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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 15, 2019 21:03:09 GMT -5
What might it take to get Mike Conley?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 15, 2019 21:39:40 GMT -5
What might it take to get Mike Conley? A sign and trade that will never happen. Can Horford opt out and the Celtics have cap space? I don't know the answer to these questions, but the Celtics don't have cap space at the moment. That much I do know at this point. |
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Post by swingingbunt on Jun 15, 2019 22:01:20 GMT -5
What might it take to get Mike Conley? A sign and trade that will never happen. Can Horford opt out and the Celtics have cap space? I don't know the answer to these questions, but the Celtics don't have cap space at the moment. That much I do know at this point. Still wouldn't be enough for a max. |
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,791
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 15, 2019 22:16:18 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm glad that the Celts didn't destroy their future for 1 season of Davis as great as he is.
I'm also glad that Irving will be gone. I think if they can fill in the pieces well, they'll be able to function as a team better going forward and Tatum and Brown will step up their games.
Irving showed that he cannot lead a young team. I don't fault Ainge for bringing Irvin in. It's too bad Thomas is a shell of his former self. That was a guy who loved be a Celtic. Never had that impression with Irving.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 15, 2019 22:17:38 GMT -5
Conley is not a Free Agent.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 15, 2019 22:20:41 GMT -5
In a game of stars, we now have a bunch of pretty good role players. Hope everyone likes the second round of the playoffs because that's basically the ceiling of this team for the foreseeable future. If they were just pretty good role players, would the Cs have EVER been in the discussions for AD? Or maybe, just maybe, those that do this for a living think some of these guys have a pretty good chance of being better than that? |
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Post by swingingbunt on Jun 15, 2019 23:00:06 GMT -5
The Lakers just traded role players (and a crap ton of draft capital) for AD. So yes. The Celtics would have been in the discussion either eay.
I mean, role players might be harsh on Tatum, but he's not a star either. He's a good player, but he won't push a team over the top without an actual star on his team.
I don't think it's all that controversial to say that the window is now closed. Danny stock piled assets for years, drafted players who were perfect players to work alongside stars, but never really got the stars that he needed for a championship.
Now the one star he did trade for is leaving, and he didn't want to mortgage the future on the chance that another star would do the same. It is what it is, but this team won't be sniffing an ECF for a while.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 15, 2019 23:18:42 GMT -5
F*cking let them have him. I did not want to live through the same drama we did we Kyrie. Build around Tatum, Brown and Smart. Will that be enough to chip? It probably won't, but it will be a fun ride.
The ideal move would be to buy low on Capela anyway.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 16, 2019 0:23:56 GMT -5
On second thought, did you guys watch Maggie? That Arnie flick where his daughter turns into a zombie, which I'm totally spoiling right now as an argument. Remember how terrible the ending was. It was the safe ending. It meant Arnie didn't have to kill her and she didn't kill him either. She didn't even escape into the wilderness. Nothing. There was an intense emotional buildup and the ending was kinda like yeah man I don't like it, this was pretty stupid.
I feel like they got too attached to the characters in their HUMANITY drama and overplayed their hands. So they took the safe route and didn't risk anything and it moved the movie from an possibly great viewing to a yeah if I have nothing else to do.
It's exactly how Danny ran the Boston Celtics in the past few years. The Warriors got him shook, he overrated the assets, and now it's a suboptimal collection of talent that never had a legit shot in the past few seasons and may not have one again so soon. It's how the writers messed up that ending and it's how we might have gotten screwed out of a happy one (not too unlike the one Delonte got from Lebron's mom). You get attached and you freeze and don't want to risk anything. It ends lame.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 6:50:21 GMT -5
I’m glad Danny never made Tatum available in talks and the package NOLA got pretty much proves that. The path now is at least clear and it’s not necessarily as bad as you think it is.
1. things change quickly in the NBA as we’ve seen.
2. The Celtics still have 2 players who can be legitimate stars in Tatum and Brown and those guys now have the keys to be free and get it done.
3. Don’t discount Hayward in his second year back.
4. They still have a lot of draft picks and young guys who can turn into assets. Plus they will resign certain guys and have salary to also deal.
5. Jerryd Bayless, Robert Covington, Dario Šarić and a 2022 second-round draft pick... that’s all it took to get Butler.
6. Wilson Chandler, Mike Muscala and Landry Shamet is all it took to get Tobias Harris.
7. The point of 5 and 6 is to show you don’t need All-stars to deal for one. In fact, it very rarely happens (the Spurs probably want a redo on getting DeRozen). I don’t like this draft but if Danny can get solid players they are now trade assets.
8. Everyone likes to blame Kyrie but don’t discount our young guys getting big heads last offseason and thinking they were better than they were. They coasted thinking they’d make the finals and got their asses kicked. It should be lesson learned.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 8:22:49 GMT -5
Still not sure what I wanted. Losing Kyrie is one of the few fails in Danny's GM tenure.
But I agree with most of the other parts. Definitely interested to see what happens next with Al.
Agree with rjp that they should keep Rozier now but, for me, it's more to retain the asset and move him later. Question becomes what that looks like. Do they keep him on a long deal or the QO. They probably let this play out like Smart.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 8:28:58 GMT -5
I've heard that there is a non Cs draft trade depending on who is available. Kyler and others hearing that if Reddish is there at 10, Atlanta will trade 10 and 17 to Cleveland for 5.
Wonder what that means for Boston maybe moving up. What would 14 and 20 get?
I know some feel you dont trade up in a flat draft but I wonder if we are misinterpreted the notion of flat.
I wonder if it means a lack of consensus but that individuals might still have guys they like and a steeper board. IF that's the case, then a trade up would make sense.
That being said, as of now, I dont think there have been reports of workouts for guys projected in the top 10 (not that they couldn't get some guys in if needed).
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 8:55:23 GMT -5
I've heard that there is a non Cs draft trade depending on who is available. Kyler and others hearing that if Reddish is there at 10, Atlanta will trade 10 and 17 to Cleveland for 5. Wonder what that means for Boston maybe moving up. What would 14 and 20 get? I know some feel you dont trade up in a flat draft but I wonder if we are misinterpreted the notion of flat. I wonder if it means a lack of consensus but that individuals might still have guys they like and a steeper board. IF that's the case, then a trade up would make sense. That being said, as of now, I dont think there have been reports of workouts for guys projected in the top 10 (not that they couldn't get some guys in if needed). I don’t even get how that trade works unless Cleveland and Atlanta want the same guy at 5. You can’t pick at 5 not knowing if Reddish is there at 10. In the analytical world where all players are graded then it doesn’t make sense to trade up in a flat draft. In the real world where not all players are the same, and there’s someone you really like then you trade up for him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 9:01:57 GMT -5
Still not sure what I wanted. Losing Kyrie is one of the few fails in Danny's GM tenure. But I agree with most of the other parts. Definitely interested to see what happens next with Al. Agree with rjp that they should keep Rozier now but, for me, it's more to retain the asset and move him later. Question becomes what that looks like. Do they keep him on a long deal or the QO. They probably let this play out like Smart. Very few want to lose Kyrie for nothing. I don’t consider that trade a loss. It was a risk worth taking and they didn’t give up that much considering all the assets they have. It’s a swing you take every time and that’s how it should be judged. Rozier should be kept for a lot of reasons. If it’s in the QO, then it’s cheap and letting him start for a year to see what he can do is worthwhile. You cannot trade him if he’s back on the QO unless he agrees. If it’s matching an offer, my guess is it will be reasonable money. No more than 4/70 and that is probably high but it becomes a tradable salary in a deal if nothing else. If it’s an extension then we know the terms will be decent and the above applies. Ultimately, unless Kyrie is back then Rozier is almost certain to be which was the whole point of not dealing him last year. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 9:26:51 GMT -5
I guess I wasnt making failure and something he had to do as opposite choices.
Agree he had to do it.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 9:31:52 GMT -5
I've heard that there is a non Cs draft trade depending on who is available. Kyler and others hearing that if Reddish is there at 10, Atlanta will trade 10 and 17 to Cleveland for 5. Wonder what that means for Boston maybe moving up. What would 14 and 20 get? I know some feel you dont trade up in a flat draft but I wonder if we are misinterpreted the notion of flat. I wonder if it means a lack of consensus but that individuals might still have guys they like and a steeper board. IF that's the case, then a trade up would make sense. That being said, as of now, I dont think there have been reports of workouts for guys projected in the top 10 (not that they couldn't get some guys in if needed). I don’t even get how that trade works unless Cleveland and Atlanta want the same guy at 5. You can’t pick at 5 not knowing if Reddish is there at 10. In the analytical world where all players are graded then it doesn’t make sense to trade up in a flat draft. In the real world where not all players are the same, and there’s someone you really like then you trade up for him. The idea (per Kyler and others) is that Cle likely feels the draft is flatter. So they dont think there is as much of a difference between Reddish and, say, Culver (that's who Atlanta is supposedly coveting). Meanwhile, Atl wants (per the rumors) Culver and doesnt think they can get him at 8 or 10. So Cleveland takes Culver. If Reddish doesnt last, they keep him and are fine with that. If Reddish drops, they trade and get someone they they like just as much AND 17. EDIT: So it is as you said. I just added Culvers name for the reported specifics. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 16, 2019 10:33:11 GMT -5
I guess I wasnt making failure and something he had to do as opposite choices. Agree he had to do it. I’d say it didn’t work out not it was a Danny Ainge failure... may be semantics but i think it’s a worthwhile distinction. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 10:42:42 GMT -5
That's fair.
Just add that I dont want a GM who is not willing to lose some. Those guys never make a move.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 10:45:43 GMT -5
No longer Cs related but reports are the Davis deal will be consummated as soon as the league year opens. This means they will only have 27m in space. That's not enough for a 7-9 year max guy (Kyrie).
If they had signed the draft pick and waited, they would have enough for the 7-9 yr max
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 16, 2019 10:50:13 GMT -5
No longer Cs related but reports are the Davis deal will be consummated as soon as the league year opens. This means they will only have 27m in space. That's not enough for a 7-9 year max guy (Kyrie). If they had signed the draft pick and waited, they would have enough for the 7-9 yr max But if Davis waives his $4.7M trade kicker? |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 10:52:58 GMT -5
Still no. Keith Smith had the numbers showing the 3 distinctions.
Edit : Keith saying its 23m in space if immediate and no waiving of trade kicker. 27 if waiving. Max slot if they waited
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 16, 2019 10:55:49 GMT -5
Still no. Keith Smith had the numbers showing the 3 distinctions. Will be interesting to see where Irving goes then. He still says he wants to play with Davis. I can't see him going to the Nets by himself. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 16, 2019 11:01:36 GMT -5
I'M no expert but using Sportrac numbers. If Irving leaves, Horford opts outs, and you waive your cap holds you can get $40,225,530 in cap space. That includes the money for our three draft picks. Rozier cap hold is $9,151,170, Morris is $10,212,500, the others don't matter in my opinion.
So if Irving leaves, Horford opts in, and you want to keep Rozier you have zero cap space. Yet if you wanted to get creative by trading Baynes and Yabu, while waiving the cap holds you could get close to max money for a guy like Russell. If Horford signs a team friendly extension, you could keep Rozier and add a young max free agent if you can move Baynes and not take back any money.
I don't want to lose Horford though, he's a huge part of this team. So if you want cap space, a team friendly extension is the best way.
Edit; My numbers are going to be a little high, you'd have to minus an incomplete roster charge at the minimum for the amount of roster spots not filled and I'll have to research what that is based off 12 man 15 man, do the two-way contracts count? It won't be massive but could eat up 3-5 million in cap space.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 16, 2019 11:11:46 GMT -5
Smart, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Williams and the 3 draft picks leave you with 27m. They can create more by manipulating the picks (trading, selling or stashing).
Not sure where Spottrac gets their number.
Edit Baynes too
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 16, 2019 11:24:57 GMT -5
Luka Samanic, remember that name.
The C's are not dead in their quest for a championship but it is going to take longer. They will be in the thick of it for a while with all of there developing young talent.
Not sure what Roziers future holds without Kyrie around but I am sure he will get his opportunity, I doubt though that he is the answer. Which isn't terrible as there isn't a real shortage on guards who would look good playing Stevens system. Also expect the C's to run the ball more thru AL and GH without Kyrie there.
Glad they didn't mortgage the future for a guy who sent out the signals that he didn't want to stay, smart Danny.
Wouldn't it be great if IT came back and filled the role of Vinnie the Microwave off the bench as many thought would be his best role when he was here before. Winning comeback player of the year, it would be a great story.
I really hope that the Brow hates playing with Lebron or Lebron continues to have injury problems or anything really to derail the Lakers trip back to being relevant. If AD leaves there wfter they gave up all those picks, LOL, that would be awesome. It would be like the Lakers would be as bad as the Cowboys have been for 25 years.
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