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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 3, 2020 16:52:59 GMT -5
From everything I've seen there won't be heard immunity. Just like the Flu, you might have it for that flu season, but it doesn't last long-term. If that's the case then there will never be a vaccine either, right? sports.yahoo.com/should-teams-actively-seek-herd-immunity-from-the-coronavirus-234449908.htmlI have no clue about a vaccine, just passing along the fact almost all experts have moved past the heard immunity theory because the antibodies just aren't lasting long as the article points out. Personally I'm watching the treatment methods and placing my hope there more than a Vaccine that even if they can produce one could take years.
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dd
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Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Jul 3, 2020 21:53:31 GMT -5
the whole world seems surreal. There won't be CoVid normality until herd immunity and who knows what that will look like and when that will be. On a baseball note, I am starting to feel terribly depressed with the realization that Mookie Betts is not going to be on our squad From everything I've seen there won't be heard immunity. Just like the Flu, you might have it for that flu season, but it doesn't last long-term. I've seen from a couple of sources recently that Covid, unlike the flu, is a slow mutating virus. It is much larger than flu viruses (which one would think would allow it to mutate faster) but it has a protein (I think) that serves as a sort of spell-checker when RNA strands are copied. My non-medical grade understanding is there's a good chance that when a vaccine is available it will be effective against strains of this virus across many seasons. Nobody's going to know for sure until it happens though.
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Post by borisman on Jul 4, 2020 10:00:54 GMT -5
From everything I've seen there won't be heard immunity. Just like the Flu, you might have it for that flu season, but it doesn't last long-term. If that's the case then there will never be a vaccine either, right? Considering that Mass. Gov. Baker won't open bars, nightclubs and large venue settings until there is a vaccine means there better be a vaccine. Mass. is doing great in covid cases but the gutless Gov. won't open the state completely. Even if there is a vaccine not sure they can make you take one. I always refuse a flu shot so I'll refuse this as well. Back to restarting baseball, which Sox player tested positive for covid? I know info is confidential but sometimes players come out and admit it or there is leakage.
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Post by hongkyongnae on Jul 4, 2020 10:53:38 GMT -5
If that's the case then there will never be a vaccine either, right? Considering that Mass. Gov. Baker won't open bars, nightclubs and large venue settings until there is a vaccine means there better be a vaccine. Mass. is doing great in covid cases but the gutless Gov. won't open the state completely. Even if there is a vaccine not sure they can make you take one. I always refuse a flu shot so I'll refuse this as well. Back to restarting baseball, which Sox player tested positive for covid? I know info is confidential but sometimes players come out and admit it or there is leakage. The points in bold are not unrelated. I live in Texas for now and we are undergoing a total disaster since the governor refused to listen to scientists. The reopening was done in a haphazard fashion, lacked consistent guidance from the state, was done half-heartedly, and reopened too soon. There were over 7,500 NEW cases just yesterday. Further, the state government has put up barriers to getting testing (photo ID, phone number, email and more are mandatory) which pushes away tens of thousands of people who are poor here. They will become untracked spreaders. Be happy your state is "doing great". Congratulations.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Jul 4, 2020 12:23:34 GMT -5
If that's the case then there will never be a vaccine either, right? Considering that Mass. Gov. Baker won't open bars, nightclubs and large venue settings until there is a vaccine means there better be a vaccine. Mass. is doing great in covid cases but the gutless Gov. won't open the state completely. Even if there is a vaccine not sure they can make you take one. I always refuse a flu shot so I'll refuse this as well. Back to restarting baseball, which Sox player tested positive for covid? I know info is confidential but sometimes players come out and admit it or there is leakage. If this becomes a site where people come to boast about not taking vaccines I’m out. I know it’s hard to resist throwing that in when you are discussing baseball but please let’s keep that to yourself
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Post by dyoungteach on Jul 4, 2020 12:55:07 GMT -5
No kidding. Let’s brag about not taking a shot, say recovery is great, but yet call a governor gutless?? Just doesn’t add up. Let’s value lives and lives of players giving us entertainment over some alt right agenda.
Back to baseball- I highly doubt the game begins and ends if stats keep exploding. For YEARS this game has pushed the political barriers and United America. Here’s hoping it continues this year because we badly need it. ( which in itself is a sad statement to make )
So let’s go and hope we are back to playing and more importantly that nobody becomes hospitalized or worse from playing
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 4, 2020 13:00:23 GMT -5
Darwinzon (still in VZ) and Josh Taylor (during intake, quarantined in hotel now) have tested positive for COVID-19. ERod is awaiting his test results after being exposed to someone with COVID - he's back home as well.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 4, 2020 14:20:57 GMT -5
No kidding. Let’s brag about not taking a shot, say recovery is great, but yet call a governor gutless?? Just doesn’t add up. Let’s value lives and lives of players giving us entertainment over some alt right agenda. Back to baseball- I highly doubt the game begins and ends if stats keep exploding. For YEARS this game has pushed the political barriers and United America. Here’s hoping it continues this year because we badly need it. ( which in itself is a sad statement to make ) So let’s go and hope we are back to playing and more importantly that nobody becomes hospitalized or worse from playing The more I hear about some of the nasty effects of this virus even for sufferers who aren't hospitalized, the more concerned I get. I highly recommend this thread by someone who's had some rather frightening symptoms that have lasted for three months already. There are also indications that even asymptomatic people have experienced lung damage, and in an earlier comment I mentioned that some people are apparently suffering brain damage. Will these symptoms lead to long-lasting effects, like chronic illness or even early-onset dementia years down the line? How many people will they affect? I don't think we have any idea! My worry is that the way we're thinking about this is: we need to avoid deaths, but so long as people survive it's all good. But that is totally discounting an awful lot of potential suffering, and perhaps many years of life lost in the long run. So say no ballplayer or a coach dies from covid, but some of them do suffer these sort of long-lasting effects that could potentially aversely affect their careers. Will it have been worth it? Should we be making this bet without even knowing what the stakes are? And for anyone who doesn't want to war a mask or get a vaccine when it becomes available, I would again recommend that thread linked to above, and ask that you reflect on the fact that by your actions you're making it more likely that other people suffer like that. Maybe you're not worried about it for your own sake but what about others?
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 4, 2020 14:34:56 GMT -5
If that's the case then there will never be a vaccine either, right? Considering that Mass. Gov. Baker won't open bars, nightclubs and large venue settings until there is a vaccine means there better be a vaccine. Mass. is doing great in covid cases but the gutless Gov. won't open the state completely. Even if there is a vaccine not sure they can make you take one. I always refuse a flu shot so I'll refuse this as well. Back to restarting baseball, which Sox player tested positive for covid? I know info is confidential but sometimes players come out and admit it or there is leakage. The reason that Mass, N.H., Vermont, Maine, N.Y. have done well is because of their governors and not in spite of them. Hats off. In Florida we had another record day with almost 11,500 new cases as dollars trump illness. As Dr. Fauci says, there is a terrible nationwide shunning of science to the point where anti-vaxers may keep the virus going by not getting vaccinated. Without a vaccine Covid immunity may be short or weak especially in less serious cases. So many diseases have been neutralized thru vaccination, it's hard to accept denial. I am still feeling that baseball this year will not play the full schedule. Given how easily Covid spreads, I could see a situation where 1 or 2 guys in close proximity to others infect a good portion of the roster...such as we've seen in church gatherings. The situation is uncharted and fluid.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 4, 2020 15:01:49 GMT -5
... The reason that Mass, N.H., Vermont, Maine, N.Y. have done well is because of their governors and not in spite of them. Hats off. In Florida we had another record day with almost 11,500 new cases as dollars trump illness. As Dr. Fauci says, there is a terrible nationwide shunning of science to the point where anti-vaxers may keep the virus going by not getting vaccinated. Without a vaccine Covid immunity may be short or weak especially in less serious cases. So many diseases have been neutralized thru vaccination, it's hard to accept denial. I am still feeling that baseball this year will not play the full schedule. Given how easily Covid spreads, I could see a situation where 1 or 2 guys in close proximity to others infect a good portion of the roster...such as we've seen in church gatherings. The situation is uncharted and fluid. Exactly. Here in Oregon, there was resistance from those who insisted everything should get back to normal because the State had been so successful. A local judge for one of the circuit courts tried to strike down the Governor's order for church gatherings. That was thrown out by the Oregon Supreme Court but the damage had been done. One congregation completely ignored all of the health authority guidelines. The result was a disaster with hundreds infected. A friend just lost his brother who had no idea where he got the virus, so it's been circulating in the community. It took only three weeks to go from a healthy individual to the grave. It's best if we not fool ourselves about this.
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Post by borisman on Jul 4, 2020 15:04:14 GMT -5
Considering that Mass. Gov. Baker won't open bars, nightclubs and large venue settings until there is a vaccine means there better be a vaccine. Mass. is doing great in covid cases but the gutless Gov. won't open the state completely. Even if there is a vaccine not sure they can make you take one. I always refuse a flu shot so I'll refuse this as well. Back to restarting baseball, which Sox player tested positive for covid? I know info is confidential but sometimes players come out and admit it or there is leakage. The reason that Mass, N.H., Vermont, Maine, N.Y. have done well is because of their governors and not in spite of them. Hats off. In Florida we had another record day with almost 11,500 new cases as dollars trump illness. As Dr. Fauci says, there is a terrible nationwide shunning of science to the point where anti-vaxers may keep the virus going by not getting vaccinated. Without a vaccine Covid immunity may be short or weak especially in less serious cases. So many diseases have been neutralized thru vaccination, it's hard to accept denial. I am still feeling that baseball this year will not play the full schedule. Given how easily Covid spreads, I could see a situation where 1 or 2 guys in close proximity to others infect a good portion of the roster...such as we've seen in church gatherings. The situation is uncharted and fluid. I wish I didn't post about it as I knew this is how it'd turn out so a quicky and I'm finished here. I'm not saying it's time to move on to phase 4 (do not want to see the bars open..it's how the other states got it...I get it) but the restrictions are a little over the top. I don't see why, say a poker room, can't open with tables spread apart, people wearing masks and seat only 6 players, instead of 9 or 10, at a table. It's not that complicated. Mass. has less than 10k active cases. People are being smart. They can be smart by evolving as well. I'm also sorry to hear about others here living in states where this virus took a turn for the worse. Edit: Happy 4th and stay safe everybody!
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Post by manfred on Jul 4, 2020 15:26:30 GMT -5
Honest question: do we really expect this season (even at 60 games) to happen? Everything is going the wrong way — before July 4th parties.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 4, 2020 15:30:44 GMT -5
... I wish I didn't post about it as I knew this is how it'd turn out so a quicky and I'm finished here. I'm not saying it's time to move on to phase 4 (do not want to see the bars open..it's how the other states got it...I get it) but the restrictions are a little over the top. I don't see why, say a poker room, can't open with tables spread apart, people wearing masks and seat only 6 players, instead of 9 or 10, at a table. It's not that complicated. Mass. has less than 10k active cases. People are being smart. They can be smart by evolving as well. I'm also sorry to hear about others here living in states where this virus took a turn for the worse. Edit: Happy 4th and stay safe everybody! I understand. Some in the economics community have suggested restrictions that were more carefully tailored - by region and by business type. I've wondered about the best way to walk that line myself. It's been really difficult for many workers because we rely exclusively on un-employement here in the States. We do need to cut government some slack in dealing with this thing in such a fine-grained way, though. They, and the medical community and health authorities they rely on for advice, have been deciphering the virus and its effects on the fly. That's not surprising for a global threat that only happens every one hundred years or so.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 4, 2020 20:52:52 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jul 5, 2020 9:04:58 GMT -5
As Dr. Fauci says, there is a terrible nationwide shunning of science to the point where anti-vaxers may keep the virus going by not getting vaccinated. There used to be this country where they would have referred to this as "freedom of choice". Choices have consequences. Fine, don’t get vaccinated. But then you should not be allowed in schools, in public gatherings, etc. Jefferson said he didn’t care about his neighbor’s beliefs as long as they neither picked his pocket nor broke his arm. Well, anti-vaxxers do hurt their neighbors, so they are outside the bounds of that Jeffersonian freedom.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 5, 2020 9:44:33 GMT -5
As Dr. Fauci says, there is a terrible nationwide shunning of science to the point where anti-vaxers may keep the virus going by not getting vaccinated. There used to be this country where they would have referred to this as "freedom of choice". Oh heck. There is freedom of choice. In this case a good many who decide not to get vaccinated, if and when, are eschewing science and assuming risk. "Live free or die". Some don't believe in the science underlying the efficacy of vaccines or for whatever reason, feel that they are harmful. Polio, measles, mumps, small pox, tetanus, rubella, typhoid, etc. had essentially been eliminated as scourges. There are now outbreaks in people not vaccinated. To Dr. Fauci who has devoted his life to the science of healing medicine, this is disturbing. I've heard a couple of disgruntled people say, akin to mask wearing, 'let the fans come to the games'! If people are afraid of getting sick, they can stay home'. But until we get effective prevention, baseball and all sports as we have come to know them, will be a shadow of what has been.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 5, 2020 10:16:59 GMT -5
There used to be this country where they would have referred to this as "freedom of choice". A global public health issue holds more weight than a glimpsed version of what freedom of choice means.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 5, 2020 10:30:31 GMT -5
From ESPN: It's one of the great medical mysteries of this and perhaps any other century: why some people can be completely without symptoms, while others have it passed to them and they get flattened. Freeman will be out for a while apparently.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 5, 2020 12:08:44 GMT -5
Choices have consequences. Fine, don’t get vaccinated. But then you should not be allowed in schools, in public gatherings, etc. Jefferson said he didn’t care about his neighbor’s beliefs as long as they neither picked his pocket nor broke his arm. Well, anti-vaxxers do hurt their neighbors, so they are outside the bounds of that Jeffersonian freedom. Public places have always been enter at your own risk, but looking forward to the Patriot Act style legislation that will take care of that as soon as a vaccine is found. I'm pro vaccine, but a little unnerved about where this conversation is headed. Vaccination requirements (which are still hypothetical) are nothing like the institutionalization of covert state surveillance. They're like laws against drunk driving, which do indeed compromise your "freedom to choose" to drive drunk, on the very reasonable grounds that your doing so would threaten the life of everyone around you.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 5, 2020 13:31:26 GMT -5
So, this is the battle of the century, a WWE special: individual freedom vs. community transmission. Place your bets. It's a Rorschach test and it's all about team-building.
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Post by p23w on Jul 5, 2020 14:39:40 GMT -5
So, this is the battle of the century, a WWE special: individual freedom vs. community transmission. Place your bets. It's a Rorschach test and it's all about team-building. Reminds me of a Rod Sterling episode of the Twilight Zone. Those with better immune systems flourish, those with compromised immune systems don't (flourish). Nature is conducting this team building exercise.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 5, 2020 15:27:34 GMT -5
Again. Baseball website. Let's talk baseball. Thanks.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 5, 2020 15:29:33 GMT -5
You'll want to read the ESPN story about Freeman. He's young, he's been very healthy, and now he's quite sick. The compromise seems to extend well beyond the immune system.
He's one of four on the team who tested positive. There's going to be a bit of attrition this season.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Jul 6, 2020 10:08:47 GMT -5
Sorry if this is not the right place for this, but as we wait to see if we will really have baseball, I am really enjoying this baseball novel about a dystopian future of haves and have-nots, where one of the have-nots is a teenage girl with a golden left arm and “exceptionally long fingers” which reminded me of Pedro. www.amazon.com/Resisters-novel-Gish-Jen/dp/0525657215/ref=nodl_
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 6, 2020 10:35:09 GMT -5
So, this is the battle of the century, a WWE special: individual freedom vs. community transmission. Place your bets. It's a Rorschach test and it's all about team-building. Reminds me of a Rod Sterling episode of the Twilight Zone. Those with better immune systems flourish, those with compromised immune systems don't (flourish). Nature is conducting this team building exercise. As get older immune system weakens and other health issues don't help any either. Why see more deaths among the elderly. We see more younger people ignoring the warnings and doing what they want with this issue, taking for granted their strong immunity will take care of any situation. I remember when was younger would ignore issues because of that. Placing myself with some where shouldn't, like with a friend who had a measles variant hadn't had for same reason younger ones now flock to bars, beaches, parties and other places they have -0- business being and greater chance of contracting the virus and can easily pass it on.
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