2019-20 Boston Celtics Season

I love things like WARP, yet I do question if this is how he really feels or he just wanted attention. This class lacks star power. You might think Wiseman is a project, but he sure didn't look like that in three games. He also has elite size and is a very good athlete. He has touch on his shot. I don't know how you get past ten guys in this class and not take him even if he's Cousins attitude wise. They don't make many guys with his combo of size, skill and athletic ability.

Rpj what is your definition of an old school center? The guy can't be one because he can pass and play D? He doesn't shot three's, is massive, rebounds, protects the rim and bangs down low. He can play center in any generation. Heck even Embiid is jacking up three's, not Bam.

They created that team. Had a ton of picks, cap room and the ability to make many trades. They took Fultz, they traded for Butler. Then they traded for Harris. Giving up three shooters. They kept guys who couldn't shoot. The dumped Reddick for Horford. This wasn't some capped out team with no options, it was basically the Celtics.

You can debate who they should build around, I get it. I'd pick Embiid, even with the injuries and fact he gets out of shape. He's an all-time great at center. He could play against anyone and it would be crazy fun to watch. Just not a fan of guards who can't shoot. It makes things crazy hard, even if the guy is crazy good. It just doesn't work, like thinking a 43 year old QB can play in a league leading vertical passing attack.

Embiid is one of the few players whose lack of work ethic doesn’t preclude him from being elite (Think Shaq). I think his personality is awesome (Think Shaq).

If the Celtics could trade every draft pick plus everyone but Kemba, Tatum and Brown for him, they should do it. The spacing on a team with Embiid decimating the paint is just different. The problem for the Sixers is neither Embiid nor Simmons utilize space at all. They eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner. Everyone knows they each play better without the other.

You can question a bunch of things with Embiid. I just don't know how you question his winning. Three full years, three times to the playoffs. Making the second round the last two years and then this year. In 2018 it took everything LeBron had to beat us and last year they took the NBA Champions to seven games.

There coach is average at best and the GMs have given him a new team for three straight years. They keep drafting guys like Fultz, Smith, Thybul who can't really shoot which you can't do with Simmons.

The funny thing is that 2018 playoff team we destroyed was the model they need. Filled with shooters who don't need the ball. They let one playoff series alter their future.

Someone needs to shake Simmons, heck even Rondo became an OK shooter. Yet Simmons won't even try. He's the guy I wonder if he has what it takes and will he put in the work. If I was his coach I'd make him take minimum one per game or I wouldn't start him. In 2018 with them having to take a three with the game on the line, he wouldn't even try.

Simmons is probably the best defender in the league right now, I don't think you can reach that level without the appropriate work ethic. I remember reports about Embiid shooting from outside the paint (which he should NEVER do) because he lacks the physical conditioning to bang inside all game. That to me is much more damning than Simmons.

To be fair, I don't think either of them are slackers. I just hate what the 6ers built around them. How can you look at that duo and think yeah let's pair them with Harris and Horford? On the other hand, Danny really prevented the league from having to deal with Simmons, Embiid and Tatum playing together. Now THAT core has dynasty potential.

Just to circle back a little on the Center discussion. This is a hard discussion to have via message board - it’s a lot easier to have in a real conversation as it’s kind of nuanced and it doesn’t fit neatly into a box. But this is what we have.

“Old school Center” is probably a bad term but let’s just say it’s a player who can mostly only guard other Centers and is susceptible to being switched on in the pick and roll. The overall point is there are very few “centers” who are worth big money in today’s league.

Embiid, Gobert, Jokic and Towns all have some special qualities to them be it a dominant inside force, unreal playmaking or stretch capabilities.

Guys like Capela, Adams and Drummond are all good valuable players but I think it’s basically been proven that they got overpaid and don’t bring enough to the table to warrant heavy salary cap investments as main pieces. And when i say that it, it is the mold of building a team using cap space. If you draft and develop a guy, already have pieces then sign him using bird rights that’s a different story. I’d over pay a lot of guys in those situations that I wouldn’t sign using straight up cap space. These nuances do make talking NBA salary hard.

Umm I don't agree, your definition of old school center is basically non stars of the 1990s. I take it that's when you grew up? That's like the peak era of centers, there were a million of them and teams needed other bigs to try and stop them. Yet that's only one era. Plenty of old school centers weren't seven foot monsters who couldn't defend in space. Just look at HOF guys like Wes Unseld or our own Dave Cowens.

They come and they go, you usually only have a couple greats per era. The 1990s were an exception not the norm.

Wiseman looks to be a rare type of prospect. The type that could play in any era like all the greats. Yeah I'd likely take the next Tatum over him, but this class doesn't have many guys like that. I fully stand by my comments that ranking him in the mid 20s is crazy and frankly seems like he just wants attention. There's just no way over 20 guys in a draft that is weak at the top have more upside. Guys his size, with his skill and athletic ability don't come along that often.

Maybe Simmons needs to change hands, but having a PG in today's NBA who won't even try to shoot 3s is a huge problem. They need to pick one and build around them. Having Embiid and Horford standing at the 3 point line so Simmons can drive is crazy. They both can't be on fire at the same time, it's one or the other. 2018 playoffs you'd just smother Simmons and let Embiid fire away from Deep. That was awesome over him dominating the paint. It's not surprising the both do better when one is out. A team with Simmons needs a center who can shoot and doesn't need the ball, a guy like Horford. While Embiid needsa good shooting PG who isn't ball dominant, a guy like Kemba. I still think Simmons should have been a PF and in today's NBA small ball center.

Simmons is talked about as a DPOY candidate and is the best perimeter defender right along with Smart in many peoples opinions so it’s not all that far fetched.

Labeling Simmons a “PG who can’t shoot” is a very misleading statement and ignores the fact that he’s 6’10 and can guard the entire floor. This is important because a “point guard” can’t do this except him. If he were a wing, he’d be labeled an elite defensive player and a slasher on offense.

Also, I’m done with this conversation because I’m defending Simmons and I can’t stand him.

Why are we saying Shaq was lazy? Maybe I’m wrong on this but I don’t remember that... guy was pretty fit.

I have zero issues with calling him elite. It's just if you want to use defensive box score he closer to Theis, Smart and Tatum than Gianni's. Use defensive wins shares and it's Giannis and Davis. Also Real Plus minus matches with Giannis, but isn't close to as high on Simmons. Yet it adjusted right before they canceled games and I think it might be wrong. Tatum went from top five to like 14th in D rating when it happened.

I'm a big believer in bigs having a bigger impact on D than guards. Then control the paint take away the easier shots and clean up the boards. They can also be more physical.

As much as I hate Simmons and Embiid on offense, it works very well on D. Plus that team is filled with good defenders.

Maybe because he spent the second half of his career using the regular season to get in shape for the playoffs. It's a catch 22 because the rest he required to stay healthy was likely a big reason just like with Embiid, but you saw the same stuff. Games with him not close to being in shape

Agree to disagree...

Philly is filled with good defenders, but that team is poorly coached. No other way to look them being so underwhelming. Simmons can guard quicker guards better than Giannis. I know the numbers favor Giannis and Davis, but Simmons IMO does just as well without playing in a system that does him any favors. And while the 6ers have good defenders, they don't have the insane personnel the Bucks have. Even the Celtics can surround Smart with Brown, Tatum, Theis and Hayward for a tough as nails group that's very switchable. The 6ers can be exploited if they're rocking an all big men line-up.

Smart, Brown and Tatum in the same unit. Danny is an artist and I miss the Celtics so much.



Same here! I thought Fultz was such a sure thing (Dwyane Wade with an outside shot) while Tatum was a tweener. Danny absolutely nailed that call.