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Post by trajanacc on Oct 24, 2020 16:29:07 GMT -5
Simmons was 3rd team all NBA
Simmons has improved a lot since he was a rookie
I love Jaylen but he’s not better than Simmons
And he’s clearly not clearly better.
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Post by philarhody on Oct 24, 2020 19:08:23 GMT -5
Wait, you think Jaylen is clearly better than Ben Simmons? After what Jaylen Brown did in the playoffs, yeah I do. I will admit Brown getting better every year and Simmons not plays a role in that though, fair or not. Simmons is so much more impactful on both ends of the court. Even without shooting. I’m sorry, this is homerism. It’s become clear to me that this board has massively overrated Brown. So let me break this down. I like Jaylen Brown a lot. He’s a good third or fourth option on a finals team. But he cannot create his own shot. Like at all. And he definitely cannot create shots for others. Those are the hardest skills in the NBA to find. And Ben Simmons does them at 6’10 with plus athleticism. Edit: And I can break down why Kemba Walker being untradable is just as ridiculous. But I’ll save it. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 24, 2020 20:25:27 GMT -5
Jaylen Brown can create his own shot, he's not elite but he's not a zero at it either.
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Post by philarhody on Oct 24, 2020 21:15:29 GMT -5
Creating your own shot doesn’t involve getting a pass on the wing as a secondary with the defense in recovery or out of transition.
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Post by philarhody on Oct 24, 2020 21:16:49 GMT -5
I was a little underwhelmed and sad to see the list of players Danny had interviewed. Love this guys attitude and mentality and the shot looks so good in this workout.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2020 1:05:45 GMT -5
Simmons was 3rd team all NBA Simmons has improved a lot since he was a rookie I love Jaylen but he’s not better than Simmons And he’s clearly not clearly better. 15.8 points, 8.1 rebounds, 8.2 assists, 1.7 steals and .9 blocks a game his rookie year, 16.4, 7.8, 8.0, 2.1 and .6 is his total this year. As far as counting stats go you'd be hard pressed to find another player with so little variation in his numbers from year one to year three in the NBA. Heck his second year is almost exactly the same. Sure he's gotten a little better at a few things, yet no major jumps at all. Brown is the same age, he went from 14.5, 4.9, 1.6, 1.0 and .4 to 20.3, 6.4, 2.1, 1.1 and .4 He just averaged 21.8, 7.5, 2.3, 1.5 and .5 in 17 playoff games, second best box scores on the team to Tatum. My view and I'm sure most won't agree is Brown just broke out. Started year #4 as offensive option, just ended as the #2 guy. He's a guy who was Raw and they have brought him along slow. Put him on a team without Tatum, Walker and before the playoffs Hayward, then watch what he does. He does what the coach asks and as a result he blends in. Call it the James Harden on the Thunder stuff, Jermaine O'Neil on Portland, Leonard on the Spurs early on. I'm not trading Brown for Simmons, it's not even close. Lack of shooting at PG is a killer in today's NBA, I don't see Simmons taking a big jump without a jumper. Yes I know a bunch of advanced stats will show Simmons makes more of an impact. I think a big part of that is what his team asks him to do versus what Boston asks of Brown. Just my two cents |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2020 1:35:36 GMT -5
After what Jaylen Brown did in the playoffs, yeah I do. I will admit Brown getting better every year and Simmons not plays a role in that though, fair or not. Simmons is so much more impactful on both ends of the court. Even without shooting. I’m sorry, this is homerism. It’s become clear to me that this board has massively overrated Brown. So let me break this down. I like Jaylen Brown a lot. He’s a good third or fourth option on a finals team. But he cannot create his own shot. Like at all. And he definitely cannot create shots for others. Those are the hardest skills in the NBA to find. And Ben Simmons does them at 6’10 with plus athleticism. Edit: And I can break down why Kemba Walker being untradable is just as ridiculous. But I’ll save it. In his current role, stats might show that. Have them switch teams and that would change in my opinion. Though that is a projection. I'd take Brown over Simmons as my #2 all day long. I really think you're docking him because of the role he's asked to play. Saying Jaylen Brown can't create his own shot, like at all is something. How do a put this nicely, not even in the ballpark? I don't really know what to say about that other than it's 100% not true. Like even Semi, Grant and Robert Williams can create a little bit of offense. Not much, yet they thrown in a few surprises. What do you call Brown driving and scoring in the paint? His crazy nice looking turn around jumper he's been using in the paint this year? A steal for a jam is creating offense. The question has never been can Brown create his own offense. It's at what level and he was darn good in the playoffs. I'm not docking a guy because he has three all-stars also on the team and Celtics Basketball is move the ball, take your shots in the offense. Go throw him on a team like the Pistons or Magic and watch what he does. It's amazing how much more skill he has than two years ago. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2020 1:56:38 GMT -5
I was a little underwhelmed and sad to see the list of players Danny had interviewed. Love this guys attitude and mentality and the shot looks so good in this workout. Last year they interviewed 18 guys at combine, Langford, Williams and Edwards were on it. So that list seems likely incomplete, not enough guys rated around 14. Yet I'd pay attention to them. I love Maxey. We'll have to see who they use there ten workouts on. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 25, 2020 5:47:01 GMT -5
A few things so I don’t reply to a million posts:
1. I see both sides of the Brown and Simmons argument on who’s better or who you’d rather have.
2. No one said Kemba was untradable, just that there was a 0% chance he’s traded. There’s a difference.
3. Jaylen Brown can create his own shot. I don’t think that’s debatable at this time. His signature move seems to be the one where he gets to his spot at the free throw line and pulls up. It’s basically automatic. And he beats plenty of people off the dribble and can eurostep around them.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 25, 2020 5:54:47 GMT -5
The draft is so close to the start of the season - it’s going to be weird and the more I think about it. This is bad for rookies.
It’s a very short free agent period too so will be interesting on how that affects decisions from players. Does it mean more bargains available for short deals like the Kanter one plus a PO?
From a Celtics perspective the condensed season could be bad. If they stack the games in division the Atlantic is stacked and it gives a lot less rest time for Kemba....
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 25, 2020 7:28:05 GMT -5
Simmons was 3rd team all NBA Simmons has improved a lot since he was a rookie I love Jaylen but he’s not better than Simmons And he’s clearly not clearly better. Simmons will never be elite until he can hit jumpers from 10-15 ft out. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 25, 2020 12:02:13 GMT -5
Regarding Simmons... do we think he even attempts to work on his jump shot in the offseason?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2020 13:28:53 GMT -5
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Post by philarhody on Oct 25, 2020 15:43:41 GMT -5
I don’t like him. Mentality seems soft. Shooting percentage isn’t great. Not very dominant at community college level. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2020 23:10:12 GMT -5
I don’t like him. Mentality seems soft. Shooting percentage isn’t great. Not very dominant at community college level. He sounds a lot like Brown. High level explosive athlete, has strength, very good driver, good finisher, can finish at rim at high level, can score at all three levels. Yet raw, inconsistent shooting, not a crazy high Basketball IQ at the moment. 6'6" , 6'9" wingspan, 220 pounds. If Danny like him, thinks he has the drive to get better, reach his potential, I have no issues. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2020 12:59:09 GMT -5
The draft is so close to the start of the season - it’s going to be weird and the more I think about it. This is bad for rookies. It’s a very short free agent period too so will be interesting on how that affects decisions from players. Does it mean more bargains available for short deals like the Kanter one plus a PO? From a Celtics perspective the condensed season could be bad. If they stack the games in division the Atlantic is stacked and it gives a lot less rest time for Kemba.... Keith Smith tweeted that there are rumors some FAs have already agreed with teams. Even if true, the definition of "agreed" could be very loose. I think it is very reasonable to assume that with tight (and, really, unknown timelines) some players and their agents are ignoring the tampering rules (even more than normally) to make sure they(their clients) don't get left out. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2020 13:10:19 GMT -5
My offseason wish list is fairly simple. First, 2 caveats:
1. I've had an obsession with Harry Giles ever since he was projected to #1 overall prior to his injury-depleted freshman year.
2. I don't consider myself an expert in NBA Talent evaluation
3. Even if I did, I have had precious little time to watch C's games let alone other teams
Given 2 and 3, please always revert to 1. And so . . .
- Work to get Kanter and Poirier off the books (to a point). Don't go crazy. IF you are offering a 1st pick as bribery, I hope an early 2nd comes back. Hopefully, the latest predictions that Kanter opts out are correct and you can dump Poirier easily enough.
- Draft a wing or combo guard with 14; make 1 of the late 1st rounders (even if it's on someone like Bolmaro) while using the 3rd for future benefit (the idea above or a future 1st - which would certainly have fairly heavy protection)
- Sign Giles using you exception.
Not saying that's enough to push you to the next level (but none of these moves really prevent you from making a subsequent move that does) and, again, none of it is based on any rigorous analysis.
EDIT - I guess another caveat is that I don't know how to count. 3 caveats (unless you want to combine 2 and 3).
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Post by philarhody on Oct 26, 2020 21:10:17 GMT -5
I don’t like him. Mentality seems soft. Shooting percentage isn’t great. Not very dominant at community college level. He sounds a lot like Brown. High level explosive athlete, has strength, very good driver, good finisher, can finish at rim at high level, can score at all three levels. Yet raw, inconsistent shooting, not a crazy high Basketball IQ at the moment. 6'6" , 6'9" wingspan, 220 pounds. If Danny like him, thinks he has the drive to get better, reach his potential, I have no issues. Brown has always been mentally strong. He was taking graduate level courses as a freshman at Cal. Brown has always been a high level explosive athlete. Scrubb is more like slightly above average for an NBA wing. I think Scrubb closer to James Young as a prospect than Jaylen Brown. I’m a little concerned with Danny’s decision making in this draft. This roster is maxed out and the draft capital is almost dried up. He needs to nail any and all picks. No Carsen Edwards. No Guerschon Yabusele. Don’t get cute with fit. Get the best players available. Trade into next year if you can. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2020 21:34:54 GMT -5
So drafting Yabu (for the sole reason of being able to stash him to get Hayward) and Edwards (who, as #33 pick, needs to improve a hair to out perform most players taken at that spot or beyond) makes you question his decision making?
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 5:02:10 GMT -5
He hasn’t been perfect, but no one is. I feel like Danny has done very well in the draft overall. I’d trade Edwards to free up a roster spot if you needed one, but I can also see him developing into a microwave scorer still. Don’t get me wrong, he was terrible last year but that doesn’t mean he won’t get his confidence and be better
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Post by texs31 on Oct 27, 2020 5:46:36 GMT -5
He hasn’t been perfect, but no one is. I feel like Danny has done very well in the draft overall. I’d trade Edwards to free up a roster spot if you needed one, but I can also see him developing into a microwave scorer still. Don’t get me wrong, he was terrible last year but that doesn’t mean he won’t get his confidence and be better Yeah. Just feel like James Young and RJ Hunter would be better examples than a 2nd rd pick and a "cap saver" |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 5:53:54 GMT -5
BRobb, had a great breakdown, last week, of why Turner is a bad fit for the Celtics to target. This week he had a few Hayward trade ideas. What the exercise continued to show is that there’s not much out there without getting into more complicated sign and trades. This one was interesting to me: Dallas Mavericks: Hayward for Tim Hardaway Jr. and Seth Curry Overview: This is probably my favorite trade destination for Hayward if he simply opts in. With Luka Doncic moving into MVP candidate territory, they are firmly in win now mode and a versatile wing is high on their list of needs. Acquiring Hayward also wouldn’t impact their ability to sign a star long-term to pair with Doncic. Hardaway Jr. is a solid (albeit inferior) player compared to Hayward on both ends of the court but the C’s could nab a valuable bench shooter in Seth Curry for their trouble or another solid bench player or two (Dorian Finney-Smith, Maxi Kleber, Jalen Brunson) under team control for the next 2-3 seasons to bolster the bench. www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/10/27/examining-five-realistic-gordon-hayward-trade-scenarios/ |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 6:00:12 GMT -5
He hasn’t been perfect, but no one is. I feel like Danny has done very well in the draft overall. I’d trade Edwards to free up a roster spot if you needed one, but I can also see him developing into a microwave scorer still. Don’t get me wrong, he was terrible last year but that doesn’t mean he won’t get his confidence and be better Yeah. Just feel like James Young and RJ Hunter would be better examples than a 2nd rd pick and a "cap saver" Right and even those 2: That James Young draft was a weak draft; I wanted Harris at that point so I feel ok second guessing him. It’s the same draft they got Smart who people still pan at “not good enough for a 6th overall pick”. Ignoring the strength of the draft. But RJ Hunter was a late 1st and nothing much else was drafted after him. Definitely a few NBA guys but again we are spitting hairs at that point. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 27, 2020 8:34:28 GMT -5
Pretty sure the usual suspects on this board know this but for any lurkers out there, Ryan Bernardoni (@dangercart) broke down the potential cap situations in light of Zack Lowe's comments that (paraphrasing) there is a "buzz" out there with Hayward.
Basically, even if Hayward opts out, it's likely the C's would stay as a capped team unless a series of OTHER things were to happen (Kanter opts out and the cap comes in higher than expected). For example (stealing his):
If Hayward/Kanter opt out, Boston COULD use 30 to move Poirier for a 2nd, waive Green and Semi, stash 26 and let Wanamaker walk (retain Theis though). If the cap:
- Is at 110, it's better to have MLE (9.3M) and RME (4.8M)
- Is at 115, it's better to have the space (12.2M) and RME (5.0M)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2020 8:46:33 GMT -5
He sounds a lot like Brown. High level explosive athlete, has strength, very good driver, good finisher, can finish at rim at high level, can score at all three levels. Yet raw, inconsistent shooting, not a crazy high Basketball IQ at the moment. 6'6" , 6'9" wingspan, 220 pounds. If Danny like him, thinks he has the drive to get better, reach his potential, I have no issues. Brown has always been mentally strong. He was taking graduate level courses as a freshman at Cal. Brown has always been a high level explosive athlete. Scrubb is more like slightly above average for an NBA wing. I think Scrubb closer to James Young as a prospect than Jaylen Brown. I’m a little concerned with Danny’s decision making in this draft. This roster is maxed out and the draft capital is almost dried up. He needs to nail any and all picks. No Carsen Edwards. No Guerschon Yabusele. Don’t get cute with fit. Get the best players available. Trade into next year if you can. So you think IQ equals mentally strong? Brown has always been crazy smart, I don't think he's always been mentally strong during games and things like his Basketball IQ are still playing catch-up to Tatum. Take Brown throwing up his arms and hitting himself on the head during the playoffs, something we had a lot more of in his early years. His missed assignments on that Lowry pass. How can you tell if a guy is mentally strong watching one highlight tape? You judging that off of his CC status? Scrubb's looks like a crazy athlete based on that tape and the scouting reports I've seen. James Young was an explosive athlete, he just lacked power. James Young also didn't play 100%, never had NBA level strength, wasn't good at driving and certainly wasn't great at finishing. He was more of a shooter. It didn't work out, yet I have zero issues with that pick. No GM is perfect and Young was easily one of the best high upsides guys left on the board at that point. I don't have any issues when he takes one of the best high upside guys no matter what happens. A guy like Langford. Now taking a guy like Grant Williams is a different story, passing on Clarke looks like a horrible move. I think Danny is one of the best drafters in modern history. You can't expect 100% success rates. I have zero issues with the Edwards pick, it's a second rounder. He's nailed every high pick he's had, his misses are mid to late first round. Yet those picks likely fail at close to a 75% rate. Yabu was bad as he wasn't close to best upside guy available. You 100% don't want that again, yet that was one pick and their was a reason. I'm 100% take best player at 14. If you make the next two I think you can go after need in this draft, everyone is so close that it doesn't really matter. Given the roster it would be impossible to take best available at every spot unless you got crazy lucky. I'd trade the pick for another pick or player before taking the next Yabu though. |
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