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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 31, 2019 15:56:45 GMT -5
Actually it’s not a Euro powerhouse because Doncic doesn’t have the athletic ability
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 15:57:05 GMT -5
Good trade for both sides imo. Dallas wants to be competitive and the Knicks are building for the future.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 15:59:56 GMT -5
Knicks are building for next year. That trade is about clearing Hardaway (and Lee, if Woj is right) off the books. Some are speculating this is an indication they have some level of confidence in KD (or another max player) and want to create space to woo another Max.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 16:02:12 GMT -5
Charnia updating that it's both Lee and Burke.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 16:02:15 GMT -5
Knicks are building for next year. That trade is about clearing Hardaway (and Lee, if Woj is right) off the books. Some are speculating this is an indication they have some level of confidence in KD (or another max player) and want to create space to woo another Max. Yeah that's true, but Dennis Smith Jr. is a good future piece for them. It's probably a 5 year window they're looking to build. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2019 16:26:44 GMT -5
Welp He’s going to Dallas with Hardaway and Lee for Smith and expiring contracts... Dallas building a Euro powerhouse Absolutely BASED. Wish we had some of that swag. |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 16:27:40 GMT -5
They could be in a position like Boston is/was (not to the same degree) where they have pieces for the future while also building a contender today.
Quick math, they'll have Smith, Ntilikina, Knox and Robinson on the books for $15Mn. Even adding holds for Mudiay (12.3) and Vonleh (1.6) gives them 74Mn in cap space. Now that doesn't factor in a hold for their 1st rounder (and they're in contention for #1) but I'm pretty sure they won't let a Mudiay prevent them from getting double max space.
So DSJ, Knox, Ntilikina, Robinson and (maybe) Zion plus 2 Max FAs would be pretty darn interesting.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 17:13:50 GMT -5
Agree with the "everyone can change their mind notion" but the C's insiders (Bulpett and Jackie Mac at the top) are scoffing at the notion so I put more weight towards that. The reports that have been there about Kyrie's interest in leaving are: 1. Reports about what AD's camp believe (as we are reminded during lying season, who does that benefit - Klutch/LAL) 2. I didn't directly see Bucher's report so this is based on what others are saying. But wasn't it almost a side comment? If it were a thing, seems strange to burry that within the larger article, no? Do you think Irving is all about Irving and what's best for his career? He's learned the game from LeBron who has to be the most unloyal great player of all-time. I'm not saying I buy the rumors he's leaving or wants to go to another team right now. I just think he'll weigh his options and if we aren't number one he's gone. All those quarky things RJP loves about him questioning everything. He'll do the samething after the season. Really do you think Irving signs the minute he can or waits for other teams to pitch him? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 17:23:52 GMT -5
I will add I don't think Irving resigning is a given either. I believe what he said, when he said it. Just things have kinda changed. We aren't the powerhouse people thought at this time. There isn't loyalty in todays NBA and Irving might not want to wait if he feels we are a few years away. People can change their minds and I feel Irving changes his all the time. So if you want Irving making a move to increase your chances in the playoffs is the smart play. I won't come close to fully trusting him till he actually resigns. Where could Kyrie sign that would offer him a better team than the one he currently has? Off the top of my head Knicks, Nets, and Lakers. All can make moves, add free agents, and make big trades. Lakers could be LeBron and Davis, Nets could trade for Davis then sign Irving, Knicks could get the #1 pick, plus KD and Irving. All three offee bigger markets and potentially more star power. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 17:55:10 GMT -5
Actually it’s not a Euro powerhouse because Doncic doesn’t have the athletic ability Doncic rates 65th among SFs in defensive real plus minus. He's 356 in the league currently. Guys like Doug McDermott rate higher. He plays on a team that rates 13th defensively and has a standout defender protecting the rim in Jordan. So this isn't he's on the worst defense in the NBA type crap. Yea he's the anti Brown because he has all those skills and moves we are waiting on Brown to develop. He won't make some massive jump like I expect Brown and Tatum to make as they gain experience and increase their skill levels. He's very unique in that he came into the league young, but with a higher skill level and more experience than maybe any player his age after playing in the second best league in the world for years. Then was handed the keys to a team that allows him to do anything he wants. He's going to be a good player. The debate was never that he wouldn't, it was could he be a superstar and best player from his draft class. I've seen nothing to shows his athleticism won't hold him back from reaching that. Lost in all the Doncic love feast is that Ayton his averaging 16 and 10. While having better advanced numbers like PER, win shares, win share per 48. I'd still take Ayton for his long-term potential. Heck I'm on the fence if I'd take Jackson over Doncic right now long-term. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2019 17:59:10 GMT -5
Off the top of my head Knicks, Nets, and Lakers. All can make moves, add free agents, and make big trades. Lakers could be LeBron and Davis, Nets could trade for Davis then sign Irving, Knicks could get the #1 pick, plus KD and Irving. All three offee bigger markets and potentially more star power. The Celtics could trade for Anthony Davis and he could die a week after the trade and we'd still field a more competitive team than the Knicks. Other than some obviously Rich Paul fabricated rumors we have no reason to assume he wouldn't stay. As for LA, Jason Kidd could be their next coach. Yeah, REAL basketball powerhouse it's going to be. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 18:23:25 GMT -5
Off the top of my head Knicks, Nets, and Lakers. All can make moves, add free agents, and make big trades. Lakers could be LeBron and Davis, Nets could trade for Davis then sign Irving, Knicks could get the #1 pick, plus KD and Irving. All three offee bigger markets and potentially more star power. The Celtics could trade for Anthony Davis and he could die a week after the trade and we'd still field a more competitive team than the Knicks. Other than some obviously Rich Paul fabricated rumors we have no reason to assume he wouldn't stay. As for LA, Jason Kidd could be their next coach. Yeah, REAL basketball powerhouse it's going to be. Really do you always need to go to crazy extremes? Williamson, the Knicks young players, KD, and Irving. Add in mid-level guys, bi-annual guys and vets. The other first round pick Dallas is going to get to sent to the Knicks. That isn't a crappy team. Especially if they can keep guys like Burke and Vonleh along with Knox, Smith, Robinson, and Triers. They'd actually have very good depth. Irving forced his way off a team that went to 3 straight finals and had the best player in the world. No one knows what he will do. Sure I'd say its likely he resigns, but far from a given. It just depends how we do the rest of the year and what other teams can create. Which is why I'd target a guy like Randle, so we can go far in the playoffs. A quick exit isn't going to help. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 31, 2019 18:47:37 GMT -5
You’re stretching with the Nets. Who can they trade that NOLA should want for Davis?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 31, 2019 18:53:33 GMT -5
I just hope the Lakers and LeBron come up empty again. Literally every LA rumor has turned out to be false surrounding players wanting to play with LeBron in LA. Hell, besides LeBron other free agents didn’t want to player there when they had space and they spent dumb money.
I will say this though, if the Lakers get Davis, Middleton is probably the perfect player for them and the most obtainable. You could also say Harris but i think the SG/SF wing fits better than the Sf/PF wing... both would work tho
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 18:58:31 GMT -5
So much of this really hinges on who gets AD. They immediately become a desired destination for FAs. And that DOES include Kyrie.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 19:29:07 GMT -5
You’re stretching with the Nets. Who can they trade that NOLA should want for Davis? It was on ESPN, they said the Nets could make a play. Some combo of Russell, LeVert, Allen and a couple of picks. Sure they can't have the best offer, but that isn't nothing either. ESPN is going crazy. Has the Lakers trading Kuzma, Ball, Ingram and 2023 and 2025 first round picks. Has us trading Tatum, Brown, Semi, Yabu and picks, yet it doesn't say which ones, just maybe not our best one. Those seem like crazy offers. Davis is a very good player, but he's not LeBron either. I don't think either team goes that big. It just guts both the Lakers and Celtics. If the Pelicans wait we can most likely make the best offer, but is Danny really going to do that? Tatum, Brown, and likely the kings plus another pick? Takes away your great wing depth, and makes you big heavy with Davis and Horford. A pairing that frankly isn't that great. Not that it can't work, it's just not ideal for todays NBA. I want Randle because against certain teams you play him next to Horford, against others you can use him to help the bench. Gives you a scoring big for 48 minutes if you need it. You'd be wasting Horfords all around game if you did that with him and trusting Morris and Hayward as our only SFs. Doesn't it make sense to deal Horford if you get Davis? Maybe I'm crazzy I just think Danny is going to try and make a trade that seems like a good deal. It's what he does. Flipping Horford for assets to reduce the cost kinda makes sense. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 31, 2019 19:36:13 GMT -5
You’re stretching with the Nets. Who can they trade that NOLA should want for Davis? It was on ESPN, they said the Nets could make a play. Some combo of Russell, LeVert, Allen and a couple of picks. Sure they can't have the best offer, but that isn't nothing either. ESPN is going crazy. Has the Lakers trading Kuzma, Ball, Ingram and 2023 and 2025 first round picks. Has us trading Tatum, Brown, Semi, Yabu and picks, yet it doesn't say which ones, just maybe not our best one. Those seem like crazy offers. Davis is a very good player, but he's not LeBron either. I don't think either team goes that big. It just guts both the Lakers and Celtics. If the Pelicans wait we can most likely make the best offer, but is Danny really going to do that? Tatum, Brown, and likely the kings plus another pick? Takes away your great wing depth, and makes you big heavy with Davis and Horford. A pairing that frankly isn't that great. Not that it can't work, it's just not ideal for todays NBA. I want Randle because against certain teams you play him next to Horford, against others you can use him to help the bench. Gives you a scoring big for 48 minutes if you need it. You'd be wasting Horfords all around game if you did that with him and trusting Morris and Hayward as our only SFs. Doesn't it make sense to deal Horford if you get Davis? Maybe I'm crazzy I just think Danny is going to try and make a trade that seems like a good deal. It's what he does. Flipping Horford for assets to reduce the cost kinda makes sense. Danny won’t trade Brown and Tatum in the same deal.... he better not at least. I agree with your reasoning on Davis. I want him but let’s be real, Him Horford and Kyrie aren’t exactly Iron men out there either. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2019 20:15:18 GMT -5
Really do you always need to go to crazy extremes? Williamson, the Knicks young players, KD, and Irving. Add in mid-level guys, bi-annual guys and vets. The other first round pick Dallas is going to get to sent to the Knicks. That isn't a crappy team. Especially if they can keep guys like Burke and Vonleh along with Knox, Smith, Robinson, and Triers. They'd actually have very good depth. Irving forced his way off a team that went to 3 straight finals and had the best player in the world. No one knows what he will do. Sure I'd say its likely he resigns, but far from a given. It just depends how we do the rest of the year and what other teams can create. Which is why I'd target a guy like Randle, so we can go far in the playoffs. A quick exit isn't going to help. KD? Now, it's flimsy enough to assume that Kyrie would want to go to the well of irrelevance that is the Knicks, but KD would do that do? To play with a really nice prospect but one that doesn't have a jumpshot? They have some talent, but not nearly enough talent to do anything. You're forgetting one thing about Kyrie. He forced out of a Lebron team. Lebron is an asshole who only cares about his own legacy. Not saying Kyrie is the best guy ever, but I don't blame him for wanting out especially since he was coached by a complete and utter moron and Lebron would not stick around. Different situation in Boston. |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 20:33:23 GMT -5
All of these arguments (on both sides) seem to require the transactions to be made in complete secrecy and be totally independant of each other.
KD would join NY bc he knows they have 2 max slots and knows someone is coming with him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 21:25:53 GMT -5
Really do you always need to go to crazy extremes? Williamson, the Knicks young players, KD, and Irving. Add in mid-level guys, bi-annual guys and vets. The other first round pick Dallas is going to get to sent to the Knicks. That isn't a crappy team. Especially if they can keep guys like Burke and Vonleh along with Knox, Smith, Robinson, and Triers. They'd actually have very good depth. Irving forced his way off a team that went to 3 straight finals and had the best player in the world. No one knows what he will do. Sure I'd say its likely he resigns, but far from a given. It just depends how we do the rest of the year and what other teams can create. Which is why I'd target a guy like Randle, so we can go far in the playoffs. A quick exit isn't going to help. KD? Now, it's flimsy enough to assume that Kyrie would want to go to the well of irrelevance that is the Knicks, but KD would do that do? To play with a really nice prospect but one that doesn't have a jumpshot? They have some talent, but not nearly enough talent to do anything. You're forgetting one thing about Kyrie. He forced out of a Lebron team. Lebron is an asshole who only cares about his own legacy. Not saying Kyrie is the best guy ever, but I don't blame him for wanting out especially since he was coached by a complete and utter moron and Lebron would not stick around. Different situation in Boston. It's just like Texas said, you get KD because you get Irving and you get Irving because they got KD. You get stars because you can add two of them in New York City. To go along with a high pick in what looks like a good draft and their young players. Allows KD and Irving a chance to win a championship with LeBron and the Warriors. Doing it for the Knicks would cement the legacy of both players. It's not crazy. I'm not blaming Irving, but it shows he's willing to move on if he thinks its in his best interest. |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 31, 2019 21:46:26 GMT -5
One of my favorite follows @dangercart just confirmed the nightmare scenario is possible(I may have the order of operation wrong but it can work, ultimately):
1. Knicks win the lottery and draft Zion.
2. Assuming they renounce ALL FAs, they could sign KD and a 30% max player (Kyrie, Kemba or Klay?).
3. 30 days after signing Zion, they package everything but the 2 max guys and send to NO for Davis.
The math seems to work (I have my own cap projection spreadsheet but always feel I'm missing something. The fact that someone else who focuses on this brings it up gives me confidence that it works).
The variables are:
1. Knicks winning the lottery
2. NO feeling Zion + DSJ + KK + MR + FN is the best offer
3. The FA's mentioned choosing this route.
That would . . . Not be great. Unless you feel Tatum, Brown, Gordon, Al, Smart and (likely) Rozier could beat that team.
Not saying they couldn't but still. Not great.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 21:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 22:03:14 GMT -5
Welcome to the Lakers Anthony Davis. No way the Celtics should beat that. Oh well. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 1, 2019 7:36:55 GMT -5
Welcome to the Lakers Anthony Davis. No way the Celtics should beat that. Oh well. Not even close. You can make a good argument that if they keep the rest of the players it could make them a better team. Along with Randle it's the complete Lakers rebuild for one player. Yea they might not be stars, but at worst that is 3 solid starters in my book. Likely a lot better than solid also. I just don't see how you don't accept that offer. I'd try for another first and fight over protections on the picks, but that's it. Gotta say not even that upset because a deal like that is the last thing I wanted. The Lakers look poised to be great for years. Very good young core, cap space for two max guys. Then LeBron happens, they dump Randle for Rondo because LeBron wants him. Now the complete young core for Davis, then another free agent. Better win one before LeBron declines because it's going to take years and years to rebuild the depth. |
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Post by texs31 on Feb 1, 2019 8:26:47 GMT -5
IF NO felt that was the best offer, it'd be done no? If no deal is made by 2/7, it would suggest to me that NO would perceive Tatum and Zion as their best "gets" in a Davis trade. Every other asset is currently on the table one would think. The best asset Boston has and the #1 overall pick are the only things that aren't (I don't THINK Barrett or Ja Morant would be up there) currently available/known to the Pelicans.
So the question is who gets the #1 pick and how much more on top of Tatum will Danny have to add to beat the "next best" assets of the team who can offer Zion. What could make the answer to that 2nd question frustrating is the fact that Danny might feel he's not just bidding to get AD but also to keep Kyrie. How far will he go to do it? Yikes.
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