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6/17-6/19 Red Sox @ Twins Series Thread
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 19, 2019 15:40:48 GMT -5
The way you pop in after any loss and then disappear when they win sure is something. It just took 17 innings for a 47-24 team, playing at home, to end their six-game winning streak. If you're taking that as "they can't beat winning teams" then I don't know. You can easily look at the Rangers thread and the beginning of this Twins series and see that I have posted in here. Go on, go look. Not my fault the Red Sox can't sustain any notable success. I was planning on updating the math thread regardless of how they did against the Twins. I wanted to wait a couple series. Since they started that winning streak, you have 61 posts. 20 during the winning streak (including the three in the Bruins thread, and one in GOT), six during last night's game, and THIRTY-FIVE since the loss. You have more than twice as many posts since the loss last night than you did about baseball for a whole damn week while they were winning. But go on, tell us how you're not just trolling and only updating when the team loses so you can flip about how helpless the team is.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 19, 2019 15:45:53 GMT -5
You can easily look at the Rangers thread and the beginning of this Twins series and see that I have posted in here. Go on, go look. Not my fault the Red Sox can't sustain any notable success. I was planning on updating the math thread regardless of how they did against the Twins. I wanted to wait a couple series. Since they started that winning streak, you have 61 posts. 20 during the winning streak (including the three in the Bruins thread, and one in GOT), six during last night's game, and THIRTY-FIVE since the loss. Cool? There really wasn't much to talk about when they were beating Baltimore. They did what they should against the worst team in baseball. They're 14-2 against the dregs of baseball. I made some comments on the win against Minnesota and called it encouraging. I, once again, was literally telling someone else that their negative take was a stretch if the Sox win tonight because they're on a good run. In fact, go back and read the Rangers game thread when I pom pom waving for the bullpen that ultimately blew it. I have so many posts since then because of all the crying that someone has the audacity to say their season hasn't been great. It hasn't.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 19, 2019 16:04:32 GMT -5
The Red Sox bullpen is terrible. This game wasn't an example of that. I’m convinced it’s the names, not the performance, that has people thinking they’re bad. But really, they’re pretty good. They’re tied for 6th in fWAR in MLB. And they lead all of baseball in K/9. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 They’ve had some issues, for certain. They’ve had a few too many innings because of the poor first few weeks the starters had, and they’re not particularly deep in terms of real quality. But looking at it objectively, they’ve been one of the best bullpens in baseball. And on top of that, the results have been pretty consistent with Statcast, at least for the top-4 (Barnes, Workman, Walden, Brasier). Brasier and Brewer have been better lately; they’re paring out the guys who were hurting them. Would an excellent reliever help? Sure. But I definitely wouldn’t remotely call it a “need.” It’s a luxury. Personally, I’m all for an acquisition, *provided the cost is very reasonable*, in both $ to stay under the lux tax top tier, and in talent going back. But I don’t even remotely get the screams for another uber-arm. I’d prefer they continue to work with Taylor and Brewer, and maybe...*maybe* make a trade at the deadline. I just don’t get the obsession some have with trying to continuously churn the BP. Their problem is that Mookie, JDM, and Beni are all substantially worse than last year. Adding a bullpen arm isn’t going to change their problems with producing runs.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 19, 2019 16:14:54 GMT -5
The Red Sox bullpen is terrible. This game wasn't an example of that. I’m convinced it’s the names, not the performance, that has people thinking they’re bad. But really, they’re pretty good. They’re tied for 6th in fWAR in MLB. And they lead all of baseball in K/9. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 They’ve had some issues, for certain. They’ve had a few too many innings because of the poor first few weeks the starters had, and they’re not particularly deep in terms of real quality. But looking at it objectively, they’ve been one of the best bullpens in baseball. And on top of that, the results have been pretty consistent with Statcast, at least for the top-4 (Barnes, Workman, Walden, Brasier). Brasier and Brewer have been better lately; they’re paring out the guys who were hurting them. Would an excellent reliever help? Sure. But I definitely wouldn’t remotely call it a “need.” It’s a luxury. Personally, I’m all for an acquisition, *provided the cost is very reasonable*, in both $ to stay under the lux tax top tier, and in talent going back. But I don’t even remotely get the screams for another uber-arm. I’d prefer they continue to work with Taylor and Brewer, and maybe...*maybe* make a trade at the deadline. I just don’t get the obsession some have with trying to continuously churn the BP. Their problem is that Mookie, JDM, and Beni are all substantially worse than last year. Adding a bullpen arm isn’t going to change their problems with producing runs.THIS!
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Post by telson13 on Jun 19, 2019 16:16:44 GMT -5
I don't think they're "awful" by any stretch and I recognize (which I planned to include) that their run differential is better than any WC2 contender. They have an easier schedule lined up than most teams moving forward. There's a VERY good probability they can make the one-game play-in. What I question is the value of it. They aren't winning these series against great teams, Chris Sale has proven himself to fall off the cliff each of the last few seasons which means Price is your only real option, but then it screws up the rotation for a short-series, and I don't know if you can beat Houston, NY or TB. So, is it worth squeaking in and praying for the team to just get hot at the right time and somehow go on a deep playoff run and then lose the asset value that they have or do you capitalize on what they have that is nearing their expiry value and prepare for the longer term? I'm also very encouraged what I'm seeing out of Porcello lately. I don't know if I trust him to sustain throughout the season. My guess is that we'll see a Snell/Sale matchup in a potential wild card game. Maybe this year the pattern with Sale will be different. Sale has never been anywhere near as awful as he was early on. Maybe what they did will protect for later on, so that he's dominant if it came down to a winner take all game. I'd be more concerned about the Red Sox offense against Snell, who has been really tough on the Sox, but like they say, any given day.... Talentwise the Sox should be reasonably up there with the other good teams. If health is there, the Sox have a strong lineup, as do the Yankees and Astros and even the Rays have been kind of tough. The Sox have a good 1-2 punch in Sale and Price IF Sale is still Sale. Eovaldi needs to be like he was last year and Porcello is Porcello. He's going to have his clunkers and then he has those games where he rolls through lineups with ease on low pitch counts. In a way, minus the knuckle ball, he reminds me a lot of Tim Wakefield, a guy who bleeds Red Sox red, really wants to be in Boston, is a good teammate, throws a ton of innings, gets roughed up at times, puts up ERA around league average and usually has a lot of wins and losses because he figures in the decision instead of doing the 5 and fly thing - plus durability, can be relied on to pitch every 5th day. I anticipate an ERA around 4.5 for Porcello when all is said and done and he'll throw the innings. I hope he can stay beyond this year, but unless the Sox free up some more money, I don't see it. When all the talk about Pedroia's contract situation came up - like can he retire out of that money and recoup it as a lifetime consultant for the Red Sox so it's off the payroll books (he can't), I was thinking - there would be most of Porcello's money, but...probably not happening. My biggest concerns with the Sox in the post-season would be - will the pen hang onto narrow leads late? Will they hit with runners in scoring position and maximize their scoring chances? But either way I expect to see at least one playoff game, so the idea of selling off, especially when next year's team has a shot to be better, doesn't make much sense to me. I just hope the Sox can get pitching help without trading the next Ty Buttrey. I still don’t get the fascination with conceding the division to NY. Frankly, I think TB is a better team than the Yankees, or at least on par with them. NY has been good, but also lucky, in surviving their injury bug. But they’re also riding an easy-til-now schedule. And I’m not convinced all of their guys coming back from injury are suddenly going to be putting up terrific years. A lot of them have missed significant time. And looking at the Sox, even healthy star players underperform. Last night stunk, but the Sox have the 6th-best BP in baseball by fWAR, their biggest stars all struggling, and they’re getting a Eovaldi back.I DO have an uncomfortable feeling about their inability to finish opponents off, and beat good teams, but they struggled vs winning teams early last year, too. There’s a LOT of baseball left, and we certainly haven’t seen the best of this team, even remotely, yet.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 19, 2019 16:25:16 GMT -5
What point? That the bullpens were pretty much identically good last night? 3 runs in 11.1 inning for the Red Sox bullpen? Great point. Twins bullpen is great, Red Sox bullpen is terrible, gave up almost the same amount of runs in a ridiculous number of innings. Definitely a bullpen problem that you've pointed out ad nasuem for 2 years now. What's next? A demand for better 17th inning relief pitchers? You got a unexpected great performance out of Josh Taylor. You need better depth. It's the main weakness of the team really, that and that 5th starter in the rotation at the moment. I can't wait to get the popcorn out and watch people freak out over a bullpen arm trade in July because the Sox are trying to win. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 Or maybe, you know, Taylor becomes another addition to the most underrated aspect of any team in MLB right now? For all the talk in the offseason, the Sox pen has a league-leading 10.5 k/9 and is tied for 6th in fWAR (2.9), VERY comfortably above the next team at 2.4. With Brewer steadily improving, Brasier apparently getting back on track, and the top-3 performing basically exactly as their peripherals/Statcast predict.
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Post by orion09 on Jun 19, 2019 16:32:05 GMT -5
My guess is that we'll see a Snell/Sale matchup in a potential wild card game. Maybe this year the pattern with Sale will be different. Sale has never been anywhere near as awful as he was early on. Maybe what they did will protect for later on, so that he's dominant if it came down to a winner take all game. I'd be more concerned about the Red Sox offense against Snell, who has been really tough on the Sox, but like they say, any given day.... Talentwise the Sox should be reasonably up there with the other good teams. If health is there, the Sox have a strong lineup, as do the Yankees and Astros and even the Rays have been kind of tough. The Sox have a good 1-2 punch in Sale and Price IF Sale is still Sale. Eovaldi needs to be like he was last year and Porcello is Porcello. He's going to have his clunkers and then he has those games where he rolls through lineups with ease on low pitch counts. In a way, minus the knuckle ball, he reminds me a lot of Tim Wakefield, a guy who bleeds Red Sox red, really wants to be in Boston, is a good teammate, throws a ton of innings, gets roughed up at times, puts up ERA around league average and usually has a lot of wins and losses because he figures in the decision instead of doing the 5 and fly thing - plus durability, can be relied on to pitch every 5th day. I anticipate an ERA around 4.5 for Porcello when all is said and done and he'll throw the innings. I hope he can stay beyond this year, but unless the Sox free up some more money, I don't see it. When all the talk about Pedroia's contract situation came up - like can he retire out of that money and recoup it as a lifetime consultant for the Red Sox so it's off the payroll books (he can't), I was thinking - there would be most of Porcello's money, but...probably not happening. My biggest concerns with the Sox in the post-season would be - will the pen hang onto narrow leads late? Will they hit with runners in scoring position and maximize their scoring chances? But either way I expect to see at least one playoff game, so the idea of selling off, especially when next year's team has a shot to be better, doesn't make much sense to me. I just hope the Sox can get pitching help without trading the next Ty Buttrey. I still don’t get the fascination with conceding the division to NY. Frankly, I think TB is a better team than the Yankees, or at least on par with them. NY has been good, but also lucky, in surviving their injury bug. But they’re also riding an easy-til-now schedule. And I’m not convinced all of their guys coming back from injury are suddenly going to be putting up terrific years. A lot of them have missed significant time. And looking at the Sox, even healthy star players underperform. Last night stunk, but the Sox have the 6th-best BP in baseball by fWAR, their biggest stars all struggling, and they’re getting a Eovaldi back. I DO have an uncomfortable feeling about their inability to finish opponents off, and beat good teams, but they struggled vs winning teams early last year, too. There’s a LOT of baseball left, and we certainly haven’t seen the best of this team, even remotely, yet.Yeah, I think redsoxfan2 would have more of an argument if this team was really rolling, firing on all cylinders, and getting beat consistently by the best teams in the league on the basis of talent. But the Sox have just been inconsistent and Beni, Mookie, and JD have been underperforming relative to last year. I do think there’s a point about the Sox’ record against bad teams, in that even when they aren’t really clicking, they’re still good enough to beat them. But IMO how far a team goes in the playoffs has a lot to do with how hot they are at the right time. I do think the Sox are good enough to land a wild card spot. The question is whether they put it together around playoff time, and that has a lot more to do with the Sox than the quality of their opponents.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 19, 2019 16:32:26 GMT -5
You got a unexpected great performance out of Josh Taylor. You need better depth. It's the main weakness of the team really, that and that 5th starter in the rotation at the moment. I can't wait to get the popcorn out and watch people freak out over a bullpen arm trade in July because the Sox are trying to win. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 Or maybe, you know, Taylor becomes another addition to the most underrated aspect of any team in MLB right now? For all the talk in the offseason, the Sox pen has a league-leading 10.5 k/9 and is tied for 6th in fWAR (2.9), VERY comfortably above the next team at 2.4. With Brewer steadily improving, Brasier apparently getting back on track, and the top-3 performing basically exactly as their peripherals/Statcast predict. I do like Taylor and Brewers' arm, but I wouldn't want to keep leaning on them. I think that was Taylor's first appearance in the big leagues without giving up a run. I'm not asking for anything drastic either, just one more big time arm that I mentioned. The bullpen should be in a really great place for sure afterwards.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 19, 2019 16:33:36 GMT -5
If the Sox trade for a reliever, THIS is the sort of guy they should be going after, because the name/team situation/recent performance/surface numbers all mean cost will be *relatively* low: blogs.fangraphs.com/underrated-reliever-quietly-pitches-himself-toward-trade-candidacy/If they can get Ken Giles on a bargain deal, have at it. But really, imo as good as they’ve been, they ought to be looking for positive regression candidates on the cheap.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 19, 2019 16:34:20 GMT -5
My guess is that we'll see a Snell/Sale matchup in a potential wild card game. Maybe this year the pattern with Sale will be different. Sale has never been anywhere near as awful as he was early on. Maybe what they did will protect for later on, so that he's dominant if it came down to a winner take all game. I'd be more concerned about the Red Sox offense against Snell, who has been really tough on the Sox, but like they say, any given day.... Talentwise the Sox should be reasonably up there with the other good teams. If health is there, the Sox have a strong lineup, as do the Yankees and Astros and even the Rays have been kind of tough. The Sox have a good 1-2 punch in Sale and Price IF Sale is still Sale. Eovaldi needs to be like he was last year and Porcello is Porcello. He's going to have his clunkers and then he has those games where he rolls through lineups with ease on low pitch counts. In a way, minus the knuckle ball, he reminds me a lot of Tim Wakefield, a guy who bleeds Red Sox red, really wants to be in Boston, is a good teammate, throws a ton of innings, gets roughed up at times, puts up ERA around league average and usually has a lot of wins and losses because he figures in the decision instead of doing the 5 and fly thing - plus durability, can be relied on to pitch every 5th day. I anticipate an ERA around 4.5 for Porcello when all is said and done and he'll throw the innings. I hope he can stay beyond this year, but unless the Sox free up some more money, I don't see it. When all the talk about Pedroia's contract situation came up - like can he retire out of that money and recoup it as a lifetime consultant for the Red Sox so it's off the payroll books (he can't), I was thinking - there would be most of Porcello's money, but...probably not happening. My biggest concerns with the Sox in the post-season would be - will the pen hang onto narrow leads late? Will they hit with runners in scoring position and maximize their scoring chances? But either way I expect to see at least one playoff game, so the idea of selling off, especially when next year's team has a shot to be better, doesn't make much sense to me. I just hope the Sox can get pitching help without trading the next Ty Buttrey. I still don’t get the fascination with conceding the division to NY. Frankly, I think TB is a better team than the Yankees, or at least on par with them. NY has been good, but also lucky, in surviving their injury bug. But they’re also riding an easy-til-now schedule. And I’m not convinced all of their guys coming back from injury are suddenly going to be putting up terrific years. A lot of them have missed significant time. And looking at the Sox, even healthy star players underperform. Last night stunk, but the Sox have the 6th-best BP in baseball by fWAR, their biggest stars all struggling, and they’re getting a Eovaldi back.I DO have an uncomfortable feeling about their inability to finish opponents off, and beat good teams, but they struggled vs winning teams early last year, too. There’s a LOT of baseball left, and we certainly haven’t seen the best of this team, even remotely, yet. The Sox are 6.5 games behind a Yankee team that has been injury riddled. Perhaps Judge doesn't come back as hoped for, but the other side of the coin is that some of these Yankees coming back from injury should be pretty well rested for October. It's kind of hard to imagine that a team that had that many injuries could play .600 plus ball in those circumstances, are suddenly going to be markedly worse with their injured players (some impact like Judge and Stanton) coming back and possibly more reinforcements on the way - I expect the Yankees will pick up a good starter now that Frazier can be dealt thanks to their Encarnacion deal, which should help out their biggest question area - the rotation. Their offense is scary good and their bullpen is settled and strong and has Betances on the way back at some point. I don't agree that Tampa is better than NY.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 19, 2019 16:43:33 GMT -5
www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 Or maybe, you know, Taylor becomes another addition to the most underrated aspect of any team in MLB right now? For all the talk in the offseason, the Sox pen has a league-leading 10.5 k/9 and is tied for 6th in fWAR (2.9), VERY comfortably above the next team at 2.4. With Brewer steadily improving, Brasier apparently getting back on track, and the top-3 performing basically exactly as their peripherals/Statcast predict. I do like Taylor and Brewers" arm, but I wouldn't want to keep leaning on them. I think that was Taylor's first appearance in the big leagues without giving up a run. I'm not asking for anything drastic either, just one more big time arm that I mentioned. The bullpen should be in a really great place for sure afterwards. I bet over the last year, you're a little surprised at Brasier, Walden, and Workman (who you advocated DFA'ing late last season) being so important. You're obsessed with names and just ignore the non-names that have greatly contributed that they got for absolutely nothing. We need MORE of this, not more Thornburg and Carson Smith trades.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 19, 2019 16:45:06 GMT -5
If the Sox trade for a reliever, THIS is the sort of guy they should be going after, because the name/team situation/recent performance/surface numbers all mean cost will be *relatively* low: blogs.fangraphs.com/underrated-reliever-quietly-pitches-himself-toward-trade-candidacy/If they can get Ken Giles on a bargain deal, have at it. But really, imo as good as they’ve been, they ought to be looking for positive regression candidates on the cheap. I know there are arguments against it, but I'd like to see the Sox get a reliable closer to replace Kimbrel's role and use Barnes as their fireman (which they're pretty much doing) or get a guy comparable to Barnes and have Barnes close. I don't like the uncertainty of not knowing who's going to close from night to night. I get that Kimbrel last October was a poster child for how "closers" can be overrated, but we've seen where a good one has been a difference maker (and Barnes could make a good closer sooner than later). I like Feltman, Hernandez, and Houck, who I believe will comprise the Sox bullpen in a couple of years, and hate the thought of dealing them (and I wouldn't deal Chavis, Dalbec, Duran, or even a DSL kid like Feliz or Gonzalez) for a reliever, so it makes it tough. I could see Dombrowski dealing one of the young relievers if he thinks he's getting an impact reliever though. Giles is probably the guy with the best stuff, but he's not always been reliable, to put it mildly. I'm not a fan of Greene of Detroit. Perhaps your Hernandez idea can work. I just like the idea of 1A and 1B relievers (Barnes and ?) and fill in with the rest of what they got between Workman, Walden, Brasier, Hembree, and Shawaryn. Now that I think more about it - Cora will probably use his starters as 1B with Barnes as 1A in the closing role, so I guess the Sox can be choosy about any potential deals that come their way. I'll always wonder who Dombrowski would have parted with to obtain Herrera last July.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 19, 2019 16:45:37 GMT -5
The Red Sox bullpen is terrible. This game wasn't an example of that. I’m convinced it’s the names, not the performance, that has people thinking they’re bad. But really, they’re pretty good. They’re tied for 6th in fWAR in MLB. And they lead all of baseball in K/9. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 They’ve had some issues, for certain. They’ve had a few too many innings because of the poor first few weeks the starters had, and they’re not particularly deep in terms of real quality. But looking at it objectively, they’ve been one of the best bullpens in baseball. And on top of that, the results have been pretty consistent with Statcast, at least for the top-4 (Barnes, Workman, Walden, Brasier). Brasier and Brewer have been better lately; they’re paring out the guys who were hurting them. Would an excellent reliever help? Sure. But I definitely wouldn’t remotely call it a “need.” It’s a luxury. Personally, I’m all for an acquisition, *provided the cost is very reasonable*, in both $ to stay under the lux tax top tier, and in talent going back. But I don’t even remotely get the screams for another uber-arm. I’d prefer they continue to work with Taylor and Brewer, and maybe...*maybe* make a trade at the deadline. I just don’t get the obsession some have with trying to continuously churn the BP. Their problem is that Mookie, JDM, and Beni are all substantially worse than last year. Adding a bullpen arm isn’t going to change their problems with producing runs. To be fair, I've been on Benny and his power disappearance since the second half of last year. It's just, gone. Not to say he won't develop or anything, but I'm concerned about it. Mookie is fine. He's not Mike Trout great, but he's still a ++ player even in his slump. I feel as though JD is dealing with something as of late, which I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse. I don't understand fWAR, but that's a me problem. On the surface, I'd say you were crazy, but I do see that they're actually 5th in MLB in bullpen ERA. They're 2nd in strikeouts, but are also 7th in most walks allowed. Still, they're the 6th best in BAA. They're currently 6th in the majors for most innings thrown. I guess the impression comes from the fact that they're 26th in SV% (53.33% converting) with no trusted names back there. When you need the bullpen to go 4, 3 seem to do fine and one of them will give up the go-ahead run. At least, that's how it feels on the surface. They're 13th in HRA which is pretty good for a strike throwing pen. Boston is 10th in OPSA. I'm not someone who believes in having a closer, though the numbers jump out. Just need a trusted dependable arm. The numbers aren't terrible and are in-line with a team capable of winning as long as the other parts are performing better. 6th, 10th, 11th, 5th are decent places to be for a playoff contender. They're 8th in runs allowed.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 19, 2019 16:49:10 GMT -5
I do like Taylor and Brewers" arm, but I wouldn't want to keep leaning on them. I think that was Taylor's first appearance in the big leagues without giving up a run. I'm not asking for anything drastic either, just one more big time arm that I mentioned. The bullpen should be in a really great place for sure afterwards. I bet over the last year, you're a little surprised at Brasier, Walden, and Workman (who you advocated DFA'ing late last season) being so important. You're obsessed with names and just ignore the non-names that have greatly contributed that they got for absolutely nothing. We need MORE of this, not more Thornburg and Carson Smith trades. You advocated for Walden getting removed from the 40 man roster last year. I'm obsessed with guys who misses bats. Half the dudes I listed aren't even huge freaking names, so I have no clue what you're talking about. Not a lot of people have heard of Will Smith and Felipe Vazquez.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 19, 2019 16:54:41 GMT -5
I still don’t get the fascination with conceding the division to NY. Frankly, I think TB is a better team than the Yankees, or at least on par with them. NY has been good, but also lucky, in surviving their injury bug. But they’re also riding an easy-til-now schedule. And I’m not convinced all of their guys coming back from injury are suddenly going to be putting up terrific years. A lot of them have missed significant time. And looking at the Sox, even healthy star players underperform. Last night stunk, but the Sox have the 6th-best BP in baseball by fWAR, their biggest stars all struggling, and they’re getting a Eovaldi back. I DO have an uncomfortable feeling about their inability to finish opponents off, and beat good teams, but they struggled vs winning teams early last year, too. There’s a LOT of baseball left, and we certainly haven’t seen the best of this team, even remotely, yet.Yeah, I think redsoxfan2 would have more of an argument if this team was really rolling, firing on all cylinders, and getting beat consistently by the best teams in the league on the basis of talent. But the Sox have just been inconsistent and Beni, Mookie, and JD have been underperforming relative to last year. I do think there’s a point about the Sox’ record against bad teams, in that even when they aren’t really clicking, they’re still good enough to beat them. But IMO how far a team goes in the playoffs has a lot to do with how hot they are at the right time. I do think the Sox are good enough to land a wild card spot. The question is whether they put it together around playoff time, and that has a lot more to do with the Sox than the quality of their opponents. I mean, that's fair, but teams have over and under performers every year. I wouldn't bank on Mookie having a .900+ OPS, let alone a 1.000 every season. JD was signed for less than expected due to medical concerns. I don't think those have completely vanished. Where you've lost performance in those guys you've gained in Xander, Devers and Chavis (over the corpses they had last year).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 19, 2019 17:07:43 GMT -5
Yankees just chewed up and spit out the Rays the past 3 days. They swept them and took their best player in Blake Snell and destroyed him to the tune of 6 runs and one out today.
The competition is fierce this season. It'll be fun and stressful ride.
Add- as nice of a run the Sox have been on, they're still 8 losses behind in the loss column to the Yankees.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 19, 2019 17:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I think redsoxfan2 would have more of an argument if this team was really rolling, firing on all cylinders, and getting beat consistently by the best teams in the league on the basis of talent. But the Sox have just been inconsistent and Beni, Mookie, and JD have been underperforming relative to last year. I do think there’s a point about the Sox’ record against bad teams, in that even when they aren’t really clicking, they’re still good enough to beat them. But IMO how far a team goes in the playoffs has a lot to do with how hot they are at the right time. I do think the Sox are good enough to land a wild card spot. The question is whether they put it together around playoff time, and that has a lot more to do with the Sox than the quality of their opponents. I mean, that's fair, but teams have over and under performers every year. I wouldn't bank on Mookie having a .900+ OPS, let alone a 1.000 every season. JD was signed for less than expected due to medical concerns. I don't think those have completely vanished. Where you've lost performance in those guys you've gained in Xander, Devers and Chavis (over the corpses they had last year). Whose corpse? I'm not sure where your coming from and I mean that. Do you mean Bogaerts? He put up close to 4 wins last year and he may very well double that this season. Also, you left out Vazquez who brought a bat with him this year. Every year is indeed different. It's no secret that their plan was to try and bring the starters along slowly. That appears to have been necessary given how bad some of those early performances were. I don't know which team you've been watching, but that is what put them in the hole they've been digging themselves out of. The bullpen actually kept them in some of those games. Last night was last night. After 13 innings what choice did they have but to stick with Velazquez for four and then to bring in Johnson? They'd burned through just about everyone else. No surprise that those guys mirrored past performances, and they've both been rehabing. Those were not the first options, but the last. The navel gazing on a game-by-game basis is just tiresome given that they might start another winning streak today.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 19, 2019 17:48:07 GMT -5
I mean, that's fair, but teams have over and under performers every year. I wouldn't bank on Mookie having a .900+ OPS, let alone a 1.000 every season. JD was signed for less than expected due to medical concerns. I don't think those have completely vanished. Where you've lost performance in those guys you've gained in Xander, Devers and Chavis (over the corpses they had last year). Whose corpse? I'm not sure where your coming from and I mean that. Do you mean Bogaerts? He put up close to 4 wins last year and he may very well double that this season. Also, you left out Vazquez who brought a bat with him this year. Every year is indeed different. It's no secret that their plan was to try and bring the starters along slowly. That appears to have been necessary given how bad some of those early performances were. I don't know which team you've been watching, but that is what put them in the hole they've been digging themselves out of. The bullpen actually kept them in some of those games. Last night was last night. After 13 innings what choice did they have but to stick with Velazquez for four and then to bring in Johnson? They'd burned through just about everyone else. No surprise that those guys mirrored past performances, and they've both been rehabing. Those were not the first options, but the last. The navel gazing on a game-by-game basis is just tiresome given that they might start another winning streak today. I meant corpse as in the 2B position and Chavis over Kinsler, Holt, and Nunez. We'll see if that approach has helped or hurt them. They still haven't won a series against a winning team since May 1st. That's the team I keep seeing. The early Red Sox weren't even beating the bad teams, so great, improvement. We will need to see if the early staters struggle was worth it. We'll need to see if Sale holds up into October and I would be lying if I wasn't worried about Price being pulled after cruising and throwing only 73 pitches a game after only throwing 1.1 IP. Agreed on Vazquez. He's been a pleasant surprise.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 19, 2019 18:24:23 GMT -5
To think - if we could have only brought in that run on third with none out...or held one of the leads...this thread would be only half or so of the number of pages !
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 19, 2019 18:47:59 GMT -5
radsox.....I believe in people posting what they want...but it does appear that you have an axe to grind with this team. It is hard to square on a red sox fan website. It is just easy to think you just want to cause a ruckus. I don't think so personally, but give a dog a bone every now and then.
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Post by bluechip on Jun 19, 2019 19:12:09 GMT -5
www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31 Or maybe, you know, Taylor becomes another addition to the most underrated aspect of any team in MLB right now? For all the talk in the offseason, the Sox pen has a league-leading 10.5 k/9 and is tied for 6th in fWAR (2.9), VERY comfortably above the next team at 2.4. With Brewer steadily improving, Brasier apparently getting back on track, and the top-3 performing basically exactly as their peripherals/Statcast predict. I do like Taylor and Brewers' arm, but I wouldn't want to keep leaning on them. I think that was Taylor's first appearance in the big leagues without giving up a run. I'm not asking for anything drastic either, just one more big time arm that I mentioned. The bullpen should be in a really great place for sure afterwards. Josh Taylor has had some bad BABIP luck though. Like last night he gave up a single on a 76 mph ground ball to short. No walks in the majors and he continues to miss bats at the MLB level like he did in the minors.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 19, 2019 19:15:56 GMT -5
This offense looks familiar 😟
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 19, 2019 19:18:19 GMT -5
For the record, if I'm silent tonight it's because I'm at a "comedy" show.
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cutz
Veteran
Posts: 2,321
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Post by cutz on Jun 19, 2019 19:21:36 GMT -5
JBJ!! Whata throw!!
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 19, 2019 19:22:04 GMT -5
Nice job by the Twins of turning something into nothing!
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