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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 5, 2019 7:59:36 GMT -5
Did anyone make attempts at comparing the talents of Brown and Sanu? Despite his behavior, I don't think it takes much knowledge to understand why Brown and Sanu might have performed differently (though, again, I'll note that the latter had a pretty big day in just his 2nd game before being hampered by injuries since part way through his 3rd). Brown is a freak on the field and Sanu is a good player, that is about the extent of my comparing talent. All I care about is how they gel moving forward. What are the chances Bill lets Bailey kick pats and Fg's? He was pretty good in college, hit 75% of Fg's with a few over 50. I know it is a bit of a gamble but how much more so than what is out there.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 5, 2019 8:10:41 GMT -5
That was not directed to you, Voice. I was Addressing the comment about mis-season not being an issue bc Brown did well.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 5, 2019 14:11:28 GMT -5
I guess they should just do away with training camp if it doesn't matter, players would love that. That's exactly what the owners are trying to do actually and expand the season.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 5, 2019 18:49:06 GMT -5
I guess they should just do away with training camp if it doesn't matter, players would love that. That's exactly what the owners are trying to do actually and expand the season. Tex, I know I was just chiming in, hence my sarcasm. Dirtywater are you really trying to justify the thought that practice doesn't matter? If so I can only suffice to say you never played the game or any for that matter.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 5, 2019 19:02:11 GMT -5
That's exactly what the owners are trying to do actually and expand the season. Tex, I know I was just chiming in, hence my sarcasm. Dirtywater are you really trying to justify the thought that practice doesn't matter? If so I can only suffice to say you never played the game or any for that matter. It certainly helps, and it does make players a lot better. The over exaggeration of the importance of it is where I had a problem with it. It literally took all of 2 seconds for Brown to get on the same page with Brady. He couldn't be a better example of what I was talking about. Talent plays in the highest level of sports.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 5, 2019 20:29:23 GMT -5
Tex, I know I was just chiming in, hence my sarcasm. Dirtywater are you really trying to justify the thought that practice doesn't matter? If so I can only suffice to say you never played the game or any for that matter. It certainly helps, and it does make players a lot better. The over exaggeration of the importance of it is where I had a problem with it. It literally took all of 2 seconds for Brown to get on the same page with Brady. He couldn't be a better example of what I was talking about. Talent plays in the highest level of sports. Well if every receiver was like Brown, you'd have a point. But it took Edlemen 5 years and every other good or worse receiver years.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 5, 2019 21:14:18 GMT -5
It certainly helps, and it does make players a lot better. The over exaggeration of the importance of it is where I had a problem with it. It literally took all of 2 seconds for Brown to get on the same page with Brady. He couldn't be a better example of what I was talking about. Talent plays in the highest level of sports. Well if every receiver was like Brown, you'd have a point. But it took Edlemen 5 years and every other good or worse receiver years. Welker and Moss were studs There are more examples of this. Add- Edelman was a 7th round draft pick that was behind Welker in the depth chart and had to earn his time as a Patriot. He's a bad example if you want to point to something to fit the narrative.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 5, 2019 21:38:16 GMT -5
Well if every receiver was like Brown, you'd have a point. But it took Edlemen 5 years and every other good or worse receiver years. Welker and Moss were studs There are more examples of this. Add- Edelman was a 7th round draft pick that was behind Welker in the depth chart and had to earn his time as a Patriot. He's a bad example if you want to point to something to fit the narrative. Well come up with a single example of a non-stud that is an instant success on a new team with zero reps or stfu. My point has been that it takes time to develop chemistry unless a receiver has an elite ability especially if he has one particular unbeatable skill. Either agree with me or state why you don't. Pointing out Brown or Welker or Moss isn't disagreeing with me.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 5, 2019 21:54:13 GMT -5
Welker and Moss were studs There are more examples of this. Add- Edelman was a 7th round draft pick that was behind Welker in the depth chart and had to earn his time as a Patriot. He's a bad example if you want to point to something to fit the narrative. Well come up with a single example of a non-stud that is an instant success on a new team with zero reps or stfu. My point has been that it takes time to develop chemistry unless a receiver has an elite ability especially if he has one particular unbeatable skill. Either agree with me or state why you don't. Pointing out Brown or Welker or Moss isn't disagreeing with me. I think your whole point is wildly overrated, but good talk. Pointing out terrible examples work, but pointing out good examples is not disagreeing. Whatever dude. Emmanuel Sanders was probably a better fit and could have made it work with Brady from day 1. Didn't happen. The whole reason why Welker was a stud was because of Brady. There aren't many examples of this because Brady has turned crap into Jello with wide receivers in the past and BB had usually sticked with what he has regardless.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 5, 2019 22:23:51 GMT -5
Yep, and you're just so much smarter than Brady and Belichick. If only we were so lucky for you to be running the team instead.
I mean duh. Adding an elite receiver is a great plan. But someone like Amari Cooper or Brandin Cooks or less who were both traded for a 1st round pick is NOT an instant success.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Dec 6, 2019 9:16:40 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Dec 6, 2019 11:02:45 GMT -5
Highlighting how one of the best was able to accomplish something is NEVER a good example (outside of an example of what the BEST might be able to do).
That goes for ANY discussion. Not just sports.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 11:14:57 GMT -5
Guess who is a FA in 2021?
Jacoby Brissett
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 11:15:53 GMT -5
Highlighting how one of the best was able to accomplish something is NEVER a good example (outside of an example of what the BEST might be able to do). That goes for ANY discussion. Not just sports. Very true
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2019 12:57:44 GMT -5
Brown and Brady didn't have instant chemistry, Brown is just that good and gets open. If you think 8 targets 4 receptions for 58 yards was Brown and Brady clicking, you're dead wrong. It would have been epic when they finally clicked. Think 2007.
Guys like Gronk, Welker, Moss, etc all had a full off-season to form chemistry. That is months and months.
Saying Edelman needed five years is kinda crazy. He was a QB converting to WR and was rather good as a rookie. He just played behind Welker and they didn't like playing them together.
Welker wasn't just a stud because of Brady. He was a great WR. The guy litterally redefined the Slot position in football. He's a HOF player in my book. It's the reason they traded for him he was so good on a bad team.
If you aren't an elite WR that can get open anytime it takes time for Brady to trust you. It's why I wanted Sanders over Sanu. Sanders can get open easier and is more of a threat.
Overall the group of WR isn't bad by any means, Brady just needs to trust Sanu, Meyers, and Harry. Brady likely hates that, but he has no choice. That is a ton of size and if he trusts them CBs are going to have a hard time. Those are the guys you throw some 50-50 balls to. Keep Edelman and Sanu running slit routes and unleash Meyers and Harry on the outside. I'd rather do that, then throw deep balls to Dorsett or Edelman, they are two small they need to be open and a perfectly thrown ball. Meyers and Harry have a much bigger catch radius.
Dorsett really needs to become like the 5th WR. They play him to add speed and act like a deep threat but he doesn't scare anyone. Also let's be Frank Brady has never been the best at deep throws and small guys don't work. We saw that time and time again with Welker. It's time to unleash the rookies. Meyers is one of the most polished rookie WRs we've ever had and Harry has more physical ability than any rookie WR we might have ever had in the Brady era.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 13:34:38 GMT -5
Umass I completely agree with everything you wrote, which is rare. lol
When it comes to Edelman people seem to forget, but I don't I was impressed from game 1, he looked great his rookie year and I always wondered why he got buried. Of course it was because he was behind WW. I always looked back on how BB didn't think that highly of him to the extent that he let him go out in FA to get an idea to his value. At the time I thought it was a mistake and wondered how BB didn't realize what he had, imagine if we had lost him. He came back and in his 1st year getting a chance to play FT he went 105/1056, it was his 5th season.
His rookie year after WW went down with an injury in week 2 he led the team in receiving in his 1st game and looked great especially with YAC. He actually led all rookies in receiving when he broke his arm and was out, 5 games to start his career he had 21 receptions. Later in the season WW tore his knee up and once again Edelman came in and led the team in receiving. He had 10 catches the last game of the yr and caught 2 td passes in the playoff loss to the Ravens. All considered he was very good his rookie yr. So it might seem like it took him a while but it didn't, he was a stud whenever he got a chance to play.
It was probably the only time I have ever really questioned BB and ended up being right.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2019 14:25:17 GMT -5
I can’t process anything after reading UMASS write Brady was never a great deep ball thrower. My world is upside down.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 16:48:42 GMT -5
I can’t process anything after reading UMASS write Brady was never a great deep ball thrower. My world is upside down. LOL Well I think if you watched every throw Tom Brady has ever made you could come away thinking that, he has missed a lot of long ones over 19 years. If you subtract the Moss years it is worse. But the statistics show he is better than average. Thing is he is so good at the short to intermediate throws that the long ones just aren't as efficient and it screws up the eyeball test. Their have also been times where he didn't have great chemistry with a WR, we all know that story. They could have won a SB against the Giants if it wasn't for a badly under thrown ball to Gronk deep in the endzone, and I mean 10+ yards short as Gronk waited for it. Always wondered why nobody talks about that, but it was the Welker drop game so that is what they remember. If he had a weakness throwing the ball I would say it is the long one but he isn't actually weak at it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2019 17:18:09 GMT -5
I don't think Brady has every been the best at deep throws. He doesn't have a rocket and has to put everything into it and thus doesn't have great accuracy. He looked great with the best deep WR to ever play the game catching the passes. Moss was so good, you just needed to get it close and he would come down with it. Which is why I want bigger WRs on the outside
Brady has never been close to Patrick Mahomes in throwing deep balls for example. Yeah he's been better than most QBs, he just doesn't have the huge rocket of an arm some QBs have. Mahomes makes throws Brady can only dream about.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2019 18:24:13 GMT -5
You don't even have to be a great deep ball thrower if you have someone like Moss. He could adjust to anything, catch up to anything and beat anyone on contested balls.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 19:50:09 GMT -5
There is video of Lamar Jackson throwing endzone to endzone in high school, presumably as it wasn't that clear. His coach was narrating and said it was because he was trying to get him to move off QB, changed his mind.
I was being respectful towards Tom before out of respect, lol, yeah I have seen the bad throws. But statistically he is not bad, no Mahomes but good.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 6, 2019 21:56:27 GMT -5
AB is really trying to get back, very contrite but do you buy it?
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 7, 2019 0:38:26 GMT -5
AB is really trying to get back, very contrite but do you buy it? The Pats need him at this point and they should just to make Tom happy. It'll go a long way to keep him here past this season with all the rumors of Tom leaving lately.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 7, 2019 7:41:33 GMT -5
I was just looking at FA TE's the Pats could target this offseason and the guy I thought could be a good fit and be available was Jack Doyle. Indy had 2 good ones entering FA, the other being Ebron, so I figured 1 could be available. Well they just extended Doyle so maybe it will be Ebron coming off injury.
Ebron would be a good addition and he has some local roots, Pats really need to do something about TE for next yr.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 8, 2019 11:17:46 GMT -5
First let me say I think the Pats will win today and it is an important game. What scares me is that they beat them twice last year and they are a very good team, beating a very good team 3 times in a row isn't easy. Are the Patriots that much better, I hope so.
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