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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 6, 2020 12:00:56 GMT -5
All of these coaches are at risk to die from this. Is baseball worth someones life? All its going to take is someone like Dusty Baker dying (picked him since he's probably the oldest manager in the league) to stop this. Stay the F home! This isn't worth it. Very few things are worth going out of your house for. Definitely not this. Too much risk to give people a nice little distraction.
Can you imagine JD Martinez being asymptomatic and spreading this to his wife and children? That could happen! Maybe not JD but anyone who comes into the controlled environment is still a risk. Save people from themselves. But once a cure is found then I'll enjoy watching baseball again. A game is not worth dying over. This is a very deadly pandemic. Not smart.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 6, 2020 12:09:50 GMT -5
Nick Markakis has opted out of the season after speaking with Freddie Freeman.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 6, 2020 12:13:23 GMT -5
Reminds me of a Rod Sterling episode of the Twilight Zone. Those with better immune systems flourish, those with compromised immune systems don't (flourish). Nature is conducting this team building exercise. As get older immune system weakens and other health issues don't help any either. Why see more deaths among the elderly. We see more younger people ignoring the warnings and doing what they want with this issue, taking for granted their strong immunity will take care of any situation. I remember when was younger would ignore issues because of that. Placing myself with some where shouldn't, like with a friend who had a measles variant hadn't had for same reason younger ones now flock to bars, beaches, parties and other places they have -0- business being and greater chance of contracting the virus and can easily pass it on. Why do we need to keep hearing about the younger generation and danger to us? Seems to me we have to live our lives in the US as we see fit no matter the age. I'm tired of listening to this when it has no bearing on baseball here. I'm old too and I'm going to live my life as I see fit also. Seems to me that this virus is here to stay and until 80% of the population gets it (herd immunity) or a vaccine is developed to slow it we are stuck with protecting ourselves as individuals and as we see fit. I want to see MLB baseball and if some don't want to play and others do well so be it. I pay to watch it and will still pay with or without the Prices, Verlanders, Betts, oir who ever. There are lots of young people that want to be in MLB it appears so if they want to play I would rather watch them then totally money hungry individuals who don't any day.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2020 12:32:00 GMT -5
All of these coaches are at risk to die from this. Is baseball worth someones life? All its going to take is someone like Dusty Baker dying (picked him since he's probably the oldest manager in the league) to stop this. Stay the F home! This isn't worth it. Very few things are worth going out of your house for. Definitely not this. Too much risk to give people a nice little distraction. Can you imagine JD Martinez being asymptomatic and spreading this to his wife and children? That could happen! Maybe not JD but anyone who comes into the controlled environment is still a risk. Save people from themselves. But once a cure is found then I'll enjoy watching baseball again. A game is not worth dying over. This is a very deadly pandemic. Not smart. Professional sports is a multi billion dollar business. It's people's jobs. If you don't want to play than don't. Yet tens of millions of Americans go to work everyday. They have too or the whole US economy will collapse. I'd just like to note that a ton of people have jobs related to Baseball that aren't multi millionaires like the players. The players and their families just need to be smart. No bars, huge public gatherings, wear masks in Public and stay away from people that aren't being tested. People need to stop being stupid, yet the only thing worse than this virus is killing our economy. That will hurt more people than the virus will!
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 6, 2020 12:54:10 GMT -5
That 2 paragraphs is key. Go to work, those jobs needed and then home! no partying, hanging with groups for nonsense.. How to get through thick heads? So many people now will do the opposite of what is told/best however. It's been proven over the last few weeks in graphic detail across several cities.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 6, 2020 12:55:22 GMT -5
Nick Markakis has opted out of the season after speaking with Freddie Freeman. Again, let's keep it to baseball - not politics, or the economics. There are endless viewpoints for both of those and it isn't that kind of board. I'm not surprised about Markakis. He was very concerned about the loss of Freeman. That's 70 career wins out of the Atlanta lineup. They have a bit of depth and that will help. But I expect we'll see more players heading for the door this season.
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Post by manfred on Jul 6, 2020 13:49:32 GMT -5
As a few name players drop out, I am wondering what happens if, say, Trout or Judge or some other huge star took a pass. First, does it open a floodgate; and second, at what point does the season become pointless?
I want baseball back, but not if it is basically a daily report on who is sick, who is sitting etc. And I certainly dread the possibility of someone dying or being permanently disabled (let’s bear in mind there remain many questions anout long-term ling capacity, etc).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 6, 2020 14:53:15 GMT -5
As a few name players drop out, I am wondering what happens if, say, Trout or Judge or some other huge star took a pass. First, does it open a floodgate; and second, at what point does the season become pointless? I want baseball back, but not if it is basically a daily report on who is sick, who is sitting etc. And I certainly dread the possibility of someone dying or being permanently disabled (let’s bear in mind there remain many questions anout long-term ling capacity, etc). From reports I've seen most players want a season. The majority of the players don't make mega bucks and need money. So I don't see the floodgates opening. Just my two cents but Baseball isn't Basketball, it can easily withstand a bunch of high profile players opting out. You would hardly miss them, yet in BB it would crush the sport if ten big names like LeBron, Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, Leonard, etc didn't play. The best Baseball player can't even get his team into the playoffs, the best Basketball players can make his team a true title contender.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 6, 2020 15:01:28 GMT -5
As get older immune system weakens and other health issues don't help any either. Why see more deaths among the elderly. We see more younger people ignoring the warnings and doing what they want with this issue, taking for granted their strong immunity will take care of any situation. I remember when was younger would ignore issues because of that. Placing myself with some where shouldn't, like with a friend who had a measles variant hadn't had for same reason younger ones now flock to bars, beaches, parties and other places they have -0- business being and greater chance of contracting the virus and can easily pass it on. Why do we need to keep hearing about the younger generation and danger to us? Seems to me we have to live our lives in the US as we see fit no matter the age. I'm tired of listening to this when it has no bearing on baseball here. I'm old too and I'm going to live my life as I see fit also. Seems to me that this virus is here to stay and until 80% of the population gets it (herd immunity) or a vaccine is developed to slow it we are stuck with protecting ourselves as individuals and as we see fit. I want to see MLB baseball and if some don't want to play and others do well so be it. I pay to watch it and will still pay with or without the Prices, Verlanders, Betts, oir who ever. There are lots of young people that want to be in MLB it appears so if they want to play I would rather watch them then totally money hungry individuals who don't any day. I think we all want to see baseball. TBD on Trout. JD, given his concerns with asthma, could clearly be a casualty should teammates become infected (which seems almost inevitable). Some player noted that it may be the team that stays the healthiest from Covid that wins. Alarmingly there is real doubt of herd immunity given a just published study from Spain where only 5% evidenced continued antibody protection..If that holds we have to hope for a vaccine that confers longer protection than the virus itself. I attached the article below. I think one reason that the U.S. has been unable to snuff Covid is the attitude that 'it's my life and nobody can tell me what to do' i.e. wear a mask. www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/spain-coronavirus-antibody-study-lancet-intl/index.html
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Post by incandenza on Jul 6, 2020 18:52:31 GMT -5
Why do we need to keep hearing about the younger generation and danger to us? Seems to me we have to live our lives in the US as we see fit no matter the age. I'm tired of listening to this when it has no bearing on baseball here. I'm old too and I'm going to live my life as I see fit also. Seems to me that this virus is here to stay and until 80% of the population gets it (herd immunity) or a vaccine is developed to slow it we are stuck with protecting ourselves as individuals and as we see fit. I want to see MLB baseball and if some don't want to play and others do well so be it. I pay to watch it and will still pay with or without the Prices, Verlanders, Betts, oir who ever. There are lots of young people that want to be in MLB it appears so if they want to play I would rather watch them then totally money hungry individuals who don't any day. I think we all want to see baseball. TBD on Trout. JD, given his concerns with asthma, could clearly be a casualty should teammates become infected (which seems almost inevitable). Some player noted that it may be the team that stays the healthiest from Covid that wins. Alarmingly there is real doubt of herd immunity given a just published study from Spain where only 5% evidenced continued antibody protection..If that holds we have to hope for a vaccine that confers longer protection than the virus itself. I attached the article below. I think one reason that the U.S. has been unable to snuff Covid is the attitude that 'it's my life and nobody can tell me what to do' i.e. wear a mask. www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/spain-coronavirus-antibody-study-lancet-intl/index.htmlThat article is saying, essentially, that only 5% of Spaniards have gotten covid, not that some larger number has gotten it but lost their immunity. I think the evidence leans toward the notion that getting the disease does allow one to develop immunity that lasts at least for the medium-term; it just hasn't been around long enough for us to know about the long-term yet. Now then as for BASEBALL... I see fangraphs has the Sox projected to go 32-28 and finish only 3 games behind the Yankees. That's definitely within the few-lucky-bounces margin! And a 38% shot to make the playoffs, which ain't too shabby...
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Post by incandenza on Jul 6, 2020 19:48:22 GMT -5
Some grumbling about how the testing process hasn't exactly been flawless so far...
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 6, 2020 20:02:54 GMT -5
Well we have a different interpretation of the article. For us all, I hope that I am wrong.
Our greatest nation on earth currently has the highest number of infections, hospitalizations and deaths. We're Number 1! Should we be proud?
By any measure, we have done a terrible job. We have tested the 4th most people per capita. Great. But we have 25% of the world's cases with only 4% of it's population. That's good? Our "positively rate" continues to rise.
I'm betting that there will be fits and starts in this baseball season.,.perhaps AAA subs in games.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 6, 2020 20:25:27 GMT -5
Diekman's assessment is stark, and he's on target when he states that waiting 4-5 days for test results is useless. That is the bottleneck in many places including here in Oregon. Labs are simply overloaded given the explosive rise in the case load across the country. So having a good testing rate becomes secondary if you can't get those results in hand quickly. Otherwise you have live virus walking around.
Given the pushback the NBA faced when they were getting everyone tested, MLB may be trying hard not to jump the line. It's a no-win situation.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 6, 2020 23:39:32 GMT -5
Diekman's assessment is stark, and he's on target when he states that waiting 4-5 days for test results is useless. That is the bottleneck in many places including here in Oregon. Labs are simply overloaded given the explosive rise in the case load across the country. So having a good testing rate becomes secondary if you can't get those results in hand quickly. Otherwise you have live virus walking around. Given the pushback the NBA faced when they were getting everyone tested, MLB may be trying hard not to jump the line. It's a no-win situation. Oregon Health and Science University runs two testing locations in the Portland area, one at the minor league ballpark in Hillsboro. Any OHSU patient with some symptoms can get tested for free. I did at the ballpark without any line. I got my negative result the next day.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 7, 2020 0:06:21 GMT -5
Glad to hear that. Where we are test results can take days. Here's something relevant from the NY Times:
I think it depends on where you are. That may be what MLB is facing.
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Post by Coreno on Jul 7, 2020 7:12:42 GMT -5
A quick look at the "Staff Twitter Feed" section of the homepage would suggest it's about 50/50. Twitter is not a baseball website.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 7, 2020 7:31:52 GMT -5
Some grumbling about how the testing process hasn't exactly been flawless so far... Even if the process was flawless the reality of the matter is that people can still get this virus at any time. The MLS just lost Dallas for the season because a bunch of players tested positive. That's why this will be shut down. Too many possible tragedies involved in this restart. The only leagues that might be able to defy all logic and reason and get some kind of season out of this is the NBA and NHL. I don't think MLB is really taking into account how deadly this virus truly is. Everyone just needs to ride it out at home until this is over. I can't see how this season happens. Everyone is just so unorganized.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 7, 2020 9:41:02 GMT -5
Even if the process was flawless the reality of the matter is that people can still get this virus at any time. The MLS just lost Dallas for the season because a bunch of players tested positive. That's why this will be shut down. Too many possible tragedies involved in this restart. The only leagues that might be able to defy all logic and reason and get some kind of season out of this is the NBA and NHL. I don't think MLB is really taking into account how deadly this virus truly is. Everyone just needs to ride it out at home until this is over. I can't see how this season happens. Everyone is just so unorganized. So far, I have found only one website that explains how deadly this virus is. They claim that for people in the player's age range that the infected fatality rate is .0092%. Link below: www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863I'm not familiar with the ACSH so if anyone else has conflicting data I would love to hear it, but if this is correct then reopening baseball is relatively safe from a player's perspective. I hope they're right, I don't want to see anything tragic happen either. For anyone 20-35 its probably safe. But for middle aged men and women and older its very bad. Thats the issue. Unfortunately not all managers are the ages of Alex Cora and Gabe Kapler. Not all GMs are in their 30s. This could cause some serious issues. If someones pregnant wife gets this it could also really harm the baby. I want baseball and all sports back asap but not at the risk of unnecessary deaths.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 7, 2020 9:41:12 GMT -5
Even if the process was flawless the reality of the matter is that people can still get this virus at any time. The MLS just lost Dallas for the season because a bunch of players tested positive. That's why this will be shut down. Too many possible tragedies involved in this restart. The only leagues that might be able to defy all logic and reason and get some kind of season out of this is the NBA and NHL. I don't think MLB is really taking into account how deadly this virus truly is. Everyone just needs to ride it out at home until this is over. I can't see how this season happens. Everyone is just so unorganized. So far, I have found only one website that explains how deadly this virus is. They claim that for people in the player's age range that the infected fatality rate is .0092%. Link below: www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863I'm not familiar with the ACSH so if anyone else has conflicting data I would love to hear it, but if this is correct then reopening baseball is relatively safe from a player's perspective. I hope they're right, I don't want to see anything tragic happen either. But this completely discounts the health risks that fall short of actually dying. There are several comments and links in this thread that testify to those risks. One number I saw was that about 20% of infected people end up being "long haulers," with recurrent symptoms that last months, including scarring of the lungs and neurological/cognitive difficulties. It sounds like the sort of thing that could threaten a player's career, not to mention their overall well-being. We just don't know yet what the long-term effects of this disease are. It also entirely discounts the risks to people other than the players: the coaches, the players' families, etc. (I'm actually surprised the overall discussion hasn't focused more on coaches, many of whom are in a much more vulnerable age group; if someone were to die as a result of playing this baseball season in the midst of a pandemic, it's overwhelmingly more likely to be a coach than a player.) And then there are the risks to the broader society. If going forward with the season leads to more people in and around baseball getting infected, those individuals will then pass the disease on to others, and so on.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 7, 2020 9:48:29 GMT -5
Enough MLB players decline, then maybe some network will broadcast the possible nashville 2 team "league" consisting of both former players and AAAA types here: nashville leagueSeveral people, including myself have mentioned am sure quad A players would enjoy playing in the limelight should MLB not play out any season. It's been shown before during strikes, tho this of course isn't a strike.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 7, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5
Even if the process was flawless the reality of the matter is that people can still get this virus at any time. The MLS just lost Dallas for the season because a bunch of players tested positive. That's why this will be shut down. Too many possible tragedies involved in this restart. The only leagues that might be able to defy all logic and reason and get some kind of season out of this is the NBA and NHL. I don't think MLB is really taking into account how deadly this virus truly is. Everyone just needs to ride it out at home until this is over. I can't see how this season happens. Everyone is just so unorganized. So far, I have found only one website that explains how deadly this virus is. They claim that for people in the player's age range that the infected fatality rate is .0092%. Link below: www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863I'm not familiar with the ACSH so if anyone else has conflicting data I would love to hear it, but if this is correct then reopening baseball is relatively safe from a player's perspective. I hope they're right, I don't want to see anything tragic happen either. Sure, it's .0092% for players in the younger age range, but it'll only take 1 player for this to turn into a disaster. Even still, I'm not sure if we're aware of what potential issues may arise from someone with Covid-19 sprinting around bases, getting hit in the front or back of the chest area with a fastball, running and diving, or in other sports, constant sprinting motions and tackling or clobbering against boards and fighting. Even still, as someone else has mentioned, what if Terry Francona who is older with an underlying medical condition contracts it? What of Dusty Baker? What of John Henry or Jerry Remy? What of the players who have children on the way? I imagine they need quarantine for 14 days before they can see and then 14 more days to come back. As far as, "let the players who want to play, play". It's really not that simple. If I'm Jarren Duran and I don't feel completely comfortable with this, I'm still probably going to show up to camp because I'm getting older and need to prove something. Same thing with Bobby Dalbec and Tanner Houck. I'm sure there are veterans that are hanging on by a thread and positional battles that could be won/lost for 2021 if one guy shows up and another doesn't. Then there's also the guilt feeling. No matter how many time you tell someone, "it's ok to sit". I'm sure they're still going to struggle with the idea of sitting out while their teammates show up and play. Let's not forget, not all players are just machines either. Jon Lester and Anthony Rizzo have had cancer so I imagine there's an heightened risk with those two. I'm sure other players have or had medical issues as well.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 7, 2020 11:23:20 GMT -5
So far, I have found only one website that explains how deadly this virus is. They claim that for people in the player's age range that the infected fatality rate is .0092%. Link below: www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863I'm not familiar with the ACSH so if anyone else has conflicting data I would love to hear it, but if this is correct then reopening baseball is relatively safe from a player's perspective. I hope they're right, I don't want to see anything tragic happen either. Sure, it's .0092% for players in the younger age range, but it'll only take 1 player for this to turn into a disaster. Even still, I'm not sure if we're aware of what potential issues may arise from someone with Covid-19 sprinting around bases, getting hit in the front or back of the chest area with a fastball, running and diving, or in other sports, constant sprinting motions and tackling or clobbering against boards and fighting. Even still, as someone else has mentioned, what if Terry Francona who is older with an underlying medical condition contracts it? What of Dusty Baker? What of John Henry or Jerry Remy? What of the players who have children on the way? I imagine they need quarantine for 14 days before they can see and then 14 more days to come back. As far as, "let the players who want to play, play". It's really not that simple. If I'm Jarren Duran and I don't feel completely comfortable with this, I'm still probably going to show up to camp because I'm getting older and need to prove something. Same thing with Bobby Dalbec and Tanner Houck. I'm sure there are veterans that are hanging on by a thread and positional battles that could be won/lost for 2021 if one guy shows up and another doesn't. Then there's also the guilt feeling. No matter how many time you tell someone, "it's ok to sit". I'm sure they're still going to struggle with the idea of sitting out while their teammates show up and play. Let's not forget, not all players are just machines either. Jon Lester and Anthony Rizzo have had cancer so I imagine there's an heightened risk with those two. I'm sure other players have or had medical issues as well. It's definitely scary risky for players to play. Even if you don't die from COVID you risk passing it on to somebody else or could wind up very sick (who wants to be on a ventilator?) and who knows what long-term issues there are? I think there will be a flood of players opting out soon. I mean, if you already have your millions, why risk it? I think like you said you'll see a season with more of the guys who have a financial carrot at the end of the stick as the guys who make up the majority of the rosters. Honestly, given the issues they're having trying to even get the tests, I have doubts that the season happens or lasts the duration if it does.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2020 13:02:50 GMT -5
The debate about if they should play has been done, they agreed to play. I'm over the they shouldn't play because someone might die crap. They should step up and be role models. Show people if you are smart your chances of getting this is low. Have them wear masks when they aren't playing. Have them not do stupid things like to to bars and nightclubs. South Korea is playing Baseball. The rest of the world has adjusted. The whole Country can't bunker down this could easily last year's.
They need to fix the testing, that is crazy. Little old Berkshire County can do rush tests in 45 minutes and all results in a day. We have multiple free testing sites.
Wife's Salon had it's first positive test of a customer. A pregnant women who didn't have symptoms. She was tested when she went to the hospital. So far no workers have tested positive, yet that's because by law they are in full PPE equipment and look like surgeons. Masks, gloves, eye protections, full body protection and full on cleaning after every customer. They hate it, but you have to be smart!
Baseball should be the easiest sport because it involves much less contact that other sports. Yet is anyone surprised they are prepared? The right rules, regulations and a solid testing program can work. If the players buy in. This Country needs the people to buy in. We can't hide in bunkers till this is over.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 7, 2020 13:03:53 GMT -5
But this completely discounts the health risks that fall short of actually dying. There are several comments and links in this thread that testify to those risks. One number I saw was that about 20% of infected people end up being "long haulers," with recurrent symptoms that last months, including scarring of the lungs and neurological/cognitive difficulties. It sounds like the sort of thing that could threaten a player's career, not to mention their overall well-being. We just don't know yet what the long-term effects of this disease are. It also entirely discounts the risks to people other than the players: the coaches, the players' families, etc. (I'm actually surprised the overall discussion hasn't focused more on coaches, many of whom are in a much more vulnerable age group; if someone were to die as a result of playing this baseball season in the midst of a pandemic, it's overwhelmingly more likely to be a coach than a player.) And then there are the risks to the broader society. If going forward with the season leads to more people in and around baseball getting infected, those individuals will then pass the disease on to others, and so on. You said deadly, so I posted information from what appears to be a reasonably reputable source that states exactly how deadly the virus is and how that's relevant to baseball players. Thought I was being helpful. There's no extensive commentary, just data and an invitation to post your own data (an invitation that you declined). I am more concerned about the coaches, particularly a guy like Francona. Jerry Remy too. I'm not sure enough attention is being paid to this group. The thing I see wrong is what group are you talking about. Lets put this in prospective: My son's Dr. (Specialist) stated that he is not in a high risk group even though he was born with one lung half developed and the other 3/4, Hydrocephalus, Spinal Bifida, and one kidney (he's 33). So where is (according to there need) this known group of managers and tv personnel that make up this group? I don't think it is very large. Also Francona stated he was going to manage with his heart condition so I'm sure his doctor told him the risks, however the cancer people may not want to be there and don't have to be, it seems to me. The others that are at high risk all should be talking with their Doctors. This site shows the riskier people and the people who should be looking to their Doctors pretty good: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/immunocompromised.html
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 7, 2020 13:14:39 GMT -5
The debate about if they should play has been done, they agreed to play. I'm over the they shouldn't play because someone might die crap. They should step up and be role models. Show people if you are smart your chances of getting this is low. Have them wear masks when they aren't playing. Have them not do stupid things like to to bars and nightclubs. South Korea is playing Baseball. The rest of the world has adjusted. The whole Country can't bunker down this could easily last year's. They need to fix the testing, that is crazy. Little old Berkshire County can do rush tests in 45 minutes and all results in a day. We have multiple free testing sites. Wife's Salon had it's first positive test of a customer. A pregnant women who didn't have symptoms. She was tested when she went to the hospital. So far no workers have tested positive, yet that's because by law they are in full PPE equipment and look like surgeons. Masks, gloves, eye protections, full body protection and full on cleaning after every customer. They hate it, but you have to be smart! Baseball should be the easiest sport because it involves much less contact that other sports. Yet is anyone surprised they are prepared? The right rules, regulations and a solid testing program can work. If the players buy in. This Country needs the people to buy in. We can't hide in bunkers till this is over. I get where you're coming from. However, this is the exact same logic that the South used last month and look at Florida now? Hospitals are overrun with cases. We need to stay home until this is done or we risk giving this deadly disease to loved ones or people with compromised immune systems. Its the right thing to do. I wonder if Eduardo Rodriguez and Freddy Freeman would agree with playing if they were asked today. Those two now have a disease that if they have an underlying issue that they are unaware of could turn deadly. I mean bordem and losing money sucks. But you know what else sucks? Ventilators! The testing is a shit show and MLB looks like an unorganized clown show.
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