SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2018 Boston Celtics offseason
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 30, 2018 21:03:25 GMT -5
Yeah that's a steep price but it makes sense when you consider the salary cap. Baynes is going to be more expensive, Rozier is getting VERY expensive really soon and Bamba would be under control for a few more years while theoretically having a higher upside than Baynes. Theoretically having a higher upside than Baynes. Hahahaha!! I'm sorry but Bamba is going to be a defensive force in the NBA with some offensive upside, he will most likely be better than Baynes as a rookie. Having said that I wouldn't give up both the Sac and Memphis pick in a trade, I would give up Rozier our 1st and the Sac pick but that probably wouldn't get it done. I wouldn’t bet on him being better for this team than Baynes next year. Don’t under rateteam Defense rotations and how tough Baynes. Plus, what if Baynes is actually a respectable 3 point shooter next season? |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 30, 2018 21:10:11 GMT -5
Don, I was talking about salary cap argument. Not being one piece away. Obviously, if you can’t get one stud that’s great but giving up all those picks would hurt salary cap down the road. Having a steady influx of talent can be nice, but they are probably hoping that Memphis pick rolls another couple years.
I love me some Wendell Carter. If he wasn’t playing with Bagley, he’d be in the top 5 discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on May 30, 2018 22:26:04 GMT -5
Don, I was talking about salary cap argument. Not being one piece away. Obviously, if you can’t get one stud that’s great but giving up all those picks would hurt salary cap down the road. Having a steady influx of talent can be nice, but they are probably hoping that Memphis pick rolls another couple years. I love me some Wendell Carter. If he wasn’t playing with Bagley, he’d be in the top 5 discussion. I hear you, your argument makes sense. But on the short term, not having to pay big bucks for Rozier and Baynes would be great for the cap as well. The way the team is built, JB and JT will get expensive by the time Horford contract is up and they would still have a window with Bamba or whoever else still being cheap. Banking on the Grizzlies pick would indeed be better, but team is so close right now I'm almost irrational lol. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2018 23:42:25 GMT -5
Theoretically having a higher upside than Baynes. Hahahaha!! I'm sorry but Bamba is going to be a defensive force in the NBA with some offensive upside, he will most likely be better than Baynes as a rookie. Having said that I wouldn't give up both the Sac and Memphis pick in a trade, I would give up Rozier our 1st and the Sac pick but that probably wouldn't get it done. Baynes is one of the best defensive bigs in the league. Bamba hasn't played a single NBA minute. Tempering expectations is always good prior to the draft. You can argue the opposite - trade Rozier for a future first and then using the picks we have on firsts is better for the cap than trading them all and only having one cost controlled guy Yeah, you could do that. However the Celtics are VERY close to a title and if they believe they need another elite piece rather than several good ones, you have to do it. You could always sign ring chasing veterans for the minimum. You make a trade like that, you better think his upside is waaay higher than Baynes. Like one of the better centers in the league. If you believe in his offensive game that could make sense. You better be right though because that basically blows every major future asset you have. Just not sure why it would cost that much. Rozier, Kings pick, and our first rounder. Heck if you really wanted to go crazy add the Clippers pick. You could also just trade Rozier for a pick and get Robert Williams, then still have 2 more lottery picks and another first rounder. Do they need that many lottery picks though? Playing time could be getting limited really soon for any of them to develop properly. Hot take here I've seen on reddit and I have to agree: they don't want Bamba. They want someone else who could be a top 5 pick. Danny is smoke-screening this sucker so he can take Jackson/Carter/Porter. I mean, Wendell Carter has been compared to Al Horford a lot. Do they need them? Not really at this moment, but they do have long-term needs. Replacement for Horford, Baynes, Morris, and maybe Rozier and/or Smart. I don't really disagree in theory about what you want to do. Just that offer was massive. Reminds me of the Winslow offer that turned into Rozier, Brown and other picks. I do agree its not Bamba, not because of fit or that he isn't good enough, just Danny doesn't tip his hand. I also wonder how legit the rumor even is though. It's just like the Porter rumor, basically based off the fact they meet him at the combine. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 6:24:32 GMT -5
Baynes is one of the best defensive bigs in the league. Bamba hasn't played a single NBA minute. Tempering expectations is always good prior to the draft. Yeah, you could do that. However the Celtics are VERY close to a title and if they believe they need another elite piece rather than several good ones, you have to do it. You could always sign ring chasing veterans for the minimum. Do they need that many lottery picks though? Playing time could be getting limited really soon for any of them to develop properly. Hot take here I've seen on reddit and I have to agree: they don't want Bamba. They want someone else who could be a top 5 pick. Danny is smoke-screening this sucker so he can take Jackson/Carter/Porter. I mean, Wendell Carter has been compared to Al Horford a lot. Do they need them? Not really at this moment, but they do have long-term needs. Replacement for Horford, Baynes, Morris, and maybe Rozier and/or Smart. I don't really disagree in theory about what you want to do. Just that offer was massive. Reminds me of the Winslow offer that turned into Rozier, Brown and other picks. I do agree its not Bamba, not because of fit or that he isn't good enough, just Danny doesn't tip his hand. I also wonder how legit the rumor even is though. It's just like the Porter rumor, basically based off the fact they meet him at the combine. The Winslow offer didn’t have anything to do with Brown... |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 6:42:48 GMT -5
If they want to get towards the top of the draft then that’s fine, but I wouldn’t be giving up both the Memphis and Sacramento pick. If Rozier, this years first and the Sacramento pick gets you there then I trust Danny that it’s a great player they are getting. The problem with that Sacramento pick is there is a chance it’s not a good pick. If it ends up first overall, all of a sudden that pick is in the 20s.
Rozier is very valuable to this team on several levels so while I’m ok with trading him I am not ok with just cashing in his value at its highest point regardless of what that is.
1. This team plans to win a championship as early as next year. You can’t assume everyone is healthy all year or even through the playoffs and regardless of that you need depth to win in the regular season and it can be helpful to get a couple games here and there in the playoffs.
2. He’s insurance for Kyrie - I expect Kyrie to be fine and to be extended and I think he’s way better than Rozier but there’s history and having a guy like Kyrie to be a back up plan is pretty sweet.
3. He allows you to let Smart walk. Like UMass said, staying under the luxury tax this year is very doable, can save a ton of money down the line and makes it more likely our owners can go well over in the future so as fans we might want to be rooting for that.
4. Remember come trade deadline we are always talking about trading picks for rentals to help us win right now. Why trade Rozier for that type of package when he can help us win right now? So you can say you didn’t lose him for nothing? What about the value of him on the court helping a team win now, even as a bench guy?
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 6:46:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 10:17:53 GMT -5
Do they need them? Not really at this moment, but they do have long-term needs. Replacement for Horford, Baynes, Morris, and maybe Rozier and/or Smart. I don't really disagree in theory about what you want to do. Just that offer was massive. Reminds me of the Winslow offer that turned into Rozier, Brown and other picks. I do agree its not Bamba, not because of fit or that he isn't good enough, just Danny doesn't tip his hand. I also wonder how legit the rumor even is though. It's just like the Porter rumor, basically based off the fact they meet him at the combine. The Winslow offer didn’t have anything to do with Brown... How do you figure that? Bill Simmons reported two of the picks turned into Rozier and Brown. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 11:57:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't let the small chance the Kings pick is number one influence me one bit. That teams new owners want them to win. Add the 2nd pick and free agents and it's not very likely that pick is #1. If anything I'd be worried the pick ends up being lower than expected. No reason to tank and we all know that makes a huge difference. Plus they just used up there luck moving from #6 to #2 in this draft.
Depth is great, but players need minutes. If you assume Stevens does his traditional starting lineup with a big like Baynes. You already have Hayward or Tatum coming off the bench. If you play a team like the Sixers where you need Baynes 30 minutes you are going to struggle to get those guys playing time. You could be looking at a Hayward, Tatum or Brown on the Bench during crunch time. So unless you have massive worries about Haywards health, Morris is more luxury than need. Semi gives you good insurance and while he looked lost on offense this year he should improve. Given the current talent he actually fits better. You won't need Morris to create offense on the second unit, you'll have Hayward or Tatum. I 100% agree you don't trade him to just trade him, but at his salary he should have very good value. I could see teams like Minny, Pacers or Portland willing to trade a pick for him this year. Those giving you more ammo to move up without trading our key assets.
Samething really applies to Smart and Rozier. You have plenty of room for one, but not both. A year ago Brown was a huge question mark. Now he's locked in for 30 plus minutes a night, add in Irving and you only have like 30 minutes available for both players. Sure injuries happen, but a guy like Larkin is more than good enough to be a #3 guard. You can't plan on season ending injuries every year. If you really think that is an issue, then you need to think really hard about keeping Irving. Frankly I'm not that worried for next year, its more of a down the road thing for me. So what do you do?
That question basically shapes the whole offseason. So many variables it makes my head hurt, but at the same time is crazy exciting. All depends on Roziers value, if your willing to pay him, along with Smarts value and what your willing to pay him. I have to think there's a zero percent chance you keep Irving, Rozier and Smart long-term. Heck there's a chance they might not be able to keep either Smart or Rozier after paying Irving long-term. So I will look at this from the point of view of who is easier to replace and who would be easier to trade if you gave him a contract. While you can't just easily find players like Smart, he's easier to replace than a Rozier. I also think Rozier will be easier to trade later on if given an extension or if you match an offer sheet. So I'd agree to help Smart get paid. Hoping that a sign and trade can get us some value for him, maybe a couple second round picks in this deep draft.
I would change my mind if a team offers a huge offer for Rozier, which could very well happen. There are a lot of teams that need a Rozier type player. Smart getting smart and realizing his value could also change things. It he's willing to expect mid-level money. I just don't think that happens for a few years. He's going to think its restrictive free agency if he can't get a deal this year, so it could take to next year for him to fully understand his value. Players don't get paid near max money based off hustle, but rather skill level.
So what's a huge offer for Rozier in your guys opinion?
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 13:20:45 GMT -5
The Winslow offer didn’t have anything to do with Brown... How do you figure that? Bill Simmons reported two of the picks turned into Rozier and Brown. The Celtics didn’t offer a Brooklyn pick to trade up from 16 to 9 to draft Winslow. Is that what you’re saying or am I missing something? |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 13:35:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't let the small chance the Kings pick is number one influence me one bit. That teams new owners want them to win. Add the 2nd pick and free agents and it's not very likely that pick is #1. If anything I'd be worried the pick ends up being lower than expected. No reason to tank and we all know that makes a huge difference. Plus they just used up there luck moving from #6 to #2 in this draft. Depth is great, but players need minutes. If you assume Stevens does his traditional starting lineup with a big like Baynes. You already have Hayward or Tatum coming off the bench. If you play a team like the Sixers where you need Baynes 30 minutes you are going to struggle to get those guys playing time. You could be looking at a Hayward, Tatum or Brown on the Bench during crunch time. So unless you have massive worries about Haywards health, Morris is more luxury than need. Semi gives you good insurance and while he looked lost on offense this year he should improve. Given the current talent he actually fits better. You won't need Morris to create offense on the second unit, you'll have Hayward or Tatum. I 100% agree you don't trade him to just trade him, but at his salary he should have very good value. I could see teams like Minny, Pacers or Portland willing to trade a pick for him this year. Those giving you more ammo to move up without trading our key assets. Samething really applies to Smart and Rozier. You have plenty of room for one, but not both. A year ago Brown was a huge question mark. Now he's locked in for 30 plus minutes a night, add in Irving and you only have like 30 minutes available for both players. Sure injuries happen, but a guy like Larkin is more than good enough to be a #3 guard. You can't plan on season ending injuries every year. If you really think that is an issue, then you need to think really hard about keeping Irving. Frankly I'm not that worried for next year, its more of a down the road thing for me. So what do you do? That question basically shapes the whole offseason. So many variables it makes my head hurt, but at the same time is crazy exciting. All depends on Roziers value, if your willing to pay him, along with Smarts value and what your willing to pay him. I have to think there's a zero percent chance you keep Irving, Rozier and Smart long-term. Heck there's a chance they might not be able to keep either Smart or Rozier after paying Irving long-term. So I will look at this from the point of view of who is easier to replace and who would be easier to trade if you gave him a contract. While you can't just easily find players like Smart, he's easier to replace than a Rozier. I also think Rozier will be easier to trade later on if given an extension or if you match an offer sheet. So I'd agree to help Smart get paid. Hoping that a sign and trade can get us some value for him, maybe a couple second round picks in this deep draft. I would change my mind if a team offers a huge offer for Rozier, which could very well happen. There are a lot of teams that need a Rozier type player. Smart getting smart and realizing his value could also change things. It he's willing to expect mid-level money. I just don't think that happens for a few years. He's going to think its restrictive free agency if he can't get a deal this year, so it could take to next year for him to fully understand his value. Players don't get paid near max money based off hustle, but rather skill level. So what's a huge offer for Rozier in your guys opinion? For the record, I wasn’t referring to the Celtics issue with the Kings pick, more the receiving team. Imagine your top 10 lottery pick turns into pick 26... so protections would likely be put in to let that roll over to the Memphis pick if the Kings/Philly pick ends up outside the lottery or whatever. Sign and trade for Smart will be difficult with the cap situation. This is my understanding of sign and trades: Say Smart signs for 16m per in the sign and trade. He’d count 16m towards the new team in a sign and trade but only for 8m on the Celtics side. So the new team needs to have 16m in space to absorb that contract with only shipping back 8. So any team over or right up against the cap the sign and trade won’t work. Any team with enough money to sign him outright would just sign him without having to give back anything. A salary dump would be only motive not to and the Celtics wouldn’t want that. So that leaves teams that have cap room but are just short of being able to fit his salary in. It’s possible but limits things. The NBA changed these rules to make it hard to do. A good enough package to trade Rozier would be something like a top 10 pick this year or say Ainge loves a guy who fell to the Clippers range in the late lottery where ideally you just trade him and not our first as well. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 14:44:17 GMT -5
How do you figure that? Bill Simmons reported two of the picks turned into Rozier and Brown. The Celtics didn’t offer a Brooklyn pick to trade up from 16 to 9 to draft Winslow. Is that what you’re saying or am I missing something? That is what Bill Simmons said, a very well connected die hard Celtics fan. From what I've gathered the offered the same package for the 8th, 9th and 10th pick. Danny loved Winslow like he loved Brown and Tatum. Danny while never comfirming what the actual trade was said sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. That was before Rozier took off, so it makes sense. He was looking at Brown and Rozier compared to Winslow at the time. Given the timing of that comment it makes zero sense if it was just Rozier, RJ Hunter, Mickey and that Sixers pick that turned into two seconds. Not sure why you think thats crazy when your talking about trading Rozier, Kings pick, Grizz pick and our first to move into the 5-8 range of a draft. That's why I brought up that trade, it seems crazy. Right now that Kings pick has about the same value as the Nets pick, little less because of the #1 protection. The Grizz pick isn't far behind, Rozier right now is worth a lottery pick and our late first. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 15:49:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't let the small chance the Kings pick is number one influence me one bit. That teams new owners want them to win. Add the 2nd pick and free agents and it's not very likely that pick is #1. If anything I'd be worried the pick ends up being lower than expected. No reason to tank and we all know that makes a huge difference. Plus they just used up there luck moving from #6 to #2 in this draft. Depth is great, but players need minutes. If you assume Stevens does his traditional starting lineup with a big like Baynes. You already have Hayward or Tatum coming off the bench. If you play a team like the Sixers where you need Baynes 30 minutes you are going to struggle to get those guys playing time. You could be looking at a Hayward, Tatum or Brown on the Bench during crunch time. So unless you have massive worries about Haywards health, Morris is more luxury than need. Semi gives you good insurance and while he looked lost on offense this year he should improve. Given the current talent he actually fits better. You won't need Morris to create offense on the second unit, you'll have Hayward or Tatum. I 100% agree you don't trade him to just trade him, but at his salary he should have very good value. I could see teams like Minny, Pacers or Portland willing to trade a pick for him this year. Those giving you more ammo to move up without trading our key assets. Samething really applies to Smart and Rozier. You have plenty of room for one, but not both. A year ago Brown was a huge question mark. Now he's locked in for 30 plus minutes a night, add in Irving and you only have like 30 minutes available for both players. Sure injuries happen, but a guy like Larkin is more than good enough to be a #3 guard. You can't plan on season ending injuries every year. If you really think that is an issue, then you need to think really hard about keeping Irving. Frankly I'm not that worried for next year, its more of a down the road thing for me. So what do you do? That question basically shapes the whole offseason. So many variables it makes my head hurt, but at the same time is crazy exciting. All depends on Roziers value, if your willing to pay him, along with Smarts value and what your willing to pay him. I have to think there's a zero percent chance you keep Irving, Rozier and Smart long-term. Heck there's a chance they might not be able to keep either Smart or Rozier after paying Irving long-term. So I will look at this from the point of view of who is easier to replace and who would be easier to trade if you gave him a contract. While you can't just easily find players like Smart, he's easier to replace than a Rozier. I also think Rozier will be easier to trade later on if given an extension or if you match an offer sheet. So I'd agree to help Smart get paid. Hoping that a sign and trade can get us some value for him, maybe a couple second round picks in this deep draft. I would change my mind if a team offers a huge offer for Rozier, which could very well happen. There are a lot of teams that need a Rozier type player. Smart getting smart and realizing his value could also change things. It he's willing to expect mid-level money. I just don't think that happens for a few years. He's going to think its restrictive free agency if he can't get a deal this year, so it could take to next year for him to fully understand his value. Players don't get paid near max money based off hustle, but rather skill level. So what's a huge offer for Rozier in your guys opinion? For the record, I wasn’t referring to the Celtics issue with the Kings pick, more the receiving team. Imagine your top 10 lottery pick turns into pick 26... so protections would likely be put in to let that roll over to the Memphis pick if the Kings/Philly pick ends up outside the lottery or whatever. Sign and trade for Smart will be difficult with the cap situation. This is my understanding of sign and trades: Say Smart signs for 16m per in the sign and trade. He’d count 16m towards the new team in a sign and trade but only for 8m on the Celtics side. So the new team needs to have 16m in space to absorb that contract with only shipping back 8. So any team over or right up against the cap the sign and trade won’t work. Any team with enough money to sign him outright would just sign him without having to give back anything. A salary dump would be only motive not to and the Celtics wouldn’t want that. So that leaves teams that have cap room but are just short of being able to fit his salary in. It’s possible but limits things. The NBA changed these rules to make it hard to do. A good enough package to trade Rozier would be something like a top 10 pick this year or say Ainge loves a guy who fell to the Clippers range in the late lottery where ideally you just trade him and not our first as well. I have no idea about that new rule and its not very clear when reading about it. From what I've read I think you have it slightly wrong. Trade rules still apply, meaning it seems designed that only teams under the cap can do a sign and trade. Meaning if you trade Smart for lets say 10 million, you can only take back 5 million. Yet that trade doesn't work under the trade rules, it needs to be 175% plus 100,000. Yet the sign and trade rules require 200%, so Boston would have to be under the cap or have a trade exception. That's my take on it, after reading up on it, but it really makes zero sense. One note is that it only applies to when players have BYC criteria, having used the players bird rights. Which would certainly happen in Smarts case. Maybe a 3 team trade could make it work, but that's too complicated. So scratch that. Even if he just signs the QO, he can block a trade because he would lose his bird rights. So he can't sign it, then be traded and get a huge extension. Good lesson though, because it shows if your not resigning Rozier long-term you won't have any options to get value from him this time next year. Which kinda sucks. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on May 31, 2018 17:34:14 GMT -5
The Celtics didn’t offer a Brooklyn pick to trade up from 16 to 9 to draft Winslow. Is that what you’re saying or am I missing something? That is what Bill Simmons said, a very well connected die hard Celtics fan. From what I've gathered the offered the same package for the 8th, 9th and 10th pick. Danny loved Winslow like he loved Brown and Tatum. Danny while never comfirming what the actual trade was said sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. That was before Rozier took off, so it makes sense. He was looking at Brown and Rozier compared to Winslow at the time. Given the timing of that comment it makes zero sense if it was just Rozier, RJ Hunter, Mickey and that Sixers pick that turned into two seconds. Not sure why you think thats crazy when your talking about trading Rozier, Kings pick, Grizz pick and our first to move into the 5-8 range of a draft. That's why I brought up that trade, it seems crazy. Right now that Kings pick has about the same value as the Nets pick, little less because of the #1 protection. The Grizz pick isn't far behind, Rozier right now is worth a lottery pick and our late first. I actually said that package would not be a good trade was just passing on the report. Don’t conflate the two. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 18:02:34 GMT -5
That is what Bill Simmons said, a very well connected die hard Celtics fan. From what I've gathered the offered the same package for the 8th, 9th and 10th pick. Danny loved Winslow like he loved Brown and Tatum. Danny while never comfirming what the actual trade was said sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. That was before Rozier took off, so it makes sense. He was looking at Brown and Rozier compared to Winslow at the time. Given the timing of that comment it makes zero sense if it was just Rozier, RJ Hunter, Mickey and that Sixers pick that turned into two seconds. Not sure why you think thats crazy when your talking about trading Rozier, Kings pick, Grizz pick and our first to move into the 5-8 range of a draft. That's why I brought up that trade, it seems crazy. Right now that Kings pick has about the same value as the Nets pick, little less because of the #1 protection. The Grizz pick isn't far behind, Rozier right now is worth a lottery pick and our late first. I actually said that package would not be a good trade was just passing on the report. Don’t conflate the two. I get you passed on the Bamba report, but that second part wasn't your opinion of what you thought it would take? |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on May 31, 2018 23:09:08 GMT -5
In Basketball always take the best player. I'll admit its hard to do, we really need a big. I've watched video on almost every top 60 rated C and PF, but only a few other players like Okogie. Just think back to taking Rozier, we already had Thomas and Smart at PG, yet Danny took another one. He hardly played year one, didn't play a ton year two and became Scary Terry in year three. So if Danny loves another SF, gets great value for Rozier and basically had to trade because we can't afford him. I'm ok with that. I trust Danny and talent always wins out in the NBA.
If no one falls, one player in that range that is very interesting is Robert Williams. The guys a defensive monster, highly athletic, yet crazy raw.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 1, 2018 6:33:01 GMT -5
I actually said that package would not be a good trade was just passing on the report. Don’t conflate the two. I get you passed on the Bamba report, but that second part wasn't your opinion of what you thought it would take? That’s what was reported it would likely take as part of the report. I can’t really venture a guess of what it would take but I know what I won’t like. Btw, I like Bamba but I need to know more about him. I feel like this team needs an offensive Center - Horford may not score a lot but he’s an offensive guy. Ability to score - facilitator etc. If I had to bet right now, Jackson is a great fit for this squad. Athletic, rim protection, rebounding and 3 point range. Plus, we haven’t been linked to him. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 1, 2018 10:21:34 GMT -5
I get you passed on the Bamba report, but that second part wasn't your opinion of what you thought it would take? That’s what was reported it would likely take as part of the report. I can’t really venture a guess of what it would take but I know what I won’t like. Btw, I like Bamba but I need to know more about him. I feel like this team needs an offensive Center - Horford may not score a lot but he’s an offensive guy. Ability to score - facilitator etc. If I had to bet right now, Jackson is a great fit for this squad. Athletic, rim protection, rebounding and 3 point range. Plus, we haven’t been linked to him. I asked because I really didn't believe the reports, because they were all seemingly based off the fact we met with him at the combine, just like the Porter reports. So I did a ton of research on them, reading everyone I could find. What I found was offers similar to what you said, but different. They were Brown or Rozier, Kings or Grizz pick and our first. It wasn't both the Kings and Grizz pick. Also a guy that checked in with Celtics said take it with a grain of salt. Basically the report is just based off the Celtics meeting with Bamba, no information from the Celtics. Which makes total sense way too early in the process for the Celtics to know who they want even if they want to make a trade. Even if they really liked a certain player, they would need to finish the process so they have a full understanding of the whole draft and can set a draft board. I agree on Jackson. He's raw in the post, but man he looks like a young KG/Chris Bosh. Highly athletic and he makes a bunch of plays. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 1, 2018 10:47:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 2, 2018 12:08:33 GMT -5
Ford got fired during those big cuts at ESPN and replaced by the draftexpress guy. So I don't know if we will get a tier ranking this year. ESPNs draft coverage sucks so far. There top 10 per position rankings and player bios are from the start of the college basketball season. Zero updates, I'm about to cancel my insider after 20 plus years. Danny commented calling this draft nothing special. Called it an average draft, but liked it depth and the players we could get at 27. I tend to agree. I like the top of the draft a lot, but I don't see an epic number of tier 1 and tier 2 players like last year. Also by the time you get past the 14-16 range I don't see a big difference all the way to the top of the second round, heck maybe mid second round. Examples being players like Gary Trent Jr, and Anfernee Simmons are 18 and 19 in one mock and mid second round in another.
In my opinion,
Tier one- Ayton
Tier two- Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Donic, Porter and Carter
Tier three- Young, Sexton, Mikal Bridges, Knox, and Miles Bridges
Tier four- Gilgeous-Alexander, Robert Williams, and Lonnie Walker.
I feel strongly about Ayton in tier one, I could see Bagley and Donic getting tier one votes. I also feel strongly about tier two, but could see Porter and Carter maybe getting tier 3 votes. I put Donic in tier two because some people love him, but I almost put him in tier 3. I have some big time worries about his game. Young is a guy I bet would get some tier 2 votes, but he's tier 3 I think. Overall tier three and four was the hardest part of all this. Some tier fours might be tier three and vice versa. I might have also left off a player or two, just haven't had enough time yet to look at every player. I am fairly confident that after tier four there is a big drop off, even if I missed a player or two.
So what do you guys think?
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 2, 2018 14:50:46 GMT -5
I think you should cancel insider. I try to not even click on ESPN links. Screw them, maybe if enough people boycott them they’ll get back to being good. Unfortunately, it’s been a looong time since their overall content has been worth while.
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 2, 2018 19:34:58 GMT -5
Ford got fired during those big cuts at ESPN and replaced by the draftexpress guy. So I don't know if we will get a tier ranking this year. ESPNs draft coverage sucks so far. There top 10 per position rankings and player bios are from the start of the college basketball season. Zero updates, I'm about to cancel my insider after 20 plus years. Danny commented calling this draft nothing special. Called it an average draft, but liked it depth and the players we could get at 27. I tend to agree. I like the top of the draft a lot, but I don't see an epic number of tier 1 and tier 2 players like last year. Also by the time you get past the 14-16 range I don't see a big difference all the way to the top of the second round, heck maybe mid second round. Examples being players like Gary Trent Jr, and Anfernee Simmons are 18 and 19 in one mock and mid second round in another. In my opinion, Tier one- Ayton Tier two- Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Donic, Porter and Carter Tier three- Young, Sexton, Mikal Bridges, Knox, and Miles Bridges Tier four- Gilgeous-Alexander, Robert Williams, and Lonnie Walker. I feel strongly about Ayton in tier one, I could see Bagley and Donic getting tier one votes. I also feel strongly about tier two, but could see Porter and Carter maybe getting tier 3 votes. I put Donic in tier two because some people love him, but I almost put him in tier 3. I have some big time worries about his game. Young is a guy I bet would get some tier 2 votes, but he's tier 3 I think. Overall tier three and four was the hardest part of all this. Some tier fours might be tier three and vice versa. I might have also left off a player or two, just haven't had enough time yet to look at every player. I am fairly confident that after tier four there is a big drop off, even if I missed a player or two. So what do you guys think? I think that based on past drafts, potential and overall talent that all but Carter from your tier 2 are tier one talents. Within this draft yes Ayton IMO is the #1 but also IMO this draft is loaded with guys who are tier 1. Look at what Bagley has done and tell me he isn't a tier 1 player. He dominated the best league in college Bball and it wasn't even close. Doncic has done something no other draft eligible player has ever done in the Euro league, win the MVP. How are those 2 not tier 1? Just saying IMO this draft is loaded. Yes Porter is a question mark because of the injury but he was #1 in this draft a year ago. 6 years from now we will look back on this draft and say WOW! I think..... |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 2, 2018 20:57:43 GMT -5
Just a reminder of the player people are forgetting about.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 3, 2018 1:58:46 GMT -5
Ford got fired during those big cuts at ESPN and replaced by the draftexpress guy. So I don't know if we will get a tier ranking this year. ESPNs draft coverage sucks so far. There top 10 per position rankings and player bios are from the start of the college basketball season. Zero updates, I'm about to cancel my insider after 20 plus years. Danny commented calling this draft nothing special. Called it an average draft, but liked it depth and the players we could get at 27. I tend to agree. I like the top of the draft a lot, but I don't see an epic number of tier 1 and tier 2 players like last year. Also by the time you get past the 14-16 range I don't see a big difference all the way to the top of the second round, heck maybe mid second round. Examples being players like Gary Trent Jr, and Anfernee Simmons are 18 and 19 in one mock and mid second round in another. In my opinion, Tier one- Ayton Tier two- Bagley, Jackson, Bamba, Donic, Porter and Carter Tier three- Young, Sexton, Mikal Bridges, Knox, and Miles Bridges Tier four- Gilgeous-Alexander, Robert Williams, and Lonnie Walker. I feel strongly about Ayton in tier one, I could see Bagley and Donic getting tier one votes. I also feel strongly about tier two, but could see Porter and Carter maybe getting tier 3 votes. I put Donic in tier two because some people love him, but I almost put him in tier 3. I have some big time worries about his game. Young is a guy I bet would get some tier 2 votes, but he's tier 3 I think. Overall tier three and four was the hardest part of all this. Some tier fours might be tier three and vice versa. I might have also left off a player or two, just haven't had enough time yet to look at every player. I am fairly confident that after tier four there is a big drop off, even if I missed a player or two. So what do you guys think? I think that based on past drafts, potential and overall talent that all but Carter from your tier 2 are tier one talents. Within this draft yes Ayton IMO is the #1 but also IMO this draft is loaded with guys who are tier 1. Look at what Bagley has done and tell me he isn't a tier 1 player. He dominated the best league in college Bball and it wasn't even close. Doncic has done something no other draft eligible player has ever done in the Euro league, win the MVP. How are those 2 not tier 1? Just saying IMO this draft is loaded. Yes Porter is a question mark because of the injury but he was #1 in this draft a year ago. 6 years from now we will look back on this draft and say WOW! I think..... Chad Fords tier rankings were voted on by all the teams, so you got a consensus. This is just my opinion, kinda like looking at only one teams opinion and not all 30 which the tier ranking was. I also took what Danny Ainge said about the drafts overall strength heavily into my rankings. If its an average drafts, but has great depth, that means the lottery and first round have to be weaker than normal. In eight years of Ford doing the tier rankings only 10 players were tier one, which is superstar or surefire all star, compared to tier two which is all-star potential. So its not really a slight to be a tier two guy. Tatum was a tier two guy that got tier one votes for example and Brown was a tier three guy, that got tier 4 votes. The difference from tier one to tier two is having one weakness that could stop you from becoming a superstar player. For Tatum it was shooting, which turned out to be wrong, but made sense at the time given the data. I can certainly see some teams having Bagley tier one. At the same time scouts have worries about him, a bunch call him a tweener because they feel his game is that of a center, but he's in a PFs body. Strength has been mentioned, along with not liking his shot. Plus they think he lacks defensive insticts and his fundamentals are bad. He basically gets by with athleticism now, but that won't work in the NBA. I know that sounds harsh, but there are questions scouts have that for me drop him to tier two. He has a very unique game. It certainly doesn't mean he won't be great, a ton of tier two guys are. He's just not Ayton, who has everything you want in an NBA center. Donic is very simple he's not a great athlete, its much more about his crazy good skills. Those skills are great and allow him to be a star in Euro league. The NBA is just a different league, with a different game. It's full of top level athletes. Nevermind scouts can't even agree if he's a PG or SF in the NBA. He struggles guarding players in the Euro league. He's one of those guys some people love and others have some big questions on. He's going to be a good player, but how good? I don't disagree that the top of this draft could be really good in time. There's just no way it has six tier one prospects, based on how Fords tier system works and its history. That would be the most epic draft in recent memory, heck maybe all-time. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 3, 2018 5:54:15 GMT -5
OK umass I see your point, I guess I am being a bit liberal with tier 1 rankings. That being said I do still think that this draft will turn out to be epic when looked back on it.
If you are looking at the difference between a star and a superstar where is the line? How many superstars are there in the NBA ? 5... 10 What qualifies? I look at Fords list of guys who were ranked tier 1 and IMO only Davis qualifies at this point. There are some that it is early and they can still get there but for Ball and Fultz to make the list is a little suspect. I understand that it is a collaboration with all the teams but how does Ball and that funky shot get superstar status?
How does Philly open up in Vegas having better odds to win the championship next year than the C's? 7/2 vs 8/1 I get that they have cap space and will add someone in FA but the C's beat them and have 2 all stars coming back. Oh well, I expect the C's players will see that and be motivated by the slight. Next year can't get here soon enough.
|
|
|
