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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on Jul 31, 2020 10:20:01 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheyman Brewers-Cardinsls game tonight postponed due to positive test Lol, just end the season already. Absolutely insane.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 31, 2020 11:11:44 GMT -5
I know there was some talk of a bubble for MLB, but that seems the only way to have a chance at dealing with the virus and playing games. Maybe I am wrong, but keeping the player movement / access under tight control seems the best way to stop a real spike in cases.
I hope football is watching. They would seem to have the same issue, if not more risk, because of the amount of players.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 31, 2020 12:09:22 GMT -5
Has there been any report on how the infected players and staff are doing? I mean, yeah, it sucks that games are getting cancelled, but I am more worried someone is going to be really ill.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 31, 2020 12:30:52 GMT -5
It seems rather simple, if you break the rules you get fined and have to quarantine without pay. Break the rules and cause an outbreak that puts others at risk your season is over without pay. Heck I might look at a one year suspension for conduct detramental to the game. Give everyone another chance to opt out. If your playing you can't go to bars, nightclubs, or strip clubs to pick up women or just have a good time. You have to wear masks while in Public. They need rules that actually have some bite, NFL already has rules like this before the season starts. Yet it's going to be much harder given the longer timeframe of a full NFL season.
The issues aren't from traveling, I've yet to see a case from that. It's the players wanting to have fun. Heck that's the issue with the whole Country. Even the NBA in its bubble has had issues with Lou Williams going to get Chicken Wings. Which turns out to be at a strip club, insert just because they have the best Wings joke.
They have to lay down strict rules. You can't have this during a Pandemic in sports where you can't social distance. The bad apples need to opt out or be kicked out. The random cases are going to be bad enough.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 31, 2020 12:41:00 GMT -5
It seems rather simple, if you break the rules you get fined and have to quarantine without pay. Break the rules and cause an outbreak that puts others at risk your season is over without pay. Heck I might look at a one year suspension for conduct detramental to the game. Give everyone another chance to opt out. If your playing you can't go to bars, nightclubs, or strip clubs to pick up women or just have a good time. You have to wear masks while in Public. They need rules that actually have some bite, NFL already has rules like this before the season starts. Yet it's going to be much harder given the longer timeframe of a full NFL season. The issues aren't from traveling, I've yet to see a case from that. It's the players wanting to have fun. Heck that's the issue with the whole Country. Even the NBA in its bubble has had issues with Lou Williams going to get Chicken Wings. Which turns out to be at a strip club, insert just because they have the best Wings joke. They have to lay down strict rules. You can't have this during a Pandemic in sports where you can't social distance. The bad apples need to opt out or be kicked out. The random cases are going to be bad enough. I'd say that seems a little too simple. You can't completely stop a virus with rules, at least so long as they insist on spreading these games all over the country, with the travel demands that involves. Obviously rules help, and maybe strict enforcement helps, but at the end of the day if you have 1500 people or whatever traveling around the country, there's just some amount of exposure to others that is inevitable, not to mention the players' families, which means there's some risk of getting covid that's inevitable. Are they gonna dock a player's salary if their wife shows up at a bar in an instagram pic? As for the cases being from "players wanting to have fun," do we know that? I saw some rumor here about the Marlins partying or something, but that's all I've seen.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 31, 2020 13:27:47 GMT -5
Yeah the problem is that you also don't want players who "break the rules" to not want to disclose what happened, because you need that information to contact trace, etc. And you can do everything right and still get COVID - the best practices are designed to lower (significantly) your chances of catching the virus, but it's not a cut down to zero.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 31, 2020 13:33:18 GMT -5
It seems rather simple, if you break the rules you get fined and have to quarantine without pay. Break the rules and cause an outbreak that puts others at risk your season is over without pay. Heck I might look at a one year suspension for conduct detramental to the game. Give everyone another chance to opt out. If your playing you can't go to bars, nightclubs, or strip clubs to pick up women or just have a good time. You have to wear masks while in Public. They need rules that actually have some bite, NFL already has rules like this before the season starts. Yet it's going to be much harder given the longer timeframe of a full NFL season. The issues aren't from traveling, I've yet to see a case from that. It's the players wanting to have fun. Heck that's the issue with the whole Country. Even the NBA in its bubble has had issues with Lou Williams going to get Chicken Wings. Which turns out to be at a strip club, insert just because they have the best Wings joke. They have to lay down strict rules. You can't have this during a Pandemic in sports where you can't social distance. The bad apples need to opt out or be kicked out. The random cases are going to be bad enough. I'd say that seems a little too simple. You can't completely stop a virus with rules, at least so long as they insist on spreading these games all over the country, with the travel demands that involves. Obviously rules help, and maybe strict enforcement helps, but at the end of the day if you have 1500 people or whatever traveling around the country, there's just some amount of exposure to others that is inevitable, not to mention the players' families, which means there's some risk of getting covid that's inevitable. Are they gonna dock a player's salary if their wife shows up at a bar in an instagram pic? As for the cases being from "players wanting to have fun," do we know that? I saw some rumor here about the Marlins partying or something, but that's all I've seen. You can't stop it completely no, yet you can greatly reduce the spread. This virus doesn't easily spread if you wear masks. Wife's Salon had a positive Covid customer that tested positive the day after getting a full color foil. She was in a salon with 40-50 people for two plus hours. Zero positive tests, yet a local party in Albany results in 60 plus cases because of no masks. I don't believe there is a huge risk while traveling if you wear masks and the other people also do it. I'm not saying it's zero, yet we all face risks everyday. Reports say at least one player went out and it could have been more. The Marlins when asked about it said we are gathering facts. Baseball made teams hire compliance officers and is now encouraging players to not leave there hotel rooms after this mess. I wonder why? It makes perfect sense no? You only do that if the report is right, not that travel caused it. Yes I would dock a player if his family was engaging in risky behavior that put peoples lives at risk. Heck I can't even wrap my head around the fact that bars are open during a Pandemic. You can't social distance and you can't wear masks while drinking. I wouldn't go to extreme levels with family members, but that's the only way this works. We need to worry about the ones that happen even if people are smart, not the ones from people being stupid. The choice to opt in is a family one, if you want to do whatever then opt out.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 31, 2020 14:06:43 GMT -5
I'd say that seems a little too simple. You can't completely stop a virus with rules, at least so long as they insist on spreading these games all over the country, with the travel demands that involves. Obviously rules help, and maybe strict enforcement helps, but at the end of the day if you have 1500 people or whatever traveling around the country, there's just some amount of exposure to others that is inevitable, not to mention the players' families, which means there's some risk of getting covid that's inevitable. Are they gonna dock a player's salary if their wife shows up at a bar in an instagram pic? As for the cases being from "players wanting to have fun," do we know that? I saw some rumor here about the Marlins partying or something, but that's all I've seen. You can't stop it completely no, yet you can greatly reduce the spread. This virus doesn't easily spread if you wear masks. Wife's Salon had a positive Covid customer that tested positive the day after getting a full color foil. She was in a salon with 40-50 people for two plus hours. Zero positive tests, yet a local party in Albany results in 60 plus cases because of no masks. I don't believe there is a huge risk while traveling if you wear masks and the other people also do it. I'm not saying it's zero, yet we all face risks everyday. Reports say at least one player went out and it could have been more. The Marlins when asked about it said we are gathering facts. Baseball made teams hire compliance officers and is now encouraging players to not leave there hotel rooms after this mess. I wonder why? It makes perfect sense no? You only do that if the report is right, not that travel caused it. Yes I would dock a player if his family was engaging in risky behavior that put peoples lives at risk. Heck I can't even wrap my head around the fact that bars are open during a Pandemic. You can't social distance and you can't wear masks while drinking. I wouldn't go to extreme levels with family members, but that's the only way this works. We need to worry about the ones that happen even if people are smart, not the ones from people being stupid. The choice to opt in is a family one, if you want to do whatever then opt out. Yeah, I reckon I wouldn't disagree with any of that. The question, I guess, is whether even the best system of precautions will be enough when we're in the midst of major outbreak across much of the nation. One piece of context: here is an estimate that about 2% of the population is currently infected. 1 in 50 people. If anything, they're disproportionately young. So again, when you have 1500 people traveling all over the country, some amount of exposure is just going to happen, no matter what you do. (And you also have to take into consideration that no group of 1500 people is going to follow all the rules all the time; that's just not a realistic expectation.)
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 31, 2020 15:58:04 GMT -5
Has there been any report on how the infected players and staff are doing? I mean, yeah, it sucks that games are getting cancelled, but I am more worried someone is going to be really ill. That is the biggest issue. There is such extreme variability in the response that it boggles the mind. Someone who grew up here and moved to a nursing position one state over died leaving behind four children. She was 45 years old, and very healthy. After a week with a wide range of symptoms she asked to be taken to the hospital. The virus had made its way into the heart and that's what got her. Serious complications at a younger age are rarer but they happen. MLB needs to stay on top of it for that reason and for the general health of players and staff. They do not want to visit a crippling or deadly episode with this thing.
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Post by jkfer98 on Jul 31, 2020 16:12:44 GMT -5
Hard to disagree with Manfred here. The players have seemed a bit lax on the protocols, with the high-fiving, spitting, etc. - all things that can definitely be controlled.
Obviously there are inherent risks and a degree of randomness that comes with playing sports during a pandemic. But let that dictate the course of the season. If the players do everything right and the virus still has a major impact, then it wasn't meant to be.
At the same time, testing guys every other day and not getting the results back for a day or two isn't sustainable if you want the season to carry on in a somewhat normal fashion. Major League Baseball needs to step it up with the testing or just accept the fact that it's not going to work.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 31, 2020 17:14:32 GMT -5
Yeah the problem is that you also don't want players who "break the rules" to not want to disclose what happened, because you need that information to contact trace, etc. And you can do everything right and still get COVID - the best practices are designed to lower (significantly) your chances of catching the virus, but it's not a cut down to zero.That may be true, but Manfred telling the players directly he will cancel the season leads me to believe he has inside information about non-compliance.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 31, 2020 22:50:08 GMT -5
At some point, player and coach safety needs to be the priority over the dollars.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2020 23:09:06 GMT -5
Scott Miller @scottmillerbbl · 6h #MLB internal investigation found the #Marlins were very lapse in following protocols during Atlanta trip last weekend, players going out, players in hotel bar, etc. Lots of MLB people very unhappy with Miami
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 1, 2020 8:46:53 GMT -5
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Post by bluechip on Aug 1, 2020 11:44:25 GMT -5
Scott Miller @scottmillerbbl · 6h #MLB internal investigation found the #Marlins were very lapse in following protocols during Atlanta trip last weekend, players going out, players in hotel bar, etc. Lots of MLB people very unhappy with Miami This is the issue. The best systems breakdown because people do not actually follow protocol. Basketball has only worked because the NBA actively policing its players.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2020 11:47:01 GMT -5
A week into the season and a fifth of the league is suspended. This is going great!
Really seems to me that not going with a bubble plan was the original sin here.
ADD: Re: bluechip's point and my bubble comment... what the bubble does is make it easier to enforce the rules by simplifying the situation. The NBA set up a context where the whole league was confined to a single site that could be closely monitored and managed; MLB set up a context where 30 teams are nomadically wandering a plague-stricken land.
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patford
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Post by patford on Aug 1, 2020 11:50:39 GMT -5
At this point MLB should just immediately move to a World Series between the Yankees and Dodgers and try to get in seven sudden death games where the each game begins with a runner on second base and there is a moat filled with alligators between third and home.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2020 11:58:59 GMT -5
Scott Miller @scottmillerbbl · 6h #MLB internal investigation found the #Marlins were very lapse in following protocols during Atlanta trip last weekend, players going out, players in hotel bar, etc. Lots of MLB people very unhappy with Miami I suppose one way to look at this is that it's Derek Jeter's fault.
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Post by jdb on Aug 1, 2020 12:04:45 GMT -5
Man it would be a huge disappointment if the whole season ended bc a group of marlins couldn’t stay out of the club and the Cardinals players went to a casino. It seems so many players are doing everything in their power to use common sense with Rosenthall reporting last night only .2 of test are positive.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 1, 2020 12:32:30 GMT -5
Scott Miller @scottmillerbbl · 6h #MLB internal investigation found the #Marlins were very lapse in following protocols during Atlanta trip last weekend, players going out, players in hotel bar, etc. Lots of MLB people very unhappy with Miami No surprise there.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 1, 2020 12:53:44 GMT -5
What venue gives you enough fields and space to play all the games, like 16 a day? Plus games for your taxi players, while allowing you to have strict security? That's a huge difference between the NBA and the MLB. There's not an easy option like the NBA had. There are no venues were you can basically lock players inside and have them live and play games. Nevermind the difference between 8 games and playoffs of limited teams, vs all teams for 60 games and expanded playoffs. That's just way more teams being locked up for a longer period of time.
Nevermind the downside with a bubble is if it gets in, the season is over. You'd have the Marlins type thing for the whole NBA not just one team. The NBA bubble likely works because after eight games it's the playoffs and most players will be gone within a what a month?
It's not that you can't travel and in bigger terms have our economy open. It's just people being stupid. Hence why you need strict rules with suspensions.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2020 13:09:26 GMT -5
What venue gives you enough fields and space to play all the games, like 16 a day? Plus games for your taxi players, while allowing you to have strict security? That's a huge difference between the NBA and the MLB. There's not an easy option like the NBA had. There are no venues were you can basically lock players inside and have them live and play games. Nevermind the difference between 8 games and playoffs of limited teams, vs all teams for 60 games and expanded playoffs. That's just way more teams being locked up for a longer period of time. Nevermind the downside with a bubble is if it gets in, the season is over. You'd have the Marlins type thing for the whole NBA not just one team. The NBA bubble likely works because after eight games it's the playoffs and most players will be gone within a what a month? It's not that you can't travel and in bigger terms have our economy open. It's just people being stupid. Hence why you need strict rules with suspensions. Well again, people not being stupid doesn't make the risk go to 0. And you also can't realistically count on every single one of a couple thousand people to never be stupid. And yeah, it might be the case that the bubble logistics for MLB simply couldn't work. But for a while there they were talking about doing it in Arizona, so it was at least on the table. Or they could've done 3 bubbles, since the schedules were divided between east/central/west anyway. What I heard some reporter saying is that the players basically nixed the bubble idea because they didn't want to be away from their families for that long. That suggests it was just a preference of the players, not a logistical issue.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 1, 2020 13:14:26 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 1, 2020 13:39:07 GMT -5
What venue gives you enough fields and space to play all the games, like 16 a day? Plus games for your taxi players, while allowing you to have strict security? That's a huge difference between the NBA and the MLB. There's not an easy option like the NBA had. There are no venues were you can basically lock players inside and have them live and play games. Nevermind the difference between 8 games and playoffs of limited teams, vs all teams for 60 games and expanded playoffs. That's just way more teams being locked up for a longer period of time. Nevermind the downside with a bubble is if it gets in, the season is over. You'd have the Marlins type thing for the whole NBA not just one team. The NBA bubble likely works because after eight games it's the playoffs and most players will be gone within a what a month? It's not that you can't travel and in bigger terms have our economy open. It's just people being stupid. Hence why you need strict rules with suspensions. Well again, people not being stupid doesn't make the risk go to 0. And you also can't realistically count on every single one of a couple thousand people to never be stupid. And yeah, it might be the case that the bubble logistics for MLB simply couldn't work. But for a while there they were talking about doing it in Arizona, so it was at least on the table. Or they could've done 3 bubbles, since the schedules were divided between east/central/west anyway. What I heard some reporter saying is that the players basically nixed the bubble idea because they didn't want to be away from their families for that long. That suggests it was just a preference of the players, not a logistical issue. Who said it was zero? You have risks everyday going to work, the supermarkets and places like Walmart. We aren't seeing any cases related to travel. This is players going out, going to bars and now Casinos. Hence you need a deterrent, a big one and teams actually policing players. I'm sure a few random events might happen over months and months. You can deal with that. You can't deal with tons of players being stupid in every city they go to. You need the ability to suspend these guys and it needs to be big. The MLB dropped the ball. More time fighting about money than actually planning a system that could work. Players being stupid was always the issue, not traveling. Can you imagine how many guys are doing this? We only know about the ones you got Covid, not the ones that didn't. There are sites where you could do it. There aren't any sites where you can easily just lock players in a complex and easily monitor them like the NBA.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 1, 2020 13:46:43 GMT -5
This Country needs a Covid-19 hookup app. Two negative tests needed before any date. I'm only half joking.🤣
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