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2019-20 Boston Celtics Season
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 16, 2019 12:21:42 GMT -5
Do you think Horford was a beast in 2017? I only ask because Duncan had a .204 win share per game that year, Horford was .192. I said Duncan was a beast during that playoff run when they needed him to be. There’s a difference. He was still a guy they could give the ball to in a big spot when they needed a bucket and he delivered time and again. Those are playoff numbers. I don't see your big difference, he didn't put up huge point totals. A guy like Horford made big baskets when we needed them also. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2019 12:30:38 GMT -5
I don’t know man, if a top 20 player of all time isn’t a superstar to you then I’m not sure what to say. Your bar is insane. Also, who cares what his regular season was that year (He did finish 6th in MVP tho) and was hurt during the year but it’s all irrelevant. The point is when it matter he was able to be the best version of himself which is that of a superstar. His playoffs stats were better than his regular season stats and we are talking about a stats ability to carry a team thru the playoffs. Dirk did / plain and simple. Do you remember our debate on Horford and the HOF, you thought win shares were crazy because he was on Pace to be top 70 to top 80ish all time? Win shares is a very useful stat, but I don't think Dirk was equal to Duncan or better than KG and I certainly don't think he was over 25% better than Bird. Heck I love Pierce, to this day my favorite player all time to watch, but I don't think he's top 20 all-time like he's ranked in win shares either. A quick look at the lists, I don't rank Dirk top 20. Heck I think Pierce was a better two way player than Dirk was and a big difference in the win shares is Dirk playing an extra 6,000 minutes in his career. He had a very long and very healthy career. I wouldn't rate Chris Webber in front of Dirk all-time, but at his peak I think he was a better more impactful two way player. He just didn't have a very long and healthy career. You wanna say he's a top 20 scorer in NBA history I can buy that 100%, I don't think he was one of the top 20 most impactful players. Off the top of my head I think Duncan, KG, Malone, Barkley and even current day Davis were more impactful players overall. It’s not me it’s several different outlets. You want to quibble and go with top 30? It’s irrelevant - you’re missing the entire point but also proving the point all at once. The entire conversation was about having a top player that can score and carry the team when things get tough in the playoffs due to good competition and game plans. Dirk was one of the best in NBA history at that and he played like it in those playoffs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 16, 2019 12:31:06 GMT -5
Great win. I mean, it's a bad win because it's a tight game against the worst team in the league lol but the Warriors gave it a legit go and played with crazy intensity and even got very lucky with some balls going their way. The Celtics had a terrible body language all night, guys were way visibly off and yet they tough it out. They lose this game if this was last season's team. Yesterday's game was a perfect example of sharing the workload on offense. Tatum was big in the first half, Brown took over the third and Walker took over the 4th. Then add that huge Tatum dunk and mid range shot at the end of the game. Team ball allows them to not go through those long stretches without scoring that we have seen before from Stevens teams. Very fun to watch. The Warriors might not have a ton of great players, but they are playing a ton of hungry rookies and they played very hard all game long. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 16, 2019 12:41:23 GMT -5
Do you remember our debate on Horford and the HOF, you thought win shares were crazy because he was on Pace to be top 70 to top 80ish all time? Win shares is a very useful stat, but I don't think Dirk was equal to Duncan or better than KG and I certainly don't think he was over 25% better than Bird. Heck I love Pierce, to this day my favorite player all time to watch, but I don't think he's top 20 all-time like he's ranked in win shares either. A quick look at the lists, I don't rank Dirk top 20. Heck I think Pierce was a better two way player than Dirk was and a big difference in the win shares is Dirk playing an extra 6,000 minutes in his career. He had a very long and very healthy career. I wouldn't rate Chris Webber in front of Dirk all-time, but at his peak I think he was a better more impactful two way player. He just didn't have a very long and healthy career. You wanna say he's a top 20 scorer in NBA history I can buy that 100%, I don't think he was one of the top 20 most impactful players. Off the top of my head I think Duncan, KG, Malone, Barkley and even current day Davis were more impactful players overall. It’s not me it’s several different outlets. You want to quibble and go with top 30? It’s irrelevant - you’re missing the entire point but also proving the point all at once. The entire conversation was about having a top player that can score and carry the team when things get tough in the playoffs due to good competition and game plans. Dirk was one of the best in NBA history at that and he played like it in those playoffs. In modern day Basketball there are lots of players that can score at a high level. Heck peak Thomas was a great scorer, even in the playoffs. The point was they beat a more talented team because they played better team ball. Dirk was a very good teammate and wasn't a huge diva like a lot of other players. Example he was nothing like Irving. Dirk wasn't so good that they could play like Irving and still win. Yet we've seen LeBron do that many times. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 16, 2019 12:49:37 GMT -5
5. Did Robert Williams get hurt again or was it just a minutes restriction? His ankle was sore according to Stevens. So many injuries on the frontcourt. It's a shame too because Williams looked very good in limited minutes, I definitely see what umass sees in him. The potential is crazy for a guy we got so late in the round. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 16, 2019 13:16:44 GMT -5
One thing to remember about the strength of this team is it goes beyond perusing for superstar numbers. Brown and Tatum are excellent defenders, Smart is elite, and with the exception of Kemba and Kanter, every rotational player on this team is a good defender. Even Kemba is an upgrade over IT or sulking Kyrie. I’m starting to think about whether there is a ceiling on Brown. The way he has improved his game is reminiscent of Kawhi and Pascal Siakim. His focus and work ethic should be applauded. When he came into the league he had an iffy handle, a limited three point shot, and narrow court vision. Tatum on the other hand makes me a little bit nervous. He’s a total one foot jumper, which means he needs a running start to finish strong at the rim. Good finishers can typically finish off two feet or either foot (See Kyrie). Great finishers can absorb contact off one foot and still finish easily (See James Harden). If Tatum continues to work on his technique, I think he is gifted enough to become a skilled one or two foot finisher at the rim. I’m not sure he has the base, however, to become a Harden or Kawhi type finisher at the rim who draws contact and earns free throws. Jaylen Brown on the other hand, does have this potential The ceiling on Brown is starting to look like one of the best two way players in the game. We keep seeing things like that fade away mid range jumper that he never had before. He just keeps getting better. The big issue with Tatum is he wanted to tailor his game after Kobe, but he's not that type of athlete. He needs to tailor his game after a guy like Pierce or heck even Doncic. Add some moves, learn to side step defenders, learn how to draw fouls or take a three foot pull up over going fully to the basket every time. He does the same thing everytime he drives and defenders know this by now. Long-term I don't really worry he's young and last year was like a lost year given how the team was a mess. Yet set up some practice sessions with Pierce! |
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Post by dirtywater43 on Nov 16, 2019 13:43:14 GMT -5
It’s not me it’s several different outlets. You want to quibble and go with top 30? It’s irrelevant - you’re missing the entire point but also proving the point all at once. The entire conversation was about having a top player that can score and carry the team when things get tough in the playoffs due to good competition and game plans. Dirk was one of the best in NBA history at that and he played like it in those playoffs. The point was they beat a more talented team because they played better team ball. Dirk was a very good teammate and wasn't a huge diva like a lot of other players. Example he was nothing like Irving. Dirk wasn't so good that they could play like Irving and still win. Yet we've seen LeBron do that many times. Last Post. That isn't the point. The point is Dirk had the talent being a HOF player and top 30 talent all time to beat a team like the Heat. Superstar. If the Mavs didn't have Dirk and was playing team ball, they don't make it past the first round. Danny Ainge knew that the talent trumps all when putting the big 3 together. Team ball mattered so much that they ripped of, what, 20 wins in a row or something like that after not playing together in their careers. This is how I would rate the importance of talent versus team ball- Talent : : : : : : Team playing well together In conclusion, the great teams always figure a way to play well together if they have the elite talent. |
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Post by philarhody on Nov 16, 2019 15:31:02 GMT -5
One thing to remember about the strength of this team is it goes beyond perusing for superstar numbers. Brown and Tatum are excellent defenders, Smart is elite, and with the exception of Kemba and Kanter, every rotational player on this team is a good defender. Even Kemba is an upgrade over IT or sulking Kyrie. I’m starting to think about whether there is a ceiling on Brown. The way he has improved his game is reminiscent of Kawhi and Pascal Siakim. His focus and work ethic should be applauded. When he came into the league he had an iffy handle, a limited three point shot, and narrow court vision. Tatum on the other hand makes me a little bit nervous. He’s a total one foot jumper, which means he needs a running start to finish strong at the rim. Good finishers can typically finish off two feet or either foot (See Kyrie). Great finishers can absorb contact off one foot and still finish easily (See James Harden). If Tatum continues to work on his technique, I think he is gifted enough to become a skilled one or two foot finisher at the rim. I’m not sure he has the base, however, to become a Harden or Kawhi type finisher at the rim who draws contact and earns free throws. Jaylen Brown on the other hand, does have this potential The ceiling on Brown is starting to look like one of the best two way players in the game. We keep seeing things like that fade away mid range jumper that he never had before. He just keeps getting better. The big issue with Tatum is he wanted to tailor his game after Kobe, but he's not that type of athlete. He needs to tailor his game after a guy like Pierce or heck even Doncic. Add some moves, learn to side step defenders, learn how to draw fouls or take a three foot pull up over going fully to the basket every time. He does the same thing everytime he drives and defenders know this by now. Long-term I don't really worry he's young and last year was like a lost year given how the team was a mess. Yet set up some practice sessions with Pierce! I agree. Kobe was an elite athlete. Tatum would do well to model his game after Pierce or even Durant. Durant was never a great athlete but became an all time great scorer by becoming an elite ball handler/shooter. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2019 16:17:46 GMT -5
I don’t disagree with the player comps but Tatum is getting great looks he’s just rushed on the finish so I feel like he’s just fine outside of the finish. Don’t get me wrong he will add more to his game as he gets older but he’s getting to where he wants right now.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2019 7:23:46 GMT -5
Kemba on Marcus:
“Smart, he was big-time in the huddles (Friday night), leading us to this win. He was amazing. He always amazes me with some of the things he does. That dude is special.”
Is it time to re-evaluate the pick? Is he still a “disappointing 6th overall pick?”
Also, is it fair to wonder if he’s the most indispensable player on the roster? Theoretically, it should be Kemba and it probably is, but this is a small team and it’s hard to pull that off without Marcus. He basically doesn’t have a position anymore. He guards 1-4 and some 5s. He allows them to play their 3 “point” guard lineups.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 17, 2019 7:57:06 GMT -5
I hope terrible things happen to these officials. But it’s pathetic how Brad just let’s let roll over his team and does nothing about it. If you were in charge their wouldn't be any refs, they would all be dead. We would only have officials left who get every call right. Is that so much to ask for? |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 17, 2019 9:32:00 GMT -5
If you were in charge their wouldn't be any refs, they would all be dead. We would only have officials left who get every call right. Is that so much to ask for? Not at all....LOL.... that being said I think basketball is the hardest to get all the calls right. I also think the whole mentality of the stars get all the calls, unproven young guys get none and can't even play tough D without being whistled until they get a reputation for it. Then their are the makeup calls as the refs realize they got it wrong. Now this replay thing seems like it isn't working. Yes it can be very frustrating watching a game that feels like all the calls are going against you, I often feel like throwing something at the TV. So I get it when you post those reactions to bad calls and what seem like lopsided officiating. Pretty much agree but it is what it is what can be done about human error in basketball? Replay makes more sense in football as we can all see the replays and the game is stopped after every play, it would destroy flow in the NBA. Heck it ruins the flow in the NFL. Beginning to wonder whether or not Tatums constant griping is working against him as he never gets a call, he just needs to focus on getting the bucket and forget about drawing fouls. Also Stevens, who I think very highly of, might need to have his players backs a little more as Smart stated after the game with I think it was Washington when he was having some issues. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 17, 2019 10:23:10 GMT -5
Agree with everything you said. And I actually think NBA refs are better than the refs/umpires in all pro sports (it’s either them or NHL officials, though admittedly I don’t watch enough hockey to have an informed opinion there). But it’s always driven me up a wall that they have two different sets of rules for NBA stars and then everyone else.
I think the NBA has screwed up replay less than other sports, but I’ve never understood the rules around certain things being reviewable when other things aren’t. The best example is when a player gets fouled and loses the ball out of bounds as a result. If the goal of replay is to get the call right, then every aspect of that play should be reviewable.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 11:10:14 GMT -5
The point was they beat a more talented team because they played better team ball. Dirk was a very good teammate and wasn't a huge diva like a lot of other players. Example he was nothing like Irving. Dirk wasn't so good that they could play like Irving and still win. Yet we've seen LeBron do that many times. Last Post. That isn't the point. The point is Dirk had the talent being a HOF player and top 30 talent all time to beat a team like the Heat. Superstar. If the Mavs didn't have Dirk and was playing team ball, they don't make it past the first round. Danny Ainge knew that the talent trumps all when putting the big 3 together. Team ball mattered so much that they ripped of, what, 20 wins in a row or something like that after not playing together in their careers. This is how I would rate the importance of talent versus team ball- Talent : : : : : : Team playing well together In conclusion, the great teams always figure a way to play well together if they have the elite talent. What exactly is your point? Frankly you are all over the place. So the Mavs won because they had Dirk a HOF player who you think was a superstar at that point. In your mind that means talent trumps team play, what makes zero sense is the Heat had three superstars and guys on HOF tracks. I mean LeBron has a chance to be to the top win share guy of all time. Wade is a HOF and Bosh likely would have been if not for his medical issues. Show me the person that thought the Mavs were more talented, show me the person that even thought before that series that the Mavs had the best player? In your conclusion, you say teams always figure a way to play well if they have elite talent. Did the Heat not have elite talent in your Book? I don't want to be rude, but that statement is 100% wrong. You watched the Celtics last year right? There are a lot of examples of that not working out. The Celtics big three played team ball from day one, it's what made them so good. One of the best teams in NBA history. The Heat didn't do that, they acted like they justed needed to show up and they would win every night. They talked about winning a ton of rings before they even played a game. That Celtic team destroys the Mavs rather easily and the Heat lost rather easily, that is team play for you. I do agree with RJP point that you need a certain talent level and a guy that can score to win a championship most years. With the Pistons and Spurs really being the only teams in recent memory to not have that. I don't believe it needs to be a HOF and top 20-30 player all time. Example put a Chris Webber in his prime on that team and they could still win given the way the Heat played. Yet if that is your opinion, the Mavs vs Heat isn't an example of talent meaning more than team play, it's the exact opposite. The Heat were clearly more talented and had the best player in the NBA. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2019 12:26:25 GMT -5
Last Post. That isn't the point. The point is Dirk had the talent being a HOF player and top 30 talent all time to beat a team like the Heat. Superstar. If the Mavs didn't have Dirk and was playing team ball, they don't make it past the first round. Danny Ainge knew that the talent trumps all when putting the big 3 together. Team ball mattered so much that they ripped of, what, 20 wins in a row or something like that after not playing together in their careers. This is how I would rate the importance of talent versus team ball- Talent : : : : : : Team playing well together In conclusion, the great teams always figure a way to play well together if they have the elite talent. What exactly is your point? Frankly you are all over the place. So the Mavs won because they had Dirk a HOF player who you think was a superstar at that point. In your mind that means talent trumps team play, what makes zero sense is the Heat had three superstars and guys on HOF tracks. I mean LeBron has a chance to be to the top win share guy of all time. Wade is a HOF and Bosh likely would have been if not for his medical issues. Show me the person that thought the Mavs were more talented, show me the person that even thought before that series that the Mavs had the best player? In your conclusion, you say teams always figure a way to play well if they have elite talent. Did the Heat not have elite talent in your Book? I don't want to be rude, but that statement is 100% wrong. You watched the Celtics last year right? There are a lot of examples of that not working out. The Celtics big three played team ball from day one, it's what made them so good. One of the best teams in NBA history. The Heat didn't do that, they acted like they justed needed to show up and they would win every night. They talked about winning a ton of rings before they even played a game. That Celtic team destroys the Mavs rather easily and the Heat lost rather easily, that is team play for you. I do agree with RJP point that you need a certain talent level and a guy that can score to win a championship most years. With the Pistons and Spurs really being the only teams in recent memory to not have that. I don't believe it needs to be a HOF and top 20-30 player all time. Example put a Chris Webber in his prime on that team and they could still win given the way the Heat played. Yet if that is your opinion, the Mavs vs Heat isn't an example of talent meaning more than team play, it's the exact opposite. The Heat were clearly more talented and had the best player in the NBA. I think the point is that you typically need at least one of those guys. It’s not that the team with the greater collection of talent always wins; it’s that the way the NBA works you usually need at least one HOF level (especially a go to scorer) to get you thru a championship. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 13:01:25 GMT -5
Kemba on Marcus: “Smart, he was big-time in the huddles (Friday night), leading us to this win. He was amazing. He always amazes me with some of the things he does. That dude is special.” Is it time to re-evaluate the pick? Is he still a “disappointing 6th overall pick?” Also, is it fair to wonder if he’s the most indispensable player on the roster? Theoretically, it should be Kemba and it probably is, but this is a small team and it’s hard to pull that off without Marcus. He basically doesn’t have a position anymore. He guards 1-4 and some 5s. He allows them to play their 3 “point” guard lineups. Smarts three point shot looks good right now, but shouldn't we pump the Brakes? It's 11 games and his numbers were poor after 7 games. He's had a monster four game stretch, do we really think he's that good? That wouldn't be Smart just improving, but jumping to near elite status. It would be great if that is true, but almost unthinkable given how bad he was. For the fun of it, let's assume Smart is a much better shooter than last year and maintains that going forward. You could certainly take the disappointing label off. This version is basically an elite 3 and D guy when you add in his passing. Even with his shooting so far, he's just now cracked league average on his PER. Last four games he only has 5 FGs that weren't three pointers. I'd still say Tatum, Walker, and Brown are more important. Heck you'd have a good case to say Hayward was if he was healthy. What makes this team so good is great team play and all those options. Guys in Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward that could all be number one options on a bunch of teams. Frankly I think that's a big part of Smarts surge, the defenses are trying to stop those other guys. Even right now I'm not game planning to stop Smart or put my best defenders on him. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2019 13:17:13 GMT -5
Kemba on Marcus: “Smart, he was big-time in the huddles (Friday night), leading us to this win. He was amazing. He always amazes me with some of the things he does. That dude is special.” Is it time to re-evaluate the pick? Is he still a “disappointing 6th overall pick?” Also, is it fair to wonder if he’s the most indispensable player on the roster? Theoretically, it should be Kemba and it probably is, but this is a small team and it’s hard to pull that off without Marcus. He basically doesn’t have a position anymore. He guards 1-4 and some 5s. He allows them to play their 3 “point” guard lineups. Smarts three point shot looks good right now, but shouldn't we pump the Brakes? It's 11 games and his numbers were poor after 7 games. He's had a monster four game stretch, do we really think he's that good? That wouldn't be Smart just improving, but jumping to near elite status. It would be great if that is true, but almost unthinkable given how bad he was. For the fun of it, let's assume Smart is a much better shooter than last year and maintains that going forward. You could certainly take the disappointing label off. This version is basically an elite 3 and D guy when you add in his passing. Even with his shooting so far, he's just now cracked league average on his PER. Last four games he only has 5 FGs that weren't three pointers. I'd still say Tatum, Walker, and Brown are more important. Heck you'd have a good case to say Hayward was if he was healthy. What makes this team so good is great team play and all those options. Guys in Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward that could all be number one options on a bunch of teams. Frankly I think that's a big part of Smarts surge, the defenses are trying to stop those other guys. Even right now I'm not game planning to stop Smart or put my best defenders on him. I said indispensable not best. You always say this team is what it is because of how they play as a group. Remove the wrong guy it greatly affects how you can play. If one of Brown, Hayward or Tatum are out you have the other 2. Who replaces what Smart brings? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 13:45:13 GMT -5
What exactly is your point? Frankly you are all over the place. So the Mavs won because they had Dirk a HOF player who you think was a superstar at that point. In your mind that means talent trumps team play, what makes zero sense is the Heat had three superstars and guys on HOF tracks. I mean LeBron has a chance to be to the top win share guy of all time. Wade is a HOF and Bosh likely would have been if not for his medical issues. Show me the person that thought the Mavs were more talented, show me the person that even thought before that series that the Mavs had the best player? In your conclusion, you say teams always figure a way to play well if they have elite talent. Did the Heat not have elite talent in your Book? I don't want to be rude, but that statement is 100% wrong. You watched the Celtics last year right? There are a lot of examples of that not working out. The Celtics big three played team ball from day one, it's what made them so good. One of the best teams in NBA history. The Heat didn't do that, they acted like they justed needed to show up and they would win every night. They talked about winning a ton of rings before they even played a game. That Celtic team destroys the Mavs rather easily and the Heat lost rather easily, that is team play for you. I do agree with RJP point that you need a certain talent level and a guy that can score to win a championship most years. With the Pistons and Spurs really being the only teams in recent memory to not have that. I don't believe it needs to be a HOF and top 20-30 player all time. Example put a Chris Webber in his prime on that team and they could still win given the way the Heat played. Yet if that is your opinion, the Mavs vs Heat isn't an example of talent meaning more than team play, it's the exact opposite. The Heat were clearly more talented and had the best player in the NBA. I think the point is that you typically need at least one of those guys. It’s not that the team with the greater collection of talent always wins; it’s that the way the NBA works you usually need at least one HOF level (especially a go to scorer) to get you thru a championship. I agree you need a certain level of player, I just don't agree when you start talking about the HOF. Like lots of players play at crazy high levels for short periods of time and never make the HOF. I truly believe a guy like Thomas was a good enough scorer to win if he had enough talent and the right pieces around him. I think it would be better to say you need like a top 10-20 guy based on something like win share in a given season or a guy capable of playing at that level. Yet when looking at History isn't that really not true? Like it usually takes two really good players or a group of really talented players no? Like who was the second best guy on that team? Heck even the Pistons had Billups as the 2nd best player. As good as Dirk was in that series it wasn't like best finals performance ever. The Mavs played great team ball and the Heat were a mess. It's the perfect example of a more talented team losing to a team that played better team ball. Has a team with three of the top 11 guys in win shares ever lost in the finals? Heck how many teams have even had three players that good before in a single season? So while I agree to a certain extent with what your saying, that's not the point I was talking about. I'm talking about overall talent level and how team play can trump it. Maybe that 2017 team didn't have enough talent to win a championship, but they had enough playing great team ball to beat two teams with HOF type players and almost beat maybe the best player to ever play Basketball. The performances by the Greek Freak and Embiid that year were top of the line two way performances. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 17, 2019 13:57:16 GMT -5
Kemba on Marcus: “Smart, he was big-time in the huddles (Friday night), leading us to this win. He was amazing. He always amazes me with some of the things he does. That dude is special.” Is it time to re-evaluate the pick? Is he still a “disappointing 6th overall pick?” Also, is it fair to wonder if he’s the most indispensable player on the roster? Theoretically, it should be Kemba and it probably is, but this is a small team and it’s hard to pull that off without Marcus. He basically doesn’t have a position anymore. He guards 1-4 and some 5s. He allows them to play their 3 “point” guard lineups. Smarts three point shot looks good right now, but shouldn't we pump the Brakes? It's 11 games and his numbers were poor after 7 games. He's had a monster four game stretch, do we really think he's that good? That wouldn't be Smart just improving, but jumping to near elite status. It would be great if that is true, but almost unthinkable given how bad he was. For the fun of it, let's assume Smart is a much better shooter than last year and maintains that going forward. You could certainly take the disappointing label off. This version is basically an elite 3 and D guy when you add in his passing. Even with his shooting so far, he's just now cracked league average on his PER. Last four games he only has 5 FGs that weren't three pointers. I'd still say Tatum, Walker, and Brown are more important. Heck you'd have a good case to say Hayward was if he was healthy. What makes this team so good is great team play and all those options. Guys in Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward that could all be number one options on a bunch of teams. Frankly I think that's a big part of Smarts surge, the defenses are trying to stop those other guys. Even right now I'm not game planning to stop Smart or put my best defenders on him. You site a SSS for Smart this year but how about 36.4 last year? I am more than satisfied with that considering where he was and everything else he brings to the game. I don't expect his 3% to be 40+, it would be nice but not likely. He is far far away from being a disappointment based on last years shooting stats, at least I am satisfied anyway. It is so hard to evaluate a guy like Marcus, you have to watch the games and understand how many impact plays he makes every game. I agree with RJP, he might be the hardest guy on the team to replace. Is he a sixth man of the yr candidate? He should be!! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 14:17:08 GMT -5
Smarts three point shot looks good right now, but shouldn't we pump the Brakes? It's 11 games and his numbers were poor after 7 games. He's had a monster four game stretch, do we really think he's that good? That wouldn't be Smart just improving, but jumping to near elite status. It would be great if that is true, but almost unthinkable given how bad he was. For the fun of it, let's assume Smart is a much better shooter than last year and maintains that going forward. You could certainly take the disappointing label off. This version is basically an elite 3 and D guy when you add in his passing. Even with his shooting so far, he's just now cracked league average on his PER. Last four games he only has 5 FGs that weren't three pointers. I'd still say Tatum, Walker, and Brown are more important. Heck you'd have a good case to say Hayward was if he was healthy. What makes this team so good is great team play and all those options. Guys in Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward that could all be number one options on a bunch of teams. Frankly I think that's a big part of Smarts surge, the defenses are trying to stop those other guys. Even right now I'm not game planning to stop Smart or put my best defenders on him. I said indispensable not best. You always say this team is what it is because of how they play as a group. Remove the wrong guy it greatly affects how you can play. If one of Brown, Hayward or Tatum are out you have the other 2. Who replaces what Smart brings? When did I say best? I said most important, it's the same thing. Insert Wannamaker, he's not on Smarts level but he can do a lot of things Smart can. Take out Tatum and Brown who can replace their D and scoring? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2019 15:07:18 GMT -5
I said indispensable not best. You always say this team is what it is because of how they play as a group. Remove the wrong guy it greatly affects how you can play. If one of Brown, Hayward or Tatum are out you have the other 2. Who replaces what Smart brings? When did I say best? I said most important, it's the same thing. Insert Wannamaker, he's not on Smarts level but he can do a lot of things Smart can. Take out Tatum and Brown who can replace their D and scoring? Wanamaker can’t do what Smart does / it’s a major down grade. He can’t guard 4 positions like Smart and he doesn’t bring the leadership or energy Marcus does. I already answered the Tatum and Brown thing. Them and Hayward give you 3 guys and if you lose 1 (like you have) you can have the other 2 step up. If you lose 2 of them you’re now changing the question. Personally, I think Kemba is the most indispensable guy but Smart may be the next in line for me. Simply because Hayward, Brown and Tatum cover for each other if one is missing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 15:28:03 GMT -5
Smarts three point shot looks good right now, but shouldn't we pump the Brakes? It's 11 games and his numbers were poor after 7 games. He's had a monster four game stretch, do we really think he's that good? That wouldn't be Smart just improving, but jumping to near elite status. It would be great if that is true, but almost unthinkable given how bad he was. For the fun of it, let's assume Smart is a much better shooter than last year and maintains that going forward. You could certainly take the disappointing label off. This version is basically an elite 3 and D guy when you add in his passing. Even with his shooting so far, he's just now cracked league average on his PER. Last four games he only has 5 FGs that weren't three pointers. I'd still say Tatum, Walker, and Brown are more important. Heck you'd have a good case to say Hayward was if he was healthy. What makes this team so good is great team play and all those options. Guys in Walker, Tatum, Brown and Hayward that could all be number one options on a bunch of teams. Frankly I think that's a big part of Smarts surge, the defenses are trying to stop those other guys. Even right now I'm not game planning to stop Smart or put my best defenders on him. You site a SSS for Smart this year but how about 36.4 last year? I am more than satisfied with that considering where he was and everything else he brings to the game. I don't expect his 3% to be 40+, it would be nice but not likely. He is far far away from being a disappointment based on last years shooting stats, at least I am satisfied anyway. It is so hard to evaluate a guy like Marcus, you have to watch the games and understand how many impact plays he makes every game. I agree with RJP, he might be the hardest guy on the team to replace. Is he a sixth man of the yr candidate? He should be!! Sure without a doubt I'm fine with 36.4%. I brought it up because Smart is close to 50% on a high volume his last four games. I would say he has to be one of the top guys unless they hold him starting a bunch of games against him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2019 15:50:18 GMT -5
When did I say best? I said most important, it's the same thing. Insert Wannamaker, he's not on Smarts level but he can do a lot of things Smart can. Take out Tatum and Brown who can replace their D and scoring? Wanamaker can’t do what Smart does / it’s a major down grade. He can’t guard 4 positions like Smart and he doesn’t bring the leadership or energy Marcus does. I already answered the Tatum and Brown thing. Them and Hayward give you 3 guys and if you lose 1 (like you have) you can have the other 2 step up. If you lose 2 of them you’re now changing the question. Personally, I think Kemba is the most indispensable guy but Smart may be the next in line for me. Simply because Hayward, Brown and Tatum cover for each other if one is missing. I thought we are talking about right now, we don't have Hayward right now. Isn't that part of the reason Smart is playing bigger guys because we don't have Hayward? He took his spot. I really don't want to say anything negative given he's playing great right now. Yet you seem to be going to the extremes saying he can guard four positions. He can do that in small samples during certain lineups, yet Smart can't guard your standard PFs, heck he struggles with elite SFs that have good size. Like he can guard LeBron at times, it gives LeBron a different type of defender to worry about, but Smart isn't elite a guarding a guy like that, he has too much size and is stronger. As far as leadership couldn't he still provide that from the bench like Irving in 2017? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2019 16:40:16 GMT -5
Wanamaker can’t do what Smart does / it’s a major down grade. He can’t guard 4 positions like Smart and he doesn’t bring the leadership or energy Marcus does. I already answered the Tatum and Brown thing. Them and Hayward give you 3 guys and if you lose 1 (like you have) you can have the other 2 step up. If you lose 2 of them you’re now changing the question. Personally, I think Kemba is the most indispensable guy but Smart may be the next in line for me. Simply because Hayward, Brown and Tatum cover for each other if one is missing. I thought we are talking about right now, we don't have Hayward right now. Isn't that part of the reason Smart is playing bigger guys because we don't have Hayward? He took his spot. I really don't want to say anything negative given he's playing great right now. Yet you seem to be going to the extremes saying he can guard four positions. He can do that in small samples during certain lineups, yet Smart can't guard your standard PFs, heck he struggles with elite SFs that have good size. Like he can guard LeBron at times, it gives LeBron a different type of defender to worry about, but Smart isn't elite a guarding a guy like that, he has too much size and is stronger. As far as leadership couldn't he still provide that from the bench like Irving in 2017? No I’m talking about for the season. Leadership - sure some but a lot of what he provides is leadership by example by how he plays and brings it every single night. Guarding 4 positions... no one can guard LeBron for more than spurts. And doing it in spurts is super valuable. Gives the team a lot of options. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,861
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 17, 2019 17:52:38 GMT -5
What an awful decision by Smart not to kick the ball out. Rookie stuff right there.
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