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Cora and the Red Sox mutually agree to part ways
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Post by cotuitfan on Jan 14, 2020 21:50:54 GMT -5
I dont mean this year - interim and maybe get him next year - i like the billy mcmillon idea for short term - see if it works
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,758
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Post by mobaz on Jan 14, 2020 23:26:24 GMT -5
This sucks. He seems like a genuine and caring guy, who ruined his chance at his best life. The right thing to do sucks sometimes.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jan 14, 2020 23:32:13 GMT -5
that's a great point would Cash ever consider coming north? Lmao, why would he quit his job and go to this dumpster fire. Be better
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jan 15, 2020 1:50:28 GMT -5
that's a great point would Cash ever consider coming north? Lmao, why would he quit his job and go to this dumpster fire. Be better No offense intended to that particular poster, just that fans need to throw away homerism in many aspects of life in general sometimes and just accept reality as it is. This case.. Cash pretty much has it made in Tampa for another 2-3 seasons with several young and controllable kids Tampa's not getting rid of and the Sox in a bind, not mentioning this heap dropped into it's lap. It ain't happening, not even in fantasyland.
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Post by benfromma on Jan 15, 2020 6:20:47 GMT -5
I keep hearing people suggest Varitek for manager and while I think he has some qualities that may make him a great manager some day this is not the situation for learning on the job. He maybe in a perfect storm with help could develop into a good manager. But think of all he would be dealing with the pressure of managing in Boston, the ramifications of MLB ruling and a roster that may never be set this year (do we want to win or are just setting our salary structure) We can talk about how our expectations are tempered but when the season starts fans will want to win. Maybe next year when the turmoil has been cleared up Varitek can with a very good bench coach can ride in on his white horse and save the day. Right now I do not know who can manage the team but hopefully he has been a MLB manager so can handle that part because the rest will be somewhat overwhelming
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 15, 2020 7:17:02 GMT -5
I keep hearing people suggest Varitek for manager and while I think he has some qualities that may make him a great manager some day this is not the situation for learning on the job. He maybe in a perfect storm with help could develop into a good manager. But think of all he would be dealing with the pressure of managing in Boston, the ramifications of MLB ruling and a roster that may never be set this year (do we want to win or are just setting our salary structure) We can talk about how our expectations are tempered but when the season starts fans will want to win. Maybe next year when the turmoil has been cleared up Varitek can with a very good bench coach can ride in on his white horse and save the day. Right now I do not know who can manage the team but hopefully he has been a MLB manager so can handle that part because the rest will be somewhat overwhelming If Varitek was really interested in working his way up through the ranks of coaching, I feel like he would have been doing it already. I don't think he's a guy who misses the day-to-day grind of the MLB season.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 15, 2020 8:11:33 GMT -5
I keep hearing people suggest Varitek for manager and while I think he has some qualities that may make him a great manager some day this is not the situation for learning on the job. He maybe in a perfect storm with help could develop into a good manager. But think of all he would be dealing with the pressure of managing in Boston, the ramifications of MLB ruling and a roster that may never be set this year (do we want to win or are just setting our salary structure) We can talk about how our expectations are tempered but when the season starts fans will want to win. Maybe next year when the turmoil has been cleared up Varitek can with a very good bench coach can ride in on his white horse and save the day. Right now I do not know who can manage the team but hopefully he has been a MLB manager so can handle that part because the rest will be somewhat overwhelming If Varitek was really interested in working his way up through the ranks of coaching, I feel like he would have been doing it already. I don't think he's a guy who misses the day-to-day grind of the MLB season. I was thinking along those lines as well, that Varitek as manager is a fan and media-driven fantasy. There is this, though: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28483061/next-red-sox-alex-cora-fallSo maybe there is interest on his part? Guys like Boone and others have jumped into managing lately with no experience, albeit to varying degrees of success. That article also mentions Matt Quatraro, Tampa's bench coach, as a potential fit as well.
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Post by patford on Jan 15, 2020 8:40:29 GMT -5
I think Cash and Maddon are more products of the Rays system (heavy analytics) than great managers. Aside from not hiring a jerk I don't think the manager is going to be a big factor. I'm sure Bloom can find someone pretty easily who is willing to let the computers make the decisions. My concern if the Sox losing draft picks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 15, 2020 9:25:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I loved him for 2018. I'll forever appreciate him for it. With that said, he cheated and was caught. He also showed up the next year like he could wakeup and win 100 games and it showed. Their season went down the tubes before it even began. I wouldn't have fired him for last year if just for merit on what happened, but I wouldn't have been beaten up if they fired him either for just that. At least now Bloom gets to pick his manager. Wait did you say you would understand if he was fired for performance last year?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 15, 2020 10:29:33 GMT -5
If Varitek was really interested in working his way up through the ranks of coaching, I feel like he would have been doing it already. I don't think he's a guy who misses the day-to-day grind of the MLB season. I was thinking along those lines as well, that Varitek as manager is a fan and media-driven fantasy. There is this, though: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28483061/next-red-sox-alex-cora-fallSo maybe there is interest on his part? Guys like Boone and others have jumped into managing lately with no experience, albeit to varying degrees of success. That article also mentions Matt Quatraro, Tampa's bench coach, as a potential fit as well. Varitek wants to manage.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 15, 2020 16:05:15 GMT -5
Honestly, I loved him for 2018. I'll forever appreciate him for it. With that said, he cheated and was caught. He also showed up the next year like he could wakeup and win 100 games and it showed. Their season went down the tubes before it even began. I wouldn't have fired him for last year if just for merit on what happened, but I wouldn't have been beaten up if they fired him either for just that. At least now Bloom gets to pick his manager. Wait did you say you would understand if he was fired for performance last year? Yes. His approach to spring training was terrible. I said I wouldn't fire him for it, but I would understand.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2020 16:09:54 GMT -5
Wait did you say you would understand if he was fired for performance last year? Yes. His approach to spring training was terrible. I said I wouldn't fire him for it, but I would understand. I wouldn't. Obviously, they discussed the spring training approach before it happened and reached an agreement.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2020 16:15:47 GMT -5
that's a great point would Cash ever consider coming north? Lmao, why would he quit his job and go to this dumpster fire. Be better Here's one reason. To double his salary? Not that it would happen because the Rays wouldn't allow it, but cash is a good reason.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 15, 2020 16:17:12 GMT -5
Yes. His approach to spring training was terrible. I said I wouldn't fire him for it, but I would understand. I wouldn't. Obviously, they discussed the spring training approach before it happened and reached an agreement. It made sense to me at the time, but that's why I'm not a manager. To be fair, the GM was let go who would also need to be on board with the decision. The owners might have agreed to the policy, but at the end of the day, it's his idea.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 15, 2020 16:21:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't. Obviously, they discussed the spring training approach before it happened and reached an agreement. It made sense to me at the time, but that's why I'm not a manager. To be fair, the GM was let go who would also need to be on board with the decision. The owners might have agreed to the policy, but at the end of the day, it's his idea. At the end of the day, his bosses gave their blessing and are therefore responsible.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 17, 2020 8:22:13 GMT -5
It made sense to me at the time, but that's why I'm not a manager. To be fair, the GM was let go who would also need to be on board with the decision. The owners might have agreed to the policy, but at the end of the day, it's his idea. At the end of the day, his bosses gave their blessing and are therefore responsible. Also, at the end of the day, he was a manager in his second year coming off a WS. The approach didn’t work therefor it was wrong, but you don’t fire a guy over that. You need to let people learn and grow especially when you hire a manager with NO experience. Now if after the season he was pig headed and stubborn about not learning from mistakes then you have a case but if you’re going to fire someone for the initial approach then you’re going to be a terrible owner and/or GM always looking for managers. In other words, you’ll be the GM. Yes, I know you said you wouldn’t, but even understanding why someone would is pretty surprising.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 17, 2020 9:07:59 GMT -5
Terry Francona was the best manager in Red Sox history. Imagine if they fired him for minor but definite mistakes with the way he used, say, Curt Schilling (arguably), Kevin Youkilis, and Mark Bellhorn in 2005? You can say "I think the manager screwed this up" without adding "and they should consider firing him for it."
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 17, 2020 9:47:57 GMT -5
Dan Roche and Lou Merloni were hinting that they're hearing that the MLB isn't finding much in the way of damning evidence in their investigation so far. Take it for whatever it's worth. Ownership sounded like they were hinting at it, especially considering how quickly they were able to answer that their 2018 title was legit.
If that's possible and maybe ownership does have an idea of the timetable the investigation will be conducted, could simply be waiting to find out/confirm that Roenicke isn't implicated in whatever happened in 2018, and if so, I would guess that he would be named manager and Jason Varitek his bench coach.
The idea would be that you have an experienced manager with positive existing relationships with the players and the opportunity for Varitek to develop relationships with the players and gain managerial knowledge from Roenicke as the bench coach.
I could be totally off but I think that Ron Roenicke winds up the manager with Varitek as bench coach, and if the Red Sox fall off this season, it opens the door for Jason Varitek to be manager in 2021 for the long-term.
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Post by dmaineah on Jan 18, 2020 8:14:54 GMT -5
Could Cora be looking at a lifetime ban for cheating? I think it’s an option.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 18, 2020 8:43:24 GMT -5
Could Cora be looking at a lifetime ban for cheating? I think it’s an option. I doubt this highly. Much of what I have read about this talks about how prevelant this is in baseball and many wish it had just been kept in house. I think their is plenty of sentiment for the people caught up in taking it too far and being rightly suspended. But to make it a life time thing is a bit much.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 18, 2020 9:11:11 GMT -5
Could Cora be looking at a lifetime ban for cheating? I think it’s an option. I doubt this highly. Much of what I have read about this talks about how prevelant this is in baseball and many wish it had just been kept in house. I think their is plenty of sentiment for the people caught up in taking it too far and being rightly suspended. But to make it a life time thing is a bit much. That's exactly why you would ban him, though. They didn't ban everyone associated with the Black Sox scandal because that type of behavior was uncommon at the time, they did it because it was too common. Or for a more recent example, John Coppolella was most certainly not the only baseball executive who ever tried anything shady in the DR. That's how this stuff works, an escalation of bad behavior until someone takes it too far and gets made an example of.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 18, 2020 9:14:34 GMT -5
And that would be the Stros organization that has been made an example of, Cora gets a year just like the other guys. Remember, Hinch was his boss.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 18, 2020 9:26:59 GMT -5
And that would be the Stros organization that has been made an example of, Cora gets a year just like the other guys. Remember, Hinch was his boss.And Cora, rightly or wrongly, is the guy he threw under the bus. Plus Cora continued this behavior on another team, one that had already been warned, etc... even if you're right that Cora shouldn't get a harsher punishment, I mean... since when does that matter?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 18, 2020 10:38:25 GMT -5
And that would be the Stros organization that has been made an example of, Cora gets a year just like the other guys. Remember, Hinch was his boss.And Cora, rightly or wrongly, is the guy he threw under the bus. Plus Cora continued this behavior on another team, one that had already been warned, etc... even if you're right that Cora shouldn't get a harsher punishment, I mean... since when does that matter? Their is zero proof thus far that he did what the Stros did with the cameras and all so what he did was what others were doing, not anywhere near the extent the Stros went. At least so far.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 18, 2020 10:50:32 GMT -5
Sam McDowell was interviewed and he mentioned La Russa using a Gatorade sign in centerfield, The next days pitcher was assigned the task of interpreting the catcher's signals off a monitor feed from the camera positioned out there. That was used to control the flashes sent from the advertising sign to the batter. We're way beyond that now.
Carried to its logical conclusion you have miniaturized computing devices and wireless networks: the Astros rumored innovation. The question for MLB is a simple one. Maybe this is where the game is going, maybe not, but do you want the La Russa's and Luhnow's of the world dragging you there or do you want to make the decision as an organization?
That's why they've come down so hard on everyone in my opinion. They don't want this getting completely out of their control. Introducing powerful technology into any business can and will change it forever. Maybe that should be a group decision, one sanctioned by both ownership and the players. Or not.
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