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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 26, 2020 19:51:17 GMT -5
That's last year's draft haha. Grading out individual picks you can get A's because the pick seems to be rated against the pick # versus the prospect's rating going into the draft. 50'th pick in the draft and the guy was rated 40th on the overall prospect list . They added what appears to be OK players who can play at the pro level but no difference makers. Just an opinion. Like what was said before wait 2 to 3 years down the road to score the strength of this draft. I get the feeling that we are looking at a long season, assuming it is played. This team has a lot of aging players, a ton of dead money for 2020-2021 season and doesn't appear to be much better than an 8-8 team. I liken this to instead of getting the sexy player, they got a number of moderately attractive with a good personality. Maybe Ucher or someone else becomes a star player. They have a number of guys with tremendous upside, but lack a floor. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 2:41:44 GMT -5
Chung has missed four games in two years, not sure I'd say he was always hurt. Also Phillips one of there bigger free agent signings added depth there. It really wasn't a need for this year. I like drafting guys a year early, but they used their top pick also. I mean our 2nd year CB could have taken Harmon's role. It would have at least given him a role. I don't mind the pick and we do need a long-term safety. Yet you can also ask the question should they have picked someone else in the second round and went safety later. It didn't make my top five for needs for this year and they invested the most draft capital in it. Not surprising, yet I get questioning it also. There’s a reason I listed the safety who was drafted first near the end of my needs list. It was a long term roster need not a short term one. But getting younger at safety to replace their starters is a legitimate long-term need and they’ll need 2 of them sooner than later so staggering the replacements makes a lot of sense. Chung next year (get his now), McCourty in 2 years (they’ll likely draft his next year). On Chungs injuries: That’s fair, but it’s also fair to say he was injured most of last year: Missed week 5 Left week 6 in first half- 8 snaps Missed week 7 Week 9 only played 40% of the snaps Week 10 was bye week (would have missed it) Missed week 11 Left week 12 early Left playoff game early. He was banged up all year last year - but yes he’d been fairly durable until then despite the 2018 concision and super bowl broken arm. I would have been fine not taking a safety, but going forward having a top safety is a big long term need. It’s just not a 2020 need. They got killed last year in that playoff game with Brooks in coverage so if they fixed that with this pick it’s actually a short term need as well. Got killed in coverage with Brooks in the playoffs? Did we watch the same game? They gave up like 72 yards passing. I agree with most of the rest, yet that's why they needed a young safety. They didn't have to use their top pick on one. They could resign Chung, add another Veteran as a free agent or trade for a guy. Bill is going to have to spend more higher picks on offense. I mean he went D for three picks, then offense. The league is getting crazy, the Chiefs added more, the Ravens after taking two high WRs last year added three more. Bill loves his offensive lineman, but doesn't draft many offensive skill players frankly in general. He could have taken a safety or TE last year in the 2nd round also. Williams better be a very good player if he can ever get playing time. That pick kinda highlights what can happen when you use high picks at positions where you don't have huge needs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 2:45:14 GMT -5
That's last year's draft haha. Grading out individual picks you can get A's because the pick seems to be rated against the pick # versus the prospect's rating going into the draft. 50'th pick in the draft and the guy was rated 40th on the overall prospect list . They added what appears to be OK players who can play at the pro level but no difference makers. Just an opinion. Like what was said before wait 2 to 3 years down the road to score the strength of this draft. I get the feeling that we are looking at a long season, assuming it is played. Drafts are basically graded by quality starters. If they added a bunch of those I'm happy. BTW how do you know? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 2:48:48 GMT -5
Grading out individual picks you can get A's because the pick seems to be rated against the pick # versus the prospect's rating going into the draft. 50'th pick in the draft and the guy was rated 40th on the overall prospect list . They added what appears to be OK players who can play at the pro level but no difference makers. Just an opinion. Like what was said before wait 2 to 3 years down the road to score the strength of this draft. I get the feeling that we are looking at a long season, assuming it is played. This team has a lot of aging players, a ton of dead money for 2020-2021 season and doesn't appear to be much better than an 8-8 team. I liken this to instead of getting the sexy player, they got a number of moderately attractive with a good personality. Maybe Ucher or someone else becomes a star player. They have a number of guys with tremendous upside, but lack a floor. Do they have a ton of aging players? I mean every team has older players, but I certainly don't look at this team and think it's old. It actually looks crazy young overall. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2020 5:47:33 GMT -5
Didn’t Brooks give up the TD pass late that basically sealed the game and I’m pretty sure he was in coverage for at least one or 2 other key conversions. Basically, when they needed something they went at him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2020 5:51:43 GMT -5
This roster is pretty young now. It feels oldEr because of McCourty, Chung and Hightower. Hightower is only 30 though, whereas they other 2 will basically be 33 when the season starts. Plus, Edelman is old now.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2020 6:13:17 GMT -5
I was wrong Chung has 2 years left on his deal. This year is a big transition year. Transition doesn’t mean they it will be a tank year or non-competitive year; Bill would never tank and tanking kills a teams ability to turn it around. Football relies on culture and you kill your culture when you aren’t trying even for just a short time. Keeping McCourty this year and next is as much about keeping a wining Patriot here as it is about his play. They have $24m in dead cap this year - due to trying to exhaust resources to win in Brady’s last years.
Next year they are project to have $94m in free agency with the following key free agents:
Thuney
Hightower
White
Jason McCourty
Sanu
Guy
Butler
Burkhead
Andrews
Simon
Devlin
Wise
Rivers
JC Jackson (restricted)
I mean we will see how the season goes, but the key free agents seem to be Thuney, Hightower, White, Guy and Jackson. Hopefully, they extend Thuney this offseason. White is getting older and they may just let him go. Hightower, will be the interesting one. I could see him retiring, but if not, I’d like to keep him for another year or 2 to help keep the “Patriot Way” going. Could be worth a McCourty short term overpay. Guy, is interesting as he seemed to really continue his breakout last year - this is a big year for him.
No matter how you slice it though, the Patriots will be major players in both free agency and the trade market with a ton of cap space to work with.
So really, what I want to see this year is Stidham to show us he’s on his way to being the next guy, other young guys develop (like the last 3 rookie classes), with an emphasis on;
1. Harry
2. Wynn
3. Bentley
4. Wino
5. Williams
6. This years rookies
And the team to be really competitive. I’d love to win the AFC East but a wild card birth would be ok.
Side note: watch Cleveland this year - if there’s more turmoil and OBJ isn’t happy, he will be a Patriot with his very manageable cap hits of 14.5, 13.75 and 13.75 for 2021-23.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 27, 2020 8:03:13 GMT -5
overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-period-nears-its-end/List of FA who lose comp-formula burden today at 4pm. I'd love to see the Pats add Rashaad Higgins to the WR room; he's young and might do better outside the turd-factory in Cleveland. Lots of quality RBs and CBs available, though I doubt the latter is a priority right now. As far as draft goes, PFF put out a good article on "sign FA for need, draft for value" because so few draft picks have any impact year 1 anyway. So the "need" discussion shouldn't be part of the draft. Now, did they get value? They obviously got the safety they wanted the most and likely the TEs they wanted the most at the top. They got the kicker they wanted the most. The team evaluators obviously got the value they wanted. I guess we'll see whether this ends up being another low-impact draft or this plus growth/health from last year's crop can really set up the org for the post-Brady era.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2020 9:23:17 GMT -5
Don’t forget this is a big year for the 2018 draft as well... Wynn, Bentley and Sony can all be legitimate difference makers.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 27, 2020 10:07:32 GMT -5
On a positive note I saw that Uche had the highest % of pressures in all of college football last year at 22.5%. Given he was a situational player that helps him but still a big positive.
I think with BB coaching and the talent level they can still compete for the division. Alot depends on Stidham and they did lose a lot in FA but it is still a good roster. As someone else pointed out, they need the 2nd and 3rd year players to make the jump to stand out performers. It is a strong list of players that could really flourish all over the field and really need to.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2020 15:24:45 GMT -5
Reading a couple comments by Reiss and some other depth charts, it seems like the hope for Uche and Jennings is to replace Collins and Van Noy, respectively. So Uche at ILB and OLB and Jennings at OLB and Edge.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2020 15:29:22 GMT -5
Reiss' post draft wrap up had some comments from Caserio that "explained" the trade up for the K. It was a reminder of what we'd heard before . . . that the Pats have a smaller board than most. There was a suggestion that there was concern they wouldn't be able to use all of their picks so they were okay combining them to move up to get the kicker they wanted.
The idea of running out of players seems odd (given that they are signing all of these UDFAs, one would think they would've just drafted them). Maybe they legitimately thought that if they had to make the rest of their Day 3 picks, all of the guys they picked AND their UDFAs would've been drafted by other teams, leaving nobody for them to take??? Seems a bit odd but . . .
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2020 15:32:03 GMT -5
Oh and some further transactions as Keionta Davis and Obi Melifonwu have been released and James Devlin has retired. Wonder if BB had an idea given the signing of Dan Vitale.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 17:07:32 GMT -5
Didn’t Brooks give up the TD pass late that basically sealed the game and I’m pretty sure he was in coverage for at least one or 2 other key conversions. Basically, when they needed something they went at him. Nope, pick six by Logan Ryan. The biggest conversion was that screen to Henry late and that's not a coverage play in my book. I don't disagree he sucks. It's just the D gave up 14 points and we could only score 13. Which kinda highlights why people could be upset with our top three picks being on D. Bill is kinda saying Brady was the issue not the talent. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 17:36:50 GMT -5
overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-period-nears-its-end/List of FA who lose comp-formula burden today at 4pm. I'd love to see the Pats add Rashaad Higgins to the WR room; he's young and might do better outside the turd-factory in Cleveland. Lots of quality RBs and CBs available, though I doubt the latter is a priority right now. As far as draft goes, PFF put out a good article on "sign FA for need, draft for value" because so few draft picks have any impact year 1 anyway. So the "need" discussion shouldn't be part of the draft. Now, did they get value? They obviously got the safety they wanted the most and likely the TEs they wanted the most at the top. They got the kicker they wanted the most. The team evaluators obviously got the value they wanted. I guess we'll see whether this ends up being another low-impact draft or this plus growth/health from last year's crop can really set up the org for the post-Brady era. Why not bring in Lee? Also go get Hyde please, he's the perfect big RB to go with Michel. Overall kinda amazing how much talent is still on the board at this point. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2020 18:49:43 GMT -5
Few things, I see the Jennings to Van Noy comp, I don't see the Uche to Collins comp. Collins was a former DB that was a true three down guy from day one. Uche is a part-time college player, mostly rushing the passer. Sure reports say he looks like he can drop back in coverage, but he has hardly done that. The guy has zero interceptions and only two PBU in his career and those were likely on the line while rushing the passer. He's not close to Collins and I don't see how he's an ILB right now. He seems more like Bruce Irvin a pass rushing specialist. Maybe down the road you develop him, yet zero percent chance he can take over for Collins.
Bill adjusts to his talents, we won't do everything the way we did it last year. It's not really these guys replace those guys. More like we have two guys to play OLB.
We really didn't trade up for a kicker right? In the Asiasi trade we gave up 3rd, 4th, 5th, got back a higher third and 5th round pick. I mean they likely traded up for the Michigan guard because they had too many picks, just like last year. Yet that's a huge fricken problem if you have more picks than draftable players. I get having a smaller board, yet your board is way too small if that keeps happening year after year. Why not just take a flyer on some of the highest rated guys? You cut them in camp you lose nothing, yet might gain a ton!
James Devlin retiring fully explains the Keene pick for me. We know how Bill values Fullbacks and Keene would be a good receiver for a fullback. Think Daryl Johnston type guy. A true three down type fullback that can be a weapon unlike Devlin. If that's the plan it makes a lot more sense. Yet I also wish they would have taken another TE.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 27, 2020 21:37:37 GMT -5
Significant difference between comp and filling role. Stidham is expected to fill the role of Tom Brady. Even the biggest Stidham fans aren't comparing him.
Not sure the expectations are even for this season but as eventual roles.
That being said, apparantly Uche showed well at Sr Bowl week in handling the off the ball duties.
Not pretending to be an evaluator. Only reporting what is being said (Reiss, Perry, others).
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 28, 2020 11:20:49 GMT -5
This team has a lot of aging players, a ton of dead money for 2020-2021 season and doesn't appear to be much better than an 8-8 team. I liken this to instead of getting the sexy player, they got a number of moderately attractive with a good personality. Maybe Ucher or someone else becomes a star player. They have a number of guys with tremendous upside, but lack a floor. Do they have a ton of aging players? I mean every team has older players, but I certainly don't look at this team and think it's old. It actually looks crazy young overall. From September of last year: This is even accounting for Brady: And this is the key takeaway: www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/word-wise-patriots-embark-2019-oldest-roster-footballThey needed youth on defense and need their previous drafts to step up. Michel, Harry, Sanu (since they used a 2nd on him), Wynn and to much lesser extent Myers need to be much better in 2020. |
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Post by philarhody on Apr 28, 2020 16:32:54 GMT -5
Speaking of old I almost forgot that Kyle Duggar is 24! Oh my gosh that’s old for a division two player. I recall Jeremiah or Khyber or one of those guys talking about Chin being the better prospect, Because, for one, he’s two years younger
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2020 18:48:01 GMT -5
Significant difference between comp and filling role. Stidham is expected to fill the role of Tom Brady. Even the biggest Stidham fans aren't comparing him. Not sure the expectations are even for this season but as eventual roles. That being said, apparantly Uche showed well at Sr Bowl week in handling the off the ball duties. Not pretending to be an evaluator. Only reporting what is being said (Reiss, Perry, others). I didn't respond directly to your post because I knew you were just passing along information. Almost every Patriot reporter has been on the Collins comp and role train. Now he's an inside LB. It's kinda driving me crazy because Uche is really unlike anyone Bill has ever brought in. He's stayed away from those undersized speed edge rushers like the plague for decades. Let's get creative and think about what Bill will do with one and not try lazy comps and act like he's going to fill a normal role. Let's talk about adding maybe a Vonn Miller type edge rusher. That has to be what Bill is thinking, that's what he did in College. That's why he was drafted, he was a force going after the QB. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2020 19:14:04 GMT -5
Do they have a ton of aging players? I mean every team has older players, but I certainly don't look at this team and think it's old. It actually looks crazy young overall. From September of last year: This is even accounting for Brady: And this is the key takeaway: www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/word-wise-patriots-embark-2019-oldest-roster-footballThey needed youth on defense and need their previous drafts to step up. Michel, Harry, Sanu (since they used a 2nd on him), Wynn and to much lesser extent Myers need to be much better in 2020. The difference from youngest roster to oldest last year was 1.8 years. The huge difference? Bill fills out the bottom of the roster with older veterans, not just rookies. I'm going to guess our special teams unit was by far and away the oldest in the league. Yet does that matter? The younger teams suck, Dolphins were the youngest team, Bengals were a very young team and they won very few games. Look at prime time hard to fill positions and there age, that's what matters. An old QB is a huge worry, most important position. We have a young QB, RB, OTs, our guards are in there primes, young OLB, young WRs, CBs. Long-term worries you need a young FS, DL help unless they resign Butler or Cowart is a force, and a slot WR. That is rather good. You want a mid range team with good veterans in their primes and young guys who can step up. This won't be the oldest team in the league again. Just replacing Brady, Watson and our kicker with young guys will really drop the age. The question is really how good are the young guys, not that they don't have them. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2020 19:19:54 GMT -5
Speaking of old I almost forgot that Kyle Duggar is 24! Oh my gosh that’s old for a division two player. I recall Jeremiah or Khyber or one of those guys talking about Chin being the better prospect, Because, for one, he’s two years younger Not sure what division two has to do with it. He's older for any prospect, he's a redshirt senior. Yet plenty of place had him rate d much higher. I don't really care about his age, but his injury history does worry me. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2020 19:22:18 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2020 19:26:22 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2020 6:14:52 GMT -5
Roster average age is best determined after the season weighted by snaps played and I believe when you do that with last years Patriots you get a defense and offense both over 29... of course the offense was skewed heavily by Brady.
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