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8/17-8/19 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2018 13:45:20 GMT -5
Just look at the parks, deep center at Fenway is this tiny little area, deep center at the Trop is this huge area. You have a ton more space to make plays at the Trop as a CF than at Fenway. Its not even close frankly. Now compare that to the massive 415 feet 407 409 CF box at the Drop, way more room in deep center at the Trop, like twice the room.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2018 13:47:12 GMT -5
WTF I really wanted to see him Sunday. No Sale and watch it'll rain, because that's all it does this Summer. Why don't the Red Sox move a minor league team to Western Mass? We are the forgotten fans it seems. I can drive to Portland, Maine in the same time it takes me to drive to Boston. Did you miss they are moving to Worcester... i consider that Western Mass... ha Haha I almost consider that Boston it's like 2.5 to 3 hours from me.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 13:51:17 GMT -5
Lets just HOPE ther being EXTRA careful with Sale, because of their big lead. I think this is exactly it. This screams "we're in such a good position and we want to have Sale fresh for the playoffs." Cora is someone who thinks beyond the immediate future, and it shows. I think these are Patriots-esque DL stints/playing injuries, to be honest. Not only this, but it gives the Red Sox starters chances to compete for playoff starts. You’re dreaming. If this were true, they would have at a minimum DL’d him right after his last start to get an extra arm up here sooner. You don’t DL him the day before his start after going thru your side sessions. He’s hurt, it’s a problem we all should be concerned about.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2018 13:53:01 GMT -5
WTF I really wanted to see him Sunday. No Sale and watch it'll rain, because that's all it does this Summer. Why don't the Red Sox move a minor league team to Western Mass? We are the forgotten fans it seems. I can drive to Portland, Maine in the same time it takes me to drive to Boston. Your comment led me to check how many games have been rained out this year - was amazed to find only 2?! Seems like it has endlessly been raining everywhere... In Berkshire County we are surrounded by Mountains, heck I live on one at like 2400 feet. It has done nothing but rain here, but yea the game went on yesterday which I was surprised. That is how far away from Boston I am, it was crazy here like 10 plus hours of heavy heavy rain, crazy lightning and flooding. Phone went off three times for emergency notices. I forget the weather is nicer in Boston, just upset wanted to see Sale badly. I just don't go to a ton of games!
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 13:55:46 GMT -5
Now compare that to the massive 415 feet 407 409 CF box at the Drop, way more room in deep center at the Trop, like twice the room. It’s an overlay of the two fields...
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2018 14:01:22 GMT -5
Now compare that to the massive 415 feet 407 409 CF box at the Drop, way more room in deep center at the Trop, like twice the room. It’s an overlay of the two fields... No its not because it doesn't show the 415 407 409 box which is huge, compared to a tiny little box at 420 at Fenway. Just look at the two parks, its clear as day. You really can't see that?
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 14:05:41 GMT -5
Got it
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2018 14:17:46 GMT -5
I think this is exactly it. This screams "we're in such a good position and we want to have Sale fresh for the playoffs." Cora is someone who thinks beyond the immediate future, and it shows. I think these are Patriots-esque DL stints/playing injuries, to be honest. Not only this, but it gives the Red Sox starters chances to compete for playoff starts. You’re dreaming. If this were true, they would have at a minimum DL’d him right after his last start to get an extra arm up here sooner. You don’t DL him the day before his start after going thru your side sessions. He’s hurt, it’s a problem we all should be concerned about. I wouldn't be surprised if this is something he has pitched through his entire career. You don't just come off the DL throwing 100 for one start if there's something really wrong.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2018 14:29:56 GMT -5
A lot of people, excluding media members, too, expected Swihart to be DFAd. I don't think it was unreasonable for people to think that. Honestly, if not for the injury to Christian Vazquez, Blake Swihart probably wouldn't be on this team or else if he was he'd be rotting away on the bench like he was doing previously. I've always hoped Swihart would get the chance to catch. That chance wouldn't have happened with Vazquez getting injured. You hate to say it's a blessing in disguise, but it wound up being one because the Sox had to utilize Swihart behind the plate, where his bat actually does play up. Being a 25th player is a waste of his talents. Especially considering he was on a pace for barely 100 ABs for the longest time. The Red Sox actually chose Vazquez over Swihart. He's the one they sent Swihart down to Pawtucket so he could play everyday, and Vazquez is the guy who got the contract, I believe $8 million/year. But this year Vazquez's defense went backwards and his offense has been minimal, a lot of soft contact. This offseason I would hope the Sox can get something of value for a cost controlled catcher. Leon has passed Vazquez as their go-to catcher so Swihart still has another mountain to climb, but it wouldn't be unbelievable in the near future to see Leon's bat really fall off and Swihart to become the number 1 option. But at the time Merloni and a lot of guys were speculating that Swihart would be released, it was reasonable to think so. Can't imagine too many thought Hanley would get released like he did, going from batting 3rd to being DFA, but his contract kind of dictated it along with his middling performance. I'm glad Swihart is still around and I still believe Tek is correct, that there's an all-star catcher in there, but if not for Vazquez's injury we wouldn't know and we'd be stuck with a guy getting a few ABs a week at most while rotting away on the bench, and if you put Swihart at other positions, his bat really doesn't play. Put him behind the plate with that bat of his and his bat stands out because the average catcher hits terribly. Vazquez' AAV on his contract is $3.75M, not $8M (4 years, $15M plus a $7M option in 2022). They should be able to trade him if they want. Geez, thanks for correcting me. I didn't realize that his big contract deal was really no big deal. I don't know why I thought he was going to make $8 million/year. At his contract level he's very tradeable. I guess the issue is the return value as he's at his lowest value currently. Ultimately he makes sense as a backup to Swihart, but right now Leon's game calling skills are just too important and if the Sox were forced next season to part with a catcher it should be Vazquez.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2018 14:36:42 GMT -5
Not good news about Sale.
At this point there's no reason to bring him back until mid-September and hope he can get ramped up by the end of the season for Game 1 and obviously don't pitch him against the Yankees in September.
I hope they're being ultra-conservative about Sale, but it's hard to believe the grand plan was to start him one game after coming back from the DL and then returning him to the DL, so something isn't right.
The good news is that the Sox shouldn't hopefully need Chris Sale to hold off the Yankees over the next month. At some point soon E-Rod should be ready to take a rotation spot and Johnson has done nothing to lose his spot.
All I care about in September is seeing the Sox get and stay healthy. Winning 110 games or whatever isn't crucial, only winning more than the Yankees as far as win totals go.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2018 14:37:29 GMT -5
You’re dreaming. If this were true, they would have at a minimum DL’d him right after his last start to get an extra arm up here sooner. You don’t DL him the day before his start after going thru your side sessions. He’s hurt, it’s a problem we all should be concerned about. I wouldn't be surprised if this is something he has pitched through his entire career. You don't just come off the DL throwing 100 for one start if there's something really wrong. I have to agree, he has a 28 inning scoreless streak going. You can't have a major issue and be pitching at a crazy elite level. Just Cora being overly careful and it makes sense for a guy that wears down late in the year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 14:38:09 GMT -5
Don't we need to activate Sale by the end of August so that we can use him in the playoffs?
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2018 14:42:21 GMT -5
Don't we need to activate Sale by the end of August so that we can use him in the playoffs? No. He just had to be on a 40 man roster of any team at any point during the season before the end of August.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 14:42:25 GMT -5
Don't we need to activate Sale by the end of August so that we can use him in the playoffs? No
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 14:44:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if this is something he has pitched through his entire career. You don't just come off the DL throwing 100 for one start if there's something really wrong. I have to agree, he has a 28 inning scoreless streak going. You can't have a major issue and be pitching at a crazy elite level. Just Cora being overly careful and it makes sense for a guy that wears down late in the year. You guys really think they sat him out the Yankees series as a precaution? That was a HUGE series. He had 5 scoreless innings since being hurt not 28. Add: the concern is he felt well enough to pitch after the DL stint but not 5 days after throwing only 68 pitches.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2018 14:45:39 GMT -5
I have to agree, he has a 28 inning scoreless streak going. You can't have a major issue and be pitching at a crazy elite level. Just Cora being overly careful and it makes sense for a guy that wears down late in the year. You guys really think they sat him out the Yankees series as a precaution? That was a HUGE series. He had 5 scoreless innings since being hurt not 28. Did it look like it affected his pitching? IMO, that last game was as good as he has ever looked. This is about preserving him for the playoffs. It's preventative. I'd bet that he pushed through this in every previous year and that's what caught up to him by the end of the season. I bet they completely changed his mind about what to tell the medical staff and to stop hiding stuff so he can be dominant in the postseason. I'd by my right arm that he'd be pitching tomorrow if it were a playoff game.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 14:50:06 GMT -5
You guys really think they sat him out the Yankees series as a precaution? That was a HUGE series. He had 5 scoreless innings since being hurt not 28. Did it look like it affected his pitching? IMO, that last game was as good as he has ever looked. This is about preserving him for the playoffs. It's preventative. I'd bet that he pushed through this in every previous year and that's what caught up to him by the end of the season. Ok so either his shoulder is fine and this is a phantom DL stint to rest him like you said. In which case, I ask, why wouldn’t they DL him the day after his start that they pulled him after 68 pitches? Makes way more sense to use the roster spot and you have a great excuse. Or he came back because he felt good after 10 days off and pitched great, but he couldn’t bounce back for his next start despite only throwing 68 pitches.... that’s not good. So which is it?
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2018 14:52:23 GMT -5
You guys really think they sat him out the Yankees series as a precaution? That was a HUGE series. He had 5 scoreless innings since being hurt not 28. Did it look like it affected his pitching? IMO, that last game was as good as he has ever looked. This is about preserving him for the playoffs. It's preventative. I'd bet that he pushed through this in every previous year and that's what caught up to him by the end of the season. I bet they completely changed his mind about what to tell the medical staff and to stop hiding stuff so he can be dominant in the postseason. I'd by my right arm that he'd be pitching tomorrow if it were a playoff game. Ok well that’s still not good because he hasn’t pitched well in the past thru this issue so we still should be nervous he can bounce back from start to start come playoff time when you have less time off
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 14:59:45 GMT -5
I’m not sure what to think about Sale. Two DL trips in one month is never a positive. I guess I would be more concerned if he hadn’t looked so dominant in his last start against Baltimore. There didn’t appear to be any drop in velocity. Consider me cautiously optimistic right now.
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Post by p23w on Aug 18, 2018 15:02:39 GMT -5
Lets just HOPE ther being EXTRA careful with Sale, because of their big lead. I think this is exactly it. This screams "we're in such a good position and we want to have Sale fresh for the playoffs." Cora is someone who thinks beyond the immediate future, and it shows. I think these are Patriots-esque DL stints/playing injuries, to be honest. Not only this, but it gives the Red Sox starters chances to compete for playoff starts. Being extra careful with Sale is a given. Shoulder inflamation for the second time in such a short period is of serious concern.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 18, 2018 15:05:08 GMT -5
So that means starts on Sun Aug 19 and Fri Aug 24..."bullpen" games with Velazquez starting and going limited innings? Would rather that than throw Pom out there. Velazquez on Sunday will be going on 7 days rest except for one 7-pitch inning against the Phillies exactly at the halfway point.
He was stretched out coming out of ST and threw 79 and 86 pitches in his two starts, going 5.2 and 5.0 IP. He threw 49 pitches over 3.0 innings on July 10, on two days rest after back-to-back one inning stints (23, then 12 pitches), and in his last start he threw 41 pitches over 2.2 IP on one days rest after 2 IP and 25 pitches.
Summing up his three emergency starts: pitches thrown in previous six days plus the rest:
35 (12 on 2, 23 on 3) 25 (on 1) 7 (on 3)
He's way more rested. I think it's very likely this was by design, as a precaution.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 18, 2018 15:06:37 GMT -5
regarding the Sale DL move. The fact that this happened 2x in such a short period precludes just feeling nonchalant about his condition, but I am pretty sure the Sox know they can exercise caution with the lead they have, if needed. IMO, not really an either / or thing.
I am not get too worried until the worst case scenario becomes a reality, god forbid.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 15:07:13 GMT -5
If there’s even a hint of inflammation, the time to do something about it is now. It could very well be precautionary.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 18, 2018 15:12:26 GMT -5
I think this is exactly it. This screams "we're in such a good position and we want to have Sale fresh for the playoffs." Cora is someone who thinks beyond the immediate future, and it shows. I think these are Patriots-esque DL stints/playing injuries, to be honest. Not only this, but it gives the Red Sox starters chances to compete for playoff starts. Being extra careful with Sale is a given. Shoulder inflamation for the second time in such a short period is of serious concern. This would be true if the shoulder inflammation were of the degree that ordinarily forces a pitcher to the DL. We know that the first time, it wasn't, and given the late call here, it's not this time, either.
I'm pretty sure you can pitch with very mild shoulder inflammation, risking a) bad performance, and b) the condition worsening to the point that you do have to go on the DL. I'm also pretty sure that you can keep the level of inflammation more or less constant; you're not giving it a chance to heal but you're not making it worse, either.
It's of concern because, in the playoffs, they won't be able to do this, and the point here is to have him pitch then with zero inflammation. Which I believe is the standard they're using now.
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Post by awall on Aug 18, 2018 15:18:26 GMT -5
NO NO NO NO NO!!! The last game of our 3 pack is tomorrow. I was really stoked to see Sale in person with my 9 yr old, one of his best friends and his friend’s dad, who I’ve helped coach little league for a few years. Sigh. I hope it is more of a precaution than a major issue. Does make me wonder about the prospects of extending him after this contract though. They’ve been as careful as possible this year and he is still having shoulder problems.
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