
He’s 6’6 with a 6’8 wing span and more of a wing even though I inferred protection against Rozier and Smart and Kyrie being free agents. I still think he is more of a back court guy than a Hayward, Morris, Tatum wing.
He’s very athletic vertically, but not necessarily laterally so that could affect his one on one D on opposing PGs.
He profiles as a 3 and D type prospect although he’s a great cutter and very good finishing around the rim so I feel that’s a lazy catch all box to put him in.
Per reports; he’s a tireless worker, great teammate, unselfish and has a great basketball IQ.
Long and short of it; this is an older prospect who still has some upside and can likely be had for super cheap for the next 3-4 years. Guys like this, to me, are key guys for top teams with high payrolls to have and to continue to have on their rosters so you can have long sustained runs.
I think I’ve seen enough of Nader and Bird to know we should choose to keep Jabari over Abdel.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 8, 2018 8:32:00 GMT -5
It is going to be interesting to see how Danny keeps this team together LT. Things will start to get interesting next year when Kyrie and Smart are unrestricted, Terry is restricted and Brown is ready to be tended or offered something LT. So many moving parts and assets to consider when building the roster.
This team could be and should be the next NBA dynasty for the next 10 years, it's going to be fun!!
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2018 9:49:55 GMT -5
It is going to be interesting to see how Danny keeps this team together LT. Things will start to get interesting next year when Kyrie and Smart are unrestricted, Terry is restricted and Brown is ready to be tended or offered something LT. So many moving parts and assets to consider when building the roster. This team could be and should be the next NBA dynasty for the next 10 years, it's going to be fun!! Keeping Kyrie is the key. If he bolts, they can still be that potential dynasty but obviously it isn’t ideal losing your best player and it would mean Rozier really needs to take another couple steps forward. The Kings pick being second in the draft would also be ideal.., ha |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 8, 2018 10:32:29 GMT -5
Williams' knee bump aggravated existing knee tendonitis. Is that the "medical condition" that may have contributed to draft slide? He certainly hasn't put much work in since drafted so it's unlikely to have occurred over 3-4 days of camp. If it has been problematic longer term, should that be a concern? He certainly had some time to treat/correct it since season end if it were minor.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 8, 2018 12:28:32 GMT -5
It is going to be interesting to see how Danny keeps this team together LT. Things will start to get interesting next year when Kyrie and Smart are unrestricted, Terry is restricted and Brown is ready to be tended or offered something LT. So many moving parts and assets to consider when building the roster. This team could be and should be the next NBA dynasty for the next 10 years, it's going to be fun!! Keeping Kyrie is the key. If he bolts, they can still be that potential dynasty but obviously it isn’t ideal losing your best player and it would mean Rozier really needs to take another couple steps forward. The Kings pick being second in the draft would also be ideal.., ha Keeping Kyrie is key and a little bit of luck with all the extra picks is the insurance for the longevity of the coming dynasty. How about if the Memphis pick comes a few years down the road and is a top 3. I also like the idea of Kawhi going to the Clippers as it should put them in the playoffs so we get there pick. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2018 13:28:09 GMT -5
The Kings have been acting very smart. Going after LaVine was a smart way to spend there money. They don't have a pick next year. I really question the Bulls matching it frankly, they should be tanking next year. If the Kings aren't stupid they turn to Smart and Parker next. If that doesn't work a bigger one year deal with Thomas makes sense. Make him a promise that you'd flip him at deadline if he returns close to 100%. Maybe use that cap space to take Melo, rather than the Thunder using the stretch provision on him. Instead of just 9 million in dead cap they could add a Shumpert or Temple type player and not have any money left after this year. They just need to include some picks. In what world is spending 18m a year over 4 years a smart move for the Kings? Sorry the player isn’t worth that money it’s a dumb signing unless you just want to spend money and be not very good. Just because you don’t have a pick next year doesn’t mean you don’t think long term. Maybe it means you sign one year deals or something but it doesn’t mean you give dumb long term contracts. The ones the Kings live in. Signing a guy with good upside coming off his age 22 season is a good move. About the best they could do. You are thinking like a Celtics fan about this move. Sign one year contracts to go after a better guy next year. These are the Kings, they won't get a better free agent till they really improve. For that to happen they need to gamble. They will still have a lot of money next year. This is way worse for the Bulls in my opinion. This kills there pick next year and clogs up cap space for them. The Bulls have a much better chance at getting free agents than the Kings do. The only better way to spend that cap space is taking back bad contracts if teams are willing to trade assets for you to do it. Like Melo or Deng, but it all depends what they are offering. That is also a long-term strategy though. I do like the idea of Melo for them. He would put people in the seats at least and could offer more options at the deadline. The Kings are in a hard place, with an Owner demanding that they start winning. That might be the wrong strategy put those are the marching orders the GM has. Hence why I didn't think it was a bad move. Better than signing Vets on the decline to big long-term deals like last year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2018 13:32:07 GMT -5
If Smart accepts the QO, does it keep them under the tax this year? Yes just Barely. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2018 13:41:58 GMT -5
Good. I love Marcus, he's an incredible player but he needs to show more on offense. At least some kind of go to move so he isn't immediately exploitable. He's a great passer and he runs the offense like a total pro, but he absolutely needs to find one shot he's good at otherwise he's toast. He’s not going to be toast as long as he can distribute and play defense the way he does. I always felt this was the most likely scenario, him coming back on the QO this year. Before, we went over tax implications and the CB trade rules, I thought it was possible he got a one year deal at a large sum like JJ Reddick last year (just not as large). If Marcus signs a one year deal it comes with a no trade clause so he needs to approve of any trade situation. Yes, a QO is a great situation for the Celtics and the luxury tax line. Makes it pretty easy to stay under and still gives them some midlevel money to work with. My guess is some of the midlevel is used to resign Jabari Bird. I think between last year and the summer league so far, he’s proving to be an NBA player and since, Marcus, Kyrie and Rozier are all free agents next year; he can be an important guy to keep for another couple years at cheap money. By my calculations after signing Williams, then Smart your basically capped out. Like minimum signings only. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2018 15:32:13 GMT -5
In what world is spending 18m a year over 4 years a smart move for the Kings? Sorry the player isn’t worth that money it’s a dumb signing unless you just want to spend money and be not very good. Just because you don’t have a pick next year doesn’t mean you don’t think long term. Maybe it means you sign one year deals or something but it doesn’t mean you give dumb long term contracts. The ones the Kings live in. Signing a guy with good upside coming off his age 22 season is a good move. About the best they could do. You are thinking like a Celtics fan about this move. Sign one year contracts to go after a better guy next year. These are the Kings, they won't get a better free agent till they really improve. For that to happen they need to gamble. They will still have a lot of money next year. This is way worse for the Bulls in my opinion. This kills there pick next year and clogs up cap space for them. The Bulls have a much better chance at getting free agents than the Kings do. The only better way to spend that cap space is taking back bad contracts if teams are willing to trade assets for you to do it. Like Melo or Deng, but it all depends what they are offering. That is also a long-term strategy though. I do like the idea of Melo for them. He would put people in the seats at least and could offer more options at the deadline. The Kings are in a hard place, with an Owner demanding that they start winning. That might be the wrong strategy put those are the marching orders the GM has. Hence why I didn't think it was a bad move. Better than signing Vets on the decline to big long-term deals like last year. I could agree with this if I liked the player or it was a 2 year deal max. 4 years is a long time and LaVine isn’t very good. There’s gambling and there’s being stupid. |
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