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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 14, 2020 17:42:39 GMT -5
As I have been saying would happen ever since Boston picked up Kanter he is becoming an important player on this team, he is a double/double machine and he doesn't need many touches. And his defense is much improved which is to be expected on this team. One question, if the C's 5th and 6th best players are Smart and Kanter isn't that pretty impressive? I mean who has a better 5,6 than those two, I don't think anybody does. And yes!! Tatums progression on D shows a lot to me. Both his and Browns ceilings seem to be climbing and it is awesome to see. Give Kemba and Gordon some credit, their unselfish play has melded into the team. They don't care how many shots they get and are just as happy being facilitators. Toronto has Powell, Hollis-Jefferson and Ibaka coming off their bench. Milwaukee has George Hill and Ilyasova As much as we knocked the Lakers they have Rondo, KCP, Kuzma and Howard. So there are teams out there. Marcus is a bigger game changer that anyone of those guys when you look at team defense and what he brings then you have Kanter. C's have the advantage IMO. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 14, 2020 17:53:33 GMT -5
We badly need a bench upgrade and a guy that can score. He doesn't have to be elite or anything like that. Yet we give so many minutes right now to guys like Semi, Williams, etc and they can hardly score.
Also given Haywards issues with his feet you don't want to be counting on him for 35 plus minutes a night.
Also not good that Williams has been out forever now.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 14, 2020 18:21:25 GMT -5
I guess we are nitpicking but, I was just reacting to the “BADLY need a scorer” statement. In my opinion, you don’t want a high usage scorer. A shooter? Yes, but to me that’s a guy who’s a high percentage 3 point shooter who may only take 4-5 shots but helps space the floor. A big? I can see that but that’s someone who can take up space and body up Embiid or clog a lane on Giannis. The top 4 should all play 35+ in the playoffs and Smart another 30. That leaves 22 non center minutes or if you want to include the center minutes that’s 70 minutes to divide between Kanter/Theis and Grant Williams plus whoever you bring in... we are looking for small role specialists. Ideally you shouldn't count on all these guys to deliver you a solid, consistently good 35+ minutes in the playoffs since Brown and Tatum are still pretty young, so they could hit some physical wall that could be mitigated by playing them less, and Hayward is an injury risk. You're leaving yourself no margin if anyone struggle as well. It's dicey and it's the area that needs improving the most (especially now that Theis and Kanter are having pretty solid seasons). |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2020 20:55:05 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 15, 2020 4:10:57 GMT -5
We badly need a bench upgrade and a guy that can score. He doesn't have to be elite or anything like that. Yet we give so many minutes right now to guys like Semi, Williams, etc and they can hardly score. Also given Haywards issues with his feet you don't want to be counting on him for 35 plus minutes a night. Also not good that Williams has been out forever now. IT would be perfect, always said he could be the microwave off the bench. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 15, 2020 7:44:37 GMT -5
We badly need a bench upgrade and a guy that can score. He doesn't have to be elite or anything like that. Yet we give so many minutes right now to guys like Semi, Williams, etc and they can hardly score. Also given Haywards issues with his feet you don't want to be counting on him for 35 plus minutes a night. Also not good that Williams has been out forever now. IT would be perfect, always said he could be the microwave off the bench. Is he tho? Can you play him and Kemba together? He’s been a really good three point shooter this year but his FG% is awful it’s actually almost exactly the same as he 3 point percentage. Which basically means he’s good as a 3 point shooter but the Thomas who can create for himself by getting into the lane, finishing and/or getting to the line is gone or at least MIA. So if you are adding him as a shooter that’s ok, but not ideal due to his size. I’d much rather add a bigger shooter who can offer more matchup wise. So basically my quibble is with him being a perfect fit versus a potential useful piece. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 15, 2020 7:47:15 GMT -5
The questions about our bigs is solely about matchups. Do we have the mix that can match up against Philly, Milwaukee, Toronto or the Lakers? We know they have been good to really good overall but at the end of the day that doesn’t matter when we are talking about winning a Title unless they can hold their own against those teams.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 15, 2020 18:40:02 GMT -5
I don't think Thomas fits. Don't see PG as a big need and his D is horrible. Also like RJP said you can't play him with Walker.
ESPN real plus minus is kinda eye opening. Tatum is ranked 13th overall, but it's mainly D. One of the top rankings in the league on D, which shows you his ceiling is crazy high if he can just start making shots he made for two years.
Only Tatum, Kanter, and Brown are positive in both offense and defensive ratings. Kanter ranks 48th overall, but that's likely do to his limited role. Yet he does give you a big to bang down low and isn't close to the horrible defender he was years ago. Theis has a good defensive ranking, but a negative 1.4 offensive ranking. Only three players have above one for an offensive ranking, the elite 3.9 Walker, 1.38 for Hayward and 1.22 for Kanter.
The stats show what we see, they are very good defensively, yet up and down on offense based on how Tatum and Brown play as young players. The Bench outside of Kanter is rather horrible on offense. Only Waters and Green are positive and they haven't played much. I'm also surprised how good Williams has been on D. You see it watching the games and RPM backs it up, if his offense will just show up.
I see why Bertans is going to be huge at the deadline, he posts a 4.00 offensive ranking and is rated 23rd overall in RPM. That's likely due to playing on a crappy team, yet he'd be huge for the bench. You could trade Poirer and Semi to match salaries. Bjelica also makes a ton of sense, he's positive in both offense and D, yet ranks just 120 overall. Yet he's not a free agent next year. I don't see the Kings trading Bogdanovich but you never know. He makes more and would require adding Green to the deal. He doesn't rate positive offensively, but has great defensive numbers. Yet given his shooting that is likely more of a team issue. Saric doesn't rate well but the Suns are a mess and he has the lowest salary and you could trade Poirer straight up for him. I'd love to look at Covington, very good two way player, yet he makes 11.3 million and I don't want to move the people needed to make that work unless you make it a three team deal.
The real question is will Danny make a trade? He doesn't like to make mid-season trades only having made two since he's been here getting Thomas and dumping Bird. I like Saric because he's young and I think he fits long-term. I really don't know enough about Bertan's but he has great numbers and had always been a good three point shooter. Bjelica is a nice player, but are you trading a first for him? Let's say you can get Bogdanovich would you resign him? Is he a fit long-term?
One thing that makes sense is that by trading up for salary and resigning one of these guys, is it would give you future salary to use in a future trades. Something we currently don't have.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2020 18:50:36 GMT -5
I read an article the other day about trading Hayward. Is that even possible? Is a big available to match salary?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 15, 2020 19:30:46 GMT -5
IT may not be the guy anymore and not the perfect fit but who cares if he can play with Walker? That matters zero.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2020 21:00:00 GMT -5
Don't think it's a coincidence that the Pistons are shooting 62% with Tatum out.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2020 1:47:33 GMT -5
IT may not be the guy anymore and not the perfect fit but who cares if he can play with Walker? That matters zero. Isn't this game a perfect example of why Thomas just isn't the right fit for us? Tatum's out so the move Brown up to SF and start Smart. He has a horrible game, yet no way you can play Thomas big minutes next to Walker. I will always love Thomas, but does this version of him help more than he hurts you? |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 16, 2020 11:15:02 GMT -5
Ok IT isn't the player he once was and might not be the answer but last night was about more than Smart having a bad shooting night. Kemba had a terrible night, the refs had a bad night and Detroit was throwing it in the ocean most of the night. I mean really they hit the half time buzzer beater from 60+ feet and had a 60 FG% for the night, that wasn't all bad D. They did miss Tatum a lot also.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 16, 2020 12:40:02 GMT -5
Meanwhile, best player in the league Luka Doncic with 25/15/17 last night, holy nuts.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 16, 2020 14:03:17 GMT -5
Meanwhile, best player in the league Luka Doncic with 25/15/17 last night, holy nuts. Ok now he is great and all but "best player in the league" is maybe a bit much at this point. Was that meant to stir the pot? LOL |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 16, 2020 14:13:26 GMT -5
Ok now he is great and all but "best player in the league" is maybe a bit much at this point. Was that meant to stir the pot? LOL While I do enjoy rehashing this discussion, I'm just a fan of his game. Not often we get a 20 year old running the best offense in the league. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 16, 2020 14:17:56 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of his game but if he never plays D he will never be the best in the league. But yeah at 20, ridiculously good.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2020 14:42:02 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 16, 2020 17:33:27 GMT -5
His longevity is other worldly. Just when you think maybe he is going to come back to Earth as he ages and nope still the best and a dominant presence. He will end up playing with his son, he will end up with just about every record including most minutes played. Glad he isn't in the East anymore. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 16, 2020 20:47:48 GMT -5
I’m beginning to think this team is flawed.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 16, 2020 20:57:42 GMT -5
I’m beginning to think this team is flawed. No I think you have thought this way for a while and I am beginning to agree with you. Some excuses, Tatum and Brown are still young and unfinished products and the team needs a few days off. Something that is real is Kemba hasn't had a great game in a while, I guess he was sick but he needs to be the guy that can deliver like he has in the past. The whole team looks lethargic. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 16, 2020 21:15:15 GMT -5
They just don’t show up to start games or halves, and at some point the coaching staff should be held accountable for that.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 16, 2020 21:58:57 GMT -5
I’m beginning to think this team is flawed. One guy is out and another one has been struggling for a while like Hayward and that's it, they will have a tough time beating anyone. It's a shame a lot of it will fall on Brad because while he hasn't been perfect, expectations have been skewed for this roster, they have no depth. The fact that they're making kind of a run this quarter tells you about their heart and fight. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jan 17, 2020 2:40:37 GMT -5
Our team is somewhat flawed yes, I still think we could use a bench guy as we all have discussed.
However honestly if we add that 6th man type, I think we could go toe to toe with anyone in a 7 game series where the starters can play a ton and actually rest more between games. We have heart for sure.
2nd half of the season will be telling, the schedule is a lot harder. We really need the 2nd or 3rd seed to have a chance of coming out of the East IMO.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 17, 2020 17:32:00 GMT -5
We just can't seem to catch a break. First Hayward injury, then Robert Williams has been out forever, then Smart, then Walker. Last two games first Tatum, then Brown. Then Hayward isn't feeling good again. Like how many games have we had with the team fully healthy?
Look at 2018 teams built on defense can't maintain that for a whole season. It will come and go. All the injuries have made that an even bigger issue. Which is why we need a bench upgrade to add more offense. You can't expect a team to play crazy good D every game over 82 games. Not with back to back games and long road trips. Yet you can play crazy good D every game in the playoffs. A lot easier to play offense when your tired than D.
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