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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 13:14:06 GMT -5
If I remember right you didn't like Bam coming out either. He has crazy upside, he's just raw. I struggle with this one on a lot of levels. I hear what you are saying, he could develop a jump shot he shows no signs of or he could develop a high basketball IQ and learn how to be a great passer who can push 4-5 assists per game. I also wonder how long a guy like Bams shelf life is. I could be way off on this but wasn’t Ibaka crazy athletic early in his career? I don't know to what level Ibaka was, but yeah he was athletic. It's not like Ibaka still isn't a darn useful player. Well upside is upside, the chance he reaches it is a whole other discussion. Yet your guy might be even more risky given how skinny he is and the whole how international bigs adjust to the physical NBA. Right now I see a crazy athlete that can guard literally like 2-5 in certain situations. He has great ball skills for a center, much better than Bam did coming out and already takes three's. I don't talk about him much given Robert Williams and the fact at 14 I see a better combo of floor/ceiling. Yet if he puts it all together he could be a monster. A more athletic Theis, who can attack the basket like a SF/PF and make three's. I really liked Bam coming out, yet I never once thought he'd be the player he currently is. There weren't any signs he was an elite passer for a center. He was raw and took years to develop. Credit the Heat with doing a great job developing him. That's the hard part, we don't have information on his character, work ethic, drive, determination, goals, why he's playing, etc. It's one of the reasons I love Cole Anthony, I have answers to those questions. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2020 13:53:37 GMT -5
I struggle with this one on a lot of levels. I hear what you are saying, he could develop a jump shot he shows no signs of or he could develop a high basketball IQ and learn how to be a great passer who can push 4-5 assists per game. I also wonder how long a guy like Bams shelf life is. I could be way off on this but wasn’t Ibaka crazy athletic early in his career? I don't know to what level Ibaka was, but yeah he was athletic. It's not like Ibaka still isn't a darn useful player. Well upside is upside, the chance he reaches it is a whole other discussion. Yet your guy might be even more risky given how skinny he is and the whole how international bigs adjust to the physical NBA. Right now I see a crazy athlete that can guard literally like 2-5 in certain situations. He has great ball skills for a center, much better than Bam did coming out and already takes three's. I don't talk about him much given Robert Williams and the fact at 14 I see a better combo of floor/ceiling. Yet if he puts it all together he could be a monster. A more athletic Theis, who can attack the basket like a SF/PF and make three's. I really liked Bam coming out, yet I never once thought he'd be the player he currently is. There weren't any signs he was an elite passer for a center. He was raw and took years to develop. Credit the Heat with doing a great job developing him. That's the hard part, we don't have information on his character, work ethic, drive, determination, goals, why he's playing, etc. It's one of the reasons I love Cole Anthony, I have answers to those questions. For clarity sake The Greek isn’t my guy. I just used him because his upside is enormous but his bust level is too. By the way, he’s just going to the The Greek until there’s a reason I need to learn to spell is name. He’s really Serbian or was born there but has Greek citizenship so I’m going with The Greek. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 13:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2020 15:04:19 GMT -5
I’d be so upset if the draft fell that way and those were the picks but i do like the info on the players. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 15:29:57 GMT -5
I don't know to what level Ibaka was, but yeah he was athletic. It's not like Ibaka still isn't a darn useful player. Well upside is upside, the chance he reaches it is a whole other discussion. Yet your guy might be even more risky given how skinny he is and the whole how international bigs adjust to the physical NBA. Right now I see a crazy athlete that can guard literally like 2-5 in certain situations. He has great ball skills for a center, much better than Bam did coming out and already takes three's. I don't talk about him much given Robert Williams and the fact at 14 I see a better combo of floor/ceiling. Yet if he puts it all together he could be a monster. A more athletic Theis, who can attack the basket like a SF/PF and make three's. I really liked Bam coming out, yet I never once thought he'd be the player he currently is. There weren't any signs he was an elite passer for a center. He was raw and took years to develop. Credit the Heat with doing a great job developing him. That's the hard part, we don't have information on his character, work ethic, drive, determination, goals, why he's playing, etc. It's one of the reasons I love Cole Anthony, I have answers to those questions. For clarity sake The Greek isn’t my guy. I just used him because his upside is enormous but his bust level is too. By the way, he’s just going to the The Greek until there’s a reason I need to learn to spell is name. He’s really Serbian or was born there but has Greek citizenship so I’m going with The Greek. I'm going to call him AP. What do you see him becoming? I see a seven foot PG/SG/SF that's a good, not close to elite athlete. His calling card is skill over athletic ability. He needs to stay overseas for minimum a few years. That's the best place for him to develop. I'm not against the him, just not at 14. Not off the tape I have access to. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 15:38:35 GMT -5
I’d be so upset if the draft fell that way and those were the picks but i do like the info on the players. I'd also be upset, my feelings are well known. Yet is that crazy? Two crazy athletes and a euro upside guy. AP at 14 scares me to death, at 26 it makes a ton of sense. UA is a physical freak, he could easily be Jordan. He dominated bigs in College, he owned the paint. He's limited to basically rim runner status like Jordan, yet wow. Go watch his tape, it was a man among boys type stuff. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2020 15:43:35 GMT -5
For clarity sake The Greek isn’t my guy. I just used him because his upside is enormous but his bust level is too. By the way, he’s just going to the The Greek until there’s a reason I need to learn to spell is name. He’s really Serbian or was born there but has Greek citizenship so I’m going with The Greek. I'm going to call him AP. What do you see him becoming? I see a seven foot PG/SG/SF that's a good, not close to elite athlete. His calling card is skill over athletic ability. He needs to stay overseas for minimum a few years. That's the best place for him to develop. I'm not against the him, just not at 14. Not off the tape I have access to. I can’t even venture a guess as what he will become. Honestly, have no clue. It’s a hard read. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2020 15:45:41 GMT -5
I’d be so upset if the draft fell that way and those were the picks but i do like the info on the players. I'd also be upset, my feelings are well known. Yet is that crazy? Two crazy athletes and a euro upside guy. AP at 14 scares me to death, at 26 it makes a ton of sense. UA is a physical freak, he could easily be Jordan. He dominated bigs in College, he owned the paint. He's limited to basically rim runner status like Jordan, yet wow. Go watch his tape, it was a man among boys type stuff. AP at 26 is a really good get (would tear my heart out to pass on Terry there though). If you are planning to take UA at 30 then you certainly don’t take Precious at 14 and while you never know if a guy will be there it’s a pretty good bet that he’d be there at 30 and I wouldn’t have a problem with them taking him there unless they already took Precious. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 16:27:39 GMT -5
It actually makes sense because if you take Precious at 14 you buy into him becoming an offensive guy. You buy his dribbling, finishing and shooting. So you could play him at PF/C if not even SF as he'll be able to guard those guys.
Then UA is just best available and a match up piece. I know mocks haven't shown him as a first round guy. Yet he easily could be. There's certainly a chance he's gone by 30. This whole draft is what do you want and the mocks are all way too similar given how close in rankings these guys are. Intel is limited because there was no combine, pro days, group workouts were the press could get information.
Yet this is also extreme, like the Sixers who need shooting pass on Terry and take Bolmaro who can't shoot. That seems highly unlikely.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 11, 2020 18:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 12, 2020 7:27:10 GMT -5
Celtics have a workout scheduled for Nesmith this week. Nesmith will be their 9th in person workout out of 10 allowed. They already worked out:
Precious
RJ Hampton
Plus 6 others that I could find no info on.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 12, 2020 8:16:16 GMT -5
Read something that suggested workouts could be a bigger clue this year bc they are more limited with Covid.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 12, 2020 8:33:16 GMT -5
Read something that suggested workouts could be a bigger clue this year bc they are more limited with Covid. They also seem to draft players they work out. Brown and Tatum are 2 examples.:: they wanted Herro after his workout. Worth noting that they did not workout Langford (injury could have played a role there) or Grant Williams. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 11:50:21 GMT -5
Last year they interviewed the top three players they picked, yet didn't work them out. The only player to do both was Herro. They also did group workouts with six at a time. Something guys ranked lower do, yet not guys ranked higher like Tatum. They worked out Terry Rozier, so they are all over the place. Which isn't surprising with Danny, he doesn't leak information. Yet I have to agree draft workouts look more important just because they didn't interview any top guys, which they did last year. Six players picked before 14 interviewed last year. This year Terry and Bane are the two highest rated guys.
What I'm interested in is the guys who are projected above 14 and of course we don't have any of those. I can't see them trading up for guys who they didn't interview or workout.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 12:00:09 GMT -5
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Nov 12, 2020 13:06:01 GMT -5
Wut?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 14:17:25 GMT -5
That makes no sense on so many levels. We don't have tons of crap contracts that equal 26 million. So a bunch of those contracts would have value like Smart, Hayward or Walker. You don't trade three firsts plus Smart to get Holiday. You don't trade a large group of guys to free up roster spaces, while trading all your picks. Heck I don't see why you trade Hayward for him. That sounds like Danny just talking about everything and someone leaks it to gain leverage with another team.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Nov 12, 2020 14:27:06 GMT -5
That makes no sense on so many levels. We don't have tons of crap contracts that equal 26 million. So a bunch of those contracts would have value like Smart, Hayward or Walker. You don't trade three firsts plus Smart to get Holiday. You don't trade a large group of guys to free up roster spaces, while trading all your picks. Heck I don't see why you trade Hayward for him. That sounds like Danny just talking about everything and someone leaks it to gain leverage with another team. I mean, he's better than Smart, but not $15M more a year better, certainly not $15M more a year plus a new contract plus 3 first round picks better. Plus he might not be better for this team given Smart's leadership and dirty work 'tude. I guess if it's Hayward going, it's better than Hayward leaving for nothing and being capped out. But you still couldn't play your 5 best players together, and you'd have trouble with teams with big guards when Kemba and Jrue are together. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 12, 2020 14:28:53 GMT -5
That makes no sense on so many levels. We don't have tons of crap contracts that equal 26 million. So a bunch of those contracts would have value like Smart, Hayward or Walker. You don't trade three firsts plus Smart to get Holiday. You don't trade a large group of guys to free up roster spaces, while trading all your picks. Heck I don't see why you trade Hayward for him. That sounds like Danny just talking about everything and someone leaks it to gain leverage with another team. The only way it remotely makes sense and I still don’t think it does is if they are trading the guy I said they’d never trade, Kemba. But, if that were true then we should be getting picks not NOLA. |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 12, 2020 14:33:54 GMT -5
Saw @dangercart play with the following scenario (NOT a rumor but someone just trying to come up with a plausible, albeit unlikely, scenario):
Hayward (Extend and Trade), Langford, pick 13 (from NO) to Indiana
Myles Turner, TJ McConnell and a Top 10 pick (after Boston packages their 3 to move up) to NO
Holiday and TJ Warren to Boston
Obviously the rarity of extend and trades as well as the complexities once you get into 3 and 4 team trades (though I did read one of the national writers talking about how GMs think those are more likely given the cap situations for most teams) make this unlikely. More of a thought exercise on Ryan's part.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 14:48:16 GMT -5
Is he better overall than Smart? Sure, yet he's older and not close to as good of a fit on D with Walker as Smart is. Yet who has more trade value? I'd say that's rather close because yeah Smart makes about half as much and I don't think Jrue is twice the player Smart is. Certainly not three first round picks, including a lottery pick.
Hayward leaving versus Jrue okay, that's not horrible if that's the best option. Yet not with three first round picks.
I don't buy it, unless he's just getting part of a multi team deal, where we flip him for someone else. Like Hayward for Jrue, then Jrue and the picks for something, maybe Turner and Warren. I don't know, you'd have to get crazy creative for that to make sense.
The only way Jrue is worth our three picks is if we are dumping a ton of bad contracts. A crazy negative asset, yet we don't have a crazy negative assets.
Unless Danny is targeting guys like Hayes and NAW who he interviewed last year or it includes future picks coming our way.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 12, 2020 14:51:14 GMT -5
Saw @dangercart play with the following scenario (NOT a rumor but someone just trying to come up with a plausible, albeit unlikely, scenario): Hayward (Extend and Trade), Langford, pick 13 (from NO) to Indiana Myles Turner, TJ McConnell and a Top 10 pick (after Boston packages their 3 to move up) to NO Holiday and TJ Warren to Boston Obviously the rarity of extend and trades as well as the complexities once you get into 3 and 4 team trades (though I did read one of the national writers talking about how GMs think those are more likely given the cap situations for most teams) make this unlikely. More of a thought exercise on Ryan's part. So they trade one year of Jrue plus pick 13 for 3 years of turn and a top 10 pick.... sweet deal for NOLA... Do extend and trades work differently than sign and trades? Also, I hate that deal for Boston but I’m resigning myself to the fact that I’m probably going to hate what comes out of this draft if they don’t make at least 2 first round picks. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 14:58:23 GMT -5
Why wouldn't Boston just trade with the Pacers and get Turner and Warren? Hayward, Langford and the 14th pick. We keep two firsts and get the younger guys that fit better.
Edit: Trade 26 and 30 to move up and take Anthony or Maxey lol😂 Now that's a damn good draft.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 12, 2020 14:59:07 GMT -5
Not sure if there are different restrictions or not.
Not that I'm trying to defend the idea (don't think I like it) but the way I'd try to break it down is what would you be willing to add to Gordon Hayward to get Jrue Holiday (since both are likely FA's the following year). Then what would you be willing to trade for TJ Warren.
So is Hayward + Langford + 26 = Holiday (for example) and 14 + 30 = Warren (or some other combination). Not for me.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 12, 2020 15:03:33 GMT -5
Good luck, I still don't understand the Walker for Rozier sign and trade based on the rules.
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