manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2020 14:51:40 GMT -5
So the expiring contracts are: Workman, Pillar, JBJ plus one year of control: Hembree, Barnes, Moreland and Perez I expect the first group to leave at the deadline. I think Chaim would only move anyone with control if he really likes the return, as in a potential cost controlled starter. Although it's possible, I will be a little surprised if anyone else is moved. Unfortunately that first group falls into the bag-of-balls category. If I were a GM, I’d only take them as a way to dump longer term dead-money on the Sox.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2020 14:56:55 GMT -5
So the expiring contracts are: Workman, Pillar, JBJ plus one year of control: Hembree, Barnes, Moreland and Perez I expect the first group to leave at the deadline. I think Chaim would only move anyone with control if he really likes the return, as in a potential cost controlled starter. Although it's possible, I will be a little surprised if anyone else is moved. JDM is the big name you're missing from that group.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2020 15:19:23 GMT -5
So the expiring contracts are: Workman, Pillar, JBJ plus one year of control: Hembree, Barnes, Moreland and Perez I expect the first group to leave at the deadline. I think Chaim would only move anyone with control if he really likes the return, as in a potential cost controlled starter. Although it's possible, I will be a little surprised if anyone else is moved. Unfortunately that first group falls into the bag-of-balls category. If I were a GM, I’d only take them as a way to dump longer term dead-money on the Sox. You wouldn't trade for Workman or Pillar if you needed help? I think most GMs would greatly disagree with you on that one. Heck even Bradley could help a team who needed a good defensive 4th OF. It's about what can you get, not if GMs would want those guys. I have to imagine we pay most of anyone we trades salary to increase the return.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2020 15:52:42 GMT -5
Unfortunately that first group falls into the bag-of-balls category. If I were a GM, I’d only take them as a way to dump longer term dead-money on the Sox. You wouldn't trade for Workman or Pillar if you needed help? I think most GMs would greatly disagree with you on that one. Heck even Bradley could help a team who needed a good defensive 4th OF. It's about what can you get, not if GMs would want those guys. I have to imagine we pay most of anyone we trades salary to increase the return. I mean, sure, I’d take JBJ or Pillar for defense. I’d take Workman for bullpen depth. But I would not give up anything beyond org depth type prospects.
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Post by jdb on Aug 18, 2020 15:55:16 GMT -5
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Post by jbsox on Aug 18, 2020 15:57:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately that first group falls into the bag-of-balls category. If I were a GM, I’d only take them as a way to dump longer term dead-money on the Sox. You wouldn't trade for Workman or Pillar if you needed help? I think most GMs would greatly disagree with you on that one. Heck even Bradley could help a team who needed a good defensive 4th OF. It's about what can you get, not if GMs would want those guys. I have to imagine we pay most of anyone we trades salary to increase the return. I also think Bloom could get creative something like combining an expiring contract along with a guy who has a year left to extract more value in return. I wouldn’t mind at all receiving potential young future bullpen help with Hembree, Barnes, and Workman’s contracts nearing the end.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 18, 2020 17:27:05 GMT -5
Would really hate to see Verdugo traded unless we were absolutely blown away. Clevinger has really impressed, but I would want more in a deal than straight up. Don't know what else Cleveland might be willing to part with, but hopefully the situation that led to him possibly being available works in the sox favor.
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 18, 2020 17:38:26 GMT -5
With Verdugo looking like he has a real chance to be the cheap foundational piece we hoped we were getting, I'm confused by this sudden talk of trading him for a depressed asset with less control at a time when we're probably looking at a rebuild.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 18, 2020 19:15:43 GMT -5
I too would take that because Quantrill is actually having a really solid year, they aren't trading him for a backup infielder. Quantrill has pitched a total of 12 innings and only 1 start. That's a really solid year ? You will see the humor in this if you look but Chavis has twice Quantrill's fWAR. Quantril with a save, Chavis with a hideous K
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 18, 2020 20:44:27 GMT -5
With Verdugo looking like he has a real chance to be the cheap foundational piece we hoped we were getting, I'm confused by this sudden talk of trading him for a depressed asset with less control at a time when we're probably looking at a rebuild. Because we could get two AA players that could turn out to be Verdugo!
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 18, 2020 21:17:15 GMT -5
Quantrill has pitched a total of 12 innings and only 1 start. That's a really solid year ? You will see the humor in this if you look but Chavis has twice Quantrill's fWAR. Quantril with a save, Chavis with a hideous K fWAR. [/quote] Quantril with a save, Chavis with 3 hideous K's
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 18, 2020 21:31:24 GMT -5
I think there are difficult decisions at the deadline for the Red Sox. By my calculation, they're looking at about an 85 win opening day projection if they go for it next year and spend up to the top tax limit. If that's not good enough and you want to build for 2022, then you look at the roster and Verdugo is the only valuable major league piece that doesn't lose 2/3rds+ of his surplus value before 2022.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 18, 2020 22:20:14 GMT -5
Workman gives up too many walks, but he still strikes out a ton of batters and doesn't give up home runs. He will get them a nice, if not world-beating, prospect or two at the deadline when a team desperate for relief help wants to slot him into the 8th or something.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 19, 2020 6:45:19 GMT -5
Optics for one. He's arguably the most exciting guy they have, people and the media are finally coming around on him (as mookie rakes in the distance) and suddenly he's gone? I think it is fair to say optics are out the window at this point in that arena. And all the mathematicians on this board won’t care. What is the $:year:WAR ratio of the return? It is all that matters. Optics still matter, need to keep the revenue streams coming in. They've been lucky that the revenue streams have been pretty inelastic over the past 2 decades, and who knows what ticket sales and NESN ad revenue will be post-Covid, but a team without stars could very quickly reduce those streams.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 19, 2020 8:55:14 GMT -5
Can we all agree that trading Xander would be among the dumbest things that this ownership has ever signed off on? This would be 10x worse than watching Lester walk or Mookie being traded. I really don't care if the Rays call tomorrow and offer Franco straight up. You don't trade a player like this. This is who you build your team around. He plays the right way and plays hard all the time. Not to mention he's also one of the best players in baseball on a excellent contract. If I wanted to watch the Marlins I would have stayed in Miami.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 19, 2020 8:57:37 GMT -5
Workman gives up too many walks, but he still strikes out a ton of batters and doesn't give up home runs. He will get them a nice, if not world-beating, prospect or two at the deadline when a team desperate for relief help wants to slot him into the 8th or something. Nice prospect with upside would certainly be a fair return for Workman. Or someone like Forrest Whitley who has seen his stock fall over the last year would be appropriate. IMO
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 19, 2020 9:13:50 GMT -5
Workman gives up too many walks, but he still strikes out a ton of batters and doesn't give up home runs. He will get them a nice, if not world-beating, prospect or two at the deadline when a team desperate for relief help wants to slot him into the 8th or something. Nice prospect with upside would certainly be a fair return for Workman. Or someone like Forrest Whitley who has seen his stock fall over the last year would be appropriate. IMO !!! How LIVID would this sub be if we gave up Whitley or a similar prospect for Workman? Lmao. Pump your brakes, and get ready for a disappointing return. It'll be a reclamation project and signing money
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 19, 2020 9:25:16 GMT -5
Workman gives up too many walks, but he still strikes out a ton of batters and doesn't give up home runs. He will get them a nice, if not world-beating, prospect or two at the deadline when a team desperate for relief help wants to slot him into the 8th or something. Nice prospect with upside would certainly be a fair return for Workman. Or someone like Forrest Whitley who has seen his stock fall over the last year would be appropriate. IMO Whitley's stock took a major step forward with his performance in the AFL last year after a season of major command issues. He's just 23 now and I think that's too much return for Workman. Using our prospects, a Houck or Ward seems about right depending on how close to the majors they are.
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Post by chr31ter on Aug 19, 2020 9:31:49 GMT -5
God help me... the more I think about the possibility of trading Bogaerts, the more it's starting to make sense.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 9:32:52 GMT -5
Nice prospect with upside would certainly be a fair return for Workman. Or someone like Forrest Whitley who has seen his stock fall over the last year would be appropriate. IMO Whitley's stock took a major step forward with his performance in the AFL last year after a season of major command issues. He's just 23 now and I think that's too much return for Workman. Using our prospects, a Houck or Ward seems about right depending on how close to the majors they are. I would be psyched with some flyer A-ball pitcher for Workman. He’s a 30-game rental who slots in in a good bullpen as maybe a 7th inning reliever. A team would have to be pretty desperate to win a World Series* to give up much that might matter after real baseball returns.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 9:33:53 GMT -5
God help me... the more I think about the possibility of trading Bogaerts, the more it's starting to make sense. If the trade Xander, I’m switching to being a Dodgers fan.
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Addam603
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 19, 2020 9:40:54 GMT -5
Whitley's stock took a major step forward with his performance in the AFL last year after a season of major command issues. He's just 23 now and I think that's too much return for Workman. Using our prospects, a Houck or Ward seems about right depending on how close to the majors they are. I would be psyched with some flyer A-ball pitcher for Workman. He’s a 30-game rental who slots in in a good bullpen as maybe a 7th inning reliever. A team would have to be pretty desperate to win a World Series* to give up much that might matter after real baseball returns. Is there anyone on this team you don’t hate? Workman is a high level reliever.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 19, 2020 9:41:00 GMT -5
God help me... the more I think about the possibility of trading Bogaerts, the more it's starting to make sense. Remember when y'all called me Mr. Negativity for suggesting this and how it was stupid and unrealistic? Pepperidge farms remembers
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Post by chr31ter on Aug 19, 2020 9:45:14 GMT -5
God help me... the more I think about the possibility of trading Bogaerts, the more it's starting to make sense. If the trade Xander, I’m switching to being a Dodgers fan. If you think they bounce back next year, then I'm OK with keeping Bogaerts. If you think - as I do - that this could very well be a multi-year rebuild and you have questions about Bogaerts' ability to stay at shortstop as he gets older, then you have to at least consider the idea of moving on, and you have to do it now.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 19, 2020 9:47:02 GMT -5
God help me... the more I think about the possibility of trading Bogaerts, the more it's starting to make sense. Remember when y'all called me Mr. Negativity for suggesting this and how it was stupid and unrealistic? Pepperidge farms remembers That wasn't why you were called Mr. Negativity. Every post is negative.
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