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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 22, 2018 14:12:25 GMT -5
Kimbrel is still asking for 5 years at 80 million. That's what the article was saying. Pedro the article says what he currently is asking for and what sources thinks the Red Sox will offer.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 22, 2018 14:26:17 GMT -5
Kimbrel is still asking for 5 years at 80 million. That's what the article was saying. Pedro the article says what he currently is asking for and what sources thinks the Red Sox will offer. I don't see the Sox offering 60-70 million for Kimbrel with Feltman coming. I know they're not in on him for 80+ million. I'd rather part with Kimbrel.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 22, 2018 15:32:48 GMT -5
I miss missing Hembree (a round about way of saying I wish he was shown the door...but...he is ours for another year.....alas)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 22, 2018 16:23:31 GMT -5
I miss missing Hembree (a round about way of saying I wish he was shown the door...but...he is ours for another year.....alas) He was ours for another year baring a trade when we tendered him. This (he came to terms with the Sox avoiding arbitration) just set the price. Like him or not, Hembree has trade value.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 22, 2018 16:30:41 GMT -5
Pedro the article says what he currently is asking for and what sources thinks the Red Sox will offer. I don't see the Sox offering 60-70 million for Kimbrel with Feltman coming. I know they're not in on him for 80+ million. I'd rather part with Kimbrel. Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 22, 2018 17:05:46 GMT -5
I don't see the Sox offering 60-70 million for Kimbrel with Feltman coming. I know they're not in on him for 80+ million. I'd rather part with Kimbrel. Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target. LOL, I simultaneously agree and disagree with both of you. Feltman has little or nothing to do with it but I doubt if the Sox view Kimbrel as their top target unless he comes down significantly more than he's likely to, say 4/60.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 22, 2018 17:20:09 GMT -5
Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target. LOL, I simultaneously agree and disagree with both of you. Feltman has little or nothing to do with it but I doubt if the Sox view Kimbrel as their top target unless he comes down significantly more than he's likely to, say 4/60. Kimbrel will come way down. He can’t get what no one wants to pay and who’s out there that’s going to break the bank? Everyone keeps saying Philly because their owner said some stuff but Philly hasn’t come close to spending stupid money. But yea they could possibly, but who else? Just because one guy got X and Kimbrel is a good comp doesn’t mean Kimbrel also gets x. There needs to be a team willing to give it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 22, 2018 17:37:30 GMT -5
Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target. LOL, I simultaneously agree and disagree with both of you. Feltman has little or nothing to do with it but I doubt if the Sox view Kimbrel as their top target unless he comes down significantly more than he's likely to, say 4/60. Well that is what the article says. 4 years 60 to 70 million. Personally I'm not going more than 4 years 60 million.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 22, 2018 17:50:01 GMT -5
To me, he's highly unlikely to drop to the Sox range though. Like Kelly, other teams, the Phillies for example, are likely to go higher than the Sox are likely to go, maybe significantly higher.
Generic question, proper punctuation, should there be a comma after Phillies? Or a coma after this question ?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 22, 2018 19:05:09 GMT -5
Durbin Feltman has nothing to do with the calculus on Craig Kimbrel. Absolutely nothing. Durbin Feltman is not a Top-300 prospect in baseball. Which doesn't mean he won't be good, of course--it just means they aren't standing pat on the major league bullpen for him. Or for Travis Lakins, Colten Brewer, or anyone else not in the majors.
People's love for relievers they have never seen give up a run before is running even higher than usual this offseason. Which, frankly, I didn't think was possible.
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Post by soxfan50 on Dec 22, 2018 19:43:29 GMT -5
LOL, I simultaneously agree and disagree with both of you. Feltman has little or nothing to do with it but I doubt if the Sox view Kimbrel as their top target unless he comes down significantly more than he's likely to, say 4/60. Well that is what the article says. 4 years 60 to 70 million. Personally I'm not going more than 4 years 60 million. I wouldn't go over 4 years at 50 million, and I'm not even really that thrilled with those numbers.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 22, 2018 19:49:34 GMT -5
Collect the pick, DD.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2018 20:26:04 GMT -5
Ultimately he will, but it's going to be after the 4th round I think, not the 1st.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 22, 2018 21:29:46 GMT -5
Kimbrel is reportedly asking for 5/$86, which means that no one had offered him that. I'm guessing no one has offered him a 5th year, and that the offers have maxed out at about 4/$70M.
I still think that he tried or is trying to bluff teams into offering him a 5th year by saying he'd come back here for 1/$18, and that this is why we went from having moved on, to being in the conversation again. The pitch is "I'm so confident that I'll be super-elite again that a year from now, you're going to pony up 4 years for a higher AAV, so you come out ahead by just giving me 5 years now."
It's actually a very good ploy if teams think you're serious, and it would indeed make sense that the Sox would go for it and that Kimbrel wouldn't mind it.
I thought the odds were 20-1 against him coming back for a year before he cut his requested AAV by $2M a year; now I think they're more like 50-1. If no one goes above 4/$70 I could see him coming back for 1/$18, or taking it. But someone will probably go in his desired direction. I don't know how important the 5th year truly is to him.
I don't buy any report that we'd sign him long-term for market value. The marginal upgrade over the next best option isn't worth the headaches the extra salary will cause as they try to get under the cap in 2020.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 22, 2018 22:11:33 GMT -5
Ultimately he will, but it's going to be after the 4th round I think, not the 1st. Yep, and that’s fine. It just seems a bit spendthrift to make it rain on guys who don’t even give 100 IP.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 22, 2018 22:28:35 GMT -5
“...and he punches a couple guys out, just to stay in shape” My most enduring description of a Koji performance, thanks Eck. His exuberance was my favorite part of that team. For that year, he was the best Sox reliever of my lifetime, in every single way. On the short list of my all-time favorites, which says a lot given his short tenure here.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 22, 2018 22:34:30 GMT -5
Kimbrel is reportedly asking for 5/$86, which means that no one had offered him that. I'm guessing no one has offered him a 5th year, and that the offers have maxed out at about 4/$70M.
I still think that he tried or is trying to bluff teams into offering him a 5th year by saying he'd come back here for 1/$18, and that this is why we went from having moved on, to being in the conversation again. The pitch is "I'm so confident that I'll be super-elite again that a year from now, you're going to pony up 4 years for a higher AAV, so you come out ahead by just giving me 5 years now."
It's actually a very good ploy if teams think you're serious, and it would indeed make sense that the Sox would go for it and that Kimbrel wouldn't mind it.
I thought the odds were 20-1 against him coming back for a year before he cut his requested AAV by $2M a year; now I think they're more like 50-1. If no one goes above 4/$70 I could see him coming back for 1/$18, or taking it. But someone will probably go in his desired direction. I don't know how important the 5th year truly is to him.
I don't buy any report that we'd sign him long-term for market value. The marginal upgrade over the next best option isn't worth the headaches the extra salary will cause as they try to get under the cap in 2020.
I predicted he might take the QO (low but nonzero chance). Obviously I didn’t think he would, but...if he takes a 1/$18, I’m calling it a wash. I mean, it was highly unlikely he’d take the one year without testing the market, but the rationale you’re describing is exactly what I described back then. If he’s convinced he can be awesome this year, and willing to bet on himself, he’ll get overpaid for a year and could then take a 4/72 or 5/85 next winter and come out way ahead.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 22, 2018 22:46:41 GMT -5
I don't see the Sox offering 60-70 million for Kimbrel with Feltman coming. I know they're not in on him for 80+ million. I'd rather part with Kimbrel. Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target. Yeah, I like Feltman too, but they don’t even know if he can pitch in MLB at all yet, let alone be a top-10 closer. I do think that’s why Kimbrel taking a 1-year (unlikely but possible) is ideal. By next fall the Sox should know 1) if Matt Barnes can do his awesomeness consistently for a full season, without the midsummer hiccup, 2) if Ryan Brasier is the real deal or if that bottle of lightning is empty, and 3) if Travis Lakins and Durban Feltman are A) MLB-caliber, and B) what caliber that is. DD is the ultimate “I’m going to do what I want/need now and sort out any issues later” kind of guy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2018 22:54:52 GMT -5
“...and he punches a couple guys out, just to stay in shape” My most enduring description of a Koji performance, thanks Eck. His exuberance was my favorite part of that team. For that year, he was the best Sox reliever of my lifetime, in every single way. On the short list of my all-time favorites, which says a lot given his short tenure here. I think of the list of closers I've watched since I've been a fan: Tom Burgmeier, Mark Clear, Bob Stanley, Calvin Schiraldi, Lee Smith, Jeff Reardon, Jeff Russell, Ken Ryan, Rick Aguilera, Heathcliff Slocumb, Tom Gordon, Rod Beck, Tim Wakefield, Derek Lowe, Uggie Urbina, Byung-Hyun Kim, Scott Williamson, Keith Foulke, Jonathan Papelbon, Andrew Bailey, Alfredo Aceves, Joel Hanrahan, and Craig Kimbrel, but Koji, by far, is my favorite. Smith, Reardon, and Aguilera were prominent closers and pitched mostly well for the Sox. Foulke was awesome in 2004. Tom Gordon saved just about everything that needed saving in 1998. Kimbrel had as dominating a year as anybody could have in 2017. Papelbon was the best long-term closer the Sox had. But none of them gave me the comfort that Koji gave me in 2013. The guy was called "The Ninja" for a reason. He was in and then out before anybody knew what hit them. No long innings. No fears of batters being walked. Only endless loops of guys swinging at disappearing splitters. And of course guys always missed his 89 MPH fastball. And what was so cool was that on a team filled with bearded guys, here was this guy who has to be the least intimidating looking closer of all-time. This was a guy that Big Papi would throw over his shoulders as if he was Santa delivering a sack of toys. I loved watching him sling Koji over his shoulder. What other closer could that ever happen to? I totally miss that guy. The "prerequisite" to get into the Red Sox HOF is 3 seasons with the team. Koji managed that, so I hope they get around to inducting him into the Red Sox HOF. I'd love to see him back. The only pitcher I enjoyed watching more than Koji was vintage Pedro. Had I been able to watch Tiant, I'm sure I would have enjoyed him. I loved watching Clemens, too, and Sale is a joy, but Koji was right up there with them.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2018 22:59:42 GMT -5
mlbtraderumors.com references a NY Post article that says that the Red Sox don't think they're going to wind up with Dave Robertson. The sticking point is that 3rd year. The Phillies are interested in the Robertson and might give him that 3rd year.
If they do that, and they sign Britton, perhaps they'd be out of the Kimbrel sweepstakes?
With Robertson not likely going to Boston, and if Kimbrel's price and year demands don't go down, then where are the Sox turning. I would think Ottavino might get 3 years. Then you're looking at Herrera perhaps?
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Dec 22, 2018 23:24:00 GMT -5
mlbtraderumors.com references a NY Post article that says that the Red Sox don't think they're going to wind up with Dave Robertson. The sticking point is that 3rd year. The Phillies are interested in the Robertson and might give him that 3rd year. If they do that, and they sign Britton, perhaps they'd be out of the Kimbrel sweepstakes? With Robertson not likely going to Boston, and if Kimbrel's price and year demands don't go down, then where are the Sox turning. I would think Ottavino might get 3 years. Then you're looking at Herrera perhaps? And right after mlbtraderumors mentions the NY Post Article, Mark Feinsand posts the Sox are still in the mix for Robertson and there's mutual interest. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Link
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Post by telson13 on Dec 22, 2018 23:49:38 GMT -5
“...and he punches a couple guys out, just to stay in shape” My most enduring description of a Koji performance, thanks Eck. His exuberance was my favorite part of that team. For that year, he was the best Sox reliever of my lifetime, in every single way. On the short list of my all-time favorites, which says a lot given his short tenure here. I think of the list of closers I've watched since I've been a fan: Tom Burgmeier, Mark Clear, Bob Stanley, Calvin Schiraldi, Lee Smith, Jeff Reardon, Jeff Russell, Ken Ryan, Rick Aguilera, Heathcliff Slocumb, Tom Gordon, Rod Beck, Tim Wakefield, Derek Lowe, Uggie Urbina, Byung-Hyun Kim, Scott Williamson, Keith Foulke, Jonathan Papelbon, Andrew Bailey, Alfredo Aceves, Joel Hanrahan, and Craig Kimbrel, but Koji, by far, is my favorite. Smith, Reardon, and Aguilera were prominent closers and pitched mostly well for the Sox. Foulke was awesome in 2004. Tom Gordon saved just about everything that needed saving in 1998. Kimbrel had as dominating a year as anybody could have in 2017. Papelbon was the best long-term closer the Sox had. But none of them gave me the comfort that Koji gave me in 2013. The guy was called "The Ninja" for a reason. He was in and then out before anybody knew what hit them. No long innings. No fears of batters being walked. Only endless loops of guys swinging at disappearing splitters. And of course guys always missed his 89 MPH fastball. And what was so cool was that on a team filled with bearded guys, here was this guy who has to be the least intimidating looking closer of all-time. This was a guy that Big Papi would throw over his shoulders as if he was Santa delivering a sack of toys. I loved watching him sling Koji over his shoulder. What other closer could that ever happen to? I totally miss that guy. The "prerequisite" to get into the Red Sox HOF is 3 seasons with the team. Koji managed that, so I hope they get around to inducting him into the Red Sox HOF. I'd love to see him back. The only pitcher I enjoyed watching more than Koji was vintage Pedro. Had I been able to watch Tiant, I'm sure I would have enjoyed him. I loved watching Clemens, too, and Sale is a joy, but Koji was right up there with them. We’re probably around the same age, as that’s roughly my list. Kudos on a great memory, btw. And basically, I agree with everything you said. I liked Gordon a lot, as he performed generally well and he was awesome for that one year (and just seemed like a great guy to boot), and for longevity/quality Papelbon was terrific. The late ‘70s-mid ‘90s was a string of ugh for me. Even the “good” guys, like Aguilera or Smith...I hated watching them pitch. Just no confidence. Prob why I liked Gordon so much, because for a little while, he was money. And Foulke was excellent for a short time, too, though he wasn’t much to watch. But for pure joy of watching, Billy Wagner and Koji were my favorite Sox relievers. Wagner...I wish he’d stuck around. Like a LH Gordon at well under 6’ but even more gas and that nasty slider. Plus that year with the Sox I think he dabbled with a changeup that was pretty damn good, too. And Koji...I’ve never seen any player have as much fun on the field. Not even close. His energy was incredible, and infectious. What a guy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 22, 2018 23:56:14 GMT -5
I don't see the Sox offering 60-70 million for Kimbrel with Feltman coming. I know they're not in on him for 80+ million. I'd rather part with Kimbrel. Ok, you can have your opinion, it doesn't change the report. I will say Feltman has zero to do with it. The guy has like 20 pro innings and hasn't been above A ball. DD isn't like no Kimbrel because I got that guy in A ball that just pitched 20 innings. Come on now. Maybe you don't want him, but it sure seems Kimbrel is the Red Sox top target. Feltman isn't a factor into a closer for the short term, but that's big term dollars. The Sox will have to cut long term costs somewhere in the near future at some positions. Relievers seem like the best spot to do it with the farm having top end talent at this position potentially. Spending on a closer with walk and homerun problems already is a terrible idea.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 23, 2018 0:11:52 GMT -5
Durbin Feltman has nothing to do with the calculus on Craig Kimbrel. Absolutely nothing. Durbin Feltman is not a Top-300 prospect in baseball. Which doesn't mean he won't be good, of course--it just means they aren't standing pat on the major league bullpen for him. Or for Travis Lakins, Colten Brewer, or anyone else not in the majors. People's love for relievers they have never seen give up a run before is running even higher than usual this offseason. Which, frankly, I didn't think was possible. No one is saying they will be standing pat. Everyone knows the Sox will be getting some reliever. The question is long term spending versus short term on a reliever. If Kimbrel wants a short term deal because of the market (like 1-2 years), then that's fine. The Sox have said for weeks that they're not spending high AAV dollars for even short term money on a reliever however. The Sox have talked out of both sides of their mouths all off-season with their off-season plan beyond the Eovaldi signing. They've said they don't want to go past the highest luxury tax, but want to do anything to win this year. They don't want to spend high AAV dollars even on short years for a relieve, yet they are monitoring the Kimbrel market.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 23, 2018 0:24:16 GMT -5
Why in the world if Kimbrel had 4 years 70 million on the table would he take 1 year 18 million? 17.5 million per would be a new record per year no? Chapman makes 17.2 million. If he can't get 5 years now, chances he won't next year either. You going to risk 52 million so you maybe can make 20 million per year? I just don't see the risk/reward being worth it. Next year could be no Yankees, no Red Sox, no Dodgers, no Phillies looking at a closer. Where does a mega offer come from?
I don't buy for one second he has a 4 year 70 million offer either. He moved on from 6 years 100 plus million rather quickly. The market wouldn't give Miller a true three year deal. Took a bunch of teams battling to get what he got. He might get that, but I don't think that offer is sitting on the table. Agents would leake that and use that information to start a bidding war. The the exact opposite of what we are hearing, which is that is market is weak.
No way the Red Sox are waiting on Kimbrel to take a one year deal. Makes zero sense. Yet we have heard they are for the past two weeks from 15 different sources. Heck we are now getting reports of what type of offer they would maybe sign him too. Waiting to see if 4 years 60 to 70 million gets Kimbrel makes sense. I buy that. If that isn't enough you move on. I love Kimbrel, but I'm not going crazy.
I get a bunch of you just don't want Kimbrel. Yet he's the safest bet for DD and that is his style. Kimbrel has anchored a top 10 bullpen for the past 3 years straight. His impact has been massive. Yea he didn't look good after the all-star break on, yet before that was likely the best year and half stretch of any Red Sox reliever ever. That bad stretch could be the reason you get him for a lot less. 4 years 60 million historically is a great deal for a pitcher like Kimbrel.
I really think Kimbrel signs with the Red Sox unless another team goes big. Team gives him 5 years he's gone. Team gives him the highest per year salary on a 4 year deal he's gone. Anything less and we are in play.
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