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2019-20 Boston Celtics Season
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2020 7:30:30 GMT -5
I never said he won’t have suitors; but he’s not getting a max contract and it’s not common for guys to leave in restricted free agency. Plus, teams are expected to save money this year for the 2021 class. It all adds up to you either getting him long term for a decent contract ($18-22 per?) or having him back on the one year tender. As far as being worried, no I wouldn’t lose sleep over it, but you still put the protection on it to protect you against the long shot. Also, you don’t trade a top 10 pick for a rental. I count four guy that could easily pick up the player options, heck I'd expect three of them too. Drummond being the wild card, but I don't think he'd like the market frankly. So there is going to be massive interest in him. The chances he doesn't get an offer seem rather slim right now. Now if you're OK paying him 18-22 million then yeah there isn't much worry. I'm not there right now. At the same time time it isn't crazy if you see him as a long-term replacement for Hayward. It just comes down to how you view him long-term like I said because the chances he's plays on his tender look very small right now. If you want him you have to be willing to keep him long-term which means paying him. It's the reason the Kings are looking to trade him, they don't want to pay him with Hield, Barnes, and Fox due for a new deal. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2020 7:37:08 GMT -5
Before the Celtics/Grizzlies game, Memphis had the 2nd best record in the NBA since 1/1, following the Lakers. They made that point because the Celtics beat them back to back. They're trending way up. Yea, but young teams often hit walls in the second half and they are still out performing their net rating Really still on net rating? They have improved their net rating by 5 points in 20 games. That is a lot more telling than the net rating overall while Morant was out. That team is a mix of veterans and young guys also. It kinda reminds me of our 2018 team frankly and our young guys didn't run into a wall. They actually got better, with Tatum, Brown and Rozier all having coming out parties. They are a good solid team. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2020 8:17:26 GMT -5
I never said he won’t have suitors; but he’s not getting a max contract and it’s not common for guys to leave in restricted free agency. Plus, teams are expected to save money this year for the 2021 class. It all adds up to you either getting him long term for a decent contract ($18-22 per?) or having him back on the one year tender. As far as being worried, no I wouldn’t lose sleep over it, but you still put the protection on it to protect you against the long shot. Also, you don’t trade a top 10 pick for a rental. I count four guy that could easily pick up the player options, heck I'd expect three of them too. Drummond being the wild card, but I don't think he'd like the market frankly. So there is going to be massive interest in him. The chances he doesn't get an offer seem rather slim right now. Now if you're OK paying him 18-22 million then yeah there isn't much worry. I'm not there right now. At the same time time it isn't crazy if you see him as a long-term replacement for Hayward. It just comes down to how you view him long-term like I said because the chances he's plays on his tender look very small right now. If you want him you have to be willing to keep him long-term which means paying him. It's the reason the Kings are looking to trade him, they don't want to pay him with Hield, Barnes, and Fox due for a new deal. I agree with a lot of this but can you stop insinuating that I said he wouldn’t have suitors or get an offer? I doubt he’s playing on his tender but I mentioned it because it’s an option for him if he doesn’t think the contracts being offered are reasonable. The thing with him is he’s 27 and has only made 27m in his career. He turned down 4/51 from the Kings but that’s less than 13 per season. He will get more than that but it won’t be max money. He’s also been injured and hasn’t had the year many thought which could make him rethink things a bit which could lead to him accepting a better contract. Him being restricted is an advantage for the Celtics to keep his number down. Also, a lot of teams are expected to wait for the 2021 class. His shooting could be lethal on this team. Every time I’ve seen him I’ve been impressed with his overall game but it’s a small sample so I can’t really know. In any event, I think we basically agree that we like the player and if he’s not a rental then the Memphis pick is on the table. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2020 8:23:54 GMT -5
Yea, but young teams often hit walls in the second half and they are still out performing their net rating Really still on net rating? They have improved their net rating by 5 points in 20 games. That is a lot more telling than the net rating overall while Morant was out. That team is a mix of veterans and young guys also. It kinda reminds me of our 2018 team frankly and our young guys didn't run into a wall. They actually got better, with Tatum, Brown and Rozier all having coming out parties. They are a good solid team. Don’t mistake my objective looking at numbers and possibilities as how I feel about the team. This discussion started because someone mentioned putting protection on the pick if you trade it. That’s the smart thing to do. If I were putting money on it, I’d bet the Grizz make the playoffs, but we are talking about trading the pick and you explore the other possibilities and protect yourself. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2020 8:28:23 GMT -5
One other thing about adding a guy the BB and getting his bird rights is it’s the only way to add salary to the team and extending him creates a tradable salary down the road, which is our biggest issue today. Our owners say they’ll spend big let’s see it.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 25, 2020 10:26:44 GMT -5
HUGE win tonight, the Magic have been pretty decent lately. Kemba was the obvious highlight, but man Daniel Theis is a BALLER. I believe the idea was to send him down to Maine to get some run. With Brown a game time decision, they didnt want to call him up only to have Brown available and he sits. I prefer to believe that he's injured, the alternative is that he can't outplay Semi. I think Semi has value and it might shine for another team at some point. He has been given chances to earn more playing time but I still think their is something there. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2020 10:33:32 GMT -5
www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-free-agency-top-30-players-in-next-years-class-led-by-anthony-davis-demar-derozan-brandon-ingram/I count four guy that could easily pick up the player options, heck I'd expect three of them too. Drummond being the wild card, but I don't think he'd like the market frankly. So there is going to be massive interest in him. The chances he doesn't get an offer seem rather slim right now. Now if you're OK paying him 18-22 million then yeah there isn't much worry. I'm not there right now. At the same time time it isn't crazy if you see him as a long-term replacement for Hayward. It just comes down to how you view him long-term like I said because the chances he's plays on his tender look very small right now. If you want him you have to be willing to keep him long-term which means paying him. It's the reason the Kings are looking to trade him, they don't want to pay him with Hield, Barnes, and Fox due for a new deal. I agree with a lot of this but can you stop insinuating that I said he wouldn’t have suitors or get an offer? I doubt he’s playing on his tender but I mentioned it because it’s an option for him if he doesn’t think the contracts being offered are reasonable. The thing with him is he’s 27 and has only made 27m in his career. He turned down 4/51 from the Kings but that’s less than 13 per season. He will get more than that but it won’t be max money. He’s also been injured and hasn’t had the year many thought which could make him rethink things a bit which could lead to him accepting a better contract. Him being restricted is an advantage for the Celtics to keep his number down. Also, a lot of teams are expected to wait for the 2021 class. His shooting could be lethal on this team. Every time I’ve seen him I’ve been impressed with his overall game but it’s a small sample so I can’t really know. In any event, I think we basically agree that we like the player and if he’s not a rental then the Memphis pick is on the table. Sure I was just going off of what you said at first, which was a lot different than what you have now said. 18 to 22 seems about right, but I certainly don't consider that cheap. Frankly while I do agree the Grizz pick could be in play, I don't expect it. Getting BB makes sense on a bunch of levels, yet right now he's not a starter. Unless Danny is going to get really creative like Trade Hayward for Drummond or Capela but I don't think he does that during the season. Just not his style, he values chemistry and team play. I bet he'd trade a late first for him in a second, but that likely isn't enough. I really think he targets a big if he can find one. As bunch as it pains me to say this, I really don't think he makes a move. If he does it would be more of a minor one to add future salary for a trade. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 25, 2020 10:36:45 GMT -5
That was a great win last night for obvious reasons. With both Brown and Tatum out the veterans stepped up and said we are still all star level players. The unselfish way this team operates is impressive and bodes well for the future.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 25, 2020 10:46:03 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of this but can you stop insinuating that I said he wouldn’t have suitors or get an offer? I doubt he’s playing on his tender but I mentioned it because it’s an option for him if he doesn’t think the contracts being offered are reasonable. The thing with him is he’s 27 and has only made 27m in his career. He turned down 4/51 from the Kings but that’s less than 13 per season. He will get more than that but it won’t be max money. He’s also been injured and hasn’t had the year many thought which could make him rethink things a bit which could lead to him accepting a better contract. Him being restricted is an advantage for the Celtics to keep his number down. Also, a lot of teams are expected to wait for the 2021 class. His shooting could be lethal on this team. Every time I’ve seen him I’ve been impressed with his overall game but it’s a small sample so I can’t really know. In any event, I think we basically agree that we like the player and if he’s not a rental then the Memphis pick is on the table. Sure I was just going off of what you said at first, which was a lot different than what you have now said. 18 to 22 seems about right, but I certainly don't consider that cheap. Frankly while I do agree the Grizz pick could be in play, I don't expect it. Getting BB makes sense on a bunch of levels, yet right now he's not a starter. Unless Danny is going to get really creative like Trade Hayward for Drummond or Capela but I don't think he does that during the season. Just not his style, he values chemistry and team play. I bet he'd trade a late first for him in a second, but that likely isn't enough. I really think he targets a big if he can find one. As bunch as it pains me to say this, I really don't think he makes a move. If he does it would be more of a minor one to add future salary for a trade. Agreed, which is why I said a while ago that I hope they get a good vet in the buydown season. Although if you have a chance to get a BB for the long not short haul it is an interesting option. It just seems like he would fit with this team. Also I think people should realize that the truly great teams are not 10 players deep, if you look at it historically great teams are 8 deep. That might sound stupid but it is the truth. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2020 10:59:12 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of this but can you stop insinuating that I said he wouldn’t have suitors or get an offer? I doubt he’s playing on his tender but I mentioned it because it’s an option for him if he doesn’t think the contracts being offered are reasonable. The thing with him is he’s 27 and has only made 27m in his career. He turned down 4/51 from the Kings but that’s less than 13 per season. He will get more than that but it won’t be max money. He’s also been injured and hasn’t had the year many thought which could make him rethink things a bit which could lead to him accepting a better contract. Him being restricted is an advantage for the Celtics to keep his number down. Also, a lot of teams are expected to wait for the 2021 class. His shooting could be lethal on this team. Every time I’ve seen him I’ve been impressed with his overall game but it’s a small sample so I can’t really know. In any event, I think we basically agree that we like the player and if he’s not a rental then the Memphis pick is on the table. Sure I was just going off of what you said at first, which was a lot different than what you have now said. 18 to 22 seems about right, but I certainly don't consider that cheap. Frankly while I do agree the Grizz pick could be in play, I don't expect it. Getting BB makes sense on a bunch of levels, yet right now he's not a starter. Unless Danny is going to get really creative like Trade Hayward for Drummond or Capela but I don't think he does that during the season. Just not his style, he values chemistry and team play. I bet he'd trade a late first for him in a second, but that likely isn't enough. I really think he targets a big if he can find one. As bunch as it pains me to say this, I really don't think he makes a move. If he does it would be more of a minor one to add future salary for a trade. I think we just have different definitions on what a big deal is. I’m any event, there aren’t any bigs available that the Celtics can get that improve what they have now and fit salary wise. Trading Hayward for either of those guys really lowers the trajectory of the team in my opinion. Adding a lights out shooter that doesn’t need a high usage and has good size so you can keep the same scheme could be huge. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 25, 2020 17:44:30 GMT -5
Sure I have been singing the Grant Williams song all year and he hasn't always delivered but guess who had the highest +/- from last night. Yes he was a +17.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 26, 2020 7:59:45 GMT -5
Sure I was just going off of what you said at first, which was a lot different than what you have now said. 18 to 22 seems about right, but I certainly don't consider that cheap. Frankly while I do agree the Grizz pick could be in play, I don't expect it. Getting BB makes sense on a bunch of levels, yet right now he's not a starter. Unless Danny is going to get really creative like Trade Hayward for Drummond or Capela but I don't think he does that during the season. Just not his style, he values chemistry and team play. I bet he'd trade a late first for him in a second, but that likely isn't enough. I really think he targets a big if he can find one. As bunch as it pains me to say this, I really don't think he makes a move. If he does it would be more of a minor one to add future salary for a trade. I think we just have different definitions on what a big deal is. I’m any event, there aren’t any bigs available that the Celtics can get that improve what they have now and fit salary wise. Trading Hayward for either of those guys really lowers the trajectory of the team in my opinion. Adding a lights out shooter that doesn’t need a high usage and has good size so you can keep the same scheme could be huge. A max deal right now for a player with his experience is around 26/27 million. So how can 18-22 million, which is currently about 20% of the cap not be considered a big deal? That for a guy who isn't projected to be a starter and hasn't been the last two years on the Kings. Which is why I brought up trading Hayward, if you make him a starter that contract looks better. I wouldn't make those trades right now either, but you have to wonder what levels our D would be with a dominant big defender. How is Bogdanovich not a high usage player? You can think he wouldn't need to be, but he's been exactly that coming in at 23.8% just below Brown on the year. Given how Steven let's everyone shoot I just don't see him as a low usage player. Which isn't a bad thing, it just is who he is. It's actually why I like him we need more offence and low usage guys don't really give you that. Names we talked about before Bertan's, Bjelica, and Saric come to mind. I've seen others listed like Wood if I remember right. Guys that are upgrades over Semi and Williams who are basically only defensive players right now. I would love Saric, I think he fits like a glove giving his passing ability. He's tough, we got to see that in the playoffs two years ago and he's young. He'll also likely cost around ten percent of the cap or less to resign. He's someone that could play on his tender, but you likely don't want that. We need contracts for trades. You can play him with Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Walker. I certainly not against Bogdanovich, it just seems very unlikely with the way Danny does things. Unless he's very cheap and that seems very unlikely. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2020 11:48:30 GMT -5
Would Derrick Favors be an upgrade over Theis and Kanter or just be redundant?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 26, 2020 23:57:20 GMT -5
Just deleted a whole bunch of crap.
Kobe Bryant died. Pissing match ensued. Let's move along.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2020 0:34:33 GMT -5
Thank you Kobe. As any Celtics fan would tell you, you were the villain. As any basketball lover would also tell you, you were the hero. Thank you for honoring the sport I love the most, for playing a huge part in turning it into what it is today. Thank you for inspiring me to be mentally tough, driven and focused. Thank you for being the face of the league when I was growing up, for being someone I could get angry about when the C's couldn't win it all. More than anything, thank you for the memories. For the macho plays. For the gritty games. For being the ultimate pro. For greatness. For it all.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 27, 2020 5:16:26 GMT -5
Just deleted a whole bunch of crap. Kobe Bryant died. Pissing match ensued. Let's move along. Although much of that was crap I don't see the need for you to swoop in and delete everything as it was also a window into who the man was. Your view is not the only view and you have overstepped your power. Have a nice day and I am done hear. This will be my last post. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 27, 2020 7:35:01 GMT -5
To be clear, the conversation was moved mostly because of the lack of civility being shown by a couple of posters rather than content.
A nuanced, respectful discussion of the topic is possible. That discussion wasn't it.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 27, 2020 12:41:14 GMT -5
Would Derrick Favors be an upgrade over Theis and Kanter or just be redundant? I love Favors. He's likely a more complete player than either Theis or Kanter, yet I certainly wouldn't trade both for him. Theis fits well with our starters and Kanter is very important as a bench scorer. Yet that's the issue with Favors he makes too much to easily trade for and isn't good enough to trade both guys. I'd trade Theis for him, if that was possible, but it's not. Which is why I think Danny goes after a big to add to Theis and Kanter. A guy that can actually hit three pointers. Add scoring to the second unit. Give you more options to match up against teams. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2020 12:54:32 GMT -5
Which is why I think Danny goes after a big to add to Theis and Kanter. A guy that can actually hit three pointers. Add scoring to the second unit. Give you more options to match up against teams. That guy is flat out Dario Saric. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 27, 2020 17:13:02 GMT -5
OK, now I apparently also need to point out that this is the Celtics thread and Kobe talk should go in the new kobe thread.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 27, 2020 17:38:56 GMT -5
Zion looks pretty good
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 27, 2020 17:41:01 GMT -5
This comment got moved to the Kobe thread so I’ll restate it.
Zion looked pretty good.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 27, 2020 18:07:16 GMT -5
This comment got moved to the Kobe thread so I’ll restate it. Zion looked pretty good. If the outside shot is legit then there's just no way to stop him. I don't remember seeing a guy that beastly since Shaq. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 27, 2020 19:49:54 GMT -5
This comment got moved to the Kobe thread so I’ll restate it. Zion looked pretty good. If the outside shot is legit then there's just no way to stop him. I don't remember seeing a guy that beastly since Shaq. Larry Johnson before the injuries was similar. But yea that’s not since Shaq is it - let’s say it was during Shaq. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 28, 2020 14:22:12 GMT -5
This comment got moved to the Kobe thread so I’ll restate it. Zion looked pretty good. If the outside shot is legit then there's just no way to stop him. I don't remember seeing a guy that beastly since Shaq. That's the only question about him. I really got into watching Duke last year because he's so fun to watch. Tacko was almost holding his own against him in the first half of their tournament game, but then it was all over. Plus he seems like such a good kid. |
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