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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 7, 2020 14:15:31 GMT -5
Saw something talking about Desmond Bane maybe getting interest in the lottery. Not sure of the credibility of THAT but it would certainly fit my Cs trade up and take someone NOBODY thinks they need to trade up for. 😁 That would more than fit that - if they drafted Bane at 14 I wouldn’t be happy. If they trade up fro him, I’d throw up If the choice at 14 is Bey or Bane, it's very easy for me. It's Bane, he's a much more proven shooter and has more skills. I'm not a huge fan of Bane at 14 because he has limited upside, yet so does Bey. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 7, 2020 15:31:10 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 7, 2020 15:54:42 GMT -5
To be fair it’s 2 wings right now as Bolmaro is being drafted to be stashed, likely for a couple years. Also, Bolmaro is more a combo guard than a win who could develop into a bigger PG. Also, versatile wings are arguably the most important position on the court these days and it’s looking more and more likely that Hayward is not long for Boston. Is this my ideal draft? No, but I like Green a lot so if he fell like this, I’d have a hard time saying to pass on him just because they took Bey or Maxey earlier. In fact, I’d be pretty upset that they passed on him at 30. To make one thing clear, one of the reasons I love Maxey is because I think he can be a PG on the Celtics. So he's not a wing in my book. Wings are important, yet you have two of the best young wings in the game. Then you have Langford, who Danny loves. Nevermind Haywards still here as of now. We have seen how it's hard to play three wings together in the playoffs. Out of those Picks, Green at 30 is a case of best player available. I can fully understand taking him no matter what happens. Heck I think I like Green more than Bey. Bey scares me to death, he's a guy I might take at 26, not 14. Bolmaro- isn't a combo guard in my book, not with he struggles to drive against smaller players. He's like a big shooting guard, who is so-so dribbling, not a good shooter and is a creative passer. The one thing a Celtics PG has to do is be able to drive, get the D to react and pass. That's the thing with him, if he doesn't develop a shot, he's not going to be that good. If you believe that the shot will come, he's a good stash guy, if not stay far away. So he carries a lot of risk. I'd point out Danny has talked about drafting for need and he's never done that before. It makes sense, this draft is crazy close talent wise and it's strong in areas we have needs. Like PGs, Bigs and shooting. That mock has us taking guys that would have a crazy hard time getting minutes and Bey might be the most overrated shooter in the draft. I rank so many guys above him, heck I think Maxey will be a better overall shooter than Bey. The only reason you take Bolmaro is because you can’t trade for a future first and can’t roster 3 rookies. That’s pretty clear. Regardless, his position is meaningless compared to other picks you make. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 7, 2020 17:14:51 GMT -5
To make one thing clear, one of the reasons I love Maxey is because I think he can be a PG on the Celtics. So he's not a wing in my book. Wings are important, yet you have two of the best young wings in the game. Then you have Langford, who Danny loves. Nevermind Haywards still here as of now. We have seen how it's hard to play three wings together in the playoffs. Out of those Picks, Green at 30 is a case of best player available. I can fully understand taking him no matter what happens. Heck I think I like Green more than Bey. Bey scares me to death, he's a guy I might take at 26, not 14. Bolmaro- isn't a combo guard in my book, not with he struggles to drive against smaller players. He's like a big shooting guard, who is so-so dribbling, not a good shooter and is a creative passer. The one thing a Celtics PG has to do is be able to drive, get the D to react and pass. That's the thing with him, if he doesn't develop a shot, he's not going to be that good. If you believe that the shot will come, he's a good stash guy, if not stay far away. So he carries a lot of risk. I'd point out Danny has talked about drafting for need and he's never done that before. It makes sense, this draft is crazy close talent wise and it's strong in areas we have needs. Like PGs, Bigs and shooting. That mock has us taking guys that would have a crazy hard time getting minutes and Bey might be the most overrated shooter in the draft. I rank so many guys above him, heck I think Maxey will be a better overall shooter than Bey. The only reason you take Bolmaro is because you can’t trade for a future first and can’t roster 3 rookies. That’s pretty clear. Regardless, his position is meaningless compared to other picks you make. Well that's the way some people look at it. I frankly hate that view! You should only take Bolmaro if you feel it's good value and he's worth the pick. Trade the pick for another player, trade the pick for another pick, trade up, trade down, make all three picks. Just picking a guy to stash him is stupid unless he's worth being picked at that spot. The idea that they have no other options is crazy. If you have one pick and especially with higher picks, taking best available player is the way to go. When you have multiple picks, a ton of young players already you need to factor in team building and the roster. Chances are he'll come over sometime in the next four years, so these guys will all be on the roster at some point. It's really a mute point. We have a long history of Danny having multiple picks and he always picks multiple positions. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 7, 2020 17:35:32 GMT -5
The only reason you take Bolmaro is because you can’t trade for a future first and can’t roster 3 rookies. That’s pretty clear. Regardless, his position is meaningless compared to other picks you make. Well that's the way some people look at it. I frankly hate that view! You should only take Bolmaro if you feel it's good value and he's worth the pick. Trade the pick for another player, trade the pick for another pick, trade up, trade down, make all three picks. Just picking a guy to stash him is stupid unless he's worth being picked at that spot. The idea that they have no other options is crazy. If you have one pick and especially with higher picks, taking best available player is the way to go. When you have multiple picks, a ton of young players already you need to factor in team building and the roster. Chances are he'll come over sometime in the next four years, so these guys will all be on the roster at some point. It's really a mute point. We have a long history of Danny having multiple picks and he always picks multiple positions. We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 7, 2020 20:41:55 GMT -5
Well that's the way some people look at it. I frankly hate that view! You should only take Bolmaro if you feel it's good value and he's worth the pick. Trade the pick for another player, trade the pick for another pick, trade up, trade down, make all three picks. Just picking a guy to stash him is stupid unless he's worth being picked at that spot. The idea that they have no other options is crazy. If you have one pick and especially with higher picks, taking best available player is the way to go. When you have multiple picks, a ton of young players already you need to factor in team building and the roster. Chances are he'll come over sometime in the next four years, so these guys will all be on the roster at some point. It's really a mute point. We have a long history of Danny having multiple picks and he always picks multiple positions. We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. With Yabu it was because you needed cap space, so it limited your options. That's not the case this time. It seems people forget that. |
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Post by philarhody on Nov 7, 2020 21:00:54 GMT -5
Well that's the way some people look at it. I frankly hate that view! You should only take Bolmaro if you feel it's good value and he's worth the pick. Trade the pick for another player, trade the pick for another pick, trade up, trade down, make all three picks. Just picking a guy to stash him is stupid unless he's worth being picked at that spot. The idea that they have no other options is crazy. If you have one pick and especially with higher picks, taking best available player is the way to go. When you have multiple picks, a ton of young players already you need to factor in team building and the roster. Chances are he'll come over sometime in the next four years, so these guys will all be on the roster at some point. It's really a mute point. We have a long history of Danny having multiple picks and he always picks multiple positions. We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. Honestly Bolmaro at 14 wouldn’t be bad value and might actually be in play for Danny. Here’s a question, is Bolmaro that much different as a prospect from LaMelo? If Bolmaro learns to shoot it, I think he’s a starting point guard. Super gifted Ball handler and playmaker. And he is a DOG on defense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2020 2:12:05 GMT -5
We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. Honestly Bolmaro at 14 wouldn’t be bad value and might actually be in play for Danny. Here’s a question, is Bolmaro that much different as a prospect from LaMelo? If Bolmaro learns to shoot it, I think he’s a starting point guard. Super gifted Ball handler and playmaker. And he is a DOG on defense. I'll start with saying I have no idea of the talent level in the two leagues these guys played in. I see a massive difference between the two. The type you'd expect from a top five guy versus a late first guy. LaMelo is just more skilled and looks like a better athlete. He can get by guys easily with speed or his crazy ball skills. He can break ankles, stop on a dime type stuff. He's a much better finisher, showing a bunch of moves in the paint. LaMelo shot even looks better, which isn't good for Bolmaro. LeMelo will make these crazy plays, Bolmaro is like an old school passer. Easily more bounce passes than any other PG or point forward I've watched recently. I do love the energy Bolmaro has on D, it was like Avery Bradley. Yet I do question if he can do that in the NBA against PG. I can see him being a good player if his shot comes around and his skill level increases. LaMelo looks like he has the skills to run an NBA offense day one. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2020 6:54:40 GMT -5
We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. With Yabu it was because you needed cap space, so it limited your options. That's not the case this time. It seems people forget that. I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole with this. The only point I want to make is there’s a situation that exists where the team doesn’t feel they can add 3 first round picks to next years team and are unable to trade the pick for decent value so they draft and stash a guy like Bolmaro even if he’s not the best player on their board or the best fit position wise for the team. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2020 7:00:28 GMT -5
I’d take that draft from the Celtics tho. If you switched out Bey for Maxey I would freaking love that draft for Boston. I actually like Green more than I like Bey. I have a huge fear that the Celtics come out of this draft with only role players and no potential stars. Barring any unforeseen trades, this is going to be the highest they draft in a while. I think this is a likelihood. This draft isn’t high on star power to begin with and they have a mid round and 2 late round picks. I’m not 100% sure on what your definition of a star is, but assuming Jason Tatum is a star and Jaylen Brown is a borderline star then expecting anything like that from this draft is dreaming. That’s ok though. If they got 2 good players from this draft that’s a huge win and exactly what the team needs. Imagine they get a guy at 14 that turns into a Danny Greenish 3 and D wing or a JJ Reddick type shooter and then a guy like Oturu late who’s similar to a Brook Lopez Center who can shoot 3s. (Please excuse the examples as being very rough) - those guys are far from stars but turn good teams into great ones. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2020 7:03:47 GMT -5
We can hate it all we want but it’s reality as it’s been done before. He’s a pretty decent long term prospect tho so stashing him at the end of the round isn’t so bad. You can’t just trade a pick if no one else wants it for decent value. Ideally you trade one of those for a future first even a couple years out but that takes 2. Honestly Bolmaro at 14 wouldn’t be bad value and might actually be in play for Danny. Here’s a question, is Bolmaro that much different as a prospect from LaMelo? If Bolmaro learns to shoot it, I think he’s a starting point guard. Super gifted Ball handler and playmaker. And he is a DOG on defense. If they were going to reach for a stash at 14, I’d rather I’d be aleksej pokusevski. But I really hope they don’t. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2020 7:08:11 GMT -5
I’m starting to get the feeling that someone might hit the lottery with Killian Tillie in the second round.
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Post by philarhody on Nov 8, 2020 13:07:53 GMT -5
I’m starting to get the feeling that someone might hit the lottery with Killian Tillie in the second round. If he can stay reasonably healthy, someone will hit the lottery. He is legit. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2020 15:00:31 GMT -5
Tillie is a good polished offensive player. The problem for me is he's a center for the Celtics and that's the big issue. He doesn't rebound and won't be a good defender. He could be a good bench piece, yet he needs to play next to a good Defensive center if he's playing big minutes. That can't happen with Tatum playing PF.
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Post by philarhody on Nov 8, 2020 15:21:14 GMT -5
If you switched out Bey for Maxey I would freaking love that draft for Boston. I actually like Green more than I like Bey. I have a huge fear that the Celtics come out of this draft with only role players and no potential stars. Barring any unforeseen trades, this is going to be the highest they draft in a while. I think this is a likelihood. This draft isn’t high on star power to begin with and they have a mid round and 2 late round picks. I’m not 100% sure on what your definition of a star is, but assuming Jason Tatum is a star and Jaylen Brown is a borderline star then expecting anything like that from this draft is dreaming. That’s ok though. If they got 2 good players from this draft that’s a huge win and exactly what the team needs. Imagine they get a guy at 14 that turns into a Danny Greenish 3 and D wing or a JJ Reddick type shooter and then a guy like Oturu late who’s similar to a Brook Lopez Center who can shoot 3s. (Please excuse the examples as being very rough) - those guys are far from stars but turn good teams into great ones. I really was hoping RJ Hampton was going to be available at 14. I think he could actually be better than Jaylen. It’s becoming increasingly unlikely he’s gonna be there at 14. Some potential stars who COULD be there at 14: Terry, Pokusevski, Maxey. My thoughts on Oturu. I don’t think He is taller than 6’9. And he can’t switch at all. And he’s not a great athlete. I’m not sure he is an NBA guy. That’s the kind of Ante Zizic/Fab Mello/RJ Hunter garbage that can’t happen in this draft. This roster has no room for 10th guy bench warmers. Edit: I’m redacting my thoughts on Oturu. I have to revisit some film on him |
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Post by philarhody on Nov 8, 2020 15:42:34 GMT -5
Tillie is a good polished offensive player. The problem for me is he's a center for the Celtics and that's the big issue. He doesn't rebound and won't be a good defender. He could be a good bench piece, yet he needs to play next to a good Defensive center if he's playing big minutes. That can't happen with Tatum playing PF. I don’t know what you’ve seen, but Tillie is a very good team defender at center and switchable, even after the injuries. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2020 18:15:38 GMT -5
Tillie is a good polished offensive player. The problem for me is he's a center for the Celtics and that's the big issue. He doesn't rebound and won't be a good defender. He could be a good bench piece, yet he needs to play next to a good Defensive center if he's playing big minutes. That can't happen with Tatum playing PF. I don’t know what you’ve seen, but Tillie is a very good team defender at center and switchable, even after the injuries. Regardless, if you can get a guy at 30 who can play a role for you in certain situations that’s not a bad get. Not everyone is a big minutes player. Every team can only have so many of them and a lot of bigs are matchup types. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2020 22:33:59 GMT -5
Tillie is a good polished offensive player. The problem for me is he's a center for the Celtics and that's the big issue. He doesn't rebound and won't be a good defender. He could be a good bench piece, yet he needs to play next to a good Defensive center if he's playing big minutes. That can't happen with Tatum playing PF. I don’t know what you’ve seen, but Tillie is a very good team defender at center and switchable, even after the injuries. I don't have an issue saying he's good at team D and can do some switching. He also has a bunch of issues on D if he's a center in the NBA. Youtube has a bunch of good videos if you want details. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 8, 2020 22:57:30 GMT -5
I don’t know what you’ve seen, but Tillie is a very good team defender at center and switchable, even after the injuries. Regardless, if you can get a guy at 30 who can play a role for you in certain situations that’s not a bad get. Not everyone is a big minutes player. Every team can only have so many of them and a lot of bigs are matchup types. It all depends what you want. Basically the story of this draft. |
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mobaz
Veteran
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Post by mobaz on Nov 9, 2020 12:48:05 GMT -5
Latest from Draft Express ($) insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30280664/nba-draft-intel-latest-top-picks-trades-lottery"Unless a surprise trade completely disrupts the top of the draft, LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards and James Wiseman are likely to make up the top three in some order, according to conversations with multiple team executives, scouts and agents. Most NBA front offices are operating under the assumption that Ball is going No. 1 -- either to the Minnesota Timberwolves or a team that trades up to select him. ... "After those three, the second tier includes Deni Avdija, Obi Toppin, Isaac Okoro, Tyrese Haliburton, Onyeka Okongwu and Patrick Williams. Those players appear likely to make up picks Nos. 4-9 in some order. ... "There is far less consensus around the league after that top nine. Devin Vassell, Killian Hayes, Aaron Nesmith, Tyrese Maxey, Precious Achiuwa, RJ Hampton, Kira Lewis and Saddiq Bey are the most likely to land among teams in the top 20. ... "Picks belonging to the Sacramento Kings (No. 12), Boston Celtics (No. 14), Wolves (No. 17), Dallas Mavericks (No. 18), Brooklyn Nets (No. 19) and Miami Heat (No. 20) are the most prevalent in trade conversations lately, per sources." |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 9, 2020 13:18:13 GMT -5
I believe there was a comment about Anthony, among others, being in that Top 20 group too but with a wider range.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 9, 2020 15:02:25 GMT -5
Pelton did his annual WARP projections which look at everything. Not just one year of College, yet also high school stats and rankings. Cole Anthony is ranked #4. It really comes down to looking at the whole package, or just looking at one year.
Some major difference are Hampton #5, Winston #13, Ramsey #14, Isiah Joe #15
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Post by texs31 on Nov 9, 2020 15:13:50 GMT -5
While I think I'm on the Anthony bandwagon, it should be disclosed, for others that don't have ESPN+, Pelton put him in the 5th Tier (late Lottery or so) with the opening line "Anthony is a case where my statistical projection likely misses the mark".
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 9, 2020 16:24:11 GMT -5
Yeah he talks about his 46.5% shooting around the basket and shoot first style. I've broken down why I don't worry about those given his team in past posts.
In his WARP projections he also dogs him for his assist numbers and steals, while rating Haliburton above him. Yet as a freshman, playing only 2 minutes a game less. Haliburton averaged 3.6 assists and 1.5 steals compared to Anthony's 4.0 and 1.3. Anthony also averaged 5.7 rebounds to 3.4 for Haliburton even though he's a huge PG. Lewis Jr. is another player who had worse assist and steal numbers as a freshman, yet most currently have ranked higher.
I'm not sure who Cole Anthony pissed off, yet it seems something happened. I can't remember another player getting so much negative crap given the context in which he played. My computer program designed to find guys undervalued, might miss the mark.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 9, 2020 17:25:41 GMT -5
I’m back on the Tyrell Terry bandwagon. On top of his shooting - the guy has worked his ass off which I love. I’d be stoked if they drafted him.
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