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7/31-8/2 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
cutz
Veteran
Posts: 2,321
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Post by cutz on Aug 1, 2020 20:51:25 GMT -5
I guess it's been awhile and Devers didn't know where 2nd base is?
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Post by manfred on Aug 1, 2020 21:15:58 GMT -5
Is it to late to get, like, Greg Brock for Mookie instead?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 1, 2020 21:17:02 GMT -5
Sox with a chance to tie it. There's no quit in this super team.
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 1, 2020 21:19:14 GMT -5
it wouldve been cool if benny swung at the first pitch meatball for once in that spot
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Post by trajanacc on Aug 1, 2020 21:23:05 GMT -5
For all the talk of how bad our pitching is....since opening day we are averaging 3.25 runs per game.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 1, 2020 21:28:32 GMT -5
Strike out 12 times, you won't get much offense going.
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Post by station13 on Aug 1, 2020 21:28:51 GMT -5
For all the talk of how bad our pitching is....since opening day we are averaging 3.25 runs per game. the combination of Devers, JBJ and Benni are in like a 2-50 stretch.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 1, 2020 22:01:17 GMT -5
Respectfully, the idea of trading Devers seems like an exceptionally bad idea and very short sighted. He has a chance to be one of the premier players of his generation. I don't agree with the bold which is why he is a possibility imo. Not saying i would do it-- but what can this player bring say from San Diego? And you speak of "short-sighted" but where is the long-term projection for high-end starters in the Sox organization? Anyhow, every player should be on the block for the right price. On here -- here is our top 5 and whey they expect to come up. Usually their first year as a starter they get toasted in big games. So in terms of long or short sighted, realistically where are the Sox going without some top end starters? Or do what we usually do and pay. Or have a bunch of back end starters and have a dominant bullpen but long-term that won't work. Neither will paying extreme amount in FA. Sooner or later it catches up. Though as long as they win a title eventually I'm okay. Our 2018 year was sweet. So was 2013. So with the pitching looking so bleak, wouldn't it be shortsighted not to try to get a couple of high end pitching prospects? Where are the sox going in next 2-3 years without the high-end pitching? Mata Projected as back end starter or bullpen. ETA 2022.
Song Projected as a 3 or 4 starter. ETA mid-2023.
Groome Projected wide range of outcomes from number 2 starter to back end starter. But his ETA is late 2023.
Ward Ceiling or back end starter. ETA late 2022.
Houck. Projected as a back end starter or reliever. Right now more of a reliever. ETA Late 2020.
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Post by wildsox on Aug 1, 2020 22:05:50 GMT -5
Respectfully, the idea of trading Devers seems like an exceptionally bad idea and very short sighted. He has a chance to be one of the premier players of his generation. I don't agree with the bold which is why he is a possibility imo. Not saying i would do it-- but what can this player bring say from San Diego? And you speak of "short-sighted" but where is the long-term projection for high-end starters in the Sox organization? Anyhow, every player should be on the block for the right price. On here -- here is our top 5 and whey they expect to come up. Usually their first year as a starter they get toasted in big games. So in terms of long or short sighted, realistically where are the Sox going without some top end starters? Or do what we usually do and pay. Or have a bunch of back end starters and have a dominant bullpen but long-term that won't work. Neither will paying extreme amount in FA. Sooner or later it catches up. Though as long as they win a title eventually I'm okay. Our 2018 year was sweet. So was 2013. So with the pitching looking so bleak, wouldn't it be shortsighted not to try to get a couple of high end pitching prospects? Where are the sox going in next 2-3 years without the high-end pitching? Mata Projected as back end starter or bullpen. ETA 2022.
Song Projected as a 3 or 4 starter. ETA mid-2023.
Groome Projected wide range of outcomes from number 2 starter to back end starter. But his ETA is late 2023.
Ward Ceiling or back end starter. ETA late 2022.
Houck. Projected as a back end starter or reliever. Right now more of a reliever. ETA Late 2020.
I wonder if Graterol is available?
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Post by manfred on Aug 1, 2020 22:09:00 GMT -5
I don't agree with the bold which is why he is a possibility imo. Not saying i would do it-- but what can this player bring say from San Diego? And you speak of "short-sighted" but where is the long-term projection for high-end starters in the Sox organization? Anyhow, every player should be on the block for the right price. On here -- here is our top 5 and whey they expect to come up. Usually their first year as a starter they get toasted in big games. So in terms of long or short sighted, realistically where are the Sox going without some top end starters? Or do what we usually do and pay. Or have a bunch of back end starters and have a dominant bullpen but long-term that won't work. Neither will paying extreme amount in FA. Sooner or later it catches up. Though as long as they win a title eventually I'm okay. Our 2018 year was sweet. So was 2013. So with the pitching looking so bleak, wouldn't it be shortsighted not to try to get a couple of high end pitching prospects? Where are the sox going in next 2-3 years without the high-end pitching? Mata Projected as back end starter or bullpen. ETA 2022.
Song Projected as a 3 or 4 starter. ETA mid-2023.
Groome Projected wide range of outcomes from number 2 starter to back end starter. But his ETA is late 2023.
Ward Ceiling or back end starter. ETA late 2022.
Houck. Projected as a back end starter or reliever. Right now more of a reliever. ETA Late 2020.
I wonder if Graterol is available? Verdugo for Graterol, straight up.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 1, 2020 22:14:47 GMT -5
Sox move back into a virtual tie for the bizarre-o-world lead as the Angels top the Astros in a strange extra inning game. Another Astros popular player, Osuna, had to leave the game with the save on the line after being hit with a batted ball.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 1, 2020 23:37:51 GMT -5
Ian Browne @ianmbrowne · 2h Austin Brice will be the opener tomorrow.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2020 0:38:40 GMT -5
Well, if this season completes, it's obvious that the Sox are going to be a very mediocre team. No big deal being mediocre in this weird season.
But I think it's dawning on me that even if they reset the luxury tax limit, this Red Sox is going to be a mess for the foreseeable future.
The Red Sox aren't losing games with young guys are their way up. They're losing games with regular players in their prime and no pitching on the current team and no impact pitching on the horizon. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
This is going to be a big project for Chaim Bloom to fix and it's not going to be all at once. We don't know how well Sale and/or E-Rod (glad he's not going to try to pitch this year) will bounce back. And beyond that the lack of pitching in the minor leagues rears its ugly head. They have a bunch of setup men and back end hopefuls. They really need a Jay Groome to step forward or somebody to really emerge in the low levels (Perales?) to give them hope, but even that will take a long time.
I guess if you have to struggle now is the time. There's no telling if this season will complete, if next season is played fully, if the following season is wiped away by what looks like will be a strike which could linger into the following season. 2024 might be the next time there is a full season played and who knows what any team will look like by then?
It makes me sad that the 2018 team disintegrated in ways I couldn't have imagined so damn quickly, but it makes me thankful that the Sox did capitalize on that season and over the past two decades - makes it easier to take what's happening now and coming up ahead. I just don't see any quick fixes for this team going forward. It's not like the Sox have a ton of valuable tradeable talent. JD is the best but he's a DH who could opt out in 5 minutes. I don't see a lot of value there. Nor for JBJ or Pillar or Moreland, all of whom are 2nd tier talents. Don't see Workman fetching a ton either. Vazquez has some value but they have no catching coming up behind him other than Wong who is probably a bench guy. I'm not sure how Bloom will do it, but it's a taller task than I originally realized. I can wait - I am a patient man for the most part.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 2, 2020 1:38:01 GMT -5
Well, if this season completes, it's obvious that the Sox are going to be a very mediocre team. No big deal being mediocre in this weird season. But I think it's dawning on me that even if they reset the luxury tax limit, this Red Sox is going to be a mess for the foreseeable future. The Red Sox aren't losing games with young guys are their way up. They're losing games with regular players in their prime and no pitching on the current team and no impact pitching on the horizon. It's going to get worse before it gets better. This is going to be a big project for Chaim Bloom to fix and it's not going to be all at once. We don't know how well Sale and/or E-Rod (glad he's not going to try to pitch this year) will bounce back. And beyond that the lack of pitching in the minor leagues rears its ugly head. They have a bunch of setup men and back end hopefuls. They really need a Jay Groome to step forward or somebody to really emerge in the low levels (Perales?) to give them hope, but even that will take a long time. I guess if you have to struggle now is the time. There's no telling if this season will complete, if next season is played fully, if the following season is wiped away by what looks like will be a strike which could linger into the following season. 2024 might be the next time there is a full season played and who knows what any team will look like by then? It makes me sad that the 2018 team disintegrated in ways I couldn't have imagined so damn quickly, but it makes me thankful that the Sox did capitalize on that season and over the past two decades - makes it easier to take what's happening now and coming up ahead. I just don't see any quick fixes for this team going forward. It's not like the Sox have a ton of valuable tradeable talent. JD is the best but he's a DH who could opt out in 5 minutes. I don't see a lot of value there. Nor for JBJ or Pillar or Moreland, all of whom are 2nd tier talents. Don't see Workman fetching a ton either. Vazquez has some value but they have no catching coming up behind him other than Wong who is probably a bench guy. I'm not sure how Bloom will do it, but it's a taller task than I originally realized. I can wait - I am a patient man for the most part. My thought is targeting 2022. ADD: I also think there will be MAJOR salary contraction between now and then.
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Post by jbsox on Aug 2, 2020 5:43:38 GMT -5
Well, if this season completes, it's obvious that the Sox are going to be a very mediocre team. No big deal being mediocre in this weird season. But I think it's dawning on me that even if they reset the luxury tax limit, this Red Sox is going to be a mess for the foreseeable future. The Red Sox aren't losing games with young guys are their way up. They're losing games with regular players in their prime and no pitching on the current team and no impact pitching on the horizon. It's going to get worse before it gets better. This is going to be a big project for Chaim Bloom to fix and it's not going to be all at once. We don't know how well Sale and/or E-Rod (glad he's not going to try to pitch this year) will bounce back. And beyond that the lack of pitching in the minor leagues rears its ugly head. They have a bunch of setup men and back end hopefuls. They really need a Jay Groome to step forward or somebody to really emerge in the low levels (Perales?) to give them hope, but even that will take a long time. I guess if you have to struggle now is the time. There's no telling if this season will complete, if next season is played fully, if the following season is wiped away by what looks like will be a strike which could linger into the following season. 2024 might be the next time there is a full season played and who knows what any team will look like by then? It makes me sad that the 2018 team disintegrated in ways I couldn't have imagined so damn quickly, but it makes me thankful that the Sox did capitalize on that season and over the past two decades - makes it easier to take what's happening now and coming up ahead. I just don't see any quick fixes for this team going forward. It's not like the Sox have a ton of valuable tradeable talent. JD is the best but he's a DH who could opt out in 5 minutes. I don't see a lot of value there. Nor for JBJ or Pillar or Moreland, all of whom are 2nd tier talents. Don't see Workman fetching a ton either. Vazquez has some value but they have no catching coming up behind him other than Wong who is probably a bench guy. I'm not sure how Bloom will do it, but it's a taller task than I originally realized. I can wait - I am a patient man for the most part. I’m hoping we follow a little bit of the Yankees path a few back where they traded guys on expiring contracts then re-signed some of them in the offseason. That really helped replenish their system. The Rays in years past weren’t afraid to trade anyone so it will be interesting to see what Bloom does here. I think we will be spending a little more in this offseason since we reset the tax so that will help. I’m not only worried about our future SP but our future back end bullpen with Workman expiring this year and Barnes next. It sounds counterproductive but maybe we sell high on Eovaldi if he continues to pitch really well and/or Vasquez (Taking the emotions out as I really like him) to get that future top of the rotation guy. Revisit the Myers deal to buy prospects like for Campusano to get our future catcher. Explore other deals taking on bad contracts to buy prospects. Explore what you can get for JBJ, Pillar, JD, Workman, even if it’s future possible solid bullpen help. Then spend (not foolishly of course) this offseason. Hoping we can sign a SP or 2 (maybe Lester), and bring back a couple of the guys we traded away at the deadline. who knows. Just spitballing. I don’t think it will be a dull with movement with Bloom in charge.
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 2, 2020 8:06:55 GMT -5
Don’t we have a significant amount of $ coming off the books this offseason? I hope so because it would come at a good time.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 2, 2020 8:33:57 GMT -5
mean no disrespect to everyone's trade ideas, but we can't just rip it all down. That isn't the Boston Red Sox. Bottom line we have lost too many components to trade and injury this year. It is a stark difference from 2 years ago, but that is a fact.
Next year, we should reset tax. Will have Sale, ERod and Eovaldi anchoring rotation (assuming good health). Now we don't know how that will shake out performance wise, but the past should dictate that it is more than serviceable. Shore up some position player and bullpen pieces and it is a good ball club. if 2013 taught us anything, it is you need good players that have some real luck, and you can win it all. I am not trading Vasquez, the contract is very team friendly and he has turned around a very important position.
At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD).
It is frustrating to have all the WS success and the periods of basically, futility, I would not use the MFY as an example, for any reason. They have hit a sweet spot, but if you look at their roster, it isn't really homegrown. They basically bought / took on big contracts for most of their good players, we don't operate that way. They have also been extremely lucky on getting good performance from marginal players. We can only guess why, but they have been very lucky. It is kind of farcical to look at their highwater mark and think we need to be them. Let's remember we have more WS than they do this century. Our ownership knows what they are doing.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 2, 2020 8:59:47 GMT -5
mean no disrespect to everyone's trade ideas, but we can't just rip it all down. That isn't the Boston Red Sox.At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD). Trading those guys would absolutely constitute ripping it all down, it would leave you with Devers, Xander, and that's essentially it.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 2, 2020 9:17:59 GMT -5
mean no disrespect to everyone's trade ideas, but we can't just rip it all down. That isn't the Boston Red Sox.At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD). Trading those guys would absolutely constitute ripping it all down, it would leave you with Devers, Xander, and that's essentially it. I mean if the Sox are looking to the future isn't that a better core than most have? Devers Benny and Xander. Pretty solid 2-4. Don't forget Verdugo and Downs. So you have the lineup anchors set and money to spend on veterans to fill out the lineup while Cassis and Blaze develops. The pitching though they're going to have to spend money on. The Sox have been terrible at developing pitchers.
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Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2020 9:33:06 GMT -5
Trading those guys would absolutely constitute ripping it all down, it would leave you with Devers, Xander, and that's essentially it. I mean if the Sox are looking to the future isn't that a better core than most have? Devers Benny and Xander. Pretty solid 2-4. Don't forget Verdugo and Downs. So you have the lineup anchors set and money to spend on veterans to fill out the lineup while Cassis and Blaze develops. The pitching though they're going to have to spend money on. The Sox have been terrible at developing pitchers. Better core than the Yankees? No. Mets? No. Orioles... er, yeah. Of the teams we’ve played so far. You name a bunch of guys, but Devers and X are the only two who have shown they can be stars. Benny and Verdugo look somewhere between ok and not so good. The rest might never even make the majors, they are so far off. I’m not saying this list is wrong in a best case scenario, but the likelihood is this is not a look at the lineup in 2024.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 2, 2020 9:39:43 GMT -5
I mean if the Sox are looking to the future isn't that a better core than most have? Devers Benny and Xander. Pretty solid 2-4. Don't forget Verdugo and Downs. So you have the lineup anchors set and money to spend on veterans to fill out the lineup while Cassis and Blaze develops. The pitching though they're going to have to spend money on. The Sox have been terrible at developing pitchers. Better core than the Yankees? No. Mets? No. Orioles... er, yeah. Of the teams we’ve played so far. You name a bunch of guys, but Devers and X are the only two who have shown they can be stars. Benny and Verdugo look somewhere between ok and not so good. The rest might never even make the majors, they are so far off. I’m not saying this list is wrong in a best case scenario, but the likelihood is this is not a look at the lineup in 2024. You have to factor in a likely opt out from Xander after 2022. Now that's not a guarantee he leaves, but no way he continues playing on that deal.
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Post by Canseco on Aug 2, 2020 9:52:17 GMT -5
At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD). Call me old school in the era of homers and strikeouts, but I strongly prioritize defense—especially up the middle. Therefore, I’m looking to extend JBJ for a few years if the price is reasonable. He can play CF and Fenway’s RF, which is uniquely valuable to the Sox. Benny, too, is a player in whom I believe long term. The others you list? Yep. Sign me up. Get what we can, shed some of that future payroll, and focus on a (hopefully) healthier 2021.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 2, 2020 10:13:53 GMT -5
mean no disrespect to everyone's trade ideas, but we can't just rip it all down. That isn't the Boston Red Sox.At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD). Trading those guys would absolutely constitute ripping it all down, it would leave you with Devers, Xander, and that's essentially it. relivers are fungible. We have Taylor and Darwinzon in the wings. You sell because other (contending) teams need relievers. they are getting expensive and near free agency. It is an optimal time, given the state of the team, that you sell them now. There is probably a 25 percent chance (non scientific) they are on the club in 2 years.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 2, 2020 10:16:22 GMT -5
At this point, I am shopping JBJ, Workman, Barnes, Benny and possibly JD Martinez (need real return or walk away for JD). Call me old school in the era of homers and strikeouts, but I strongly prioritize defense—especially up the middle. Therefore, I’m looking to extend JBJ for a few years if the price is reasonable. He can play CF and Fenway’s RF, which is uniquely valuable to the Sox. Benny, too, is a player in whom I believe long term. The others you list? Yep. Sign me up. Get what we can, shed some of that future payroll, and focus on a (hopefully) healthier 2021. no inside knowledge, but I doubt JBJ wants to stay in Boston. He has had a problem with Eck and such. I think other teams will value him enough that he will have choice, your well taken point notwithstanding. We should be asking around, IMO. We can always resign him, if he wants to come back. i am not too confident in Benny, and that hurts to say.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2020 10:19:57 GMT -5
Call me old school in the era of homers and strikeouts, but I strongly prioritize defense—especially up the middle. Therefore, I’m looking to extend JBJ for a few years if the price is reasonable. He can play CF and Fenway’s RF, which is uniquely valuable to the Sox. Benny, too, is a player in whom I believe long term. The others you list? Yep. Sign me up. Get what we can, shed some of that future payroll, and focus on a (hopefully) healthier 2021. no inside knowledge, but I doubt JBJ wants to stay in Boston. He has had a problem with Eck and such. I think other teams will value him enough that he will have choice, your well taken point notwithstanding. We should be asking around, IMO. We can always resign him, if he wants to come back. i am not too confident in Benny, and that hurts to say. Why would we want JBJ to stay in Boston? This team can do so much better than JBJ in CF.
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