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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,935
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 12, 2021 18:27:52 GMT -5
Perez is official. Mazza DFA'ed. And now we'll see whether the guaranteed-contract inoculation works, as it did with Munoz. Ideally, they shopped him for a trade and no one was intersted, so it's not actually a risky move.
The unexpected and unmeasured value of a guy like Mazza was demonstrated cruelly last year. There's no guarantee that you can find replacement-level pitchers. Every extra credible body, every guy that projects to, say, a mere 0.3 WAR, is one more guy you can use before you get to "crap, is all that we have left?"
Last year Hall, Hart, Walden, Kickham, etc. combined for -4.4 WAR in just 115 innings! If they had found another guy like Mazza to take all of those innings, it would have been like adding a star.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 19:56:42 GMT -5
Not strictly about Mazza... but just the need to free up space as guys sign etc.
When is it Marcus Wilson’s time? I get the Sox need outfield depth, but they now seem to have at least 5 outfielders on their active roster with Verdugo, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Cordero, and Renfroe. Then there are guys like Chavis who could go to left in a catastrophe. It isn’t like Wilson projects to be a star. When does he become a good guy to move off?
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,984
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Post by jimoh on Feb 12, 2021 20:10:28 GMT -5
Not strictly about Mazza... but just the need to free up space as guys sign etc. When is it Marcus Wilson’s time? I get the Sox need outfield depth, but they now seem to have at least 5 outfielders on their active roster with Verdugo, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Cordero, and Renfroe. Then there are guys like Chavis who could go to left in a catastrophe. It isn’t like Wilson projects to be a star. When does he become a good guy to move off? I was just thinking that. And there are four guys at Pawtucket who can play OF (no spots taken up by unusable Cubans now)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 12, 2021 20:11:06 GMT -5
He'd never clear waivers. They'd be giving him away. It's one thing when it's CJ Chatham and he's trending down. It's another when it's a guy like Wilson who doesn't even have a full season of games in this system yet.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 20:14:50 GMT -5
He'd never clear waivers. They'd be giving him away. It's one thing when it's CJ Chatham and he's trending down. It's another when it's a guy like Wilson who doesn't even have a full season of games in this system yet. Follow up that a) reveals my ignorance and b) might mangle facts. If Mazza has an option, does that mean they are designating hoping he gets through but could pull him back and option him if he is? Or designate someone else? Or is this word salad that has nothing to do with moving baseball players from roster to roster and now I sound like my wife asking about points?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Feb 12, 2021 23:54:40 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 23:58:06 GMT -5
It’s like you were made for these questions!
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Feb 13, 2021 0:02:10 GMT -5
It’s like you were made for these questions! We're holding back on you. Everyone else in the class has a copy of last year's final ... and Manfred is desperately scribbling lecture notes all semester
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,984
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Post by jimoh on Feb 13, 2021 11:17:08 GMT -5
He'd never clear waivers. They'd be giving him away. It's one thing when it's CJ Chatham and he's trending down. It's another when it's a guy like Wilson who doesn't even have a full season of games in this system yet. I was thinking of a trade rather than trying to slip him through waivers.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 13, 2021 11:59:20 GMT -5
He'd never clear waivers. They'd be giving him away. It's one thing when it's CJ Chatham and he's trending down. It's another when it's a guy like Wilson who doesn't even have a full season of games in this system yet. Follow up that a) reveals my ignorance and b) might mangle facts. If Mazza has an option, does that mean they are designating hoping he gets through but could pull him back and option him if he is? Or designate someone else? Or is this word salad that has nothing to do with moving baseball players from roster to roster and now I sound like my wife asking about points? As I've mostly discussed with Eric here, the Red Sox signed Mazza, Weber, and Munoz to split contracts earlier this offseason that pay them 800k in the majors. I share Eric's theory that this was something of a poison pill to help them clear waivers given that the deals were signed atypically early in the offseason. So yes, the idea is that he hopefully clears waivers.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 16, 2021 12:17:15 GMT -5
Sawamura is official. Springs DFA'ed.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 16, 2021 13:19:14 GMT -5
Sawamura is official. Springs DFA'ed. So presumably Marwin signs when they can IL Sale.
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Post by blizzards39 on Feb 16, 2021 23:24:20 GMT -5
Just looking at the 40 man. And the top prospects. Is it ever nice to see depth again. The 40 man is Almost to the point where it may be a surprise veteran cut making room for the next addition. I’m not all the high on bazardo Potts or Wilson, but each is still a viable prospect that could add MLB depth at some point.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Feb 17, 2021 1:30:51 GMT -5
Sawamura is official. Springs DFA'ed. So presumably Marwin signs when they can IL Sale. Do you know when is the earliest that can happen?
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Post by blizzards39 on Feb 17, 2021 2:08:32 GMT -5
So presumably Marwin signs when they can IL Sale. Do you know when is the earliest that can happen? I’m pretty sure tomorrow. First day of reporting.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 17, 2021 10:19:52 GMT -5
Hernandez added to the 40 man and Plawecki goes on the COVID IL, so still only need to make one move (for now).
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,935
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 18, 2021 7:37:00 GMT -5
Sawamura is official. Springs DFA'ed. So presumably Marwin signs when they can IL Sale. And they still have Walden and Brewer as surprising survivors. Explanations (not mutually exclusive):
Designated DFA's for Moreland and JBJ.
Walden's healthy again and other teams know it; Brewer still has upside that the Sox and other teams can see that I can't after two nothing years.
It's possible they're waiting on Moreland, who's such an obvious upgrade to Chavis, because they want to keep Arroyo on the 26-man and will add either JBJ or Moreland but not both. That could be combined with one of the two pitcher scenarios.
Another not-so-wacky idea: Ockimey is being penciled in for the Moreland spot. If the job is to play 1B and hit RHP, he's a better option than Chavis, and Moreland may not be that much better that he's worth the cash. The fact that no one took him in the Rule 5 doesn't reflect his talents, but the fact that almost nobody needs a platoon / bench 1B who hits lefty. That's only a need if the regular is a RHB whose ability to hit all sorts of RHP is somewhat in doubt, and you're a contender for whom covering that possibility is worth burning a roster spot on a 1-role guy.
And gee, if you were planning to do that, you might want to sign a guy for the bench who could play everywhere ... or even two!
If I'm right about that, it increases the odds that they still think JBJ will come home for a final year.
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Post by kingstephanos on Feb 18, 2021 7:57:45 GMT -5
So presumably Marwin signs when they can IL Sale. And they still have Walden and Brewer as surprising survivors. Explanations (not mutually exclusive): Designated DFA's for Moreland and JBJ.
Walden's healthy again and other teams know it; Brewer still has upside that the Sox and other teams can see that I can't after two nothing years. It's possible they're waiting on Moreland, who's such an obvious upgrade to Chavis, because they want to keep Arroyo on the 26-man and will add either JBJ or Moreland but not both. That could be combined with one of the two pitcher scenarios.
Another not-so-wacky idea: Ockimey is being penciled in for the Moreland spot. If the job is to play 1B and hit RHP, he's a better option than Chavis, and Moreland may not be that much better that he's worth the cash. The fact that no one took him in the Rule 5 doesn't reflect his talents, but the fact that almost nobody needs a platoon / bench 1B who hits lefty. That's only a need if the regular is a RHB whose ability to hit all sorts of RHP is somewhat in doubt, and you're a contender for whom covering that possibility is worth burning a roster spot on a 1-role guy. And gee, if you were planning to do that, you might want to sign a guy for the bench who could play everywhere ... or even two! If I'm right about that, it increases the odds that they still think JBJ will come home for a final year.
What dollar amount (per year) would you give JBJ, Eric? A pillow contract, or a 1+1 would seem viable to a certain $ amount for the Red Sox.
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Post by ramireja on Feb 18, 2021 12:50:23 GMT -5
This is more 26-man roster discussion, but...the more I think I about the 2020 shortened season implications on this year, the more our acquisitions make sense.
I'm working under the assumption that it will be more difficult for starting pitchers to burden a full 162 game season load than it will position players. Adding on that ERod and Sale are returning from illness/injury and this situation becomes super volatile. Assuming that to be true, it would be beneficial to operate with a 3-man bench for as much of the season as possible to carry 14 pitchers and reduce the pitching load. Kiké and Marwin allow for that to happen. Adding to this, having some bulk relievers/multi-inning guys will be useful and Andriese and Whitlock seem to fit that role. It will be interesting to see if we employ a 6-man rotation for portions of the year during which we have 6 useable starters (or 5 starters plus Whitlock/opener) as a way to manage the pitchers workload.
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Post by manfred on Feb 18, 2021 13:30:59 GMT -5
This is more 26-man roster discussion, but...the more I think I about the 2020 shortened season implications on this year, the more our acquisitions make sense. I'm working under the assumption that it will be more difficult for starting pitchers to burden a full 162 game season load than it will position players. Adding on that ERod and Sale are returning from illness/injury and this situation becomes super volatile. Assuming that to be true, it would be beneficial to operate with a 3-man bench for as much of the season as possible to carry 14 pitchers and reduce the pitching load. Kiké and Marwin allow for that to happen. Adding to this, having some bulk relievers/multi-inning guys will be useful and Andriese and Whitlock seem to fit that role. It will be interesting to see if we employ a 6-man rotation for portions of the year during which we have 6 useable starters (or 5 starters plus Whitlock/opener) as a way to manage the pitchers workload. The pitching question — league wide — is #1 for me going into this year. How much does a dramatically truncated year play into inning limits, rest, etc. ERod is an extreme example, but I think too about young pitchers who might have been ramping up to mid-100 innings in the minors last year to prep for a full season. So a guy like Houck... I assume there will be extra care to limit his work but how much and in what form? I’ll be interested to see if pitch counts drop appreciably, too, to keep guys fresh and healthy.
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Post by ramireja on Feb 18, 2021 13:46:22 GMT -5
This is more 26-man roster discussion, but...the more I think I about the 2020 shortened season implications on this year, the more our acquisitions make sense. I'm working under the assumption that it will be more difficult for starting pitchers to burden a full 162 game season load than it will position players. Adding on that ERod and Sale are returning from illness/injury and this situation becomes super volatile. Assuming that to be true, it would be beneficial to operate with a 3-man bench for as much of the season as possible to carry 14 pitchers and reduce the pitching load. Kiké and Marwin allow for that to happen. Adding to this, having some bulk relievers/multi-inning guys will be useful and Andriese and Whitlock seem to fit that role. It will be interesting to see if we employ a 6-man rotation for portions of the year during which we have 6 useable starters (or 5 starters plus Whitlock/opener) as a way to manage the pitchers workload. The pitching question — league wide — is #1 for me going into this year. How much does a dramatically truncated year play into inning limits, rest, etc. ERod is an extreme example, but I think too about young pitchers who might have been ramping up to mid-100 innings in the minors last year to prep for a full season. So a guy like Houck... I assume there will be extra care to limit his work but how much and in what form? I’ll be interested to see if pitch counts drop appreciably, too, to keep guys fresh and healthy. And yet each game will still include 9 innings so if starters have lighter loads, the burden would increase for relievers. If so, it seems like a good year to have strong MLB-ready bullpen depth in the high minors and on the 40-man roster. Will we see lots of DL trips (either for real injuries or phantom trips for rest) as a way of working in the likes of Brewer, Walden, Valdez, and Bazardo in and out of the bullpen? The position player versatility on the 26-man roster and our bullpen depth in general seem to be set up pretty well for this.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 18, 2021 15:31:57 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 18, 2021 15:43:44 GMT -5
Nice minor league numbers, good K/BB ratio. Does this mean that they're not as likely to go after Jeffress/Roe/Heller?
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Post by ramireja on Feb 18, 2021 16:03:30 GMT -5
Pretty interesting given that they need 40-man spots for Marwin Gonzalez and eventually Plawecki when he returns from the COVID list (which made room for Roberto Hernandez).
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,984
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Post by jimoh on Feb 18, 2021 16:12:50 GMT -5
Side-armer (or "Low three-quarters")
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