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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Oct 25, 2018 19:35:56 GMT -5
Another embarrassing start to a game for the Celtics. Are Kyrie and Gordon possibly holding them back? What gives?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 25, 2018 19:39:56 GMT -5
Brad really has his guys prepared to play this year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 25, 2018 19:54:36 GMT -5
It would be great if the Celtics would stop playing like crap any time now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 25, 2018 21:25:29 GMT -5
My god. The refs miss a blatant goaltend by OKC. The refs have been overall poor in this game.
It's hard to know who's worse, MLB umpires and their horrific inconsistent strikezones, or NBA refs at everything.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 25, 2018 22:00:34 GMT -5
Celtics showed up for the second half, good thing OKC couldn't score at all or the Celtics probably lose that game.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 26, 2018 7:54:15 GMT -5
My god. The refs miss a blatant goaltend by OKC. The refs have been overall poor in this game. It's hard to know who's worse, MLB umpires and their horrific inconsistent strikezones, or NBA refs at everything. MLB umps are considerably worse. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 26, 2018 14:46:20 GMT -5
On the bright side, the Celtics are still the best defense in the league in the early goings. The offense has been atrocious, but I really think that's down to Kyrie and Hayward playing poorly.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2018 18:05:07 GMT -5
Celtics showed up for the second half, good thing OKC couldn't score at all or the Celtics probably lose that game. Exactly they won, but they didn't look good. The Thunder playing like crap allowed us to win. Heck even the announcers were like not much team ball is being played by the Celtics. I truly enjoyed watching Tatum, Brown, Horford, and Rozier last year. Sure they would go through stretches were they looked horrible, but then great stretches of run and gun. That is now gone, were right back to last year before Irving went down. We need to insert Smart or Rozier into the starting lineup. We have to get back to team ball! The offense should be way better, yet it's currently worse Than during last years playoffs. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 29, 2018 16:19:36 GMT -5
Theis out indefinitely with a tear in his plantar in his foot. Big blow. Now we will probably be seeing more of the rookie Williams for a while and I'm not sure if he's ready yet.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 29, 2018 16:48:39 GMT -5
I don't know if he's ready but I want to see Williams get minutes. 5 to 10 minutes a game would be awesome. He can do things no other player can do. Baynes can play great D, but Williams can be a true shot blocking difference maker. He could dominate the paint and he doesn't need the ball. He did play two years of College ball, so he's not crazy raw either.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 31, 2018 9:51:25 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 31, 2018 9:53:09 GMT -5
I don't know if he's ready but I want to see Williams get minutes. 5 to 10 minutes a game would be awesome. He can do things no other player can do. Baynes can play great D, but Williams can be a true shot blocking difference maker. He could dominate the paint and he doesn't need the ball. He did play two years of College ball, so he's not crazy raw either. It’s funny he came in last night with 1:30 to go in the first. Lasted 1 minute (didn’t do anything wrong they just subbed for last possession offense during a Detroit free throw) then never got back in. Experience baby! |
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 31, 2018 12:35:04 GMT -5
I've been watching some Doncic highlights. Umass, was it you that thought he was going to be a bust? Tell me you changed your mind man.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 31, 2018 12:49:55 GMT -5
I've been watching some Doncic highlights. Umass, was it you that thought he was going to be a bust? Tell me you changed your mind man. I’m pretty sure he didn’t say bust but he definitely wasn’t high on him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 31, 2018 12:51:49 GMT -5
I've been watching some Doncic highlights. Umass, was it you that thought he was going to be a bust? Tell me you changed your mind man. Plus you gotta add points for him having a great mom... |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 31, 2018 14:09:46 GMT -5
I've been watching some Doncic highlights. Umass, was it you that thought he was going to be a bust? Tell me you changed your mind man. I don't think I ever used the word bust. I certainly didn't think he was the #1 guy and thus was overrated if you had him #1 or believed the hype train. By all accounts Ayton is by far the better player so far. He's exactly the monster I thought he was. Doncic was a highly skilled player, so he wasn't going to bust. If I remember right my main question was did he have the athleticism to score at the rim against the LeBrons, Durants, George's of the NBA and on the flip side could he defend them. After watching highlights I don't feel any different frankly. He's highly skilled, yet he's clearly not a top notch athlete. He's not close to Brown, heck he's not even a Tatum level athlete. All of his points in the paint were mid range pull ups because he can't get to the rim and that was against the Spurs who don't even have Leonard anymore. You see a future super star player when you watch him? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 31, 2018 23:39:27 GMT -5
I don't think I ever used the word bust. I certainly didn't think he was the #1 guy and thus was overrated if you had him #1 or believed the hype train. By all accounts Ayton is by far the better player so far. He's exactly the monster I thought he was. Doncic was a highly skilled player, so he wasn't going to bust. If I remember right my main question was did he have the athleticism to score at the rim against the LeBrons, Durants, George's of the NBA and on the flip side could he defend them. After watching highlights I don't feel any different frankly. He's highly skilled, yet he's clearly not a top notch athlete. He's not close to Brown, heck he's not even a Tatum level athlete. All of his points in the paint were mid range pull ups because he can't get to the rim and that was against the Spurs who don't even have Leonard anymore. You see a future super star player when you watch him? Yeah my memory tricked me, you definitely weren't as down on him as I made it sound, it was a question about him or Ayton. Ayton looks amazing thus far, but I'm really surprised by how well Luka's game translated to the NBA already. He's scoring a lot, running the game for Dallas, he even played some stout defense for a few possessions in the game against Atlanta. He's not crazy athletic, but he's big and he isn't slow. I see some Nowitzki in him in that he's not going to bang with everyone and he's not going to go coast to coast a lot, but his shooting form is fantastic and he's a terrific playmaker. He's struggling right now against the Lakers, but not a lot of turnovers and not a lot of stupid plays. That's a good sign when a young player has an off night and yet he's still playable. Jaylen Brown still can't say that for himself. Not sure if super star, but I definitely see something special in him. If he improves his shooting a bit, which he should given how nice his form looks, and manages to stay healthy I could see him being an incredibly well rounded player. His passing could be elite for the position he plays, but even if it doesn't quite get I don't see any major flaws that could prevent him from being a solid second option in a great team. Plus you gotta add points for him having a great mom... I'm glad I googled that! |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 1, 2018 7:07:59 GMT -5
What I’ll say about athleticism is we often only attribute it to speed and explosiveness that guys like Brown, Rozier and most obvious example Westbrook have. But that’s not what is necessarily the most important. Things like balance, body control, footwork and the ability to use those things along with your body to open up space are arguably just as if not more important. Larry Bird wasn’t a great athlete (yes the NBA was different back then, but still). Paul Pierce wasn’t a great athlete but he was a Hall of Famer. Were John Stockton or Jason Kid great athletes in the Jaylen Brown mood? There are a lot more examples. If you want to say it limits a guys ceiling, well sure, but there are other things that limit certain great athletes ceilings that a guy like Doncic has that they don’t, like body control. For example Rozier is super explosive and can drive by people but he’s out of control when he does so he’s very inefficient. Some of that has been improved by the game slowing down for him a bit, but he’s never going to be silky smooth in those situations which makes him inefficient once he drives by a guy going to the rim which offsets the athletic advantage in those situations.
Yes, all things being equal I’d like Doncic to be more explosive but I’m not trading some of his other attributes for that explosiveness.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 1, 2018 14:20:14 GMT -5
You think Doncic is a Paul Pierce level athlete? I don't see that, which is the problem. I do think your mixing skill in with athleticism. Donic isn't graceful, Pierce was. Pierce was an underrated athlete because he didn't make a ton of huge dunks, etc. I'd rate him on Tatum's level. I don't think Rozier issues are athleticism, but he lacks the skills of a mid range game and doesn't finish well going through contact. He gets great easy shots. Like you said he just needs the game to slow down and play under control. This is a skill, not natural ability. No way I buy Doncic has better footwork, body control, or balance than Rozier. He's just a better shooter and his size makes it easier. Skill can be improved, just look at Rozier, he's 3 times the player he was a couple years ago and just keeps getting better. Then look at Smart, his upside is limited because he's just not a good athlete, but heck he might be better than Doncic.
The NBA has changed, a ton of non-athletes that made a living in the NBA 30 years ago hardly make the NBA today. I'll keep saying that I was 9 years old when Bird retired. I have like no memory of him playing live, only ESPN videos. So I just watched a 9 minute highlight video. He's not graceful, I can see some similarities, yet in his time Bird got to the rim with ease, game after game, dunk after dunk. Something Doncic didn't do in the two games higlights I watched that showed every basket he made. Watching those old games its glaring how much more athletic and how different the game is now.
You know what athleticism does for Rozier that Doncic can't do? Play good D, be a two way player. That is huge when he plays SF, that is loaded with some of the best players in the league. Test one was playing against LeBron and he had his lowest point total since opening night and fewest free throws of the season.
It might sound like I'm slamming him, just remember the debate was he the best player in the draft and was his ceiling as high as the hype train made it sound like. He's going to be a very good player for a longtime, yet he's most likely not going to be the best player from his draft. He's not going to be a superstar and I think you can debate if he'll even be a regular all-star. He's going to score and he's a gifted passer, yet he has issues. Huge ones even at his crazy young age. In a way I get why people loved him so much, he's one of the more skilled players to come around in a longtime. Yet he already stands out as one of the worst athletes on the floor everytime you watch him. Something that really doesn't matter in the Euro league, but is huge in the NBA. Its why Danny gambled on great athletes like Brown and Rozier. Knowing it wasn't how good they were day one, but years down the road.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 1, 2018 22:58:05 GMT -5
It might sound like I'm slamming him, just remember the debate was he the best player in the draft and was his ceiling as high as the hype train made it sound like. He's going to be a very good player for a longtime, yet he's most likely not going to be the best player from his draft. He's not going to be a superstar and I think you can debate if he'll even be a regular all-star. He's going to score and he's a gifted passer, yet he has issues. Huge ones even at his crazy young age. In a way I get why people loved him so much, he's one of the more skilled players to come around in a longtime. Yet he already stands out as one of the worst athletes on the floor everytime you watch him. Something that really doesn't matter in the Euro league, but is huge in the NBA. Its why Danny gambled on great athletes like Brown and Rozier. Knowing it wasn't how good they were day one, but years down the road. I think you're overrating sheer athleticism here. There are plenty of athletes who get drafted early and never make it. And you're also underrating Doncic's athleticism as well. He's not elite by any means, but he's not Jared Sullinger. I need to see more, but he's able to stay in front of guys and I even saw a chase block or two. He's a bit slow but for his skillset it's not really detrimental like it is for guys like Lonzo Ball. Also, nice win tonight! Semi being a good player would be monumental this season. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 2, 2018 7:37:50 GMT -5
Looks like the Kings pick isn’t going to be very good.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 2, 2018 11:48:43 GMT -5
Looks like the Kings pick isn’t going to be very good. Yeah, it won't. That backcourt being legit and WCS being closer to stardom essentially killed our chances of a high pick. |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 2, 2018 12:51:15 GMT -5
When all is said and done, I still think they'll end up the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the West (unless an injury to one of the teams right above them changes that story). Problem is that the East looks even worse at the bottom than I had thought.
Cleveland (especially with Love either out or traded), the Bulls, Hawks are for certain worse. NYK and Orlando could continue to be.
So they'll have a better spot in the lottery than currently but it'll most likely be worse than hoped.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 2, 2018 12:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 2, 2018 14:17:03 GMT -5
It might sound like I'm slamming him, just remember the debate was he the best player in the draft and was his ceiling as high as the hype train made it sound like. He's going to be a very good player for a longtime, yet he's most likely not going to be the best player from his draft. He's not going to be a superstar and I think you can debate if he'll even be a regular all-star. He's going to score and he's a gifted passer, yet he has issues. Huge ones even at his crazy young age. In a way I get why people loved him so much, he's one of the more skilled players to come around in a longtime. Yet he already stands out as one of the worst athletes on the floor everytime you watch him. Something that really doesn't matter in the Euro league, but is huge in the NBA. Its why Danny gambled on great athletes like Brown and Rozier. Knowing it wasn't how good they were day one, but years down the road. I think you're overrating sheer athleticism here. There are plenty of athletes who get drafted early and never make it. And you're also underrating Doncic's athleticism as well. He's not elite by any means, but he's not Jared Sullinger. I need to see more, but he's able to stay in front of guys and I even saw a chase block or two. He's a bit slow but for his skillset it's not really detrimental like it is for guys like Lonzo Ball. Also, nice win tonight! Semi being a good player would be monumental this season. Oh course a bunch of athletes don't make it, but it limits upside especially at SF. From the highlight tapes and I just watched a bunch more. He looks like he's close to a bottom tier athlete at SF right now. At the same time the amount of athletes in the NBA has never been higher and he's still in the NBA. Kyle Korver isn't a good athlete in the NBA for his position, yet the guy can still dunk, heck how many blocks did he have on Brown in that game? I'm not saying he's an all-time bad athlete or something like that. I just don't see a good athlete. I see a very skilled player, that does all these behind the back under the legs dribbles to help him get off shots. Its painful watching him run the court, it takes 110% effort and he still didn't outrun the guys. Watched him in the post against Wiggins and Rose, he could even come close to getting by either player instead settling for a hard fade away shot. He plays the position with the top athletes in the NBA and he's clearly not even close to that level. His skill level is very impressive and he's a very smart player. He uses screens, takes great angles, can dribble very well and seems to play very hard, which in a way makes him seem like a better athlete than he is. |
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