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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2020 15:08:34 GMT -5
It's actually not surprising given the amount of time they have had to get ready no? Normally it's a few months if that, now they've had like eight months. That's a lot of time, yet yeah overall all the numbers we've seen have been good. I want numbers on Carey who reports say has already lost 20 plus pounds.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2020 15:52:06 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 3, 2020 16:28:26 GMT -5
Do you think Maxey can develop to run the point? I’d be all in on Oturu at the end of the first - based on this board I’d rather they take Green to Hughes. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2020 17:16:13 GMT -5
All depends what you mean by run the point right? Guys like Smart, Rozier and Walker versus like a true point guard? I can see the former, not the latter. He'll always likely be more scorer than true PG, yet I don't see an Avery Bradley type guy either.
If your going best player available, guy with best upside I agree Green is that guy. Yet given this team and all of our picks I'm determined to add one of the many great shooters in this draft. So I would look at need over best player available and gamble on Hughes or a guy like Isiah Joe. Guys that are shooters and scorers which the bench needs. Guys that match up with Langford.
My biggest worry is still Anthony and Maxey being gone at 14. That might seem crazy given current mocks, yet that would change everything for me. Those are guys that can help day one, be rotation pieces next year. Other guys could be more like Langford. Which greatly changes how you look at building the team.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 3, 2020 18:35:04 GMT -5
All depends what you mean by run the point right? Guys like Smart, Rozier and Walker versus like a true point guard? I can see the former, not the latter. He'll always likely be more scorer than true PG, yet I don't see an Avery Bradley type guy either. If your going best player available, guy with best upside I agree Green is that guy. Yet given this team and all of our picks I'm determined to add one of the many great shooters in this draft. So I would look at need over best player available and gamble on Hughes or a guy like Isiah Joe. Guys that are shooters and scorers which the bench needs. Guys that match up with Langford. My biggest worry is still Anthony and Maxey being gone at 14. That might seem crazy given current mocks, yet that would change everything for me. Those are guys that can help day one, be rotation pieces next year. Other guys could be more like Langford. Which greatly changes how you look at building the team. I just don’t want a small SG. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2020 20:40:58 GMT -5
Maxey is 200 pounds 6'3" 6-6" wingspan. He's much more like Smart than Kemba or say Avery Bradley. He plays a physical game on offense and D, one of the big reasons I love him. Him playing SG wouldn't be a big issue, yet I think he'd be just fine as a PG in the Celtics offense. 3.2 assists as a freshman playing SG is rather good. He certainly will need to improve in certain areas, yet that's true for every player. He's not just a smaller version of Nesmith, he shows legit ability to create for himself and other players.
I slightly favor Anthony due to his upside. If he goes to the right team he could easily be one of if not the best player from this draft. Maxey doesn't have that upside, yet his floor is likely higher. Maxey is the safest guy that still has very good upside in my book. Three level scorer and I really think Maxey will be a good shooter in the NBA. I don't think Kentucky did him any favors.
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Post by philarhody on Nov 4, 2020 6:42:28 GMT -5
All depends what you mean by run the point right? Guys like Smart, Rozier and Walker versus like a true point guard? I can see the former, not the latter. He'll always likely be more scorer than true PG, yet I don't see an Avery Bradley type guy either. If your going best player available, guy with best upside I agree Green is that guy. Yet given this team and all of our picks I'm determined to add one of the many great shooters in this draft. So I would look at need over best player available and gamble on Hughes or a guy like Isiah Joe. Guys that are shooters and scorers which the bench needs. Guys that match up with Langford. My biggest worry is still Anthony and Maxey being gone at 14. That might seem crazy given current mocks, yet that would change everything for me. Those are guys that can help day one, be rotation pieces next year. Other guys could be more like Langford. Which greatly changes how you look at building the team. Anthony is probably going to be there. Although I really don’t think the value is there at 14. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 4, 2020 11:32:46 GMT -5
I love the reports that Hayward wants out of his contract... umm it’s his option idiots.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 15:19:41 GMT -5
All depends what you mean by run the point right? Guys like Smart, Rozier and Walker versus like a true point guard? I can see the former, not the latter. He'll always likely be more scorer than true PG, yet I don't see an Avery Bradley type guy either. If your going best player available, guy with best upside I agree Green is that guy. Yet given this team and all of our picks I'm determined to add one of the many great shooters in this draft. So I would look at need over best player available and gamble on Hughes or a guy like Isiah Joe. Guys that are shooters and scorers which the bench needs. Guys that match up with Langford. My biggest worry is still Anthony and Maxey being gone at 14. That might seem crazy given current mocks, yet that would change everything for me. Those are guys that can help day one, be rotation pieces next year. Other guys could be more like Langford. Which greatly changes how you look at building the team. Anthony is probably going to be there. Although I really don’t think the value is there at 14. Yeah it would really suck to get a guy that SI in that mock above says could be the best PG in the draft, even as it predicts he'll be picked as the 5th PG. I can fully understand certain people have certain opinions. I don't get people looking at Anthony and not seeing the upside. It's not like he was Irving on the Celtics, that team lacked talent in a way we haven't seen in decades. He basically had two good post players and a three point shooter. Which meant all creating was on him. He had to take tough shots because no one else could create offense. In a day and age where teams are going small, spacing the floor, UNC was playing two bigs and those two bigs both had zero range. Which just clogged the paint and made things even harder on him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 15:40:08 GMT -5
I love the reports that Hayward wants out of his contract... umm it’s his option idiots. I hope he does just that. Danny needs to stay the course. Building for the future and trying to win. No Hayward makes it easier to make picks and develop a guy like Langford and the picks. While also allowing Tatum and Brown to take on increased responsibilities. Yet I still think a trade to the Pacers is the best option for both teams and Hayward. The Pacers actually need his playmaking. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 4, 2020 16:16:58 GMT -5
Anthony is probably going to be there. Although I really don’t think the value is there at 14. Yeah it would really suck to get a guy that SI in that mock above says could be the best PG in the draft, even as it predicts he'll be picked as the 5th PG. I can fully understand certain people have certain opinions. I don't get people looking at Anthony and not seeing the upside. It's not like he was Irving on the Celtics, that team lacked talent in a way we haven't seen in decades. He basically had two good post players and a three point shooter. Which meant all creating was on him. He had to take tough shots because no one else could create offense. In a day and age where teams are going small, spacing the floor, UNC was playing two bigs and those two bigs both had zero range. Which just clogged the paint and made things even harder on him. There 100% us upside with Anthony, I just think he’s going to be a bust, which means he’ll be the best player from the draft |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 16:42:59 GMT -5
How does he bust as the 14th pick? That bar is rather low and at worst I see a microwave bench scorer which would be good value at 14. Maybe an undersized score first combo guard that rebounds and isn't horrible on D. Like that's worst case because the guy can shoot and is very athletic.
One thing that's huge for me is his dad and his upbringing. He was rich, as in could do whatever he wants. Yet had the drive to become one of the best high school basketball players in the Country. That's a love for the game and that's what you want. He's not playing for money and then getting lazy like some busts because they now have millions.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 4, 2020 17:23:54 GMT -5
How does he bust as the 14th pick? That bar is rather low and at worst I see a microwave bench scorer which would be good value at 14. Maybe an undersized score first combo guard that rebounds and isn't horrible on D. Like that's worst case because the guy can shoot and is very athletic. One thing that's huge for me is his dad and his upbringing. He was rich, as in could do whatever he wants. Yet had the drive to become one of the best high school basketball players in the Country. That's a love for the game and that's what you want. He's not playing for money and then getting lazy like some busts because they now have millions. He can bust because your “at worst” isn’t really the at worst scenario. |
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Post by philarhody on Nov 4, 2020 17:47:18 GMT -5
How does he bust as the 14th pick? That bar is rather low and at worst I see a microwave bench scorer which would be good value at 14. Maybe an undersized score first combo guard that rebounds and isn't horrible on D. Like that's worst case because the guy can shoot and is very athletic. One thing that's huge for me is his dad and his upbringing. He was rich, as in could do whatever he wants. Yet had the drive to become one of the best high school basketball players in the Country. That's a love for the game and that's what you want. He's not playing for money and then getting lazy like some busts because they now have millions. You keep telling us he’s very athletic. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he has some verticality (Despite the fact that he was actually a subpar vertical athlete at UNC (3 dunks)). In what meaningful way is he very athletic? Especially for a guard |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 18:09:06 GMT -5
How does he bust as the 14th pick? That bar is rather low and at worst I see a microwave bench scorer which would be good value at 14. Maybe an undersized score first combo guard that rebounds and isn't horrible on D. Like that's worst case because the guy can shoot and is very athletic. One thing that's huge for me is his dad and his upbringing. He was rich, as in could do whatever he wants. Yet had the drive to become one of the best high school basketball players in the Country. That's a love for the game and that's what you want. He's not playing for money and then getting lazy like some busts because they now have millions. He can bust because your “at worst” isn’t really the at worst scenario. That's the Ringers words not mine, SI says he can be best PG, ESPN ranks him as a lead guard. What stops him? He's not Carsen Edwards who doesn't have ball skills and he does so many things he doesn't. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 18:21:13 GMT -5
How does he bust as the 14th pick? That bar is rather low and at worst I see a microwave bench scorer which would be good value at 14. Maybe an undersized score first combo guard that rebounds and isn't horrible on D. Like that's worst case because the guy can shoot and is very athletic. One thing that's huge for me is his dad and his upbringing. He was rich, as in could do whatever he wants. Yet had the drive to become one of the best high school basketball players in the Country. That's a love for the game and that's what you want. He's not playing for money and then getting lazy like some busts because they now have millions. You keep telling us he’s very athletic. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he has some verticality (Despite the fact that he was actually a subpar vertical athlete at UNC (3 dunks)). In what meaningful way is he very athletic? Especially for a guard He's a 6'3" PG and you think dunks in a major college program is how you judge that? www.google.com/search?q=cole+anthony+dunks&oq=cole+anthony+dunks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j0i22i30.6721j0j8&client=tablet-android-lenovo-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8For his size he's one of the better athletes you'll find. The guy can throw down a one handed dunk from the three throw line. He won many dunk contests in high school. Watching film it's basically everything, he can get by guys, make defensive plays, it's why he's a very good rebounder, his ability to hang in the air to get shots off, ability to jump and get shots off over guys. Do you think Kemba Walker isn't a great athlete because he doesn't dunk in games? The reason he's so good even though he's tiny is because he's a very good athlete. 39.5" vertical. Anthony can do things he can't. Watch a bunch of those videos and tell me you don't think he's a crazy athlete for his size. His issues aren't athletic ability, it's shot selection, being a true PG and that he doesn't have great length. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 18:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 4, 2020 19:56:59 GMT -5
He can bust because your “at worst” isn’t really the at worst scenario. That's the Ringers words not mine, SI says he can be best PG, ESPN ranks him as a lead guard. What stops him? He's not Carsen Edwards who doesn't have ball skills and he does so many things he doesn't. Like I said previously, I’m likely biased on him but he worries me. I also said there’s enough there that I’ll talk myself into him really quickly should they take him. He clearly worries a lot of teams as well tho. |
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Post by philarhody on Nov 4, 2020 20:57:27 GMT -5
You keep telling us he’s very athletic. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he has some verticality (Despite the fact that he was actually a subpar vertical athlete at UNC (3 dunks)). In what meaningful way is he very athletic? Especially for a guard He's a 6'3" PG and you think dunks in a major college program is how you judge that? www.google.com/search?q=cole+anthony+dunks&oq=cole+anthony+dunks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j0i22i30.6721j0j8&client=tablet-android-lenovo-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8For his size he's one of the better athletes you'll find. The guy can throw down a one handed dunk from the three throw line. He won many dunk contests in high school. Watching film it's basically everything, he can get by guys, make defensive plays, it's why he's a very good rebounder, his ability to hang in the air to get shots off, ability to jump and get shots off over guys. Do you think Kemba Walker isn't a great athlete because he doesn't dunk in games? The reason he's so good even though he's tiny is because he's a very good athlete. 39.5" vertical. Anthony can do things he can't. Watch a bunch of those videos and tell me you don't think he's a crazy athlete for his size. His issues aren't athletic ability, it's shot selection, being a true PG and that he doesn't have great length. I’m trying to tell you he lacks burst and shake. Stop looking at vertical. It’s not gonna change the fact Anthony has real issues getting by and over defenders at even an NCAA level. His ceiling is limited. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 23:18:24 GMT -5
That's the Ringers words not mine, SI says he can be best PG, ESPN ranks him as a lead guard. What stops him? He's not Carsen Edwards who doesn't have ball skills and he does so many things he doesn't. Like I said previously, I’m likely biased on him but he worries me. I also said there’s enough there that I’ll talk myself into him really quickly should they take him. He clearly worries a lot of teams as well tho. It's really what do you want. Besides how I feel about Anthony, it's fit. Danny seems to love creative scoring guards. Thomas, Irving, Rozier and Kemba Walker. They are very athletic guys who are score first guards. I mean Anthony is a lot like a better much more advanced Rozier. How do you look at players? You included everything or just look at his College tape? A big part of me ranking him is everything before college being included. The guy who kept winning MVP awards in all star tournaments while in high school. His dunk contests, his triple double senior year, the fact his teams won a ton of games, his high ranking and crappy cast of players in College. Maybe that's wrong or maybe there are just a bunch of bad GMs. The thing is, he needs the right team. I'd feel different if I was the Pistons/Knicks, I wouldn't just want to hand him the keys. I love him being the back up PG, learning from Kemba, having Stevens teach him, making him earn minutes, play the right way in our system with a ton of talent. www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2017.html |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2020 23:41:09 GMT -5
He's a 6'3" PG and you think dunks in a major college program is how you judge that? www.google.com/search?q=cole+anthony+dunks&oq=cole+anthony+dunks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j0i22i30.6721j0j8&client=tablet-android-lenovo-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8For his size he's one of the better athletes you'll find. The guy can throw down a one handed dunk from the three throw line. He won many dunk contests in high school. Watching film it's basically everything, he can get by guys, make defensive plays, it's why he's a very good rebounder, his ability to hang in the air to get shots off, ability to jump and get shots off over guys. Do you think Kemba Walker isn't a great athlete because he doesn't dunk in games? The reason he's so good even though he's tiny is because he's a very good athlete. 39.5" vertical. Anthony can do things he can't. Watch a bunch of those videos and tell me you don't think he's a crazy athlete for his size. His issues aren't athletic ability, it's shot selection, being a true PG and that he doesn't have great length. I’m trying to tell you he lacks burst and shake. Stop looking at vertical. It’s not gonna change the fact Anthony has real issues getting by and over defenders at even an NCAA level. His ceiling is limited. You can have your opinion, yet that goes against basically every scouting report out there. I don't come close to seeing that on tape. I see bad shots, zero space due to no floor spacing and him forcing things. Which resulted in some bad looking plays, yet many good ones also. You sound like that podcast you posted. I'm all for more information, yet that's one source and they didn't project players. Go read The Ringer draft, ESPN, SI, NBA Draft Room, NBA draft.net, NBA.com, etc None of them say anything like you are saying about his athletic ability or his ceiling. Actually it's the opposite. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2020 7:15:27 GMT -5
If this scouting report turns out to be accurate then this is what I want:
Nesmith:
Unlimited range; spaces the floor by demanding a defense’s attention. Skilled shooter off screens who takes tight routes, makes smart reads, and has elite fundamentals from catch to release.
Comfortable shooting 3s off the dribble. He has a nice side step and stepback 3 with clean footwork.
Straight-line driver who is decisive attacking closeouts. With his size and strength, he could develop into a good finisher.
Understands his role and excels within it. He’s a great screener, executes plays, takes smart shots, and keeps the ball moving.
Competitive on-ball defender; with some improved fundamentals and athleticism, he could become far more versatile.
Intelligent defender. Though he’s not a great athlete, his positioning makes him a deterrent at the nail and around the rim.
The ability to set screens and keep the ball moving fits this offense and someone who can catch and shoot on the move or catch and shoot on a lockout at a high level is the exact thing they do not have.
I know we don’t know so it’s just an IF. But did this team, I’d take that over microwave scorer off the bench.
Nesmith
Oturu
Jones
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2020 7:18:41 GMT -5
Let’s try to be Danny fir a second though... rumors are he wants to package his picks and move up... he has to have someone in mind (like Winslow that year)... who do we think that guy is?
Okongwu?
Hayes?
I wish it were Vassell but for some reason, I don’t see that. Honestly, I don’t think they can really trade up...
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Post by texs31 on Nov 5, 2020 8:30:18 GMT -5
I love the reports that Hayward wants out of his contract... umm it’s his option idiots. I hope he does just that. Danny needs to stay the course. Building for the future and trying to win. No Hayward makes it easier to make picks and develop a guy like Langford and the picks. While also allowing Tatum and Brown to take on increased responsibilities. Yet I still think a trade to the Pacers is the best option for both teams and Hayward. The Pacers actually need his playmaking. John Karalis (Lock'd On) thinks Indiana is the best place but with a twist. In a discussion with the Pacers Lock'd On guy, he thought a package that would involve Doug McDermott definitely traded (and staying) with the C's would be his goal. In the initial "offer" he said that Boston would get Oladipo. Depending on how that works (health, etc), Boston would either keep VO or use him as trade bait. He then discussed Turner but thought it would best to immediately find a 3rd team to get 2 useful players which, IIRC, lead to his ultimate conclusion that a 3-way deal would work best with Boston getting McDermott and 2 useful players from a 3rd team. My commentary would be that a trade like that even furthers the roster crunch so now you're definitely dumping assets (young players and/or picks) to make it all work. OR, Boston could (or might have to) include those picks/players to make it all work anyway. Anyway, just one person's thought on how a Hayward to Indiana trade might look. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 5, 2020 13:19:56 GMT -5
Let’s try to be Danny fir a second though... rumors are he wants to package his picks and move up... he has to have someone in mind (like Winslow that year)... who do we think that guy is? Okongwu? Hayes? I wish it were Vassell but for some reason, I don’t see that. Honestly, I don’t think they can really trade up... First off I think the rumors are false. Do we really think Danny is trying to trade all three picks before the draft and before he knows who's there? I think it's more Danny doing his homework, which of course he's exploring all options. Some how that turns into Danny is shopping all three picks, when it's likely he's just gauging teams interest in moving down. Danny did talk about filling needs in this draft, something he doesn't normally do. If you trade up like that, I think that's what you do. Target a need. So Wiseman, Okongwu, and Toppin. Yet I think it's Wiseman and Toppin given they add offense and shooting. For me it's Wiseman. I do have to mention Okoro, he doesn't fit a need, like not even close. Yet he's the type of guy Danny loves. |
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