2020 Celtics Offseason

D-rating comparisons are only really useful when comparing within the team and you just cited a drop off in his D-rating from last year to this year, so there’s some regression for you. I was looking into him wayyyyy back at the start of the pandemic (simpler times) because I’ve long been a fan (I like Texas basketball) + considered him as an option for the Celtics but a lot of his advanced defensive metrics took a slide too. Some people attribute this to having to play with Sabonis instead of Thad Young, but he also isn’t thriving on the court without Sabonis either. It’s weird- all his numbers went down. Now the shooting % slipping can be explained by the increased volume of 3’s he shoots but he’s never been a rebounder and the defense is going the wrong direction. He gets bullied. Go look at his last 5 games against Embiid. Go look what Towns did to him. Go look what Drummond does to him. These are great players but at Turner’s price and with his supposed defensive acumen he should be able to limit them a lot more than he does. At $20 mill (+ having to take back Mcdermott too) I do not want that. I’d rather get a sturdier, more aggressive player

In re: to Thompson and his defense here is a Cavs fan talking about him back in April

www.google.com/amp/s/kingjamesgospel.com/2020/04/29/cleveland-cavaliers-grading-tristan-thompsons-2019-20-thus-far/amp/3/

He guarded Giannis earlier this season and held him to 5-15 and 14 points. The Cavs had a 120.5 D rating WITHOUT him on the court. That is all time bad. He’s not a rim protector but he’s a good defender and I think he would fit in here easier than Turner. We are going to see a lot of 3’s made off of offensive rebounds this season. Plus Thompson himself started to step out from 3 down the stretch this past year. He Shot it pretty well too! I imagine we will see that continue a bit this year. He’s just become a very efficient player as he’s developed over his career too. The injuries are a little bit of a concern but if we get this years version of Thompson we will be happy. Last years meh but that may have been more injury related.

Basically I think there’s just more value with TT at $9 than Turner at $18 and I think he’s also a better fit overall. I do not think Turner is twice the player Thompson is. Going this route gives the team more financial flexibility in the future and on top of that they’re hopefully going to get a big tasty trade exception. I’d rather not have to take Khloe in as well but it is what it is


And I didn’t even really factor this in until now but Myles may not be a good fit for the fan base. This is a guy who plays relatively passively, makes a lot of money, and deleted his social media after team USA’s lackluster performance to avoid criticism. Our market is HARSH to people like that- I think it’s often times unfair but it is what it is at this point. You’re under the microscope. You don’t get let off the hook for anything when you’re making 20 milly. I mean people in this city hated JD Drew when he was OPSing .900 and playing plus defense in right because they didn’t like how expressionless/passive he was in conjunction with his salary. Buncha vultures just waiting for a screw up




At the end of the day in regards to Hayward I think it makes tons of sense he ended up in Charlotte. He’s already signed there before, now he gets to go this time. Nobody was matching that offer so I think the sign and trade with the pacers was never really going to be an avenue

Extending Hayward’s deadline for making a decision wasn’t just good for the Celtics, it was good for Hayward too. It kept more teams on the table for both sides the negotiate with.

RPM where Thompson rated 42nd overall among centers? Where Turner was 7th based on D and Thompson was 21st, that RPM?

The article I posted explained his shift due to Sabonis. Yet going down to still one of the better defensive bigs in the league. Thompson dreams of numbers like Turner has on D. There's a difference from a guy declining, to changes on the team that effect him. Shouldn't he get credit for doing what was asked and not demanding a trade?

How many games do you watch? How many times have you seen Turner and Thompson? I watch a lot of BB, yet no where near enough to judge players not on the Celtics. So I go watch game tape. How do you explain his Defensive numbers? His post D is in those numbers. Good D on elite post scorers isn't shutting them down, it's making them work harder. You can play great D against Embiid and he still gets 35 and 15. He just had more turnovers, and shot 50%, compared to 65%. I've yet to see a player that can shut him down game after game after game. I have seen Turner block his shots multiple times and make him work crazy hard. I haven't seen him act like Kanter.

I have zero issues with Danny besides he always has to massively win trades. He's a great GM that I want around for decades if possible. This boils down to reading the tea leafs on why he didn't make the trade. He tried for too much not thinking Hayward would go to a crappy team or he didn't value Turner. Yet the reports were he wanted Turner plus, not he didn't want him at all. We'll never know for sure, Danny isn't going to admit if he overplayed his hand.

For those more statistically savvy than I am, would you please comment about the validity of the PIPM and PER stats? A player like Rozier is extremely poor in PIPM but respectable in PER. Is this just a reflection of a good player on a bad team or a bad player on a bad team?

It’s pretty obvious that Ainge really didn’t want Turner, at least not with that contract. He’s a pretty good - and extremely talented - player but there’s a lot of negative, Jeff Green-type criticism out there.

In Ainge’s mind, Thompson for two years and the full MLE is better value than Turner at his contract, unless the Pacers included someone like Dipo. You can disagree with him there (and I actually might), but I think the “greed” narrative makes less sense than he made a basketball decision. In any event, I trust Ainge’s basketball opinion over that bozo Merloni.

I've watched Marcus Smart get killed by elite players more times than I can count. I'm not going to say he's bad because Harden got 40 on him. That's what you're doing. Saying stats mean nothing because you watched some games were elite players had big games. That's what elite players do. It obviously doesn't happen every game or he'd have horrible defensive numbers.

The Pacers do worse without Turner when Sabonis plays.

You either watch every game or you have to use advanced rankings. 

Okay so a quick look at box scores, back to back games in January Drummond had 28/23 and 23/20, I see an Embiid game 27/16. So let's stop the Thompson can't get abused by elite big talk. That's why they're elite.

I knew that's where this would end up. You want that guy that looks like he can own the paint. It's not about D, it's more perception. It's okay Drummond's gets huge numbers, because Thompson has big numbers. That's not D though. A center also doesn't just play D against his man. Players like Theis, Gobert, Turner, etc impact on D is limiting easy buckets for all players. That doesn't show up in box scores besides blocks. It's like Horford and how so many people called him soft. He was great on D, not by owning the paint, yet he was a crazy good defender in his prime. I get it, yet a bunch of those monsters in the paint don't play great D.

I just really dont think we wanted Turner. We already have our 1st next year we dont need another 1st in the 20s that we get stuck offloading for 2 future protected 2nds.

Turner played him once last year that I could see looking quick, the others he was out injured and I'm not researching multiple seasons. The debate was D and somehow you think you play good D by putting up numbers. You've turned it into competing, not playing D. Nevermind you've literally proved my point by always focusing on a few bigs. There's only one Embiid and again a centers job is not just against his man, yet everyone else. What made Theis so good wasn't just his D on centers, it was always challenging everything in the paint.

I never said Thompson was bad on D, I actually pointed out his strength was against post players. Something you keep bringing up. Yet you keep overlooking the fact that there aren't many of those guys and D isn't just guarding elite scoring centers. Nevermind the offensive side of the equation where Turner adds floor spacing. Do we forget how teams left our bigs wide open all playoffs and crowded the paint to limit drives?

You want a monster in the paint? His name is Robert Williams and he's an actual shot blocker.

You bring up Jeff Green, which is fair. Yet Turner just had his age 23 season, so let's not act like he's Green, he's got ten years before that fits. The great Larry Bird said Turner could be great, I think his opinion means something.

Have a good Thanksgiving