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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2020 6:20:14 GMT -5
What a trash write up. It’s typical of this day and age though. You want to write a kid off because of a tattoo he got when he was 17 and has fully admitted he made a mistake by not knowing the reference fully. If anyone thinks a normal 17 year old thinks things like the meaning of a tattoo thru then they are an idiot. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2020 6:21:56 GMT -5
Jeff Thomas is the most interesting prospect but he probably won’t make it thru minicamp. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2020 6:26:31 GMT -5
Significant difference between comp and filling role. Stidham is expected to fill the role of Tom Brady. Even the biggest Stidham fans aren't comparing him. Not sure the expectations are even for this season but as eventual roles. That being said, apparantly Uche showed well at Sr Bowl week in handling the off the ball duties. Not pretending to be an evaluator. Only reporting what is being said (Reiss, Perry, others). I didn't respond directly to your post because I knew you were just passing along information. Almost every Patriot reporter has been on the Collins comp and role train. Now he's an inside LB. It's kinda driving me crazy because Uche is really unlike anyone Bill has ever brought in. He's stayed away from those undersized speed edge rushers like the plague for decades. Let's get creative and think about what Bill will do with one and not try lazy comps and act like he's going to fill a normal role. Let's talk about adding maybe a Vonn Miller type edge rusher. That has to be what Bill is thinking, that's what he did in College. That's why he was drafted, he was a force going after the QB. I hadn't seen any of the comps, only usage suggestions so thank you for the clarification. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2020 6:40:37 GMT -5
Haven't read the article, nor do I care to. I will say a couple of things about the Pats new kicker:
1. I find it highly unlikely that he had that tattoo for, what, 4 years and only found out about it's meaning on Saturday? Nobody ever told him? That seems odd to me.
2. At first, I was struggling to figure out how he made it through college football without teammates (some of whom are black) wouldn't call him out. I quickly remembered, however, that it would be naïve of me to think this is the first time those young men had to bite their tongue for fear THEY would be the ones punished.
3. That being said, it could be difficult to tell the truth without throwing loved ones under a bus. With all of these "discoveries" (old tweets, actions, tattoos), I think people would/should be open to a story of redemption. "I grew up sheltered in a close minded community. Now that I've gotten out into the world and realized some things, I have a whole new attitude". But to say something like that, you'd basically be saying "My family/friends are racist, but I'm not anymore". That's probably not a good idea.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 29, 2020 8:02:00 GMT -5
Haven't read the article, nor do I care to. I will say a couple of things about the Pats new kicker: 1. I find it highly unlikely that he had that tattoo for, what, 4 years and only found out about it's meaning on Saturday? Nobody ever told him? That seems odd to me. 2. At first, I was struggling to figure out how he made it through college football without teammates (some of whom are black) wouldn't call him out. I quickly remembered, however, that it would be naïve of me to think this is the first time those young men had to bite their tongue for fear THEY would be the ones punished. 3. That being said, it could be difficult to tell the truth without throwing loved ones under a bus. With all of these "discoveries" (old tweets, actions, tattoos), I think people would/should be open to a story of redemption. "I grew up sheltered in a close minded community. Now that I've gotten out into the world and realized some things, I have a whole new attitude". But to say something like that, you'd basically be saying "My family/friends are racist, but I'm not anymore". That's probably not a good idea. My first impression, upon seeing his haircut and his appearance, was honestly, “he looks like a white supremacist.” It might have been the strong German name too. So when it came out about the tattoo I wasn’t super surprised. I will say however, That I knew another guy who had the 3%er logo on the back of his car. And I know for a fact he was the farthest thing from a racist or far right character. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2020 8:06:00 GMT -5
Haven't read the article, nor do I care to. I will say a couple of things about the Pats new kicker: 1. I find it highly unlikely that he had that tattoo for, what, 4 years and only found out about it's meaning on Saturday? Nobody ever told him? That seems odd to me. 2. At first, I was struggling to figure out how he made it through college football without teammates (some of whom are black) wouldn't call him out. I quickly remembered, however, that it would be naïve of me to think this is the first time those young men had to bite their tongue for fear THEY would be the ones punished. 3. That being said, it could be difficult to tell the truth without throwing loved ones under a bus. With all of these "discoveries" (old tweets, actions, tattoos), I think people would/should be open to a story of redemption. "I grew up sheltered in a close minded community. Now that I've gotten out into the world and realized some things, I have a whole new attitude". But to say something like that, you'd basically be saying "My family/friends are racist, but I'm not anymore". That's probably not a good idea. I had no clue what that tattoo meant until some article explained it to me. It’s not all that hard to believe some kid was searching things on the internet and saw patriotic looking dudes with a cool looking tattoo and decided to get one. It’s also not hard to believe that a locker room full of people had no idea what the tattoo meant either. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that’s the more plausible scenario. Very few people with tattoos from their teenage years will say they put a ton of thought into them. The kids response to it has been nothing but straight forward and self deprecating. To interpret things any way other than how he’s stated them with ZERO evidence that he is or was any kind of racist or antigovernment militia wannabe honestly pisses me off to no end. I’m really sick and tired of how judgmental we’ve all gotten towards one another. The more we can knock someone down the better! If more comes out about the kid, then fine we can all adjust to what’s available but as of now there’s nothing to judge this kids character on. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2020 8:23:14 GMT -5
Devlin saying he wants to stay around the game - maybe he will work with the Patriots in some capacity. Feel bad for a guy like him who worked so hard to just make it and then it ends early just as he was starting to really break through in his role.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 29, 2020 8:42:46 GMT -5
Few things, I see the Jennings to Van Noy comp, I don't see the Uche to Collins comp. Collins was a former DB that was a true three down guy from day one. Uche is a part-time college player, mostly rushing the passer. Sure reports say he looks like he can drop back in coverage, but he has hardly done that. The guy has zero interceptions and only two PBU in his career and those were likely on the line while rushing the passer. He's not close to Collins and I don't see how he's an ILB right now. He seems more like Bruce Irvin a pass rushing specialist. Maybe down the road you develop him, yet zero percent chance he can take over for Collins. Bill adjusts to his talents, we won't do everything the way we did it last year. It's not really these guys replace those guys. More like we have two guys to play OLB. We really didn't trade up for a kicker right? In the Asiasi trade we gave up 3rd, 4th, 5th, got back a higher third and 5th round pick. I mean they likely traded up for the Michigan guard because they had too many picks, just like last year. Yet that's a huge fricken problem if you have more picks than draftable players. I get having a smaller board, yet your board is way too small if that keeps happening year after year. Why not just take a flyer on some of the highest rated guys? You cut them in camp you lose nothing, yet might gain a ton! James Devlin retiring fully explains the Keene pick for me. We know how Bill values Fullbacks and Keene would be a good receiver for a fullback. Think Daryl Johnston type guy. A true three down type fullback that can be a weapon unlike Devlin. If that's the plan it makes a lot more sense. Yet I also wish they would have taken another TE. The only problem with comparing Keene to Devlin is Keene isn't known for blocking nor does he have the bady for it. He should definitely be good out of the backfield and as a Hback but he isn't the thumper they need in the running game. From what I have read and seen of him, he looks skinny for the wt he is listed at. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 29, 2020 15:28:32 GMT -5
Devlin saying he wants to stay around the game - maybe he will work with the Patriots in some capacity. Feel bad for a guy like him who worked so hard to just make it and then it ends early just as he was starting to really break through in his role. The guy got 5 years of 16 games plus a full year on IR when the average NFL career is 3.3 years, made a Pro Bowl, and got 3 Super Bowl rings. Plus he's got an Ivy League degree to fall back on if he doesn't go into coaching or something. I completely understand the sentiment, but I'm sure he'd be the first person to tell you not to feel bad for him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2020 19:32:13 GMT -5
Few things, I see the Jennings to Van Noy comp, I don't see the Uche to Collins comp. Collins was a former DB that was a true three down guy from day one. Uche is a part-time college player, mostly rushing the passer. Sure reports say he looks like he can drop back in coverage, but he has hardly done that. The guy has zero interceptions and only two PBU in his career and those were likely on the line while rushing the passer. He's not close to Collins and I don't see how he's an ILB right now. He seems more like Bruce Irvin a pass rushing specialist. Maybe down the road you develop him, yet zero percent chance he can take over for Collins. Bill adjusts to his talents, we won't do everything the way we did it last year. It's not really these guys replace those guys. More like we have two guys to play OLB. We really didn't trade up for a kicker right? In the Asiasi trade we gave up 3rd, 4th, 5th, got back a higher third and 5th round pick. I mean they likely traded up for the Michigan guard because they had too many picks, just like last year. Yet that's a huge fricken problem if you have more picks than draftable players. I get having a smaller board, yet your board is way too small if that keeps happening year after year. Why not just take a flyer on some of the highest rated guys? You cut them in camp you lose nothing, yet might gain a ton! James Devlin retiring fully explains the Keene pick for me. We know how Bill values Fullbacks and Keene would be a good receiver for a fullback. Think Daryl Johnston type guy. A true three down type fullback that can be a weapon unlike Devlin. If that's the plan it makes a lot more sense. Yet I also wish they would have taken another TE. The only problem with comparing Keene to Devlin is Keene isn't known for blocking nor does he have the bady for it. He should definitely be good out of the backfield and as a Hback but he isn't the thumper they need in the running game. From what I have read and seen of him, he looks skinny for the wt he is listed at. I had to post that, like come on Patriot reporters he's not the most athletic guy in the draft at TE. I can see it, I think his body is fine for it. Teams basically don't use fullbacks in college anymore. So if you want one you basically need to develop them. Back in the day draft magazines used to have a section on them but that was a decade ago. Fullback makes more sense than what we currently think of NFL TEs for him. More a new age fullback who can be a weapon in the passing game. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2020 19:48:27 GMT -5
Jeff Thomas is the most interesting prospect but he probably won’t make it thru minicamp. He's certainly the highest rated guy, one draft magazine had him as a 4th round guy. Yet more on ability than production. Kinda surprised they brought in a guy like him. But we need a long-term deep guy. Will Hastings could be a good practice squad guy. Nick Coe was productive in the SEC. We could use a young guy on the D line. Yet I kinda want JJ Taylor to make the team as a return specialist. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 30, 2020 5:45:02 GMT -5
Evan Lazar is doing his best to make me excited about J’Mar Smith. I’ll at least be keeping an eye on him when camp starts.
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Post by ryan24 on Apr 30, 2020 6:17:45 GMT -5
So the draft is in the books. BB does his usual interesting picks. Most EXPERTS grades show it as C C+ draft. What is next? Do the pats look at Dalton? No money available so they would have to wait until after he gets cut? Do they make any cuts or salary restructures to make cap space available? I do not see them anywhere near the SB. But, BB's magic has proven me wrong on more than one occasion. I do not see them in the playoffs and maybe 8-8. I do not see the usual 6 easy wins in the division this year. With Brady gone I do not see a true difference maker to make the big plays when needed. I know piling on a little because Brady is not there anymore. What sunny day things am I missing? Still will watch them as a true blue fan, just wandering what to expect?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 30, 2020 9:10:05 GMT -5
So the draft is in the books. BB does his usual interesting picks. Most EXPERTS grades show it as C C+ draft. What is next? Do the pats look at Dalton? No money available so they would have to wait until after he gets cut? Do they make any cuts or salary restructures to make cap space available? I do not see them anywhere near the SB. But, BB's magic has proven me wrong on more than one occasion. I do not see them in the playoffs and maybe 8-8. I do not see the usual 6 easy wins in the division this year. With Brady gone I do not see a true difference maker to make the big plays when needed. I know piling on a little because Brady is not there anymore. What sunny day things am I missing? Still will watch them as a true blue fan, just wandering what to expect? I see pretty much what you're seeing. Unless Stidham is an instant success I don't see that automatic 5-1 against the rest of the AFC East (they always tripped over Miami once a year). I don't see a great receiving corp or a particularly strong running game. Frankly I think a lot of team have surpassed the Pats and the Pats are nowhere near as good as they once were. I think Brady looked around last year and wondered how the hell that team with so many damn holes in it was 8-0, and he was right. They were 4-5 the rest of the way and have done nothing to really improve the team. I think this team is a lot closer to 4-5 than 8-0, and honestly, unless Stidham is as top notch as Belichick seems to think he can be, they could go 5-11 or something like that during the regular season. I'm not saying that Stidham will necessarily be a huge step down from Brady from last year, but I don't see that he has any more tools to work with than Brady had. Who knows if they get anything out of Sanu? They need Harry and that other young receiver (can't think of his name - Brady didn't trust him) to step up. Not a lot of depth to work with. Who knows if Belichick selected the right tight ends? I don't expect the defense to be as good as it was last season. They have lost some key players. And the kicking game is a question mark at this point. Between Vinatieri and Gostkowski the FG game was quite steady. Who knows if that kicker they drafted is up to the task? They haven't done a stellar job of drafting the past few years and it's starting to show. It could be quite awhile before the Pats are back in the Super Bowl. It could next be when Steve Belichick is the head coach. When it's - just have faith in Belichick, well.....he's certainly earned it, but I don't do blind faith. Hopefully Belichick makes me look foolish (not a difficult thing to do - I'm quite capable of doing that all by myself. lol). Hell, at this point, I just hope we can safely have sports. |
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Post by costpet on Apr 30, 2020 10:39:22 GMT -5
Well said.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 30, 2020 11:04:31 GMT -5
Thanks. As predicted, Andy Dalton has been released and there are rumors that the Pats are going to pick him up although they'd have to free up some money. Let the short lived Andy Dalton era begin (with the idea that he'd buy Stidham another year of development.) I'm being slightly facetious. There's a real chance he winds up in Jacksonville instead. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 30, 2020 13:10:57 GMT -5
So much comes down to last year's draft class, which experts really liked. It's hard to remember because of injuries and the fact you got so little from it last year. Yet if it's as good as I thought, it could be the game changer they need.
Don't sleep on the fact Stidham can make plays in the running game. That literally will be a massive difference. It's not hard to imagine Stidham leading an offence that is better than last year's team because it was so bad last year!
We lose tons of talent every year and people think we are done. Yet with Brady now gone it's like many now buy it. I sure don't!
Think early 2000 teams, strong D, focus on the running game and let Stidham make plays, not try and win games.
I didn't like the value of the 2020 draft. Yet I think people might be letting that cloud there judgement on its impact. It could be one of the most impactful drafts in recent memory. Add that to the 2019 class and you could get a boost of two draft classes all at once.
The interesting part is how they free up money. They need money just to sign draft picks.
Going to predict 10-6 right now, but I feel there is upside there. I really do. Let's not forget a lot went wrong last year.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 30, 2020 13:52:42 GMT -5
Agree with UMass here (with one slight exception - or clarification to be precise).
First the clarification. According to Miguel (PatsCap), the Pats have just enough money to sign their draft class (depending on the value of Lee's contract). It's tight but doable.
That being said, that would leave them 0 money to work the league year (players 52 and 53, cushion for injury replacements, etc). It also means they wouldn't be able to add any new players before training camp (or, at least, anyone making more than the bottom of the Top 51). You could certainly see room for small upgrades (a more proven swing T and someone who can back up Andrews unless you believe Froholdt will get reps there or Woodard makes the team). And that speaks nothing of more significant upgrades like a pass rusher.
But I agree with UMass. They just need to win games differently and they have an infusion of talent (I'd argue that there are still gains to be made from the 2018 class given Wynn's health. I haven't written off Michel improving either as many thought he'd breakout last year and it's possible the health of the Oline contributed to that not happening - or he just is what he is but . . .)
While we may disagree on the details regarding the value of the draft (I have further thoughts on this but they are all over the place right now), there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between bad value and bad players. By most accounts, they got at least 4 players who should be regular contributors (starters or "package" players) to a good (or better) team. That's a good injection of talent and might be selling the class short. Could they have gotten more? That's where the discussion over the value comes in.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Apr 30, 2020 14:05:23 GMT -5
The huge variable is the pandemic. If the season doesn't resemble a normal NFL season anything can happen. If the season resembles a normal NFL season, I'd project the Patriots for between 8-11 wins. Of their 8 home games, only two project as superior teams, so I'd predict 6-2 at home. On the road, 6 of the games project to be winnable, so I'll say they go 3-5 on the road for a 9-7 record. For specifics: they'll beat the Jets, Chargers, and Rams on the road and at home they'll beat the Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Cardinals, and Broncos. A 9-7 record would be fringy for a division winner, but it'd give them a 4-2 division record so it'd likely come down to tiebreakers with the Bills (and it could/should be good enough to make the new 7th seed if not). If somehow Stidham proves to be more than a game manager and is a solidly above average QB year 1, with good team health I'd expect 11-5 (which is really good considering this year's tough schedule). Given there's still time to add pieces, I wouldn't be surprised if prediction bumps up to 10-6 before the season starts.
Looking at last year's results, if they had Hoyer or an average game manager they probably would've gone 11-5 instead of 12-4. You can really only argue Brady's performance was essential for one win, and that's the second Bills game (and that's generous considering the defense allowed only 17 points at home, QB's should win that game, but I give extra credit for that supporting cast). Then again, you can look at the Miami and KC losses and wonder if it'd be a win if Brady had been just a bit better, so it works both ways.
People discredit Cassel's 11-5 year because it came after the 16-0 year. That's true, but it ignores the following year when Brady went 10-6 with at least the same quality (if not better) offensive cast as Cassel had the year before. Cassel only lost 5 games: 3 were squarely on the defense, 1 was an OT loss (again, squarely on the defense, the offense didn't touch the ball in OT) despite Cassel being their leading rusher, throwing for 400 yards, and throwing a clutch late game tying TD. Only one loss that year (vs. IND) can be put on Cassel, and it's easier to point blame in Brady's direction for specific losses in 09 than Cassel in 08. Despite saying all of that, Brady was better in 09 than Cassel was in 08, and the point is people can overrate the importance of the QB to an individual season's W-L record. Last year, Brady just wasn't essential to the team's W-L record, so losing him isn't as big of a challenge as it would be if this was a team led by its passing offense. Even without Brady, the passing offense shouldn't be much worse than last year (and it could actually be better, even if Stidham won't be as good as Brady was last year).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 30, 2020 15:48:54 GMT -5
I guess it depends what space the Patriots actually have. Reports are all over the place from under a million to just over two million. The amount needed for rookies is the difference from the lowest guys. So trading down in the first saved us a ton of money. Yet Duggar alone will be like $800,000 extra, they have five picks that will use up cap space. Even Keene will cost a few hundred thousand over the lowest guy. After him you wouldn't use anything because of the top 51 rule.
Yet even if they can sign the rookies you need money for the practice squad and Patriots usually spend big on that compared to other teams. They have to create a few million in space some how.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 30, 2020 15:52:53 GMT -5
They can free up almost 4m by turning Masons guaranteed salary this year into a bonus and spreading the cap hit. Basically, it’s very easy for them to free up some dough.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 30, 2020 16:00:03 GMT -5
Some ways to create cap space from Miguel
Extending Thuney - ~6M
Trade/Release Cannon - ~5.2 (better have another plan at RT though)
Extend Hightower - ~5
Extend Gilmore - ~4
Convert Shaq - Closer to 3 per Miguel
Restructure Sanu - ?
Cut Burkhead - ~2M (wouldn't have much of a backup for White as the 3rd down back).
Those are the big ones. Plenty of smaller savings with younger players replacing veterans.
EDIT - Forgot Eluemnuor who they can release at a savings of over $2M
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Post by texs31 on Apr 30, 2020 16:06:23 GMT -5
I guess it depends what space the Patriots actually have. Reports are all over the place from under a million to just over two million. The amount needed for rookies is the difference from the lowest guys. So trading down in the first saved us a ton of money. Yet Duggar alone will be like $800,000 extra, they have five picks that will use up cap space. Even Keene will cost a few hundred thousand over the lowest guy. After him you wouldn't use anything because of the top 51 rule. Yet even if they can sign the rookies you need money for the practice squad and Patriots usually spend big on that compared to other teams. They have to create a few million in space some how. I think Miguel's $1.67M is about 25K off from the NFLPA number so I go with that. Doesn't include Lee's deal (which I wouldn't expect to be big). 100% on PS money. Probably should've been on my list as more than just "etc" given how they tend to spend there (as you point out). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2020 1:33:59 GMT -5
So Lee must of signed a veteran minimum deal, which only shows how overpaid Sanu is. Has there been a worst trade?
I mean add Mims to our draft class and things look really good. People say Brady took off after looking at the roster but his dead money and the trade for the guy he wanted, plus the Brown money is a huge reason for this mess!
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Post by rjp313jr on May 1, 2020 5:02:20 GMT -5
So Lee must of signed a veteran minimum deal, which only shows how overpaid Sanu is. Has there been a worst trade? I mean add Mims to our draft class and things look really good. People say Brady took off after looking at the roster but his dead money and the trade for the guy he wanted, plus the Brown money is a huge reason for this mess! Brady’s dead money helped them stay competitive - it’s been building for a while. They were always going to need a cap reset year and soon so making it coincide with Brady’s departure is a very smart move. You get Stidham’s rookie salary to balance it all out. Honestly, the offensive line issues were the biggest problems last year. Their left guard was the only healthy player all year. Mason was a shell playing thru injuries and Cannon was as well. It killed the run game and gave the passing game no time. Obviously, QB is the most important position but right behind that is offensive line. It makes or breaks the offense. I’m not saying the skill positions were very good but if they got the same line play last year as they did the previous one, you might be talking Super Bowl. |
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