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8/14-8/17 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2020 8:30:43 GMT -5
i agree, basically. But this is pathetic and they basically gave up on the season to reset the tax. I feel justified in calling them out, even if it is the best long term play. It would be even worse if people were actually buying tickets. Then the owners would be basically stealing fans’ money. Don't forget, the ownership RAISED ticket prices after last year. If not for Coronavirus, you'd be paying more to see an historically bad team.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 17, 2020 8:34:09 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2020 8:37:30 GMT -5
Mostly the same players from an 84-win team. The scary thing is that up and down the lineup, the team has really NOT underperformed except JDM and Devers. Yes, that is a massive exception, obviously. But the fact is, this team has some pretty bad or mediocre guys filling slots. Still, I don’t think anyone disagrees none of it matters with this staff as it is, and that is the result of bad luck and bad planning. The bold isn't true. It''s more like half the starting team. While Xander is a slight underperformance Vaz OPS is 100 points less, JBJ is 150 points less, JDM is 200 points less, Devers is 350 points less, and Beni is 650 points less. 2019 Vaz OPS of 798 Vaz 2020 OPS 689 2019 Xander OPS of 939 Xander 2020 OPS 867 2019 Devers OPS of 916 Devers 2020 OPS 578 2019 JDM OPS of 939 JDM 2020 OPS 737 2019 Benitend OPS of 774 Beni 2020 OPS 128 2019 JBJ OPS of 738 JBJ 2020 OPS 581 Get that man a contract extension.
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 9:15:09 GMT -5
Do they need to have Lin, Peraza, Arroyo, and Arauz on the roster? Since Arauz has to stay, I’d be inclined to ditch Peraza.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 9:24:13 GMT -5
I believe there was a change and rosters aren't being reduced to 26, they are staying at 28. I also think Arroyo (or Peraza) will be DFAed because that's too many utility types and Lin has no options.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2020 11:37:44 GMT -5
Peraza offers some LF flexibility that's useful with Benintendi on the IL.
I'd option Walden and Brasier for Arroyo and Taylor, although this all depends on what the plan is for Arroyo.
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 17, 2020 12:03:56 GMT -5
encouraging
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 12:35:00 GMT -5
Peraza offers some LF flexibility that's useful with Benintendi on the IL. I'd option Walden and Brasier for Arroyo and Taylor, although this all depends on what the plan is for Arroyo. What IS the plan?? This season feels like a huge try-out for utility man. The horserace is, er, thrilling? I don’t see a ton to separate these guys at the moment.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2020 15:26:02 GMT -5
Peraza offers some LF flexibility that's useful with Benintendi on the IL. I'd option Walden and Brasier for Arroyo and Taylor, although this all depends on what the plan is for Arroyo. What IS the plan?? This season feels like a huge try-out for utility man. The horserace is, er, thrilling? I don’t see a ton to separate these guys at the moment. I've decided this year is an exhibition for 2021 and everyone is failing. Webber might have saved himself a spot as the long-man/mop up guy.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 17, 2020 15:35:29 GMT -5
TAYLOR active. Mazza optioned. Arroyo to Covid19 list.
Per MassLive "Arroyo did not test positive for the virus and is still going through the intake screening process required for players who change teams in the middle of the season.
When Arroyo is activated, the team will have to make a 40-man roster move to add him"
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Post by soxjim on Aug 17, 2020 17:20:37 GMT -5
The bold isn't true. It''s more like half the starting team. While Xander is a slight underperformance Vaz OPS is 100 points less, JBJ is 150 points less, JDM is 200 points less, Devers is 350 points less, and Beni is 650 points less. 2019 Vaz OPS of 798 Vaz 2020 OPS 689 2019 Xander OPS of 939 Xander 2020 OPS 867 2019 Devers OPS of 916 Devers 2020 OPS 578 2019 JDM OPS of 939 JDM 2020 OPS 737 2019 Benitend OPS of 774 Beni 2020 OPS 128 2019 JBJ OPS of 738 JBJ 2020 OPS 581 Ok, CVaz is under his career year, though he started hot. I said Devers and JDM. Bradley is under his subpar career average, so perhaps I should say gas not dramatically underperformed expectations. Benny is brutal but hurt, so I was not counting him. Xander is still in reasonable distance to say he is at a level he might be counted on to play. My main point is that even firing on all cylinders, many of these guys are not so good. Give us last year’s JBJ, Benny, and CVaz, and what to we have? A pretty bad lineup. I don't agree with your tone / implications here. You posted using terminology " up and down the lineup" then said only JDM and Devers didn't perform as expected implying that was it -- just those two. Now you are trying to say/suggest/imply Vaz and JBJ don't count? Further,, am I right to assume that you are ignoring Beni's pathetic play even though you make a passing comment that he was brutal? Otherwise when you referred to "up and down the lineup" why wouldn't you have taken into account Beni's numbers when he was healthy? If you didn't include the numbers then you are ignoring them. Why? And then you are including Beni in with JBJ and VAz when you speak of "A pretty bad lineup." Are you saying that Beni should have been put in the same category to start the season with Vaz and JBJ? I'm pretty sure I read a post from you early on during this season that you were still pretty high on him. Now you are putting Beni in the same Vaz / JBJ category? Anyhow -- basically there are 7 returning positions with 8 main players of which Moreland and Chavis are a bit of a platoon. Last year's slash numbers for the 8 players that have returned this year (Vaz, Moreland/Chavis, Xander, Devers, Beni, JBJ and JDM) is about .279/.349/.499/.849. This year it's about .228/292/.414.706. How is management supposed to plan for 6 of 7 positions under-performing at this type of level? Did you know that Beni was going to be this rotten? If you didn't then how can a lineup of 1- Beni, 2- Devers, 3- Xander- 4-JDM- 5a or 6a-Verdugo - or 6a or 6b Moreland/Chavis, 7-Vaz - then 8/9 2b and then platoon JBJ/Pillar be considered "pretty bad" to start the season? Are you saying you knew that 6 of 7 returning positions would decline and that they would as putrid of slash numbers as they have? If so-- how did you know? The 1st 4 hitters are supposed to be very, very good. The 5 and 6 spots okay considering the order. And even Vaz at 7 is okay. And you are platooning JBJ witd Pillar. You knew this would be a bad lineup to start the season?
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 17, 2020 17:42:16 GMT -5
1. Kevin Pillar CF 2. Rafael Devers 3B 3. JD Martinez DH 4. Xander Bogaerts SS 5. Christian Vázquez C 6. Michael Chavis 1B 7. Alex Verdugo RF 8. Jose Peraza LF 9. Jonathan Araúz 2B SP. Martin Pérez
Mentioned this before but I would love to see Verdugo play CF. From what I've seen(minus the bobbles on grounders) he seems to get good jumps and runs good routes. A CF with his power is a huge plus in building an explosive lineup. Obviously we would need the corner pieces to put with him.
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 18:12:26 GMT -5
Ok, CVaz is under his career year, though he started hot. I said Devers and JDM. Bradley is under his subpar career average, so perhaps I should say gas not dramatically underperformed expectations. Benny is brutal but hurt, so I was not counting him. Xander is still in reasonable distance to say he is at a level he might be counted on to play. My main point is that even firing on all cylinders, many of these guys are not so good. Give us last year’s JBJ, Benny, and CVaz, and what to we have? A pretty bad lineup. I don't agree with your tone / implications here. You posted using terminology " up and down the lineup" then said only JDM and Devers didn't perform as expected implying that was it -- just those two. Now you are trying to say/suggest/imply Vaz and JBJ don't count? Further,, am I right to assume that you are ignoring Beni's pathetic play even though you make a passing comment that he was brutal? Otherwise when you referred to "up and down the lineup" why wouldn't you have taken into account Beni's numbers when he was healthy? If you didn't include the numbers then you are ignoring them. Why? And then you are including Beni in with JBJ and VAz when you speak of "A pretty bad lineup." Are you saying that Beni should have been put in the same category to start the season with Vaz and JBJ? I'm pretty sure I read a post from you early on during this season that you were still pretty high on him. Now you are putting Beni in the same Vaz / JBJ category? Anyhow -- basically there are 7 returning positions with 8 main players of which Moreland and Chavis are a bit of a platoon. Last year's slash numbers for the 8 players that have returned this year (Vaz, Moreland/Chavis, Xander, Devers, Beni, JBJ and JDM) is about .279/.349/.499/.849. This year it's about .228/292/.414.706. How is management supposed to plan for 6 of 7 positions under-performing at this type of level? Did you know that Beni was going to be this rotten? If you didn't then how can a lineup of 1- Beni, 2- Devers, 3- Xander- 4-JDM- 5a or 6a-Verdugo - or 6a or 6b Moreland/Chavis, 7-Vaz - then 8/9 2b and then platoon JBJ/Pillar be considered "pretty bad" to start the season? Are you saying you knew that 6 of 7 returning positions would decline and that they would as putrid of slash numbers as they have? If so-- how did you know? The 1st 4 hitters are supposed to be very, very good. The 5 and 6 spots okay considering the order. And even Vaz at 7 is okay. And you are platooning JBJ witd Pillar. You knew this would be a bad lineup to start the season? I did know this was a bad lineup, though I was wrong HOW it would be bad. I certainly didn’t think Devers would be BAD. I did think there was a huge chance he’d come to earth. Early in a career, there is a lot of adjusting, counter adjusting. I did think that of all players in the majors, JDM was most likely to be bothered by the protocols. But look: I figured Moreland has to hit a wall at some point. And his peak is... ok. He is off to a hot start. We’ve seen that before. But he is also fragile. I figured 2B would suck. Check. I figured CVaz would not be as good as last year. I doubt he’ll ever have that good a year again. Remember when Leon roped? Xander would be... and largely is.. Xander. And I figured the outfield would suck. Did I expect Benny to be one of the worst players since half-game tee ball kids? Nope. But he was not great last year, sub 100 OPS+ and worse in the second half. JBJ is an established bad hitter. Pillar has been better than his career offense. Didn’t expect JDM to suck, but did expect him to be a bit wasted. You can’t drive guys in if there are not people to drive in. So... in essence, I did expect this lineup to be bad, and I figured that based on past performance, not underperformance. LF, CF, and 2B were all under 100 OPS+ last year. Moreland was... ok, but at 1B, an uninspiring 111 OPS+. Verdugo has been BETTER than expected. So that is 5. CVaz... about exactly his career averages. Career OPS+? 81. This season 81. I think he CAN be better. I don’t think we should COUNT on it. That is 6. Devers, JDM, X. Yes, their best players. But it may be that too much is asked of them. Last thing: there is also a composition issue. Their leading off has been terrible, 1 and 2. In the past the heart had regular set up. I didn’t think they had that, either. Mookie scored 135 times last year, 129 the year before. He set the plate. Duran needs to develop fast.
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 17, 2020 18:13:29 GMT -5
Devers and JD just love to kill potential rallies
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 18:16:42 GMT -5
Devers and JD just love to kill potential rallies I don’t think JDM will get it together this year. He needs the video, if only mentally. I didn’t know he blasted the pitchers until Eck said it, but he just seems out of sorts. Next year.
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Post by kjkramer on Aug 17, 2020 18:18:44 GMT -5
Really sucks to see Pittsburgh do idle.... I am so interested in their games
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 18:22:44 GMT -5
Not cool to take strikes away from Perez.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 17, 2020 18:26:47 GMT -5
Got lucky there.
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2020 18:48:10 GMT -5
Throw a 2 strikes pitch middle, the Red Sox way.
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Post by kjkramer on Aug 17, 2020 18:48:28 GMT -5
Is service time counting for rookies? Does the FA clock start if we bring young guys up this year? I thought I heard it was frozen this year?
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2020 19:04:38 GMT -5
Our pitcher needs to learn to sell and waste a pitch like that instead of throwing a tee ball on 2 strike.
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2020 19:05:35 GMT -5
Xander can't hit into a doubleplay, that's a big plus.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 19:37:58 GMT -5
LOL, rain
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 17, 2020 20:00:12 GMT -5
Is service time counting for rookies? Does the FA clock start if we bring young guys up this year? I thought I heard it was frozen this year? Service time counts as always . Pro-rated. About 3X. So if Dalbec is in Boston for 30 days, that's 90 days service time. Approx. Somebody such as Wilson CF .... has burned an option year.
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Post by kjkramer on Aug 17, 2020 20:14:51 GMT -5
Is service time counting for rookies? Does the FA clock start if we bring young guys up this year? I thought I heard it was frozen this year? Service time counts as always . Pro-rated. About 3X. So if Dalbec is in Boston for 30 days, that's 90 days service time. Approx. Somebody such as Wilson CF .... has burned an option year. Thank you for the information. That sucks. I was hoping to see the kids in a no stress situation but.... nope
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