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7/26-7/29 Red Sox vs. Twins Series Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 27, 2018 23:42:06 GMT -5
ESPN Stats & Info Verified account @espnstatsinfo Follow Follow @espnstatsinfo
Chris Sale in his past six starts: 39 IP, 1 ER, 67 K
Per @eliassports, he's the only pitcher since the mound moved to its current distance in 1893 with 60 strikeouts and one or fewer runs allowed in a six-game span.
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Post by cheers on Jul 27, 2018 23:47:44 GMT -5
ESPN Stats & Info Verified account @espnstatsinfo Follow Follow @espnstatsinfo Chris Sale in his past six starts: 39 IP, 1 ER, 67 K Per @eliassports, he's the only pitcher since the mound moved to its current distance in 1893 with 60 strikeouts and one or fewer runs allowed in a six-game span. simply amazing. i'm sometimes critical of Cora, but what he is doing to preserve the rotation is EXACTLY what I want him to do. Thx for the link.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 28, 2018 6:03:54 GMT -5
How big would it be if that HR gets Devers streaking They're the best team in baseball with a so-so Devers and Bradley. And they start Eduardo at 2B most of the time. The fact that there even is some clear room for improvement is astonishing. The point is that the Sox have been doing this somewhat with smoke and mirrors recently. They really have too many holes for a near .700 ball club. Little production from C. 2B an issue. Bradley hasn't hit more than very sporadically yet. Devers has been hanging on both offensively and defensively. The bullpen is turning into more and more of a game of Russian roulette. The rotation is uncertain, with Price being very inconsistent and the Sox testing their depth at the final two rotation spots. Now, no small part of this is injuries, and that's the rub of the green. But the fact is, they are showing cracks that often precede a fade, and what is going to keep them going anywhere near what they've done so far this season is rejuvenation from some of the guys who haven't pulled their full weight. Price refinding himself on a consistent basis. Devers turning a corner on both sides of the ball. Maybe Swihart contributing more in a role-sharing responsibility. Thornburg finally emerging from the shadows of injury. Nunez somehow upgrading his play, if Cora insists on putting him on 2B the majority of the time. Of course, the real issue, since they've built up so much of a cushion record-wise, is how well the team is ready to play on Oct. 1. I, as many others here, am astounded by what this team has accomplished. But honestly, this doesn't really look or feel like an historically good baseball team right now, even though their record says they are to this point. Maybe I ought to shut up and listen to Ted Leonsis: "At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are."
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 28, 2018 6:11:38 GMT -5
Interesting. That was Mookie's first career walkoff HR.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 28, 2018 6:22:10 GMT -5
They're the best team in baseball with a so-so Devers and Bradley. And they start Eduardo at 2B most of the time. The fact that there even is some clear room for improvement is astonishing. The point is that the Sox have been doing this somewhat with smoke and mirrors recently. They really have too many holes for a near .700 ball club. Little production from C. 2B an issue. Bradley hasn't hit more than very sporadically yet. Devers has been hanging on both offensively and defensively. The bullpen is turning into more and more of a game of Russian roulette. The rotation is uncertain, with Price being very inconsistent and the Sox testing their depth at the final two rotation spots. Now, no small part of this is injuries, and that's the rub of the green. But the fact is, they are showing cracks that often precede a fade, and what is going to keep them going anywhere near what they've done so far this season is rejuvenation from some of the guys who haven't pulled their full weight. Price refinding himself on a consistent basis. Devers turning a corner on both sides of the ball. Maybe Swihart contributing more in a role-sharing responsibility. Thornburg finally emerging from the shadows of injury. Nunez somehow upgrading his play, if Cora insists on putting him on 2B the majority of the time. Of course, the real issue, since they've built up so much of a cushion record-wise, is how well the team is ready to play on Oct. 1. I, as many others here, am astounded by what this team has accomplished. But honestly, this doesn't really look or feel like an historically good baseball team right now, even though their record says they are to this point. Maybe I ought to shut up and listen to Ted Leonsis: "At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are." They are first in runs scored third in least runs allowed. That's not smoke and mirrors, it's a pretty girl looking in a mirror and only seeing a pimple. The Mariners are smoke and mirrors.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 28, 2018 6:36:57 GMT -5
Yeah the holes are obvious, but you overlook the strengths if you focus too much on the holes.
-Chris Sale is on one of the best streaks in MLB history. -JD Martinez has arguably been the best free agent signing since David Ortiz. -I picked on Mookie a little yesterday (hitting under .200 since the allstar break) and yet he's still hitting over .340 while hitting walk off homeruns.
The top heavy part of this team is barreling over opponents into submission. That's a huge reason why the Sox record is what it is. The top 5 hitters on this lineup are really really good. Chris Sale is impossible to beat these days. Kimbrel blew his 3rd save all year yesterday. Eduardo was having a career year to this point until the injury.
You want to focus on the catching, 2nd base, and middle relief, it's fair. These issues haven't been a huge reason why they win or lose this year. The top heavy talent is why they're winning so much. The top talent are putting up HOF numbers right now.
However this is the same talent that's going to need to carry the Sox into October. Sale needs a historic run in October for example. So does Mookie, and Martinez and so on.
The bullpen could be the reason why this team doesn't win it all though. The Astros made a really nice under the radar bullpen move yesterday and are sporting the best pitching staff in all of baseball. So there's that.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 28, 2018 7:12:27 GMT -5
Oh, I don't question the numbers of the team's stars. They are unquestionably great. But I think this team may be headed for the group equivalent of the Lou Merloni syndrome.
There are certain players that are excellent bench/utility players for a reason. They can be valuable fill-ins -- for awhile, but if they are overexposed their issues tend to surface. I suspect the same thing may happen at a team level. The players who are the fill-ins may be good enough to sustain superior team performance for awhile, but sooner or later those relative weaknesses will show themselves and affect the team success.
Now with this team, there MAY be an antidote, and that is that the relative weak links in some cases do have potential to upgrade their performance. I'm talking about JBJ and Kelley, and to a lesser extent Devers.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Jul 28, 2018 7:43:32 GMT -5
Yesterday's critical hits 1. JBJ 2 run HR 2. Devers 9th inning game tying HR 3. Betts walk off HR
I guess JDM isn't pulling his weight now?
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Post by patford on Jul 28, 2018 7:48:52 GMT -5
If the Sox are smoke and mirrors what does that make the Yankees and other teams ?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 28, 2018 7:53:31 GMT -5
Yeah I'm negative but not completely naive. If you can't realize what's happening or how the Sox are winning *when it's pretty obvious why they are,* then I don't know what to tell you.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2018 8:55:22 GMT -5
They're the best team in baseball with a so-so Devers and Bradley. And they start Eduardo at 2B most of the time. The fact that there even is some clear room for improvement is astonishing. The point is that the Sox have been doing this somewhat with smoke and mirrors recently. They really have too many holes for a near .700 ball club. Little production from C. 2B an issue. Bradley hasn't hit more than very sporadically yet. Devers has been hanging on both offensively and defensively. The bullpen is turning into more and more of a game of Russian roulette. The rotation is uncertain, with Price being very inconsistent and the Sox testing their depth at the final two rotation spots. Now, no small part of this is injuries, and that's the rub of the green. But the fact is, they are showing cracks that often precede a fade, and what is going to keep them going anywhere near what they've done so far this season is rejuvenation from some of the guys who haven't pulled their full weight. Price refinding himself on a consistent basis. Devers turning a corner on both sides of the ball. Maybe Swihart contributing more in a role-sharing responsibility. Thornburg finally emerging from the shadows of injury. Nunez somehow upgrading his play, if Cora insists on putting him on 2B the majority of the time. Of course, the real issue, since they've built up so much of a cushion record-wise, is how well the team is ready to play on Oct. 1. I, as many others here, am astounded by what this team has accomplished. But honestly, this doesn't really look or feel like an historically good baseball team right now, even though their record says they are to this point. Maybe I ought to shut up and listen to Ted Leonsis: "At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are." I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I know why you're getting pushback. It's because the Sox are on top in runs scored which screams out, "This ain't luck!". It's not luck and that's not what I think you mean. You look at the lineup and they are below league average offensively in 4 of the 9 lineup spots I believe - which is catcher, 2b, cf, and 3b. That's a lot of below average production spots, almost half the lineup. But it hasn't hurt them because Mookie Betts and JD Martinez have been THAT otherwordly. I mean they're OPSing well over 1.000 and quietly Benintendi is OPSing over .900 while Bogaerts and Moreland have been excellent offensively at their positions. In other words their lineup is very top heavy. You can only imagine how much better they can be if they could bring their lineup to league average in the other 4 spots, but it doesn't really make sense to upgrade three of those spots because Devers is young and learning, and can put it all together at some point this season, although it's more likely next season, and at the least he contributes power. JBJ won't be able to wipe away his awfulness the first two months of the season, but if he continues to hit (big if with JBJ as yearlong consistency is not his thing) and plays his first rate defense, nobody (except Demainer) would trade him or go for an upgrade. With catching, the upgrade options are limited and the Sox love Leon's game calling and have committed $ to Vazqez, and even have plenty of upside for Swihart to explore if they gave him a shot. So that leaves 2b where Holt is doing well, but wears down as an everyday player and so then they have to decide on continuing with Nunez who has not been the same player he was last year and is lousy in every way or hoping Brandon Phillips can shake off the rust and be a viable player or take a shot at a guy like Dozier or Kinsler who are starting to hit better and are good defensive players who can lengthen the lineup. So really, 2b is the only way to upgrade this lineup that is better than it appears, and it could perhaps help make the lineup less top-heavy and more balanced. The starting rotation leans heavily on Sale. E-Rod is a potential stud who was starting to scratch his potential, but still is unable to give a lot of innings. Price and Porcello are solid innings eaters, and the Sox have got amazing mix and match outings between Wright, Johnson, and Velazquez and now are auditioning Pomeranz and hope they got a potential stud in Eovaldi. The pen has two guys they have regularly counted on: Kimbrel and Barnes. Everything else has been patchwork, amazing patchwork where Kelly started off well, and now Brasier, Thornburg, and Hembree have picked up the slack. You really don't know which relievers you'll truly be able to count on in October, but the depth is big so they have a lot of question mark options that are real possibilities but also carry a lot of uncertainty. So with the pitching staff there are a lot of little surprises that add up, particularly in the pen - and I think that's a reflection on how good of a job of managing that Alex Cora has done. So yes, this is a great team, an amazingly great team, but one that has question marks like all other teams (but less), but has lacked the black holes that most of the other teams have, which has reflected in the W/L record. So this IS the best Red Sox team in my 40 years of watching - by far and they are also the most astounding regular season team. They win games at times that I think they have no business winning, whether it's coming back or stubbornly holding on - getting the key out when the law of averages dictate otherwise, although yesterday the law of averages finally got to Kimbrel and they found a way to win the game anyways! As far as regular season teams go, this team definitely has the IT factor. Can't explain what IT is, but you do know it when you see it. It's some sort of intangible unmeasureable thing. Whatever it is they do got IT, even if I sometimes forget from time to time. They've been a total joy to watch. Hopefully they'll continue to be when I actually watch them live tomorrow!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 28, 2018 9:14:55 GMT -5
For me, a Sale, Porcello, ERod, Eovaldi playoff rotation with Price added to the pen would be pretty formidable.
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Post by jchang on Jul 28, 2018 10:35:16 GMT -5
Yesterday's critical hits 1. JBJ 2 run HR 2. Devers 9th inning game tying HR 3. Betts walk off HR I guess JDM isn't pulling his weight now? DFA the bum, no patience for slackers
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 28, 2018 10:51:45 GMT -5
To anyone who thinks we need to trade for a reliever, may I remind you of the following;
Addison Reed Andrew Bailey Eric Gagné Joel Hanrahan Mark Melançon Matt Thornton Scott Sauerbeck
Getting a glove-first infielder is the easiest way to improve this team.
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Post by patford on Jul 28, 2018 10:54:21 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is saying the Sox have no weaknesses. Every other team has weaknesses. If Chris Sale had three bad starts in a row some people here would be ripping their hair out in panic.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2018 11:19:58 GMT -5
To anyone who thinks we need to trade for a reliever, may I remind you of the following; Addison Reed Andrew Bailey Eric Gagné Joel Hanrahan Mark Melançon Matt Thornton Scott Sauerbeck Getting a glove-first infielder is the easiest way to improve this team. You forgot Alan Embree and Mike Myers who came in deals and were contributors to the 2004 team. The 1986 team didn't add any relief help midseason other than to promote Calvin Schiraldi. Maybe they should have? Might have been the difference between them winning the World Series and losing the World Series. The point is unless you're giving up Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen, you don't normally trade for relief help but if you can use it and the price isn't too high (and really that's the big factor), you add it. There's no such thing as you have too much pitching.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2018 11:24:11 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is saying the Sox have no weaknesses. Every other team has weaknesses. If Chris Sale had three bad starts in a row some people here would be ripping their hair out in panic. I would be, especially if his stuff looks different, because that would be an indication that he might be injured. Bad outing happen. Kimbrel had one yesterday. Not the end of the world. Law of averages and everything. Look at Joe Kelly for instance. Are you concerned about Kelly and how he will perform the rest of the year? I am. He might get on a hot streak again, but he's certainly not in my circle of trust. Is he in yours?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2018 11:27:02 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is saying the Sox have no weaknesses. Every other team has weaknesses. If Chris Sale had three bad starts in a row some people here would be ripping their hair out in panic. I would be, especially if his stuff looks different, because that would be an indication that he might be injured. Bad outing happen. Kimbrel had one yesterday. Not the end of the world. Law of averages and everything. Look at Joe Kelly for instance. Are you concerned about Kelly and how he will perform the rest of the year? I am. He might get on a hot streak again, but he's certainly not in my circle of trust. Is he in yours? I think Brasier and Thornburg have more than replaced Kelly already. And they may surpass Barnes as well.
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Post by patford on Jul 28, 2018 11:30:33 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is saying the Sox have no weaknesses. Every other team has weaknesses. If Chris Sale had three bad starts in a row some people here would be ripping their hair out in panic. I would be, especially if his stuff looks different, because that would be an indication that he might be injured. Bad outing happen. Kimbrel had one yesterday. Not the end of the world. Law of averages and everything. Look at Joe Kelly for instance. Are you concerned about Kelly and how he will perform the rest of the year? I am. He might get on a hot streak again, but he's certainly not in my circle of trust. Is he in yours? Given his track record I expect Kelly will begin pitching well again. Hopefully at the best possible time. Earlier this season some here were saying the Sox needed to extend Kelly because he was looking like a low cost replacement for Kimbrel who could then be allowed to sign elsewhere.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 28, 2018 11:51:41 GMT -5
Seriously, I’ve been watching the Sox for a LONG time, and Mookie’s the most electric position player in my lifetime. With all due respect to Yaz, Lynn, Boggs, Nomar, Manny...Mookie does everything as well as any of them, or better, and he does it ALL. What a joy it is to have this guy on our team. Edit: OK, he’s not quite Boggs with the walks or BA, but damned if he doesn’t look like he might be soon enough. Mookie is electric. No doubt about it. Trout might well be the best player in the game or maybe not - but if the season ended today Mookie has to be the MVP. I was going to argue your choice of electric position player but that I reconsidered - I guess technically DH is not a position - so Big Papi was excluded from your survey. For me he was the most electric offensive player - of course if we said pitcher Pedro would be the man. But Betts is special. I just hope he doesn't lose MVP votes just because JDM has been so awesome, too. And even though he won't get many MVP votes, if this was a season where Mookie, JDM, and Trout weren't having the seasons they're having, Chris Sale would be a candidate. He's been awesome. Really the Sox have 3 superstars on their team and some really great players like Benintendi and Bogaerts and Kimbrel, too (just not tonight) and a lot of other solid players. Few things about this: - Trout is back to having about a 1 WAR cushion over everyone else, and he's heating up again after playing through some sort of finger issue - Mookie is currently on pace to have a better offensive season than Ortiz ever did by a fairly substantial margin - Francisco Lindor and Jose Ramirez somehow never get into this Trout/Betts discussion and they both absolutely deserve to be - JD Martinez does NOT deserve to be in the MVP conversation with those guys at all, he's right there with them as a hitter but massively worse in every other way
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Post by patford on Jul 28, 2018 12:22:38 GMT -5
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 28, 2018 12:24:06 GMT -5
Hence my point upgrading over him would be the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade the team.
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Post by patford on Jul 28, 2018 13:10:02 GMT -5
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Post by h11233 on Jul 28, 2018 13:35:02 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2018 13:46:36 GMT -5
Mookie is electric. No doubt about it. Trout might well be the best player in the game or maybe not - but if the season ended today Mookie has to be the MVP. I was going to argue your choice of electric position player but that I reconsidered - I guess technically DH is not a position - so Big Papi was excluded from your survey. For me he was the most electric offensive player - of course if we said pitcher Pedro would be the man. But Betts is special. I just hope he doesn't lose MVP votes just because JDM has been so awesome, too. And even though he won't get many MVP votes, if this was a season where Mookie, JDM, and Trout weren't having the seasons they're having, Chris Sale would be a candidate. He's been awesome. Really the Sox have 3 superstars on their team and some really great players like Benintendi and Bogaerts and Kimbrel, too (just not tonight) and a lot of other solid players. Few things about this: - Trout is back to having about a 1 WAR cushion over everyone else, and he's heating up again after playing through some sort of finger issue - Mookie is currently on pace to have a better offensive season than Ortiz ever did by a fairly substantial margin - Francisco Lindor and Jose Ramirez somehow never get into this Trout/Betts discussion and they both absolutely deserve to be - JD Martinez does NOT deserve to be in the MVP conversation with those guys at all, he's right there with them as a hitter but massively worse in every other way Agree about Mookie having a season for the ages, but with something subjective about the most electrifying hitter, it's Ortiz. The guy was the freaking messiah. It's no coincidence the Sox went from 0 championships in 86 years to 3 under his watch. He at times seemingly singlehandedly pushed the Sox into the win column during the biggest games. I understand the numbers won't support JD Martinez as MVP, but the numbers are capturing everything. If you ask players in the Sox locker room, I'm sure you'll hear about JD's value, which goes beyond the numbers. He's their semi-hitting coach. He's the guy Mookie goes to for advice. That doesn't mean he should be MVP. I get that, but the point is that his true value to the Sox supersedes his already ridiculous numbers. Some people can post great numbers and still be a drag on the team. Martinez posts great numbers and he lifts that team. He certainly changes the dynamic of the lineup night and day. We know they don't go anywhere if Mookie doesn't start them up, but Martinez deserves his props, too. Not MVP, fine, but I'm sure some writers who still rely on triple crown stats and do value leadership will look his way. Not saying they're right. Just saying they have a point.
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