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Keith Law says MiLB teams should pay players
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 27, 2018 17:34:13 GMT -5
The fact that you see professional baseball as a game and not a “real job” really goes a long way towards explaining your fundamental lack of empathy here. I mean, imagine having so much disdain for professional baseball players that you earnestly believe that MLB is not interstate commerce? Yea its as fundamentally sound as saying all player deserve more because the owners can afford it. Its is a game! So now we're at the "It's a game" point? Maybe no one in sports should be paid since they're all just playing games, despite the games producing $30 billion in revenue (or whatever it is). All players deserve at least minimum wage. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 27, 2018 17:40:35 GMT -5
For everything else I disagree with, this is fundamentally bad and incorrect economic theory. The more money an individual (or corporation) has, the share of each additional dollar reinvested into the economy (whether through the purchase of goods, the hiring of additional labor, or direct investment) is actually smaller, slowing growth. It's 100% fundamentally correct. Your just saying that at a certain point, the more profits companies make will have less of an overall effect on the economy. It's the fatal flaw in trickle down economics. Its not that you don't need large profits, its when you give more profits to companies that already have huge profits they don't invest as much as they should. The point is you need to know and understand what that point is. No one is going to invest a 100 million to create a new plant if they get small profits. The risk is too great, they need to be large. Most of you guys are Lawyers right? You won't leave your job and open your own Law Firm, with all the risk that is involved to make just a little bit more. Well I should say most won't, some might just to be there own boss. You do it to make a lot more. And in the real world, companies that produce high profits, make their best investments in congress to write laws that guarantee and expand their monopolies by over-regulating small business and destroying all of the competition. Then they spend the mountain of cash that they have mainly on stock buy-backs to make investors richer instead of investing in the business and taking every opportunity to strip benefits and pay for any employees they can get away with it for. This is why baseball got their "we don't have to pay minimum wage" bill passed without any resistance because minor league players have no representation whatsoever. And you cheer for the owners who got their guarantee that they can forever screw minor league players. I actually wouldn't be surprised if minor league players get paid LESS moving forward because of the new law. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 27, 2018 17:47:56 GMT -5
Denigrating baseball as “a game” fundamentally misunderstands the dynamic here. Major League Baseball is fundamentally a business that generates free cash flow at a rate that few other enterprises can match. In this day and age, being a professional baseball player shouldn’t be treated any differently than any other job, and that includes being subject to minimum wage protection and being paid for spring training and overtime. It’s funny, the posters who are prone to pseudo-economic arguments are loading up the discussion with non-economic value judgments just as often. See, e.g., it’s just a game, they should get a real job and the like. For what it’s worth, I’d be in favor of fewer but more highly-paid minor league positions. Major league Baseball overall makes a lot of money and the players are paid accordingly. The average salary is what 4 million a year? Anyone that gets to the Majors makes a ton. What started this is Keith Law talking about minor league Baseball having 200 million in net revenue. Which after the expenses of running and upkeep costs of those parks is likely not much in way of gross revenue. Which he clearly overlooks, nevermind the total yearly paid to minor leaguers including bonuses. Heck even using net revenue minor leaguers get double that. So the money being paid is more than fair. I fully agree pay for spring training, that should be a non-brainer. They have minimum wage protection, per Congress $1,160 meets that requirement on a federal level. Don't forget to add in benefits like free health care that other people pay a ton for and per diem of $25 a day. You can't just overlook those things like they don't get them. Nevermind this is just the lowest level of players, not everyone makes that amount. I don't agree about overtime during spring training. Its like being paid a salary. If someone can show me they truly work 60-70 hours during the season every week, they should get more. I just don't see how that is possible. I have no problem if you pay fewer people more, which is what will happen is the pay is greatly increased. Can you please show your math that $1160 meets minimum wage requirements? Benefits and per diem does not count towards minimum wage. |
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Sept 27, 2018 21:54:09 GMT -5
All he did was multiply $7.25 times 160 hours (assumes 4 x 40 hour work weeks per month). He's as wrong about that as he is about his view that baseball is only a game or that the economy requires large profits siphoned to the fortunate few or to monopolistic corporations or that that situation demands lower workers (I assume he meant low paid workers). All you have to do is look at many European countries where either through strong unions, a more egalitarian philosophy, a more graduated tax rate have managed to provide a much higher standard of living to the "lower workers" in their society including such things as universal access to health care or higher education.
If you want to see something that is only a game, take a look at any trading floor where primarily young people with a different skill set play leveraged games with other people's money while acting with all the maturity of junior high students.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 27, 2018 22:27:10 GMT -5
All he did was multiply $7.25 times 160 hours (assumes 4 x 40 hour work weeks per month). He's as wrong about that as he is about his view that baseball is only a game or that the economy requires large profits siphoned to the fortunate few or to monopolistic corporations or that that situation demands lower workers (I assume he meant low paid workers). All you have to do is look at many European countries where either through strong unions, a more egalitarian philosophy, a more graduated tax rate have managed to provide a much higher standard of living to the "lower workers" in their society including such things as universal access to health care or higher education. If you want to see something that is only a game, take a look at any trading floor where primarily young people with a different skill set play leveraged games with other people's money while acting with all the maturity of junior high students. The reason why America has the best standards in medicine is because they DON'T have universal health care. There's a reason why people from China and India come here to practice medicine. It isn't a higher standard of living because it DOESN'T PROVIDE THE BEST HEALTH CARE. IT JUST PROVIDES HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 27, 2018 23:33:56 GMT -5
All he did was multiply $7.25 times 160 hours (assumes 4 x 40 hour work weeks per month). He's as wrong about that as he is about his view that baseball is only a game or that the economy requires large profits siphoned to the fortunate few or to monopolistic corporations or that that situation demands lower workers (I assume he meant low paid workers). All you have to do is look at many European countries where either through strong unions, a more egalitarian philosophy, a more graduated tax rate have managed to provide a much higher standard of living to the "lower workers" in their society including such things as universal access to health care or higher education. If you want to see something that is only a game, take a look at any trading floor where primarily young people with a different skill set play leveraged games with other people's money while acting with all the maturity of junior high students. I didn't do anything, that is the number congress came up will in the bill Jimed keeps talking about. Baseball was told $1,100 doesn't meet the minimum wage requirements, it needed to be $1,160. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 7:44:18 GMT -5
All he did was multiply $7.25 times 160 hours (assumes 4 x 40 hour work weeks per month). He's as wrong about that as he is about his view that baseball is only a game or that the economy requires large profits siphoned to the fortunate few or to monopolistic corporations or that that situation demands lower workers (I assume he meant low paid workers). All you have to do is look at many European countries where either through strong unions, a more egalitarian philosophy, a more graduated tax rate have managed to provide a much higher standard of living to the "lower workers" in their society including such things as universal access to health care or higher education. If you want to see something that is only a game, take a look at any trading floor where primarily young people with a different skill set play leveraged games with other people's money while acting with all the maturity of junior high students. I didn't do anything, that is the number congress came up will in the bill Jimed keeps talking about. Baseball was told $1,100 doesn't meet the minimum wage requirements, it needed to be $1,160. Yeah and they're just as full of s... as you are. I'm not going to accept government as the voice of reason or the authority of truth - because they never ever are. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 11:06:12 GMT -5
I just have to ask what your issue is with it? Simple math shows its 40 hours times 4 weeks, yet you keep acting like its not even in the ballpark.
Speaking of a person that is full of it, still waiting on those articles that show 70 hour work weeks that you claim are everywhere!
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 11:21:39 GMT -5
I just have to ask what your issue is with it? Simple math shows its 40 hours times 4 weeks, yet you keep acting like its not even in the ballpark. Speaking of a person that is full of it, still waiting on those articles that show 70 hour work weeks that you claim are everywhere! I have one more article posted than you do. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 11:26:15 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 11:46:39 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 11:51:18 GMT -5
In 1997, Torii Hunter, the future Minnesota Twins star, was at Double-A New Britain. It was his fifth year in the minor leagues, and he couldn’t imagine a career in which he was going to make more than $170 million. He and his friend Armann Brown wanted to save money, so they rented a Geo Spectrum for $9.99 a day and used it for more than driving. “We slept in the car,” said Hunter, who managed the U.S. team on Sunday. “I’m looking at the stars like, ‘How did I get here?’ We were so broke. We had a homestand for five days, and we were like, ‘Let’s save some money.’ ” sports.yahoo.com/instagram-account-goes-laughs-showing-underbelly-minor-league-baseball-005918740.htmlImagine if Torii Hunter went and got a real job instead of living in a car. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 11:56:20 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:01:44 GMT -5
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Sept 28, 2018 12:06:33 GMT -5
All he did was multiply $7.25 times 160 hours (assumes 4 x 40 hour work weeks per month). He's as wrong about that as he is about his view that baseball is only a game or that the economy requires large profits siphoned to the fortunate few or to monopolistic corporations or that that situation demands lower workers (I assume he meant low paid workers). All you have to do is look at many European countries where either through strong unions, a more egalitarian philosophy, a more graduated tax rate have managed to provide a much higher standard of living to the "lower workers" in their society including such things as universal access to health care or higher education. If you want to see something that is only a game, take a look at any trading floor where primarily young people with a different skill set play leveraged games with other people's money while acting with all the maturity of junior high students. The reason why America has the best standards in medicine is because they DON'T have universal health care. There's a reason why people from China and India come here to practice medicine. It isn't a higher standard of living because it DOESN'T PROVIDE THE BEST HEALTH CARE. IT JUST PROVIDES HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS. No, the reason provides the best standards in health care is because it is the world's richest country and provides those standards for its wealthiest citizens (and foreigners who can afford it). America does NOT have the best health care results globally. We are behind in: infant mortality (@30 out of 40 OECD countries), 26th in Life Expectancy and 37th Globally in overall health care efficiency. It dies not provide health care to all it's citizens unless you say that anyone can go to an EMergency Room, after which if they don't have decent insurance there is a good chance they will be bankrupt. Just recently my wife fell and ended up in the ER (it was 11:30 pm). She was not admitted but had a battery of tests including an EEG and x-rays. We just got the billing through Medicare. The 3 hour stay was billed at over $15,000 - Medicare and our supplemental which we are fortunate enough to be able to afford covered it all paid about$1,000. If we were not on Medicare and had typically crumby insurance we would have been on the hook for thousands, I know this because we had an incident in our pre Medicare days where something of similar severity left us with years of paying off the uninsured portion that our supposedly fair play didn't cover. So if you want to spout your JINGOISTIC ALL CAPS NONSENSE, at least try actual instead of alternative facts to back it up. Mike Trout has been the best player in baseball for the past several years (2nd best this year - MOOKIE!) but the Angels have been mediocre. That's the U.S. healthcare system in a nutshell. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 12:20:37 GMT -5
That article has a link to the lawsuit and it doesn't say that. It says sometimes work 70 hours per week, as in spring training. Even then I have my doubts. They have to be including things like breaks, eating, etc into the total. Which normal people don't get paid for. The lawsuit says 50 hours, which if that is true work and not eating and travel time. Then I would support them being paid 50 hours. Thing is I can't believe this crap when a writer says that and then links a lawsuit that says something totally different. You can believe whatever you want, but just for a second think about it. How in the world do they work 70 hours during the season while playing games? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 12:22:29 GMT -5
In 1997, Torii Hunter, the future Minnesota Twins star, was at Double-A New Britain. It was his fifth year in the minor leagues, and he couldn’t imagine a career in which he was going to make more than $170 million. He and his friend Armann Brown wanted to save money, so they rented a Geo Spectrum for $9.99 a day and used it for more than driving. “We slept in the car,” said Hunter, who managed the U.S. team on Sunday. “I’m looking at the stars like, ‘How did I get here?’ We were so broke. We had a homestand for five days, and we were like, ‘Let’s save some money.’ ” sports.yahoo.com/instagram-account-goes-laughs-showing-underbelly-minor-league-baseball-005918740.htmlImagine if Torii Hunter went and got a real job instead of living in a car. Torri Hunter was a first round pick. First round picks get massive bonus money. Edit; Its stories like this why I don't believe a lot of this crap. Every first round pick today is a multi millionaire before he even plays. Heck our second round pick got over a million. Lets just keep acting like bonus money doesn't happen. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:30:15 GMT -5
That article has a link to the lawsuit and it doesn't say that. It says sometimes work 70 hours per week, as in spring training. Even then I have my doubts. They have to be including things like breaks, eating, etc into the total. Which normal people don't get paid for. The lawsuit says 50 hours, which if that is true work and not eating and travel time. Then I would support them being paid 50 hours. Thing is I can't believe this crap when a writer says that and then links a lawsuit that says something totally different. You can believe whatever you want, but just for a second think about it. How in the world do they work 70 hours during the season while playing games? I copied and pasted that quote from the article. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:34:07 GMT -5
In 1997, Torii Hunter, the future Minnesota Twins star, was at Double-A New Britain. It was his fifth year in the minor leagues, and he couldn’t imagine a career in which he was going to make more than $170 million. He and his friend Armann Brown wanted to save money, so they rented a Geo Spectrum for $9.99 a day and used it for more than driving. “We slept in the car,” said Hunter, who managed the U.S. team on Sunday. “I’m looking at the stars like, ‘How did I get here?’ We were so broke. We had a homestand for five days, and we were like, ‘Let’s save some money.’ ” sports.yahoo.com/instagram-account-goes-laughs-showing-underbelly-minor-league-baseball-005918740.htmlImagine if Torii Hunter went and got a real job instead of living in a car. Torri Hunter was a first round pick. First round picks get massive bonus money. Edit; Its stories like this why I don't believe a lot of this crap. Every first round pick today is a multi millionaire before he even plays. Heck our second round pick got over a million. Lets just keep acting like bonus money doesn't happen. Anyone who uses their bonus money to live on is a dumbass. Plus half of that money is gone because of taxes. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 12:35:32 GMT -5
That article has a link to the lawsuit and it doesn't say that. It says sometimes work 70 hours per week, as in spring training. Even then I have my doubts. They have to be including things like breaks, eating, etc into the total. Which normal people don't get paid for. The lawsuit says 50 hours, which if that is true work and not eating and travel time. Then I would support them being paid 50 hours. Thing is I can't believe this crap when a writer says that and then links a lawsuit that says something totally different. You can believe whatever you want, but just for a second think about it. How in the world do they work 70 hours during the season while playing games? I copied and pasted that quote from the article. Click on the link to the lawsuit, you know the one where they have to prove it in court, it doesn't say that! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 12:38:08 GMT -5
Torri Hunter was a first round pick. First round picks get massive bonus money. Edit; Its stories like this why I don't believe a lot of this crap. Every first round pick today is a multi millionaire before he even plays. Heck our second round pick got over a million. Lets just keep acting like bonus money doesn't happen. Anyone who uses their bonus money to live on is a dumbass. Plus half of that money is gone because of taxes. That is why they get the bonus money! It just proves my point these guys will say I had to live in a car, even when they didn't have to. It was all just to save money. They are like College kids in that regards. You just keep eating it up though. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:38:48 GMT -5
I copied and pasted that quote from the article. Click on the link to the lawsuit, you know the one where they have to prove it in court, it doesn't say that! The lawsuit was thrown out because of the new law that was passed. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:42:32 GMT -5
Anyone who uses their bonus money to live on is a dumbass. Plus half of that money is gone because of taxes. That is why they get the bonus money! It just proves my point these guys will say I had to live in a car, even when they didn't have to. It was all just to save money. They are like College kids in that regards. You just keep eating it up though. They shouldn't be like college kids. College athletes don't live like that. It's too hard to be a high level athlete. And I love how you jump on this one because it's Torii Hunter while ignoring everything else. Just go look at about 100 pictures on that instagram account to see what minor league life is like. I'm sure that cooking chicken with an iron and reheating disgusting leftovers that weren't refrigerated for 10 hours with a hair dryer and working out in the bathroom because there is nowhere else to work out is just part of the overall dream. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 28, 2018 12:47:52 GMT -5
Click on the link to the lawsuit, you know the one where they have to prove it in court, it doesn't say that! The lawsuit was thrown out because of the new law that was passed. OMG, the section that says the lawsuit isn't completely done, were still going to try on a state level. It has a link to the orginal lawsuit, its a PDF file!!! |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 28, 2018 12:55:44 GMT -5
The lawsuit was thrown out because of the new law that was passed. OMG, the section that says the lawsuit isn't completely done, were still going to try on a state level. It has a link to the orginal lawsuit, its a PDF file!!! You asked for a source that stated they work 60-70 hours and I provided it. I don't care about the lawsuit because politicians will continually be bought to prevent owners from paying any money they don't want to pay. We're talking right and wrong, not law and government. |
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