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Post by rjp313jr on May 5, 2020 16:30:43 GMT -5
It’s more like 3-3-5 and 5-2-4
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2020 18:51:42 GMT -5
It’s more like 3-3-5 and 5-2-4 Umm where are you getting that? It's really like the article I posted, that matches the percentages played. They almost never played five DL guys, heck the only had five guys on the team most of the year. It gets confusing because they have LBs line up with a hand in the dirt a ton. Yet they played four LBs the majority of the time. The top three guys all played over 70 percent of the snaps. |
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Post by texs31 on May 5, 2020 20:09:13 GMT -5
Looking at the per game snap %, it definitely seemed like they played a 3-4 base ("base" really just seems to be the conventional term for "package that uses 4 DBs" and not, necessarily, the package that is used most often). To that point, most games were started with 4DBs even if the snap % pointed to 5.
Definitely felt like Wise, though was more of an inside rusher in the 4-2 than a 3-4 end. Many have written that hes miscast as anything but a 4-3 end but the rest of the personnel doesnt seem to align.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 6, 2020 5:15:12 GMT -5
It’s more like 3-3-5 and 5-2-4 Umm where are you getting that? It's really like the article I posted, that matches the percentages played. They almost never played five DL guys, heck the only had five guys on the team most of the year. It gets confusing because they have LBs line up with a hand in the dirt a ton. Yet they played four LBs the majority of the time. The top three guys all played over 70 percent of the snaps. That’s my point - at the snap that’s typically how it’s lined up. Players positions are mailable these days. They really talk about one the line vs off the line. 3 man front or a 5 man front, etc. That’s how they line up most of the time. Sure sometimes it’s 4 but mostly it seems they use a 3 man or 5 man front. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 6, 2020 8:03:58 GMT -5
rjp is right, starting back in late 2018 they started the whole walking around and moving so the O had no idea what was coming. That takes veterans and guys who really know the system to pull off, which is waiting til the last second to get aligned. The secondary should be fine continuing this but we shall see with all the new guys in the front 7.
What rjp mentions about the 5-2-4 is really just the outside LB's lining up on the line in a 3-4 to add confusion for the O not knowing who is doing what as the Pats run all kinds of stunts out of that formation. It has looked good and I think with adding speed will get even better. Uche is undersized but led college football in pressure percentage and Jennings is very athletic and was a big playmaker at Bama so I think they will make an impact.
Like I said above if the Oline is healthy and all playing to their potential this could be a surprisingly good team.
Also as I said before if Allen can clog the middle it will be a big plus but don't go comparing him to Wilfork and if you think for one second Vince wasn't pushing 350+ I got some pristine land in Northern Maine for you. LOL umass.
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Post by texs31 on May 6, 2020 8:19:53 GMT -5
Not sure where I saw it but there was a Patriot's Depth Chart that broke down the Front 7 like this:
DL (can't remember if they further broke down into NT and 34E or 43DTs or not)
Edge - Guys who were either 43E or 34OLB - Simon, Winovich, etc
Move LB - Van Noy, Hightower, Collins - Lined up all over the place
ILB - Bentley and Roberts - Played strictly off the ball and in the middle of the field.
I think that the players they have and are acquiring line up fairly easily in those roles. The potential square peg is really Wise as most feel he's a straight 4-3DE (Though I believe the majority of his snaps, last year, came as the inside rusher in the 4-2 - this from multiple comments from the locals before and during the season last year). Butler seemed to move a bit past the pure inside rusher role.
As UMass points out, they do seem thin here unless a) Butler continues to improve; b) Cowart shows what made him a potential starter coming out of camp (not sure what happened) and/or; c) They have something in Coe (highest rated, by some "publications" as their highest rated UDFA.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2020 8:53:20 GMT -5
The article I posted shows how you tell what the D is, it's the amount of DL, LB and DB. It's not how they are lined up. It's what the combo of players you are using. DL are on the line and won't drop back and move around. After trading Bennett we only had five guys and only Guy played over 50% of the snaps. Cowart hardly played at about 5%. Wise was at 22% and was basically only used as a rusher. It's a hybrid 3-4, that played a lot with only two DL with extra LB and DB. Harmon played 64% of the snaps as the third safety, which shows you Duggar could have a huge role.
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Post by texs31 on May 6, 2020 9:07:17 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2020 9:30:20 GMT -5
When we ran a 4-3 Wise and Flowers would regularly move inside on passing downs and they'd remove a LB for a DB. Using lighter faster DEs. They certainly did that last year with him, but it wasn't with three other DL guys. He was flanked by LBs.
At the same time it's why teams could run on us, we didn't use a ton of DL guys. So I'm very surprised Bill is doing the same thing again. It's a team built to stop the pass not the run. It caught teams off guard last year, yet they then adjusted as the season went along. I would have thought Bill would want more options to better play both. If you have so few DL good against the run they wear down and you get the Titian's and Raven's games.
Like Wise is good against the run in a 4-3, yet he's not a guy who can take on two blockers if your only using 2-3 DL guys. Butler stepping up could be big. He has the size, but was always more of a pass rusher than run stuffer. Cowart is the guy who could be a beast and take on two players. Yet he was raw, so let's hope he has got better. Frankly if you are going to keep so few players on the DL Wise doesn't fit even if he's one of the better pass rushers. He's just too limited overall.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2020 9:35:49 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on May 7, 2020 6:11:09 GMT -5
Wonder if the Pats will have interest in Kawan Short after Carolina releases him.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 7, 2020 6:15:35 GMT -5
Outside the box thought, turn the guard out of Michigan Michael Onwenu into the nose who can't be moved. Either that or implore him to get down to 325 as he just can't move fast enough to play guard in the NFL. Maybe he can lose the wt as he already lost 18 lbs to get to 344 for the combine. If he can't lose more wt he would be the right size to play nose.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 7, 2020 7:16:29 GMT -5
Outside the box thought, turn the guard out of Michigan Michael Onwenu into the nose who can't be moved. Either that or implore him to get down to 325 as he just can't move fast enough to play guard in the NFL. Maybe he can lose the wt as he already lost 18 lbs to get to 344 for the combine. If he can't lose more wt he would be the right size to play nose. Why do you say he can’t move enough to play guard in the NFL? His former Coaches seem to think he can. I think people just look at weight and think it’s too much. Certain people are freaks and his build just seems freakish. Consistent footwork seems to be his biggest issue - which can be fixed. |
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Post by texs31 on May 7, 2020 7:24:08 GMT -5
While I agree with RJP, I would point out that he actually played some D-Line at Michigan so it's not totally out of the question.
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Post by texs31 on May 7, 2020 7:30:50 GMT -5
The new roster roles could make for some interesting cut down decisions.
You can have 48 active players every game as long as the extra 2 come from the Practice Squad. That number is reduced to 47 if you only activate 7 OL on GameDay.
So might Bill keep 1 less OL on the 53 (compared to what he usually does) and just activate a PS guy every week (depending on injuries, etc)?
Other changes are that you have 2 extra spots on the Practice Squad and you can now return 3 players from IR.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 7, 2020 7:55:20 GMT -5
Outside the box thought, turn the guard out of Michigan Michael Onwenu into the nose who can't be moved. Either that or implore him to get down to 325 as he just can't move fast enough to play guard in the NFL. Maybe he can lose the wt as he already lost 18 lbs to get to 344 for the combine. If he can't lose more wt he would be the right size to play nose. Why do you say he can’t move enough to play guard in the NFL? His former Coaches seem to think he can. I think people just look at weight and think it’s too much. Certain people are freaks and his build just seems freakish. Consistent footwork seems to be his biggest issue - which can be fixed. From the scouting reports I have read it is pointed out by all of them, hey maybe he can lose some weight but traditionally BB wants guys who can get out in space and get to the second level. Things that he will have a hard time with the speed of the NFL. His strengths line up with a NT, from what I have read. Can't be bull rushed and very good in small spaces. On a side note, Duggars on top of being an elite athlete studied engineering and physics in college. No easy feat with the demands of playing football, takes a lot of discipline to succeed at both simultaneously. And he impressed everyone at the senior bowl leading the Pats to beat out other teams that were interested. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 7, 2020 8:01:29 GMT -5
The new roster roles could make for some interesting cut down decisions. You can have 48 active players every game as long as the extra 2 come from the Practice Squad. That number is reduced to 47 if you only activate 7 OL on GameDay. So might Bill keep 1 less OL on the 53 (compared to what he usually does) and just activate a PS guy every week (depending on injuries, etc)? Other changes are that you have 2 extra spots on the Practice Squad and you can now return 3 players from IR. Those are some interesting rule changes with interesting ramifications. Dictating the # of OL vs all other positions on game day rosters and requiring PS guys over 53 man guys? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 7, 2020 9:03:37 GMT -5
I thought those rules go into effect next year when they will expand the games to 17? Isn't the practice squad going to 12 the only change this year?
The crazy interesting part is you can have four veteran players on the practice squad starting next year when it increases to 14. So rosters increase to 55 and you can have two activate guys from the practice squad. It's going to be crazy, Bill might spend millions and millions on the practice squad.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 7, 2020 9:13:41 GMT -5
patriotswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/06/can-the-patriots-get-undrafted-wr-jeff-thomas-to-reach-his-potential/I watched about 30 minutes of film on him. You don't see guys as electric as him go undrafted very often. He needs to work on his routes, but wow he's very talented and electric with the ball in his hands. I totally disagree with the article in that he can easily be an outside guy, yet he can do much more. He's just very electric as an athlete, to go along with a 38.5 vertical and 4.45 speed. He would have put up better numbers if Miami had a good QB and a line that could block. All the athletes like him at WR went in the first three rounds of the draft. Now he'll either be a steal or the first player cut.
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Post by texs31 on May 7, 2020 10:08:04 GMT -5
I thought those rules go into effect next year when they will expand the games to 17? Isn't the practice squad going to 12 the only change this year? The crazy interesting part is you can have four veteran players on the practice squad starting next year when it increases to 14. So rosters increase to 55 and you can have two activate guys from the practice squad. It's going to be crazy, Bill might spend millions and millions on the practice squad. According to a piece on CBSSportsline (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfls-new-cba-explained-heres-a-look-at-all-the-season-roster-and-salary-changes/), those roster rules go in effect this year. Further expansion to 14 PS players in 2022. This year, the regular season stays at 16 games but playoffs expand to 14 teams. Next year, there is an option to expand to 17 games. If so, a preseason game is dropped. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 7, 2020 10:30:12 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on May 7, 2020 11:33:31 GMT -5
Lee's contract details are in so Miguel has the cap at 1,199,398M in room. He says they need to create 300K in space to sign their rookies.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 7, 2020 11:40:01 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/prospects/mike-onwenu?id=32194f4e-5741-5291-a74a-040f32c558e0The thought of him being a NT kinda seemed crazy at first. Yet he was a top ten guy on OL Nationally as a recruit and they played him there as a freshman. So they saw something right? We do have a history of molding guys. We need NT depth really bad and three guards in two years seems a little much. Unless they plan to keep Herron a tackle. It's interesting that's for sure.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 7, 2020 13:17:21 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/prospects/mike-onwenu?id=32194f4e-5741-5291-a74a-040f32c558e0The thought of him being a NT kinda seemed crazy at first. Yet he was a top ten guy on OL Nationally as a recruit and they played him there as a freshman. So they saw something right? We do have a history of molding guys. We need NT depth really bad and three guards in two years seems a little much. Unless they plan to keep Herron a tackle. It's interesting that's for sure. Crazy just because it was me suggesting it.... |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 7, 2020 13:19:57 GMT -5
Nothing would surprise me but if they convert him it’s because Hs sucks at guard when they get to camp. They didn’t draft him to convert him, we’d know about that already.
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