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Post by costpet on May 1, 2020 10:55:51 GMT -5
This is why it's smarter to play baseball. There is no limit on salary and all contracts are guaranteed. Plus you don't end up with lifelong injuries. Devlin said he was one play away from being paralyzed.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2020 13:44:38 GMT -5
So Lee must of signed a veteran minimum deal, which only shows how overpaid Sanu is. Has there been a worst trade? I mean add Mims to our draft class and things look really good. People say Brady took off after looking at the roster but his dead money and the trade for the guy he wanted, plus the Brown money is a huge reason for this mess! Brady’s dead money helped them stay competitive - it’s been building for a while. They were always going to need a cap reset year and soon so making it coincide with Brady’s departure is a very smart move. You get Stidham’s rookie salary to balance it all out. Honestly, the offensive line issues were the biggest problems last year. Their left guard was the only healthy player all year. Mason was a shell playing thru injuries and Cannon was as well. It killed the run game and gave the passing game no time. Obviously, QB is the most important position but right behind that is offensive line. It makes or breaks the offense. I’m not saying the skill positions were very good but if they got the same line play last year as they did the previous one, you might be talking Super Bowl. Did it though? The money they freed up mostly went to Brown and Sanu last year. They did very little, heck you can argue they did more harm than good. Brady focusing on Harry and Myers all year likely makes them better by year's end. Brady just couldn't or wouldn't do it. He didn't want to work with rookies! The line had issues at times, yet did you really think it was a huge issue in that playoff game? 4.5 yards per run, zero sacks. Brady checked out and didn't want to put in the extra work that frankly made him so great. Now in Tampa he is doing that extra work even in a pandemic. Myers was the most impactful rookie we've ever had at receiver during Bills time. Stidham had chemistry with him from day one, Brady never did. Heck he had zero targets in that playoff game. That's the thing with big not crazy fast possession receivers you have to trust them to make plays, use their size and ball skills to make plays. They won't get wide open and Brady didn't all year. They made a few mistakes and that was it. That wasn't Brady from the early 2000s. Not to say it's all on him, Bill not getting any TEs and not using Harris were head scratchers. The Sanu trade was horrible the minute it was made. Trading for Bennett when you were going 3-4. Taking a CB in the 2nd round when you had the best group in the NFL. Stashing so many draft picks on IR, which hurt OL depth. Not getting a better deep threat than Dorsett, heck trusting Gordon. Heck watching Bolden return kicks all year was painful, even if he was a darn good special teams player in other areas. Yet Brady wanted his guys. So I really think last year was more Brady than the OL or lack of weapons. He was off all year, not once did we see him have a crazy hot streak. Heck that dates back to the 2018 playoffs when he wasn't that great either. I don't know if it was decline, injury or he was already checked out halfway. Yet he was off and seem pissed he didn't have the best weapons in the NFL. It's a shame because that D was special last year!
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Post by rjp313jr on May 1, 2020 15:29:41 GMT -5
Sorry Brady’s dead money helped them TRY to be more competitive.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 3, 2020 5:08:27 GMT -5
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Post by ryan24 on May 3, 2020 6:01:07 GMT -5
I go back to the available money to sign Dalton. It does not appear that the pats had 3 to 7 mil available to sign him. Also looks like he wanted to finish out career near home. So, Stidham is the guy?? because bb does not or did not have any other cards to play? Do you believe that Bill thinks he can lead them to the playoffs? Or at least not get in the way, game manager, Not sure how seriously any of the vet FA qb;s took going to the pats. On the surface it appears to be a good opportunity. But, maybe not in their eyes.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2020 7:05:21 GMT -5
I go back to the available money to sign Dalton. It does not appear that the pats had 3 to 7 mil available to sign him. Also looks like he wanted to finish out career near home. So, Stidham is the guy?? because bb does not or did not have any other cards to play? Do you believe that Bill thinks he can lead them to the playoffs? Or at least not get in the way, game manager, Not sure how seriously any of the vet FA qb;s took going to the pats. On the surface it appears to be a good opportunity. But, maybe not in their eyes. Even if you don’t buy Dalton because of money or location, if he wanted Winston then he signed a vet minimum deal to back up Brees. You don’t think he’d have rather come to NE to probably start? Newton is still out there. As far as we know, NE hasn’t even checked in on any of these guys. So based off the information we know, it seems pretty clear that Stidham is their guy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 3, 2020 8:01:33 GMT -5
Ryan24- You can get around 9 million just by replacing Sanu and Buckhead. Any team does that for a QB if you need one. Nevermind the other ways. They could get 20 million plus if they wanted to. It's not about money.
No way any QB let's money Trump a chance to start. I 100% believe you could have had Winston, Newton or Dalton. You really think those guys take back up spots over the Patriots and a much better chance at starting? Really? Oh no I don't want any part of the greatest coach every?
So yeah all the reports are 100% right it seems, they love Stidham. Why else not sign Veterans or draft a guy? I think the Patriots think Stidham is much more than just a game manager. Maybe he's like that next year, but they have to see much more than that. Given his scouting report that isn't crazy at all. He always had franchise QB upside. Best preseason QB production every for a rookie QB, better than Brady, Hoyer, Cassell, Jimmy, Bresett, any of them and those guys won a lot of games lol.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 3, 2020 8:23:05 GMT -5
I know it's kinda hard for us to judge what a mobile yet non elite running QB can do. Bledsoe to Brady is 30 years of nothing from our QBs. Yet it really makes a huge difference. Stidham is like Book at Notre Dame, just a better arm. Book just changes things because he makes plays with his arm and legs. No huge plays, but 30-50 yards a game is huge. Makes the D have to defend both and thus limits the pass rush and gets you extra first downs. A few of those and they keep an extra guy in the box, opening up pass plays. Very hard to jam short routes, rush the passer and defend the QB run.
I really think Bill and McDaniel's are giddy at the options they now have. Heck I fully expect some old school college football option plays.
It plays into Keene being a new age fullback who can get out and block down the field and on the sidelines. Overload a side like Baltimore did all last year. Add in big WRs like Harry and Myers, with Asiasi and Keene. Then Stidham and Michel. That's the way Michel dominants like 2018 with Allen and Gronk, we could be better next year. Both guards move very well in space and at the second level. Hopefully had Harris next year as fresh as any RB could be.
Old school football with a modern touch of dual threat QB. I can hardly wait.
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Post by ryan24 on May 3, 2020 10:04:20 GMT -5
I know it's kinda hard for us to judge what a mobile yet non elite running QB can do. Bledsoe to Brady is 30 years of nothing from our QBs. Yet it really makes a huge difference. Stidham is like Book at Notre Dame, just a better arm. Book just changes things because he makes plays with his arm and legs. No huge plays, but 30-50 yards a game is huge. Makes the D have to defend both and thus limits the pass rush and gets you extra first downs. A few of those and they keep an extra guy in the box, opening up pass plays. Very hard to jam short routes, rush the passer and defend the QB run. I really think Bill and McDaniel's are giddy at the options they now have. Heck I fully expect some old school college football option plays. It plays into Keene being a new age fullback who can get out and block down the field and on the sidelines. Overload a side like Baltimore did all last year. Add in big WRs like Harry and Myers, with Asiasi and Keene. Then Stidham and Michel. That's the way Michel dominants like 2018 with Allen and Gronk, we could be better next year. Both guards move very well in space and at the second level. Hopefully had Harris next year as fresh as any RB could be. Old school football with a modern touch of dual threat QB. I can hardly wait. So pound the ball similar to the ravens and the titans? Play defense. Sounds good. What is your projection for the coming season?
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on May 3, 2020 10:10:05 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2020 10:22:05 GMT -5
I know it's kinda hard for us to judge what a mobile yet non elite running QB can do. Bledsoe to Brady is 30 years of nothing from our QBs. Yet it really makes a huge difference. Stidham is like Book at Notre Dame, just a better arm. Book just changes things because he makes plays with his arm and legs. No huge plays, but 30-50 yards a game is huge. Makes the D have to defend both and thus limits the pass rush and gets you extra first downs. A few of those and they keep an extra guy in the box, opening up pass plays. Very hard to jam short routes, rush the passer and defend the QB run. I really think Bill and McDaniel's are giddy at the options they now have. Heck I fully expect some old school college football option plays. It plays into Keene being a new age fullback who can get out and block down the field and on the sidelines. Overload a side like Baltimore did all last year. Add in big WRs like Harry and Myers, with Asiasi and Keene. Then Stidham and Michel. That's the way Michel dominants like 2018 with Allen and Gronk, we could be better next year. Both guards move very well in space and at the second level. Hopefully had Harris next year as fresh as any RB could be. Old school football with a modern touch of dual threat QB. I can hardly wait. Don’t leave out Andrews... he’s a very mobile center and they use that in the run game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 3, 2020 10:49:45 GMT -5
Looked at draft again seeing how they could have done things differently. Not perfect because it uses hindsight and you don't know how even one pick would change things.
First you couldn't take a safety latter, they all went in the 2nd round. Well the good ones did.
Yet if they didn't trade up for three guys and they just fell to them. You get two extra fourth round picks. Just for fun take WR Quintez Cephus then C Tyler Biadesz. Then in the fifth take DT Larrell Murchison. In the 7th take your kicker over the Memphis center.
That changes the value a ton, that's a B+/A- type draft. Who knows maybe you lose the guys you wanted more. Yet it shows how it wasn't the best value draft either. You missed out on three guys with starter upside.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 3, 2020 10:56:48 GMT -5
I know it's kinda hard for us to judge what a mobile yet non elite running QB can do. Bledsoe to Brady is 30 years of nothing from our QBs. Yet it really makes a huge difference. Stidham is like Book at Notre Dame, just a better arm. Book just changes things because he makes plays with his arm and legs. No huge plays, but 30-50 yards a game is huge. Makes the D have to defend both and thus limits the pass rush and gets you extra first downs. A few of those and they keep an extra guy in the box, opening up pass plays. Very hard to jam short routes, rush the passer and defend the QB run. I really think Bill and McDaniel's are giddy at the options they now have. Heck I fully expect some old school college football option plays. It plays into Keene being a new age fullback who can get out and block down the field and on the sidelines. Overload a side like Baltimore did all last year. Add in big WRs like Harry and Myers, with Asiasi and Keene. Then Stidham and Michel. That's the way Michel dominants like 2018 with Allen and Gronk, we could be better next year. Both guards move very well in space and at the second level. Hopefully had Harris next year as fresh as any RB could be. Old school football with a modern touch of dual threat QB. I can hardly wait. So pound the ball similar to the ravens and the titans? Play defense. Sounds good. What is your projection for the coming season? In a way, but with a Patriot type passing attack and likely a little less running. Much more like the Ravens than Titans. I think they do rather well. Fight for the division and likely at worst make the playoffs as a wild card team. Yet if everything goes right they could be an 11-12 win team fighting for a bye week. At the same time that hardly happens in the NFL. They seem to have better depth at areas than last year's team. No massive glaring holes like TE last year.
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Post by costpet on May 3, 2020 12:45:15 GMT -5
Just wondering. If A. Brown's dead cap money was converted to roster money, would that affect their salary cap? I think it's 4.5 million. If it doesn't, why not bring him back?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2020 16:27:53 GMT -5
They can’t convert Browns dead money to salary if that’s what you’re thinking. It was part of the bonus they paid to him last year.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2020 16:29:02 GMT -5
Remember, rookie tight ends are rarely big contributors.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 4, 2020 7:53:27 GMT -5
Watson, LaCosse and Izzo had 36 receptions, 418 yards and two TDs total. Develin, Johnson, Tomlinson, and Roberts had 3 catches, 44 yards and one TD total. Game totals were 10, 11, 6, 2, 4, 2 and 16 for Roberts yet only a few at fullback.
Just having two guys that can block for 16 games will be a major bonus, plus a fullback.
Top five rookies from last year averaged 31.4 catches, 360.4 yards and 2.8 TD. Four guys had over 28 catches, 311 yards and 2 TD. Number five Moreau drags down the yards and catches but had the most TD at 5. Fant was #1, league rank #16 40 catches 562 yards and 3 TD. Moreau was #36 with 21 catches, 174 yards and 5 TD. The others were 28, 30, and 34. I think those are fair ranges for both our guys. Not a huge Keene fan as a true TE, yet Watson our top guy had 17 catches, 173 yards and zero TD. I can see Keene alone topping that.
So yeah I don't see monster production compared to years of huge Gronk numbers. Yet I think we can easily top last year's horrible numbers. Yet the biggest improvement is likely having two TEs to block and being able to run two TE sets every game. They basically couldn't do that at all last year.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 4, 2020 14:02:27 GMT -5
Tight end is just a harder transition than other positions since they need to learn routes and blocking assignments was all I was saying
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Post by texs31 on May 4, 2020 19:00:05 GMT -5
NE coverting UDFA TE Rashod Berry to LB. Started there ar OSU his freshman year before converting to TE. Played some snaps there this year as well.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 5, 2020 8:35:42 GMT -5
Just some thoughts after spending more time reading everything I can find about the Patriots.
BB has a lot of confidence in Stidham and I am becoming a believer that he will be a top 10 QB in the league quickly. Maybe not year 1 but he will be good and he will go to some pro bowls. His youth and history of playing in different settings with different receivers will help him and the young core be successful quickly. He won't be like Tom was with new guys having to earn his trust, Stidham will develop with all the young guys together. He showed it last year with all the other rookies who had good preseasons with him throwing them the ball. This also leads to my confidence in the 2 TE's they took this yr. I know this is hyperbole at this time but those 2 guys could end up being like the FB and TE in San Fran, especially Keene who I think might be a very pleasant surprise. I like Asiani a lot also but I think he will take some time and might need to get in better shape as a pro. IMO the biggest question mark and the group that has the highest ceiling is the Oline. If everyone is healthy and playing to their potential they can be dominant but another yr like last with all the injuries will derail the O and set Stidham back. That would be a very bad thing and derail the season. If their is one.
On D I really like what I see from the draft and some signings that I think will offset the losses. Uche, Jennings and Duggar could all be significant contributors along with Williams from last year and a 2nd yr bump from Winovich. Once again it is the Dline that concerns me as the Pats usually have more girth up the middle. They have always been best with a monster in the middle like Wilfork or Ted Washington but that depends on if they are playing more 4/3 vs 3/4, looks like it will be 4/3 based on the roster. The strength is still the secondary with DPOY Gilmore, the McCartys and the addition of some big athletic safeties.
As usual I am high on this years draft class as I see what should/could be 6/7 good players with the potential to be really good players. Hope I'm right on that for once but you know how that is, the more you read about them the more optimistic you become.
If they play 16 games I think we are looking at 9-7, I would go 10-6 but they have a tough schedule and not a lot of time to prepare. Maybe that seems optimistic to some but the veteran leadership will be pushing hard on the "Tom gone thing and we are still the Patriots" mantra. It will depend on the Oline and contributions from 1st and 2nd year player but as usual I am leaning towards them having success.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2020 10:54:11 GMT -5
Why does the roster say 4-3 to you? It screams 3-4 to me. Beau Allen brought in to replace Shelton. Uche and Jennings sure look like 3-4 OLB to me. Instead of taking 4-3 DE like wise, they went OLB edge rushers.
The key for me is adding weapons, more big plays. Hence why I wanted a WR big time. We need an outside guy. If Lee can stay healthy he can do it. Jeff Thomas could be a massive steal if he buys in to the system. Also J.J. Taylor is tiny but a big play threat. We need that and both Thomas and Taylor have been return guys. Byrd is fast, but not an outside guy per reports. We need a guy to stretch the field.
I also hope Keene can be a core special teams guy and swiss army knife on offense. Those opening up another spot, rather than our normal five special teamers who can't do much else.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2020 11:05:58 GMT -5
The one area that does worry me is DL. Wise is perfect size for a 3/4 DE and again they have no backup nose tackle. Very limited depth and doesn't allow you to sub guys and keep them fresh. Hopefully Cowart can take a big step forward as he has perfect size. This is definitely a spot were they could make a trade or sign a another guy.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 5, 2020 12:54:29 GMT -5
When I think of a 3 man D line I think Of an immovable monster at NT and 6-5 300 lbs at end. Wise is 275 so at that wt he could be weakside DE but as of right now they look a little weak up the middle unless Allen becomes the immovable nose. The number of players hovering around 300-315 along with Simon and Winovich lead me to think 4-3 but it will probably be a hybrid because they are missing a true NT.
SI had a good take on the Pats drafting and building the D to stop RPO QB's as they lost 3 games last year to those guys and it is becoming even more prevalent. So you need speed and athleticism on the outside while also being able to clog the middle with size.
At this point I am just hoping their is a season. I think the MLB is going to lose the whole season, sadly. But what do you do with the Sox getting under the tax cap and resetting in a nonseason?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 5, 2020 13:06:06 GMT -5
Base 3-4 and 4-3 defenses are a thing of the past. You need to adapt constantly these days. There just isn’t room to build a defense the way you did even 5 years ago.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2020 14:46:20 GMT -5
www.google.com/amp/s/nesn.com/2019/08/what-we-learned-from-patriots-new-defensive-alignment-in-preseason-opener/amp/Allen is almost 330 pounds, the same size as Wilfork. The DL is completely the same minus Shelton at 344, instead they got Allen who is the same type of player. You have four guys at 300 or more in Allen, Guy, Butler and Cowart. As you can see it's not any standard 3-4, yet it's a 3-4 not a 4-3. They drafted a bunch of LBs and another safety which fits in last year's model. I hate the Uche pick it you are running more of a 4-3. Yet I don't see any evidence they are greatly changing last year's approach. Heck if anything they seem to have fully committed to it.
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